I think, given the majority of the costs have been picked up by Freemantle, that a Sixth series is a real possibility, the DVD and overseas sales for Merlin are pretty good so Freemantle will probably be happy to keep funding it.
I think the BBC will also be happy to keep it considering the good ratings and publicity it gets for the channel. Also, it does seem that they're trying to keep the costs down this year what with the loss of one French filming block for a start.
Even if the BBC cancels the regular series of Merlin they could still order specials like they do for Absolutely Fabulous or The Royle Family for Xmas or Easter. Maybe they no longer have the money or a place in the schedule for a 13 parter but the series is still very popular and a Xmas "Camelot in the snow" special could be a major ratings winner. Of course that depends on how they end the series. If we go as far as Camlan and Arthur dead and carried of to Avalon there won't be much use for a special.
Or Freemantle/Shine could do a "Primeval" and find extra funding elsewhere if they can persuade the BBC to release the copyright. Of course, if I remember correctly, it took more than a year to get that deal done and by that time half the cast/writers had gone to greener pastures. When they finaly got Primeval on air viewers didn't like the new cast or stories so it tanked. Maybe better to end Merlin on a high note
I really like the idea of specials, I enjoy the DW ones a lot because they are longer than an average ep and aren't necessarily constrained by episode story arcs.
I think going to a different production company is normally a double edged sword. Both Primeval and Torchwood dipped in quality, despite the wonderful gift of more money! Definitely better to see Merlin finish than pass from company to company until it's both unrecognisable and rubbish!
Incidentally, being too thrifty to pay for sky, I still haven't seen the last series of primeval and I've forgotten what happened before!
I think the BBC will also be happy to keep it considering the good ratings and publicity it gets for the channel. Also, it does seem that they're trying to keep the costs down this year what with the loss of one French filming block for a start.
I love the castle in France but if they have to film the whole thing in a quarry in Wales I wouldn't care! I expect the cast would have something to say though
I think the BBC will also be happy to keep it considering the good ratings and publicity it gets for the channel. Also, it does seem that they're trying to keep the costs down this year what with the loss of one French filming block for a start.
I think the not going to France is more to do with they have the sets in studio now so there is no need to transport everything over there. Also I think theres alot more outside the castle stuff this year.. as there was more outside the castle stuff in series 4 compared the first 3 series.
I love the castle in France but if they have to film the whole thing in a quarry in Wales I wouldn't care! I expect the cast would have something to say though
Yes indeed that quarry is nasty, cold, wet, windy.. yuck!!
So does any understanding of psychology or good writing.
But that IS the foundation of the Monomyth. It was a marriage of psychoanalytic theory applied to good story telling! And, what it told those who saw it was that when properly understood, the story of the Hero's Journey did not change over the ages, but the Hero did.
Monomyth - nice theory, interesting in a literature class, no more to say about it here.
Actually, there is. People in what used to be called "Ethics and Moral Philosophy" which studied human behavior and motivation shifted their emphasis years ago from "how people should act" to "why do people act" as they do. Fields like economics, sociology, psychology, etc in the Liberal Arts developed and those areas of study took the themes in the Monomyth and applied it to real world concerns.
For instance, Pearson's work on behavior and motivation resulted in archetypal "Questing Heroes" whose archetypes are now used in branding and marketing products, companies, personalities, and movies... and television shows like Merlin. The experience over the years has been that those that followed the Monomyth or at least sold people on the archetypes in the Monomyth tended to do better than those that did not. And, in general, the writers since the mid-1990s trended toward using the Monomyth as a template.
There's far more intriguing things to talk about as regards the specifics of this show since that theory can no more accurately speculate what can happen than any other.
Some moreso than others. Without being involved with the show, we cannot know the exact specifics of any show but the various twist and turns of the Hero's Journey can give the viewers expectations of what to expect along that Journey. And which course that Journey takes becomes more likely depending on the climate of the times and a knowledge of the Hero(es).
