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-   -   Movie Superheroes: What are Marvel doing right that DC aren't? (http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1655176)

jackbell 24-04-2012 01:31

Movie Superheroes: What are Marvel doing right that DC aren't?
 
News of a Thor 2, Avengers 2, Iron Man 3 plus new Spider-Man, X-Men, Captain America ...

DC just Superman, after the Green Lantern failure and Wonder Woman not even making it to the screen ...

What are Marvel doing right? Better characters? Stronger fanbase?

jakeyv37 24-04-2012 08:57

I think they're stronger, better characters with a human quality. not many non comic book fans would of known who Green Lantern is in my own opinion. but most of all the characters are all likeable and the majority of actors to have played Marvel superheroes have been very good.

bob187 24-04-2012 09:11

I think you're forgetting one of DC's other characters that have been in a few films recently...

The Fozzmeister 24-04-2012 11:03

Aside from Batman, DC haven't had a good showing recently.

I don't think it's anything to do with the comic characters themselves, I think it's more to do with the stories and casting.

Ryan Reynolds was so miscast as Hal Jordan that I couldn't take him seriously. It seems that Marvel are actually taking their time to find the right person for the part, rather than picking a big star. That's what I think the Batman films have got right.

Christian Bale was well known, but he wasn't a megastar when he was cast as Batman, and I don't think many studios would have put their money on Robert Downey Jr when he was cast as Iron Man. Chris Hemsworth was an aussie soap actor with a bit part in Star Trek when he was cast, and Chris Evans was probably most well known as the human torch. I just think the casting is better, and the stories for each film have been better.

Quickblood 24-04-2012 14:27

I don't know why DC characters don't do well on the big screen but I'll say this, they're animation is just the best. Marvel aren't even close, which is a real shame I wish they were both doing better in both areas.

I'll be very surprised if the Avengers isn't my favourite movie this year. Marvel always seem to capture that comic book magic just right, much as I loved the Batman ones they just didn't have that fantastical feel for me.
That being said DC's animated series (JLU, Young Justice) are superb and their straight to DVD releases are amazing. Batman: Under the Red Hood was one of the best things I saw in 2010 and my favourite Batman movie.With animation of that quality I'm not too bothered if they don't make live action movies.

not_the_doctor 24-04-2012 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister (Post 57836819)
I don't think it's anything to do with the comic characters themselves, I think it's more to do with the stories and casting.

Absolutely. Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor had been B-list heroes at best for many years, before becoming more successful on the big screen. That said, it's not like either Thor or Captain America did incredibly well in their solo outings. Captain America made less money than Superman Returns. Even the Wolverine and the recent X-Men movies didn't do terrible well, and let's not forget that Hulk has now been rebooted twice.

What Marvel are doing well is that they're getting their characters out there. Some of them fail, but people remember the successes of Spidey, Iron Man, etc, and it helps the overall Marvel brand. DC are pussy-footing around and trying to make everything "more Batman", and they're losing ground quickly.

jackbell 24-04-2012 19:45

Seems to me DC are trepidatious when it comes to anything that isn't Batman and Superman and when GL flopped it made them more so.

For example: I could easily imagine a Sub-Mariner movie from Marvel Studios but not an Aquaman film from DC.

Ant-Man - yes. Atom - no.

Wulfster 24-04-2012 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickblood (Post 57839767)
I don't know why DC characters don't do well on the big screen but I'll say this, they're animation is just the best. Marvel aren't even close, which is a real shame I wish they were both doing better in both areas.

I'll be very surprised if the Avengers isn't my favourite movie this year. Marvel always seem to capture that comic book magic just right, much as I loved the Batman ones they just didn't have that fantastical feel for me.
That being said DC's animated series (JLU, Young Justice) are superb and their straight to DVD releases are amazing. Batman: Under the Red Hood was one of the best things I saw in 2010 and my favourite Batman movie.With animation of that quality I'm not too bothered if they don't make live action movies.

I've got to agree with you there Quickblood.
The Red Hood movie was incredible and quite daring.
Mask of the Phantasm (the first Batman Animated series film) was also a highlight.
I can also recommend Justice League:Doom.

As for DC live action movies, apart from Nolan's Batman, they just need to get the balance between "grit", realism, and fun right.

Hopefully Man of Steel will hit the spot...

Wulfster 24-04-2012 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfster (Post 57846641)
I've got to agree with you there Quickblood.
The Red Hood movie was incredible and quite daring.
Mask of the Phantasm (the first Batman Animated series film) was also a highlight.
I can also recommend Justice League:Doom.

As for DC live action movies, apart from Nolan's Batman, they just need to get the balance between "grit", realism, and fun right.

Hopefully Man of Steel will hit the spot...

That's supposed to be "Justice League Doom".
Damn Smilies!!

Quickblood 24-04-2012 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfster (Post 57846678)
That's supposed to be "Justice League Doom".
Damn Smilies!!

