As there have been a number of threads discussing the BNP that have been closed because they went off topic, I decided to start one to discuss the politics of the BNP. Can all posters please refrain from name calling (It happened in the other thread) and keep the discussion civilised. The main point I want to make is that not all BNP supporters are racist.
Thank-You
6
If you support a party which has a primary policy based on repatriating people to "their land of ethnic origin" then you are supporting racism.
But as you want to have as serious debate as possible about the BNP - can you please answer my queries about the policy of "a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question."
I have three friends, born overseas, who live and work in the UK.
Two of the them are Americans, one black man and one man of Scottish ancestry. Where are their lands of ethnic origin?
Another friend is Jewish, his grandparents moved from Poland to South Africa, his parents moved from South Africa to the UK. Is his land of ethnic origin Poland, South Africa or Israel?
As this is the BNPs primary policy, I assume that it has been very well though through and that it would be very easy to give an answer.
Problem is, I've asked this question two or three times over the years to BNP supporters on these boards and never received a response. Its almost as if its a complete nonsense of a policy that collapses under the most cursory examination.
I do wish people would stop throwing out the word 'racism' as if it's supposed to make one keel over with a heart attack. The word 'racism' is basically Orwellian Newspeak, designed to reflect attention away from the real issues, it's a shield; it's name calling and it has no place in genuine debate.
I do wish people would stop throwing out the word 'racism' as if it's supposed to make one keel over with a heart attack. The word 'racism' is basically Orwellian Newspeak, designed to reflect attention away from the real issues, it's a shield; it's name calling and it has no place in genuine debate.
Its got every place in a genuine debate about a party that whose primary policy is a desire to repatriate people to their "land of ethnic origin". Its stating, quite clearly that it is undesirable for people of different races to live together and shows clear intolerance of other races. That fits in very neatly with the dictionary definition of racist.
I find that using 1984 to criticise anything one is against to be so commonplace and so often ill-judged that it has no place in genuine debate. Top bloke Orwell though - try his Notes on Nationalism to see how likely he would be to side with a nationalist party.
Has anyone here ever tried to debate economics with a BNP activist? Try it - it's hilarious. They really haven't a clue.
Try debating -anything- with them and they generally don't have a clue. They're usually very keyed up on the usual right-wing arguments for this, that and the other, but have a complete and utter lack of critical thinking when you introduce different ideas into the discussion.
I've been called a 'lefty' and a 'liberal' so many times by them that it just makes me laugh now.
To me, they're more like a cult; an excuse for the poorly-educated and weak-minded to repeat the complicated words of their holy leaders to try and make themselves feel special, while the rest of the world just looks on and laughs.
I'm curious as to why the B.N.P see themselves as more British then myself.
My family have been here for over 50 years, and I was born here, as was my mother but because my skin colour and heritage are not indigenous, I cannot identify as British?
Frankly, I find that assertion insulting. I know nothing other then England, the same goes for my brother, sister, and many of the younger members of my family.
My dad who was born in India identifies as British, and is pretty proud of it too! He would never want to live anywhere else, and to be honest, why should he have to? Just because he was born in another country? It's absolutely ridiculous and makes very little sense.
The B.N.P accuses globalisation of ruining British industry, even though much of it was actually destroyed during the Thatcher years, and had little to do with immigration anyway..
They think that excluding non-natives from job opportunities will somehow end unemployment, an idea that is laughable. People may be unemployed for a myriad of reasons, to assume that this is solely down to immigration is naive at the least.
They are happy to condemn foreign rapists and paedophiles but refuse to condemn those in their party who commit similar acts.
They name and shame criminals in the other political parties, but when it comes to their own, suggest that they do not represent them and are acting as individuals, but do not see the hypocritical nature of that statement.
Some use them as a protest vote, but I would rather not vote, then associate myself with such a deplorable party who only have one issue in mind, which is divisive, and seeks to remove the rights of others.
How anyone can agree with the removal of rights of people is beyond me..?
