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-   -   WHAT has happened to Rogue (X-Men)? (http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1781535)

HoveringKestrel 09-01-2013 00:51

WHAT has happened to Rogue (X-Men)?
 
In the mid-90s she was one of the most powerful, formidable mutants out there! (The X-Men 90s cartoon loved her).....so why is she such a forgotten, depowered little lettuce nowadays?

StratusSphere 09-01-2013 07:35

People have moved in to replace her role (Wolverine's girl sidekick; the tough girl) as she's aged, and the movie universe did her no favours either.

The thing with too many characters in mainstream is that preference will be given to ones that are young, fresh, new, popular, and classic characters who are known for a thing (Cyclops - leader, Storm - black, assertive, Wolverine - anti-leader) who are often portrayed as clearly older; able to lead the younger ones. Rogue hasnt been portrayed as an experienced older member for a while so she's been shafted. Perhaps if Ultimate gains more popularity we'll see this transfer to her in the main universe.

mred2000 09-01-2013 08:29

Have either of you read X-Men Legacy before the relaunch? Or X-treme X-Men in the 00's? Rogue was pretty much the lead character for a good long while in both, up until very recently in Legacy with a couple of practically solo stories.

Her powers have changed, sure, but they've been pushing her as a character maturing and coming to grips with leading teams and juggling relationships.

And what Jubilee (Wolverine's sidekick who hasn't been his sidekick since the 90's) has to do with this I have no idea... Rogue was never Wolverine's sidekick, unless you're meaning Shadowcat but, again, she's grown up and runs the school in one comic while Rogue led a team in another...

starsailor 09-01-2013 09:12

She's also been messed around in the on/off relationship with Gambit a lot.

mred2000 09-01-2013 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsailor (Post 63454323)
She's also been messed around in the on/off relationship with Gambit a lot.

Even that's old news, she's been back with Magneto recently.

JAS84 09-01-2013 22:21

Magneto? Isn't he a villain? But yeah, the thing about Rogue's depowering is true, she lost the abilities she absorbed from Ms Marvel, namely flight and super strength.

StratusSphere 10-01-2013 08:50

That is true, she was lead in X-Treme and field leader before that for a while, I had forgotten about that.

I still think film!Rogue did her no favours though as a character...there wasnt much development there for a character with so much potential.

I'm not up to speed with Legacy, apart from reading plot overviews, so what's with Magneto? Did he get de-aged again or are they doing the whole generation gap thing properly?

I think I myself was getting confused with Rogue from the films when I said about Wolverine's sidekick, it must have been a tie-in comic I was remembering. Jubilee was one that came to mind even though I guess she's quite a random example, Shadowcat would be the obvious and iconic one.

On that point though, Kitty has always come across to me to be portrayed as older than Rogue, though they should be around the same age, no? I guess it depends on the writer like with portrayals of Storm...

JAS84 10-01-2013 13:03

People more familiar with the 90s cartoon would think of Jubilee as Wolverine's sidekick rather than Shadowcat, who wasn't a regular character there. So it's not that random.

mred2000 10-01-2013 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAS84 (Post 63469586)
Magneto? Isn't he a villain? But yeah, the thing about Rogue's depowering is true, she lost the abilities she absorbed from Ms Marvel, namely flight and super strength.

But she still had her mutant ability which she now has control over.

Magneto has been a decidedly grey character since he was the leader of the New Mutants. Admittedly he still has done villainous stuff, some big stuff in the 90's, but he's been with the X-Men pretty much since the move to Utopia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusSphere (Post 63475885)
That is true, she was lead in X-Treme and field leader before that for a while, I had forgotten about that.

I still think film!Rogue did her no favours though as a character...there wasnt much development there for a character with so much potential.

I'm not up to speed with Legacy, apart from reading plot overviews, so what's with Magneto? Did he get de-aged again or are they doing the whole generation gap thing properly?

