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-   -   If Tom Baker were to have quit DW sooner than he did... (http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1799376)

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 20:15

If Tom Baker were to have quit DW sooner than he did...
 
...which story (apart from "Logopolis", of course) would have been an ideal exit for him?

After all, "Shada" (or rather, what exists of it) is not hugely popular with fans on this board, and so, had it been completed and then broadcast, it would perhaps have been more of a disappointing exit for a Doctor, than "Planet Of The Spiders" (where Jon Pertwee exited) before it.

If not "Shada", what about "The Armageddon Factor"?

Had Baker quit a series earlier (and thus not been a Time Lord for too long, compared to the others), one thing would not change - Peter Davison doing three series. It is unlikely he would have done four in the end, given the advice he received from Patrick Troughton, and also his own feelings about being typecast, etc.

Tom Tit 17-02-2013 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam_fransella (Post 64311574)
Had Baker quit a series earlier (and thus not been a Time Lord for too long, compared to the others), one thing would not change - Peter Davison doing three series. It is unlikely he would have done four in the end, given the advice he received from Patrick Troughton, and also his own feelings about being typecast, etc.


It's unlikely he would even have been cast, seeing as it was JNT who cast him, and he did not take over until Baker's final year.

Tom Baker didn't stay too long. That's just an easy piece of received wisdom. His final season suffered because the people in charge of the show didn't want him and were unprofessional enough to work against him rather than with him. Baker was also ill during that season, so you could maybe argue that he stayed too long for his own health.

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 20:36

Either way, if Baker had left DW before the 1980-81 season (which saw the introduction of a new opening titles sequence and new costume for The Doctor), which season closer (or any story from before 1980, for that matter) would YOU have him regenerate at the end of?

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 21:05

The Tom Baker era should have been '1975-80' instead of '1974-81' - end of.

While the Peter Davison era should have been '1981-84', and that of Colin Baker should have been '1985-89'. No McCoy!

bp2 17-02-2013 21:33

What is wrong with McCoy? I thought he was a good doctor but he was let down badly by the quality of the scripts especially in season 24. I think Big Finish have shown that he is a good doctor and I have enjoyed listening to the 7th doctor audios a lot, I also enjoyed watching McCoy in the Hobbit. Having said that I also enjoy the 6th doctor as well and Colin shouldn't have been sacked.

Westy2 17-02-2013 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp2 (Post 64314163)
What is wrong with McCoy? I thought he was a good doctor but he was let down badly by the quality of the scripts especially in season 24. I think Big Finish have shown that he is a good doctor and I have enjoyed listening to the 7th doctor audios a lot, I also enjoyed watching McCoy in the Hobbit. Having said that I also enjoy the 6th doctor as well and Colin shouldn't have been sacked.

Only problem with McCoy, in my opinion, is that he couldn't do convincing anger.

'Battlefield', where he comes between the 2 knights, for instance.

AdelaideGirl 17-02-2013 21:50

Really I always found his anger convincing - a little repressed and with a nice touch of disappointed.


If Tom were to be written out earlier I would have had him leave at the same time as Lalla or just before E space and spare him Adric.

Glenn A 17-02-2013 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp2 (Post 64314163)
What is wrong with McCoy? I thought he was a good doctor but he was let down badly by the quality of the scripts especially in season 24. I think Big Finish have shown that he is a good doctor and I have enjoyed listening to the 7th doctor audios a lot, I also enjoyed watching McCoy in the Hobbit. Having said that I also enjoy the 6th doctor as well and Colin shouldn't have been sacked.

Too right, he could have been a great Doctor. I think the BBC are the biggest culprit in this, you had a controller who hated a well loved show and wanted to destroy it. Would the BBC have treated that awful rubbish Neighbours so badly? Ironically this lives out its life almost ignored on Channel 5, yet the show Grade hated so much is doing really well.

tiggerpooh 17-02-2013 22:16

I would have had Tom leave at the end of the Horns of Nimon and regenerate. It was the fifth and final story in Doctor Who's 17th season. The last episode aired on 12th January 1980.

Then have Peter come into it properly, during the late Summer of 1981. That would give Doctor Who almost one and a half years rest. The production team would have had longer time to come up with new stories for the Fifth incarnation. Not the ten months they actually had.