The SHINE discussion fits in nicely. Based on the earlier hints in 11/2012 of Merlin going to S06 and beyond, it seemed that Merlin was all set. Then, I saw S04E13--- it was a good episode but not what I'd expect and it felt flat. The Monomyth gave me an objective socio-economic model company execs love to explain success and failures and the the relatively poor showing which projected into ratings. Then, I saw the ratings which were good but not great.
Not long after, I saw the SHINE/Freemantle were asking for ideas for S05 and beyond. The feeling I got from those events was that the ratings for S04E13 weren't nearly as good as what people expected. Suddenly, Merlin didn't seem to be all set for S06 and a couple weeks later, talk of S06 didn't seem so likely after all. Now, it seems that S05 would be the last.
The Monomyth when used properly should provide solutions to "fix" that. And, some of those things I see happening now based on the spoilers.
Even if the BBC cancels the regular series of Merlin they could still order specials like they do for Absolutely Fabulous or The Royle Family for Xmas or Easter. Maybe they no longer have the money or a place in the schedule for a 13 parter but the series is still very popular and a Xmas "Camelot in the snow" special could be a major ratings winner. Of course that depends on how they end the series. If we go as far as Camlan and Arthur dead and carried of to Avalon there won't be much use for a special.
As far as I'm aware they havn't ruled out the possibility of a Merlin film yet.
I can appreciate why they did it with Smallville, in fact, I don't think they originally intended it to get that far. It's a good analogy for my concerns though.
Personally, I think there could be plenty of material for a couple of series after the reveal.
So do I, there are plenty of tales they can use from the legends. My ideal ending if S5 is the last would be for Merlin to reveal his magic mid-series so we can see Merlin finally in his destined role for at least more than one episode. Its quite possible this could happen as if there is a row between them as Morgan implies, they're not going to put the reveal right at the end when the future of the show is uncertain. Once everything is in place, it still will be enjoyable to watch, especially because there is still that unusual dynamic between a young Merlin and Arthur that is very different from the legends. Furthermore, I needn't point out that Merlin has a distinct universe of its own with the tales in a different order, we may know that Arthur will be mortally wounded by Mordred but what of the epic story in prior to that which will be different in its nature to the legends we have all read. I can quite happily continue watching the show, there's no sign of exhaustion and it just keeps getting better.
Not long after, I saw the SHINE/Freemantle were asking for ideas for S05 and beyond. The feeling I got from those events was that the ratings for S04E13 weren't nearly as good as what people expected. Suddenly, Merlin didn't seem to be all set for S06 and a couple weeks later, talk of S06 didn't seem so likely after all. Now, it seems that S05 would be the last.
Which audience figures are you talking about? In the UK Merlin achieved 8.18 million viewers which is the highest in the shows history. The figures in the US are far behind those of Britain.
I think the not going to France is more to do with they have the sets in studio now so there is no need to transport everything over there. Also I think theres alot more outside the castle stuff this year.. as there was more outside the castle stuff in series 4 compared the first 3 series.
Yup. But I suppose it does save a bit as well so it's win win really
And yes, the finale of Merlin did excellently in the ratings - in a week that included Christmas it was the 6th best rated show on the BBC. The week before that it was third (behind Strictly and Eastenders). It's series average was only a tiny bit below (0.3m) Doctor Who's.
The SHINE discussion fits in nicely. Based on the earlier hints in 11/2012 of Merlin going to S06 and beyond, it seemed that Merlin was all set. Then, I saw S04E13--- it was a good episode but not what I'd expect and it felt flat. The Monomyth gave me an objective socio-economic model company execs love to explain success and failures and the the relatively poor showing which projected into ratings. Then, I saw the ratings which were good but not great.
Not long after, I saw the SHINE/Freemantle were asking for ideas for S05 and beyond. The feeling I got from those events was that the ratings for S04E13 weren't nearly as good as what people expected. Suddenly, Merlin didn't seem to be all set for S06 and a couple weeks later, talk of S06 didn't seem so likely after all. Now, it seems that S05 would be the last.
The Monomyth when used properly should provide solutions to "fix" that. And, some of those things I see happening now based on the spoilers.