The comparison with a cult seems to me an accurate summary of the BNP and those who act as its apologists.
It is very informative how in spite of the word "British" being in their name they are so weak at presenting britishness with any sort of aspiration, thus it becomes entirely a negative, emphasising what we are not rather than who we are and what we desire to become as a nation.
The BNP display very little love of the english language and its cultural heritage, You do not have to be articulate or even well educated to have some appreciation of a language and I woudl have expected a true nationalist party to aspire to higher standards of english literacy.
They also show little interest in our history and achievements or understanding of its meaning, this would of course involve addressing issues of religion and class. Christianity is used for instance when convenient to bash the muslims but any attempt to explore its part in our heritage for good or bad is rebutted
My belief is that the BNP want to have their cake and eat it as far as Christianity goes, they want its position in history but not its teaching.
On moral issues the BNP are utterly hypocritical, they are quick to pick up any fault in their enemies but totally blind to thieir own failings or those of the indigenous population.
BNP "philosophy" is a rag bag of half baked prejudices. I would be interested to konw if any elected BNP councillor has actually achieved anything.
Perhaps number 6 could illuminate me.
Well a BNP activist managed to get the reluctant Rotherham police force to investigate a paedophile ring resulting in 9 arrests but the thread about that was removed for some reason. Latest below, until this post gets deleted and you can say; "they do nothing, absolutely nothing, see no-one can come up with anything."
Well a BNP activist managed to get the reluctant Rotherham police force to investigate a paedophile ring resulting in 9 arrests but the thread about that was removed for some reason. Latest below, until this post gets deleted and you can say; "they do nothing, absolutely nothing, see no-one can come up with anything."
What complete and utter rubbish. The police will have already been investigating. The BNP have tried to make out that they are the heroes in this but instead show themselves to be the desperate headline grabbers they really are. Do not make out that they are the ones standing up for the downtrodden because they are not. They are only interested in spreading their filth in any way they can.
"We have found it impossible to work with UAF in any meaningful sense for some considerable period of time. However, the final straw has been public accusations that we are pandering to racism by addressing the issue of the grooming of young women in Keighley. We believe that if we did not address the issue then the BNP would be given a free hand to use it to garner votes."
Searchlight were right, and seem like decent people, even if I disagree with their politics. UAF are like the BNP used to be, extremist thugs who hit anyone who disgrees with them with hammers, i.e. fascists (they don't understand irony either).
"We have found it impossible to work with UAF in any meaningful sense for some considerable period of time. However, the final straw has been public accusations that we are pandering to racism by addressing the issue of the grooming of young women in Keighley. We believe that if we did not address the issue then the BNP would be given a free hand to use it to garner votes."
Searchlight were right, and seem like decent people, even if I disagree with their politics. UAF are like the BNP used to be, extremist thugs who hit anyone who disgrees with them with hammers, i.e. fascists (they don't understand irony either).
But the BNP are still fascist thugs. They just dress it up and lie about their true agenda.
But the BNP are still fascist thugs. They just dress it up and lie about their true agenda.
No, they were smart enough to realise no-one was going to vote for skinheads fighting in the street. The UAF is funded by unions and doesn't stand for election. I have also personally witnessed a attack by the UAF (see below).
Political extremists on the right and left have a lot in common, look at the Hitchens brothers, one on the extreme left, one on the extreme right. UAF thugs are indistiguishable from BNP thugs from years gone by, in fact there are many fascists who have gone in prison, read some book and come out marxists, but they're still extremists and always will be, it's part of the personality.
No, they were smart enough to realise no-one was going to vote for skinheads fighting in the street. The UAF is funded by unions and doesn't stand for election. I have also personally witnessed a attack by the UAF (see below).
Political extremists on the right and left have a lot in common, look at the Hitchens brothers, one on the extreme left, one on the extreme right. UAF thugs are indistiguishable from BNP thugs from years gone by, in fact there are many fascists who have gone in prison, read some book and come out marxists, but they're still extremists and always will be, it's part of the personality.