As adam_fransella said, ''While the Peter Davison era should have been '1981-84', and that of Colin Baker should have been '1985-89".

Yes, and have Sylvester McCoy come in, in 1990 and have the Paul McGann movie as normal in 1996, with McCoy changing to McGann. Then the rest people know.

Westy2 17-02-2013 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn A (Post 64315074)
Too right, he could have been a great Doctor. I think the BBC are the biggest culprit in this, you had a controller who hated a well loved show and wanted to destroy it. Would the BBC have treated that awful rubbish Neighbours so badly? Ironically this lives out its life almost ignored on Channel 5, yet the show Grade hated so much is doing really well.

Wasn't there rumours he had personal issues with Colin Baker?

DiscoP 17-02-2013 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn A (Post 64315074)
Too right, he could have been a great Doctor. I think the BBC are the biggest culprit in this, you had a controller who hated a well loved show and wanted to destroy it. Would the BBC have treated that awful rubbish Neighbours so badly? Ironically this lives out its life almost ignored on Channel 5, yet the show Grade hated so much is doing really well.

Ahem, after struggling for a few years Neighbours is doing really well at the moment and going through something of a mini renaissance and the only reason that it's slumming it on C5 instead of BBC 1 is because the Beeb didn't want to pay the big bucks for it.

Doctor Who was tired and old and needed axing in 1989, otherwise we wouldn't have the awesomeness of the revived series :)

gingerfreak 17-02-2013 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerpooh (Post 64315339)
Then have Peter come into it properly, during the late Summer of 1981. That would give Doctor Who almost one and a half years rest. The production team would have had longer time to come up with new stories for the Fifth incarnation. Not the ten months they actually had.

I don't think his first series suffered. I liked it.

gingerfreak 17-02-2013 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam_fransella (Post 64313357)
The Tom Baker era should have been '1975-80' instead of '1974-81' - end of.

While the Peter Davison era should have been '1981-84', and that of Colin Baker should have been '1985-89'. No McCoy!

Ouch, you'd have been happy to lose Tom's first series?

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerfreak (Post 64315661)
Ouch, you'd have been happy to lose Tom's first series?

No, his first series would simply begin a week later than it did - 4th January 1975, instead of 28th December 1974.

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerpooh (Post 64315339)
Yes, and have Sylvester McCoy come in, in 1990 and have the Paul McGann movie as normal in 1996, with McCoy changing to McGann. Then the rest people know.

No, lose McCoy altogether - from 1990-93...Paul McGann, in proper old-fashioned stories.

Then from 1993-2003, DW would take a rest.

adam_fransella 17-02-2013 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerpooh (Post 64315339)
I would have had Tom leave at the end of the Horns of Nimon and regenerate. It was the fifth and final story in Doctor Who's 17th season. The last episode aired on 12th January.

But that story was not supposed to close Season 17 - it simply did so, after "Shada" was abandoned.

meglosmurmurs 17-02-2013 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoP (Post 64315597)
Ahem, after struggling for a few years Neighbours is doing really well at the moment and going through something of a mini renaissance and the only reason that it's slumming it on C5 instead of BBC 1 is because the Beeb didn't want to pay the big bucks for it.

Doctor Who was tired and old and needed axing in 1989, otherwise we wouldn't have the awesomeness of the revived series :)

McCoy's era at the time of the show's cancellation was getting better and better, moving away from camp pantomime to the dark gothic style that many Dr Who fans love. Some of the stories are considered some of the best in the history of the show.

Glenn A 17-02-2013 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiscoP (Post 64315597)
Ahem, after struggling for a few years Neighbours is doing really well at the moment and going through something of a mini renaissance and the only reason that it's slumming it on C5 instead of BBC 1 is because the Beeb didn't want to pay the big bucks for it.

Doctor Who was tired and old and needed axing in 1989, otherwise we wouldn't have the awesomeness of the revived series :)

Yeah 1.7 million viewers is really good and also I could imagine the uproar if the BBC decided to pay 40 million a year to renew the rights on Neighbours after losing the FA Cup.
The only reason Doctor Who went downhill was Michael Grade hated it and wouldn't commit to the show, which was a huge export earner. Yet he was quite happy to waste money on imported crap that really belonged on Tyne Tees in the afternoon and where people saw through it after a few years.

tiggerpooh 17-02-2013 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerfreak (Post 64315607)
I don't think his first series suffered. I liked it.