FYI Sword in the Stone Part 2 got a consolidated rating of 8.18 million viewers with a AI of 90 which is in fact the 2nd highest rating Merlin ever got. Only Sword in the Stone Part 1 rated higher with 8.38m - AI 90. On top that Ep 413 got 550.000 views/downloads on iPlayer. Not exactly a failure is it.
The fact that the tptb asked for suggestions on fb/twitter is a joke. They have effectively shut down all crew twitters, Eoin has had his little booty kicked twice now for putting info/pics on twitter that he shouldn't have, there are no spoilers out there, PF filming and photo/spoiler opportunities are kept to a minimum. TPTB asking fans for "ideas" for future scripts/story lines is laughable. It's a way of keeping the stupid "merkins" involved while Merlin Official is the shittiest official website in the history of official websites and the only thing they are giving us are S4 pics and a load of BS. Of course they will mention S6 in interviews, give the BBC a hint that they are ready if/when they want to order it.
S6 re-commissioning will depend on money available, scheduling time and in a small part ratings. And no matter how much I may enjoy the discussions/arguments around here (while lurking) the Monomyth theory has little to do with it. Merlin is no Game of Thrones or The Wire or any other adult drama out there . Like Robin Hood before and Dr.Who now it's a Saturday night tea-time family show with a little a bit of drama, a little bit of comedy, some romance, some (sword) fights and in Merlin's case magic to amuse a family audience aged 8 to 80 years old shown between a celebrity dancing show and a lottery quiz. Don't look for more behind it or you'll end up with major disappointment.
I think the not going to France is more to do with they have the sets in studio now so there is no need to transport everything over there. Also I think theres alot more outside the castle stuff this year.. as there was more outside the castle stuff in series 4 compared the first 3 series.
More outside the castle stuff means less Gwen and less Gaius which is a disappointment.
FYI Sword in the Stone Part 2 got a consolidated rating of 8.18 million viewers with a AI of 90 which is in fact the 2nd highest rating Merlin ever got. Only Sword in the Stone Part 1 rated higher with 8.38m - AI 90. On top that Ep 413 got 550.000 views/downloads on iPlayer. Not exactly a failure is it.
Depends on how you judge success. Usually, people look for trends and the projected numbers for any concluding episode MUST be higher. That would have suggested a growth in the audience, pulling people into the show; instead, it wasn’t. It was a peak and plateau at best if not a decline.
The fact that the tptb asked for suggestions on fb/twitter is a joke... TPTB asking fans for "ideas" for future scripts/story lines is laughable.
I didn’t know about Twitter. I just saw it on a Merlin site I visited. For those who don’t know, this was all a hoax then: "If you love all things Merlin and would be happy to be interviewed, or would like to find out more please email info@shine.tv with subject header ‘Merlin Fan’(by midday Friday 13th January)." You can see it here:
And, some people were actually “interviewed” which amounted to a question being asked including the possibility of Pendragon babies. The answer was no.
... It's a way of keeping the stupid "merkins" involved while Merlin Official is the shittiest official website in the history of official websites and the only thing they are giving us are S4 pics and a load of BS. Of course they will S6 in interviews, give the BBC a hint that they are ready if/when they want to order it.
So then, they really are disrespecting the fans because...
S6 re-commissioning will depend on money available, scheduling time and in a small part ratings. And no matter how much I may enjoy the discussions/arguments around here (while lurking) the Monomyth theory has little to do with it.
I guess that's the difference between US and British Television. In the US, ratings = advertisers, advertisers = money, and money = continuation. The networks, cable stations, public broadcast networks, etc. do programming and counter-programming as a result and that's why certain shows get cancelled while some lesser shows continue. It has to do with a concept called "marketing and branding" because that can attract viewers making the difference between continuation or cancellation.
...Merlin is no Game of Thrones or The Wire or any other adult drama out there . Like Robin Hood before and Dr.Who now it's a Saturday night tea-time family show with little a bit of drama, a little bit of comedy, some romance, some (sword) fights and in Merlin's case magic to amuse a family audience aged 8 to 80 years old shown between a celebrity dancing show and a lottery quiz...