No, they realised that they would get no votes unless they toned down their public image. It makes no difference, as anyone of a right mind can see through their lies.
I don't always agree with the actions of the UAF, but at least they are honest unlike the BNP. The BNP stay aligned to violent racist organistations and I am sure they celebrate anytime someone who is not white British gets attacked.
No, they realised that they would get no votes unless they toned down their public image. It makes no difference, as anyone of a right mind can see through their lies.
I don't always agree with the actions of the UAF, but at least they are honest unlike the BNP. The BNP stay aligned to violent racist organistations and I am sure they celebrate anytime someone who is not white British gets attacked.
They're not honest because they never declare their membership in any of these threads, unlike the BNP supporters. I suspect they are actually paid to post in these forums a part of their campaign to stop the BNP, notice how they never start any positive threads and spend all their time firefighting.
They're not honest because they never declare their membership in any of these threads, unlike the BNP supporters. I suspect they are actually paid to post in these forums a part of their campaign to stop the BNP, notice how they never start any positive threads and spend all their time firefighting.
I've never seen a UAF member post on here to be honest. Plenty of people that detest the BNP certainly but not UAF.
The BNP are cowards because they don't dare be truthful about their white supremacist racist views. They know that if they did they would have no chance of getting into power at all, not that they do anyway. In lying about their true opinions they are able to get the support of the less intelligent members of society who are far more gullible.
"We have found it impossible to work with UAF in any meaningful sense for some considerable period of time. However, the final straw has been public accusations that we are pandering to racism by addressing the issue of the grooming of young women in Keighley. We believe that if we did not address the issue then the BNP would be given a free hand to use it to garner votes."
Searchlight were right, and seem like decent people, even if I disagree with their politics. UAF are like the BNP used to be, extremist thugs who hit anyone who disgrees with them with hammers, i.e. fascists (they don't understand irony either).
that is a wild comparison you are making,i'm sure if the UAF were anywhere near as violent as the bnp i'd have heard about it,one hammer attack doesn't equal years of attacks by the bnp.
When the UAF stoop to the bnp level on a consistent basis i'm sure we'll be more aware of it.
The anti fascist groups are fairly tame in the uk,they are not so tame abroad.I used to hang around with french anti fascists in france,which is why i can see the difference in the groups.
The french wouldn't tolerate groups like the bnp leafleting on the street,like they do here.
Seriously, if the uk groups were as violent as you suggest leafleting on a street simply wouldn't happen in the uk.
My wife's mixed race cousins were routinely terrorised by the BNP and NF in years past. Their views have no place in a civilised society.
Neither does political violence. I've heard so many stories about people being racially harassed by the BNP that I'm surprised they aren't in power already as they must be millions strong.
Well a BNP activist managed to get the reluctant Rotherham police force to investigate a paedophile ring resulting in 9 arrests but the thread about that was removed for some reason. Latest below, until this post gets deleted and you can say; "they do nothing, absolutely nothing, see no-one can come up with anything."
I've never seen a UAF member post on here to be honest. Plenty of people that detest the BNP certainly but not UAF.
The BNP are cowards because they don't dare be truthful about their white supremacist racist views. They know that if they did they would have no chance of getting into power at all, not that they do anyway. In lying about their true opinions they are able to get the support of the less intelligent members of society who are far more gullible.
I've only seen one person over the last month mention that they have a link to UAF ,i have nothing to do with UAF and i'm not interested in joining them.
I support all anti fascist groups spiritually,not financially.
I'd also say there is less honesty from those on the far right,some will say they are part of the bnp,and others clearly are, but dodge the questions,or aren't honest with themselves.
Comments
If you support a party which has a primary policy based on repatriating people to "their land of ethnic origin" then you are supporting racism.
But as you want to have as serious debate as possible about the BNP - can you please answer my queries about the policy of "a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question."
I have three friends, born overseas, who live and work in the UK.
Two of the them are Americans, one black man and one man of Scottish ancestry. Where are their lands of ethnic origin?