On that point though, Kitty has always come across to me to be portrayed as older than Rogue, though they should be around the same age, no? I guess it depends on the writer like with portrayals of Storm...

Magneto is old... again... that's if the young one was ever actually him. I missed the whole de-aging thing. Weirdest one is how old Emma Frost should be if you go back to how she was in Claremont's run in the 80's and then as teacher of Generation X...

I'm sure Rogue is supposedly older than Kitty but I reckon it must only be 3-5 years.

David_Robinson2 12-01-2013 00:21

shes a lead character in Uncanny Avengers,and for a last couples of years was the main focus of x-men legacy!

HoveringKestrel 25-01-2013 00:16

But I can;t help but think Rogue used to be a powerhouse....and now she's just a bit of a....touch-me, feel-me, drive me crazy kinda girl.

mred2000 25-01-2013 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoveringKestrel (Post 63839763)
But I can;t help but think Rogue used to be a powerhouse....and now she's just a bit of a....touch-me, feel-me, drive me crazy kinda girl.

So you've disregarded X-Men Legacy #275 where she absorbed a load of powers, turned into a powerhouse and stopped a prison riot almost single-handedly, then?

She has matured as a character. Permed hair and shouting "Take that y'all!" was so 90's! :D

mr muggles 25-01-2013 14:26

Havent read comics for a good decade, but from my era (1981-1990), she was never a sidekick to Wolverine, if anything, she started off under the guidance of Storm, when she joined X men. They had a really gr8 relationship which was firmed out by some strong stories together. I dont know how popular a comic character she is anymore, but I remeber reading a reputable comic guide around 84/85, and she came fourth in popularity, beating many big/traditional comic characters from both Marvel/DC.I think it was difficult for younger readers (like myself at that time) to get the measure of her age, as her tough guy persona was a cover up for her vulnerability, and she was often drawn to look slightly older than she was, plus her gr8 individual black/green wardrobe (!), whereas poor Kitty had to earn her individual 'look'!

brumilad 25-01-2013 20:01

I think in Legacy she grew as a character hugely.

I mean she started out a scared, sorry for herself whiney brat and any time she wasn't kicking ass she was a sorry for herself whiney brat... albeit in a likable way.... but most of her time was spent whining, feeling sorry for herself, throwing tantrums and running away.

I think the emphasis has shifted away from her slightly recently (with Storm and Psylocke seeming to be the writers current faves) but for a period except for Emma Frost she was the only female character who wasn't shoved to the sidelines. Up to a few months ago Storm was practically a non-entity in the books and had been for years.

kimotag 25-01-2013 20:40

Even before the loss of her Ms Marvel powers, they slowly depowered her. Way back in her first Avenger's Annual appearance she could drain Thor and several other avengers, later on she could only half-drain Juggernaut. In more recent times she couldn't even fully drain Ares!

StratusSphere 26-01-2013 01:39

Thats true about Psylocke, she really varies as to how popular and in focus she is depending on the writer!

Storm, Storm, Storm...just look at how differently they portray her in all the TV versions...is she old? young? a thief? a goddess? a queen? a normal young woman? She's a really interesting character but her continuity and power level seems to shift dramatically in her different incarnations...

mr muggles 27-01-2013 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by brumilad (Post 63856336)
I think in Legacy she grew as a character hugely.

I mean she started out a scared, sorry for herself whiney brat and any time she wasn't kicking ass she was a sorry for herself whiney brat... albeit in a likable way.... but most of her time was spent whining, feeling sorry for herself, throwing tantrums and running away.

I think the emphasis has shifted away from her slightly recently (with Storm and Psylocke seeming to be the writers current faves) but for a period except for Emma Frost she was the only female character who wasn't shoved to the sidelines. Up to a few months ago Storm was practically a non-entity in the books and had been for years.