Yeah it was good but not quite as great as the comic. I didn't like some of the changes they made & preferred not only Ra's as the villain but also the comics ending, I wanted a vote. I did like what Batman said about his plan to stop himself, that was very cool.:D

I also really liked Batman: Year One & Superman/Batman: Public Enemies that being said not all their efforts are gold, I kinda hated All-Star Superman.

jackbell 25-04-2012 00:46

Jostice League: D:D:Dm - lol....

not_the_doctor 25-04-2012 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfster (Post 57846641)
The Red Hood movie was incredible and quite daring.
Mask of the Phantasm (the first Batman Animated series film) was also a highlight.
I can also recommend Justice League:Doom.

A few of them have been pretty good, but I wish they would create some original stories, rather than these watered down versions of stories we already know. I think the Batman: The Brave And The Bold series has been some of the best DC animation in a long time. The new CG Green Lantern show is also pretty decent.

Quote:

As for DC live action movies, apart from Nolan's Batman, they just need to get the balance between "grit", realism, and fun right.

Hopefully Man of Steel will hit the spot...
Snyder's track record doesn't instill much confidence.

The Fozzmeister 25-04-2012 10:53

Talking of animation, I haven't seen many DC animated films but Superman/Doomsday was brilliant. At that point I hadn't read the comic so it was all new to me.

Marvel aren't bad at animation, Dr Strange and Planet Hulk were pretty good, and the Ultimates films (even though I've only seen the first one) are pretty good.

Wulfster 25-04-2012 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_the_doctor (Post 57852608)
A few of them have been pretty good, but I wish they would create some original stories, rather than these watered down versions of stories we already know. I think the Batman: The Brave And The Bold series has been some of the best DC animation in a long time. The new CG Green Lantern show is also pretty decent.

Snyder's track record doesn't instill much confidence.

I dunno...
I'm hoping we'll get 300 + Dawn of the Dead (which I both loved) based Snyder stuff, as oppose to Sucker-Punch Snyder (which I absolutely hated..).

Verence 25-04-2012 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_the_doctor (Post 57852608)
I think the Batman: The Brave And The Bold series has been some of the best DC animation in a long time.

That's rather good and I also enjoy Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes

That said I wouldn't mind seeing a Flash film but only if he was up against The Rogues. However that might have one of the same problem as the Green Lantern in that The Flash (whichever version) doesn't remotely as much name recognition in the wider world as Bats and Supes do.

Residents Fan 25-04-2012 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfster (Post 57846641)
I've got to agree with you there Quickblood.
The Red Hood movie was incredible and quite daring.
Mask of the Phantasm (the first Batman Animated series film) was also a highlight.
I can also recommend Justice League:Doom.

As for DC live action movies, apart from Nolan's Batman, they just need to get the balance between "grit", realism, and fun right.

Hopefully Man of Steel will hit the spot...


Which raises the question of why DC/WB don't get some
of the people working on the animation to do the live-action
ones as well.

Also, Marvel can farm their characters out to several
studios: Spiderman (Columbia), X-Men (Fox),
Paramont (the various Avengers heroes). DC are
stuck with WB.

The Fozzmeister 26-04-2012 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_the_doctor (Post 57840561)
Absolutely. Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor had been B-list heroes at best for many years, before becoming more successful on the big screen.

I wouldn't say Captain America and Iron Man were B-List characters, they were the leaders of the two sides of Civil War after all, but I wouldn't consider them the posterboys for Marvel either. Not in the same way as Spiderman or the X Men that's for sure.

Having said that, I think the success of Iron Man/Cap/Thor/Hulk is the fact they are all part of a single vision and are made with large input by Marvel themselves. Most of the other adaptations have, in my eyes, been quite poor too, barring the odd 1 or 2.

jrio 26-04-2012 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Residents Fan (Post 57860017)
Which raises the question of why DC/WB don't get some
of the people working on the animation to do the live-action
ones as well.


Also, Marvel can farm their characters out to several
studios: Spiderman (Columbia), X-Men (Fox),
Paramont (the various Avengers heroes). DC are
stuck with WB.

Very different animals. The animated stories are adaptions of successful comic book stories limited to 75 minutes. The transition from comic to animated feature is far smaller in scope and simpler to achieve. One crucial factor is movies often have many vested interests wanting to stick their oar in and make their influence apparent. In contrast, the animated team seems a very cohesive and harmonious unit.with a consistent track record.

Even in animation, DC's success is largely limited to Superman and Batman, and they take few risks outside of them. They're too conservative. With live action they need to be bolder and more imaginative.

GARETH197901 26-04-2012 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Residents Fan (Post 57860017)
Which raises the question of why DC/WB don't get some
of the people working on the animation to do the live-action
ones as well.

Also, Marvel can farm their characters out to several
studios: Spiderman (Columbia), X-Men (Fox),
Paramont (the various Avengers heroes). DC are
stuck with WB.