Another friend is Jewish, his grandparents moved from Poland to South Africa, his parents moved from South Africa to the UK. Is his land of ethnic origin Poland, South Africa or Israel?
As this is the BNPs primary policy, I assume that it has been very well though through and that it would be very easy to give an answer.
Problem is, I've asked this question two or three times over the years to BNP supporters on these boards and never received a response. Its almost as if its a complete nonsense of a policy that collapses under the most cursory examination.
Goodbye.
Amazing. As an 18 yo at school, you cannot respond. Your BNP brethren must be striking you off the list.
Nah, I think there were too many words in akrigg's post. No6 probably has to get his dictionary out.
Its got every place in a genuine debate about a party that whose primary policy is a desire to repatriate people to their "land of ethnic origin". Its stating, quite clearly that it is undesirable for people of different races to live together and shows clear intolerance of other races. That fits in very neatly with the dictionary definition of racist.
I find that using 1984 to criticise anything one is against to be so commonplace and so often ill-judged that it has no place in genuine debate. Top bloke Orwell though - try his Notes on Nationalism to see how likely he would be to side with a nationalist party.
Try debating -anything- with them and they generally don't have a clue. They're usually very keyed up on the usual right-wing arguments for this, that and the other, but have a complete and utter lack of critical thinking when you introduce different ideas into the discussion.
I've been called a 'lefty' and a 'liberal' so many times by them that it just makes me laugh now.
To me, they're more like a cult; an excuse for the poorly-educated and weak-minded to repeat the complicated words of their holy leaders to try and make themselves feel special, while the rest of the world just looks on and laughs.
My family have been here for over 50 years, and I was born here, as was my mother but because my skin colour and heritage are not indigenous, I cannot identify as British?
Frankly, I find that assertion insulting. I know nothing other then England, the same goes for my brother, sister, and many of the younger members of my family.
My dad who was born in India identifies as British, and is pretty proud of it too! He would never want to live anywhere else, and to be honest, why should he have to? Just because he was born in another country? It's absolutely ridiculous and makes very little sense.
The B.N.P accuses globalisation of ruining British industry, even though much of it was actually destroyed during the Thatcher years, and had little to do with immigration anyway..
They think that excluding non-natives from job opportunities will somehow end unemployment, an idea that is laughable. People may be unemployed for a myriad of reasons, to assume that this is solely down to immigration is naive at the least.
They are happy to condemn foreign rapists and paedophiles but refuse to condemn those in their party who commit similar acts.
They name and shame criminals in the other political parties, but when it comes to their own, suggest that they do not represent them and are acting as individuals, but do not see the hypocritical nature of that statement.
Some use them as a protest vote, but I would rather not vote, then associate myself with such a deplorable party who only have one issue in mind, which is divisive, and seeks to remove the rights of others.
How anyone can agree with the removal of rights of people is beyond me..?
It is very informative how in spite of the word "British" being in their name they are so weak at presenting britishness with any sort of aspiration, thus it becomes entirely a negative, emphasising what we are not rather than who we are and what we desire to become as a nation.
The BNP display very little love of the english language and its cultural heritage, You do not have to be articulate or even well educated to have some appreciation of a language and I woudl have expected a true nationalist party to aspire to higher standards of english literacy.
They also show little interest in our history and achievements or understanding of its meaning, this would of course involve addressing issues of religion and class. Christianity is used for instance when convenient to bash the muslims but any attempt to explore its part in our heritage for good or bad is rebutted
My belief is that the BNP want to have their cake and eat it as far as Christianity goes, they want its position in history but not its teaching.
On moral issues the BNP are utterly hypocritical, they are quick to pick up any fault in their enemies but totally blind to thieir own failings or those of the indigenous population.
BNP "philosophy" is a rag bag of half baked prejudices. I would be interested to konw if any elected BNP councillor has actually achieved anything.
Perhaps number 6 could illuminate me.
Exactly, I have a job.