The only good story in Peter Davison's first series was Earthshock. A lot of people on DS, have mentioned that in previous years. The scripting seemed quite strong, and the acting was very good.

I really like the bit in the Tardis when the Cyberman shoots the console. The Doctor has got Adric's badge and as it's made of gold, he uses it on the Cyberman's chest to kill it. Then he uses the cyberman's gun to finish him off.

I can't seem to find the scene on YouTube, but another scene that is similar, but with Colin's Doctor that I like is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXN0ggASRv8

It's from Attack of the Cybermen, with Colin's Doctor killing the Cyber Controller. Scroll to 0.58 secs and it gets better!

Tom Tit 17-02-2013 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam_fransella (Post 64313357)
The Tom Baker era should have been '1975-80' instead of '1974-81' - end of.

While the Peter Davison era should have been '1981-84', and that of Colin Baker should have been '1985-89'. No McCoy!


Okay, well you've resolved that issue then. The thread may as well be closed. If you were already 100% certain of all this then why ask our opinions? Surely not just for the opportunity to hector us with your opinions? :rolleyes:

tiggerpooh 17-02-2013 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam_fransella (Post 64316647)
No, lose McCoy altogether - from 1990-93...Paul McGann, in proper old-fashioned stories.

Then from 1993-2003, DW would take a rest.

Paul McGann wouldn't have done Doctor Who in 1990. It was too early and his interest in doing Doctor Who wasn't until early 1995 when he auditioned for the role in the movie.

Check out the Movie DVD. Not the original DVD release, but the 2010 special edition. His audition is on there as an extra. You can buy the DVD on amazon as part of the Revisitations 1 Box Set:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-R...1145011&sr=1-3

DiscoP 17-02-2013 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westy2 (Post 64315536)
Wasn't there rumours he had personal issues with Colin Baker?

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

"There's a history between Michael Grade and Colin. (Actress) Liza Goddard was Colin's wife. And she was Michael Grade's best friend. The divorce was acrimonious and she moved into Michael Grade's house while she was getting over the divorce. And I'll say no more. Michael Grade was determined. He did not want Colin working for the BBC."

tiggerpooh 17-02-2013 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Tit (Post 64317321)
Okay, well you've resolved that issue then. The thread may as well be closed. If you were already 100% certain of all this then why ask our opinions? Surely not just for the opportunity to hector us with your opinions? :rolleyes:

I'm so glad this thread was started. It gave me a chance to air my opinions. :D

Tom Tit 17-02-2013 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerpooh (Post 64317421)
I'm so glad this thread was started. It gave me a chance to air my opinions. :D


Me too. But Adam has now told me I was wrong. End of. so I'll have to reconsider :( The guy sure knows how to debate! If only he could alter the whole of history to make it better, we could have a perfect world.


Quote:

Paul McGann wouldn't have done Doctor Who in 1990. It was too early and his interest in doing Doctor Who wasn't until early 1995 when he auditioned for the role in the movie.
Not in Adam's new Utopia. Everything would be exactly as is convenient for him.

DiscoP 17-02-2013 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn A (Post 64316753)
Yeah 1.7 million viewers is really good and also I could imagine the uproar if the BBC decided to pay 40 million a year to renew the rights on Neighbours after losing the FA Cup.
The only reason Doctor Who went downhill was Michael Grade hated it and wouldn't commit to the show, which was a huge export earner. Yet he was quite happy to waste money on imported crap that really belonged on Tyne Tees in the afternoon and where people saw through it after a few years.

True but I don't think Michael Grade is solely to blame, he wasn't even at the Beeb when Doctor Who was axed. The production team made a number of mistakes which didn't exactly help matters... Making Colin Baker's Doctor initially so unlikeable, starting his reign off with The Twin Dilemma! lumbering the whole of season twenty three with the trial plot etc etc

Now if we're talking about the axing of Tripods then I do completely blame Grade. I sat through two series of that, never to know what happens in the end :(


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