In an ideal world i suspect that Marvel Studios would like to have all their characters back in the one stable,so that crossovers could happen more easily

not_the_doctor 27-04-2012 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fozzmeister (Post 57884813)
I wouldn't say Captain America and Iron Man were B-List characters, they were the leaders of the two sides of Civil War after all

In the Marvel universe itself Captain America and Iron Man are obviously A-listers, but in reality, neither of them had really had a successful solo title for decades. In terms of commercial success, they were about on par with Aquaman, and arguably below the likes of Green Lantern and The Flash. Even the Avengers, Marvel's supposed answer to the JLA, were much less successful than the X-Men and often the Fantastic Four. It really is a remarkable turnaround Marvel have managed on the back of these big screen outings, particularly with Iron Man. By that same token, it's not at all impossible for DC to do something similar with their lesser known heroes like GL, Flash, Aquaman, etc.

Quote:

Having said that, I think the success of Iron Man/Cap/Thor/Hulk is the fact they are all part of a single vision and are made with large input by Marvel themselves.
I don't know that these movies could be said to be evidence of a consistent track success story. Hulk has failed in two solo outings, but might work better as part of the Avengers team. Captain America and Thor both made less money than Superman Returns at the US box office, despite the help of added 3D ticket prices and 5 years worth of general ticket inflation.

Quote:

Most of the other adaptations have, in my eyes, been quite poor too, barring the odd 1 or 2.
To be honest, I found both Thor and Captain America a bit dull. The first Iron Man was very good. The second was a bit iffy. Wolverine just plain sucked. X3 was a complete mess.For me, X-Men: First Class was the best Marvel movie in a while.

Jonwo 27-04-2012 01:32

DC Animated series is superior compared to Marvel although Marvel did okay in the 90s with X-Men and Spider-Man, their recent stuff hasnt been as good whereas DC have had series like Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Young Justice and the CGI Green Lantern series and their DTV films are good as well.

It does annoy me that there still hasn't been a Flash or a Wonder Woman film but I hope the success of The Avengers will lead to WB/DC to pursue this as they can't just rely on Batman and Superman forever.

Big Boy Barry 27-04-2012 07:27

With Superman movies, one major blunder has/is being made. They are constantly trying to make a "dark" Superman movie. It doesn't work. It won't work. Superman has to be an idealistic hero, not some introspective, emo bore with cinematography so dark I can barely see what is taking place on screen.

The Fozzmeister 27-04-2012 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by not_the_doctor (Post 57888042)
In the Marvel universe itself Captain America and Iron Man are obviously A-listers, but in reality, neither of them had really had a successful solo title for decades.

ah, get ya. I thought you meant they were B-listers in the comics. Yeah, definitely agree with you on that one.

Quote:

I don't know that these movies could be said to be evidence of a consistent track success story. Hulk has failed in two solo outings, but might work better as part of the Avengers team. Captain America and Thor both made less money than Superman Returns at the US box office, despite the help of added 3D ticket prices and 5 years worth of general ticket inflation.
I'm not saying that they were mega-successful, but I enjoyed them more than the previous films, mostly because they were all building to something.

Quote:

To be honest, I found both Thor and Captain America a bit dull. The first Iron Man was very good. The second was a bit iffy. Wolverine just plain sucked. X3 was a complete mess.For me, X-Men: First Class was the best Marvel movie in a while.
agreed about Thor, it wasn't my favourite Marvel movie, but I still enjoyed the development of Thor and Loki. I thought Wolverine, X3, Spiderman 2&3 both FF movies and 2003 Hulk were all really poor. I haven't seen First Class but I've heard good things about it.

big dan 27-04-2012 12:11

In my opinion, there's something about the majority of the Marvel-based films that just capture the whole superhero 'theme' so well. I even really enjoyed Spiderman 3, which is often panned, as I really felt it still retained that quality, imo even more so than the second installment. Never really connected with the Hulk or X-Men films though as they were too based in some form of science-fiction thriller format for me to really enjoy them as superhero films. X-Men in particular I just felt tried too hard to create a sort of 'epic' futuristic war storyline.

I love Nolan's Batman films, however for me I don't see them as 'superhero movies' either. In that context I think Burton's films pull that off far better, however as dark, character-based thrillers in their own right Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are brilliant. What needs to be remembered with the next Superman film though is that he is not Batman - in fact he is probably one of the easiest characters to base a good, traditional hero movie around.

dadioflex 27-04-2012 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickblood (Post 57839767)
That being said DC's animated series (JLU, Young Justice) are superb and their straight to DVD releases are amazing. Batman: Under the Red Hood was one of the best things I saw in 2010 and my favourite Batman movie.With animation of that quality I'm not too bothered if they don't make live action movies.

JLU was great. Haven't seen Young Justice, but I'm acquiring the new GL cartoon from parts unknown and really like it.

There are a BUNCH of Marvel cartoons on the go right now or recently if you include those Japanese ones. You could probably have an entire Superhero cartoon channel on Sky if you wanted.

My favourite Superhero cartoon is probably the 90s X-Men one, or maybe Batman TAS from around the same time.


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