Yes, but Merlin was never intended to be. Star Wars is no Citizen Kane but ask George Lucas, and he can and has pointed out how the Monomyth is in both films. Besides, not all the things people sent in to FB/Twitter are on that site. In there are other boards besides those were ideas were posted. And, some sent suggestions in using postal and email.
They have effectively shut down all crew twitters, Eoin has had his little booty kicked twice now for putting info/pics on twitter that he shouldn't have, there are no spoilers out there, PF filming and photo/spoiler opportunities are kept to a minimum.
Frankly, I hope they kick him to the moon! I actually believed the guy when he said in an interview that TPTB actually listened to their fans and if enough fans wanted to see something happen like the knights (or Merlin) have a love interest, then TPTB would consider it if there were good reasons and if they could see it fit in with the rest of the series. And, those others playing the likes of Leon and Percival and Elyan were backing Gwaine up! I’ll bet they were even lying about being on social media, too!
Don't look for more behind it or you'll end up with major disappointment.
Disappointed? That’s a joke. I already am that and more--- and I’m sure others will be, too! Once all is known… Paraphrasing Agravaine: “… he was lying!” But, “I (never) knew he was lying!”
Before filming, some fans sent lists in via email and regular mail with ideas largely based on the Monomyth (19 of 20) contributed by someone. Based on the spoilers, there was every indication they might come true in S05! So, I am truly disappointed to find that all this is a lie from the very beginning!
What may or may not be seen yet but was strongly inferred and to be expected:
1. a snowy episode of Merlin (change of scene from the usual cave or belly of the whale convention on this show)
2. Gwen Quest based on a Heroine's Journey
3. Morgana Quest based on a Heroine's Journey
4. Merlin Quests with the KORT to develop their characters
5. Merlin becoming even Darker and gaining in power and mastery of magic being tempted but not becoming EVIL
6. Aithusa being a servant of the Triple Goddess and serving Morgana allied with a Saxon force to help bring about Albion.
7. Merlin meeting others from legends or people based on them.
8. Redemptive arcs for Uther, Lancelot, Morgana, and Gwen
9. Queen Annis calling in a favor from Arthur because invaders under the control of Morgana/Mordred threaten Caerleon
10. Bayard or Lot or another king invoking the treaties signed by Uther to force Arthur alliance against invaders
11. The need for the kingdoms to unite under one leader against a common foe
12. Merlin locked in battle with aspects of the Triple Goddess --- the Maid, the Mother, the Crone--- prevailing and emerging as the great sorcercer
13. Arthur finding out early that Merlin had magic but Merlin wasn’t aware of it!
14. Arthur having to gain Merlin’s trust, learning Merlin’s value to Camelot, and appreciating him for it
15. Merlin going on Quests with or without Arthur to obtain magic and magical weapons for his battle
16. Merlin meets his Nemesis--- a player on the other side who shares the same background, skill, power, and knowledge as Merlin, with the same goals, but a different means to accomplish them.
17. Arthur meets his Nemesis--- a king and warrior who is like Arthur but opposes him
18. Merlin and/or Arthur creating challenges and tests for future generations of kings and knights
What won't be seen:
19. A love interest for Merlin or for the knights.
20. A Merlin Musical because Angel Coulby is the only one who can carry a tune. (*)
*- Non-Monomyth but it seemed like a nice idea for a charity show.
Oh, and I hope they REALLY punish this guy and throw him off the show for posting the “PF filming dates”!!! Paraphrasing Agravaine, again: “… he was lying!” But, “I (never) knew he was lying!”
It’s in French but it supposedly gives the dates:
Dates de tournage à Pierrefonds ( saison 5 ) by Colin Morgan on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 7:18am ·
Voici les dates du tournage de la saison 5 de Merlin en France, provenance de l'Office de Tourisme de Pierrefonds :
Premère sessions du 14/06/2012 au 27/06/2012
Deuxième sessions du 06/09/2012 au 14/09/2012
sous réserve de modifications.
Il semblerait que le tournage ne compte que deux sessions cette année, la session mars-avril ne figure pas en tête de liste ...
I should have known! There are only 12 months in a year; not 27 And, I thought he was using the European convention. AND, it's in FRENCH! He's supposed to be IRISH!