Rogue didnt start out as a scared & whiney brat (aside from the initial issue of her turning up on the X-men door step, which was understandable. She was always cool as a cucumber and dependable/resourceful in a fight even in the early days- which accounts for her early popularity. Rachel Summers on the other hand... And for pure brattishness=Jubilee.

mr muggles 27-01-2013 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimotag (Post 63857708)
Even before the loss of her Ms Marvel powers, they slowly depowered her. Way back in her first Avenger's Annual appearance she could drain Thor and several other avengers, later on she could only half-drain Juggernaut. In more recent times she couldn't even fully drain Ares!

Still have fond memories of that Avengers annual, especially the Mike Golden artwork. And Rogue was portrayed as an almost gleeful bitch revelling in her antics! Gr8 stuff!

silentNate 27-01-2013 00:26

Wow! A thread about both Kitty & Rogue :) :o

Both were strong female characters... not liked what they've done with either over the last five years but at least the whole Rogue thing is believable :o :(

HoveringKestrel 27-01-2013 00:32

I WISH the Movies had done her more favours, she has the potential to be a Pop-Culture Icon....and yet the movies chose to make her a bit of a weak ferret who couldn't stand up in a fight. Ugh.

silentNate 27-01-2013 00:56

Sookie Stackhouse as Rogue... please try to get over your yourself... perfect casting in terms of power and vulnerability... I agree that Meghan Black looks more like her but Ellen Page as Kitty Pryde was ideal casting from a Jewish point of view :p

HoveringKestrel 27-01-2013 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentNate (Post 63888767)
Sookie Stackhouse as Rogue... please try to get over your yourself... perfect casting in terms of power and vulnerability... I agree that Meghan Black looks more like her but Ellen Page as Kitty Pryde was ideal casting from a Jewish point of view :p

No no no, sorry, I didn't mean casting, Anna Paquin is excellent, I just meant the character development, fair enough vunerable in X1, then starts using her powers in X2, but then in X3.....WTF?!?! DESTROYED the Rogue character.

JCR 27-01-2013 04:37

Bryan Singer tweeted tonight that Anna Paquin (and Shawn Ashmore & Ellen Page) are all in X-Men Days of Future Past, so I guess she gets another shot. The Last Stand just isn't a good movie full stop.

silentNate 27-01-2013 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCR (Post 63889693)
Bryan Singer tweeted tonight that Anna Paquin (and Shawn Ashmore & Ellen Page) are all in X-Men Days of Future Past, so I guess she gets another shot. The Last Stand just isn't a good movie full stop.

Sentinels? :eek: Bring it on!! :)

I'll pass on Cable and the X-Man character (Cyclops and Jean Grey's son iirc :o ) :(

brumilad 27-01-2013 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoveringKestrel (Post 63888911)
No no no, sorry, I didn't mean casting, Anna Paquin is excellent, I just meant the character development, fair enough vunerable in X1, then starts using her powers in X2, but then in X3.....WTF?!?! DESTROYED the Rogue character.

I don't think it did.

It allowed them to explore a strong theme that the comics would find it harder to go down with one of their major characters (due to their continuing nature).

The point of the cure story (which I think got lost on many because the film was so convoluted with the Phoenix stuff aswell) was there was two sides to it. It was and wasn't both right and wrong, good or bad, there were two sides. That it would take away the problem for so many but at the same time comes with all these ethical and moral questions and the potential for it being abused and for people to play god. It was paralleling the very real issue of genetic engineering and it applications. And Rogue was the perfect main character to explore this because she was the outcast within the outcast, the mutant who's powers crippled her. And I think if she hadn't of taken the cure then they would have totally undermined the theme they were exploring.

I thought from a thematic and character point of view the Rogue stuff was one of the strongest parts of The Last Stand and really needed more emphasis.

I do actually hope in the next film they keep her depowered because that doesn't mean she has to be a weaker character. Quite the opposite in fact. Both Storm and Dani Moonstar were/are incredibly strong depowered characters who still remained part of the team in the comics. The film can do a similar thing with Rogue.


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