Well a BNP activist managed to get the reluctant Rotherham police force to investigate a paedophile ring resulting in 9 arrests but the thread about that was removed for some reason. Latest below, until this post gets deleted and you can say; "they do nothing, absolutely nothing, see no-one can come up with anything."
http://www.rotherhamadvertiser.com/News.aspx?id=8742
What complete and utter rubbish. The police will have already been investigating. The BNP have tried to make out that they are the heroes in this but instead show themselves to be the desperate headline grabbers they really are. Do not make out that they are the ones standing up for the downtrodden because they are not. They are only interested in spreading their filth in any way they can.
"We have found it impossible to work with UAF in any meaningful sense for some considerable period of time. However, the final straw has been public accusations that we are pandering to racism by addressing the issue of the grooming of young women in Keighley. We believe that if we did not address the issue then the BNP would be given a free hand to use it to garner votes."
Searchlight were right, and seem like decent people, even if I disagree with their politics. UAF are like the BNP used to be, extremist thugs who hit anyone who disgrees with them with hammers, i.e. fascists (they don't understand irony either).
But the BNP are still fascist thugs. They just dress it up and lie about their true agenda.
No, they were smart enough to realise no-one was going to vote for skinheads fighting in the street. The UAF is funded by unions and doesn't stand for election. I have also personally witnessed a attack by the UAF (see below).
Political extremists on the right and left have a lot in common, look at the Hitchens brothers, one on the extreme left, one on the extreme right. UAF thugs are indistiguishable from BNP thugs from years gone by, in fact there are many fascists who have gone in prison, read some book and come out marxists, but they're still extremists and always will be, it's part of the personality.
http://barnsley-nationalists.blogspot.com/2007/10/barnsley-bnp-paper-sale-attacked-by.html
No, they realised that they would get no votes unless they toned down their public image. It makes no difference, as anyone of a right mind can see through their lies.
I don't always agree with the actions of the UAF, but at least they are honest unlike the BNP. The BNP stay aligned to violent racist organistations and I am sure they celebrate anytime someone who is not white British gets attacked.
They're not honest because they never declare their membership in any of these threads, unlike the BNP supporters. I suspect they are actually paid to post in these forums a part of their campaign to stop the BNP, notice how they never start any positive threads and spend all their time firefighting.
I've never seen a UAF member post on here to be honest. Plenty of people that detest the BNP certainly but not UAF.
The BNP are cowards because they don't dare be truthful about their white supremacist racist views. They know that if they did they would have no chance of getting into power at all, not that they do anyway. In lying about their true opinions they are able to get the support of the less intelligent members of society who are far more gullible.
that is a wild comparison you are making,i'm sure if the UAF were anywhere near as violent as the bnp i'd have heard about it,one hammer attack doesn't equal years of attacks by the bnp.
When the UAF stoop to the bnp level on a consistent basis i'm sure we'll be more aware of it.
The anti fascist groups are fairly tame in the uk,they are not so tame abroad.I used to hang around with french anti fascists in france,which is why i can see the difference in the groups.
The french wouldn't tolerate groups like the bnp leafleting on the street,like they do here.
Seriously, if the uk groups were as violent as you suggest leafleting on a street simply wouldn't happen in the uk.
Instead they seem to do this freely.
Neither does political violence. I've heard so many stories about people being racially harassed by the BNP that I'm surprised they aren't in power already as they must be millions strong.
I welcome the police's intervention in this matter. Where is the evidence that it was instigated by the BNP?
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/03/only-the-bnp-made-something-happen-says-grandfather-of-latest-muslim-sex-g
http://leejohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2009/03/media-and-police-cover-up-muslim.html
I've only seen one person over the last month mention that they have a link to UAF ,i have nothing to do with UAF and i'm not interested in joining them.
I support all anti fascist groups spiritually,not financially.
I'd also say there is less honesty from those on the far right,some will say they are part of the bnp,and others clearly are, but dodge the questions,or aren't honest with themselves.