Guys like this come across as being nice, friendly sorts when they’re really nothing but phonies. I know some people who actually made vacation plans for those dates. I know I’d be canceling!
It’s not that I, or anyone hated the show. To the contrary, some of us liked it but just thought it could be better… raising it up a level and transforming it from a good to a memorable viewing experience. That’s what Christopher Vogel’s original purpose for the MONOMYTH was intended: to guide the writer to graft or prune their story to give the audience a memorable experience!
Applying those principles, some very minor things could and should have been done to elevate the show--- often just a sentence or expression. And some of us even went so far as to create BOOK(s) of MERLIN 2 and 3--- meaning potential story lines of episodes for up to 10 years--- all for fun… and, all for free! But, I see the error of my ways. You get what you pay for… I and others have been played for fools. Alas but nothing lost except for innocence as they say
Thanks Sinjoorke, you’ve done a great service for us all.
Depends on how you judge success. Usually, people look for trends and the projected numbers for any concluding episode MUST be higher. That would have suggested a growth in the audience, pulling people into the show; instead, it wasn’t. It was a peak and plateau at best if not a decline.
Sorry but that is just nonsense in rating terms. A show has to hit the ground running and not lose too much of its audience. It needs to keep steady or make a gradual growth but no on expects a 4 year old TV series to continually be getting more viewers. 8m+ is excellent for a UK drama.
Oh, and I hope they REALLY punish this guy and throw him off the show for posting the “PF filming dates”!!!
Er....you do know that Pierrefond themselves always give the dates out, yes? They put it on their own website to tell their visitors that access to parts of the castle/grounds may be restricted on those dates. It's hardly a secret! Of course, the dates have and will change (they have in the past too) because schedules change!
I hardly dare ask this as I feel so stupid for not knowing, but what do the initials TPTB stand for? I have to be stupid, because I really can't understand half of Mike's posts, and certainly not his last one.
I hardly dare ask this as I feel so stupid for not knowing, but what do the initials TPTB stand for? I have to be stupid, because I really can't understand half of Mike's posts, and certainly not his last one.
The Powers That Be - in other words the show runners/producers.
And don't feel daft, we all have to learn this lingo somewhere. Personally I don't think Mike's post was best expressed - it was unclear what he was trying to say in many parts of it so it wasn't just you.
Ah thanks for that. I kind of worked out it was something to do with the makers of the show, but couldn't get beyond "the producers and the........"
I didn't mean to belittle you Mike, but you seemed quite angry by the end, and I can't understand why (though I felt quite angry earlier reading about how the BBC had nearly dumped Merlin after series 2 and it was only saved by Freemantle. It is so sad that the BBC haven't recognised the little nugget they have in Merlin.)
As for prefacing the legends, whilst I am interested in those, I watch Merlin because I love the characters and storylines as the BBC have made them, they could leave the legend behind and I would still enjoy it.
So would I, but it wouldn't be "Merlin" if you see what I mean, it would just be random generic fantasy adventure show. The reason it works so well, imho, is because they are twisting the stories that lots of viewers are familiar with.
As far as I'm aware they havn't ruled out the possibility of a Merlin film yet.
My ideal ending if S5 is the last would be for Merlin to reveal his magic mid-series so we can see Merlin finally in his destined role for at least more than one episode.
There's no way they're going to get a feature film out of Merlin. Much as I love this show there simply isn't the funding available nor the big names/cast to generate that funding.
You might get an hour-and-a-half TV special but it ain't going to be going into cinemas in the UK, I'd put money on that.
As for the other part of your quote, I suspect that will be what happens if they go down that road. It wouldn't be the very last episode of the series and everyone left hanging, they'd do like they did with Season 10 of Smallville and do the reveal with about four or five episodes left for the "regulars" to come to terms with finding out.
And no matter how much I may enjoy the discussions/arguments around here (while lurking) the Monomyth theory has little to do with it. Merlin is no Game of Thrones or The Wire or any other adult drama out there .
Like Robin Hood before and Dr.Who now it's a Saturday night tea-time family show with a little a bit of drama, a little bit of comedy, some romance, some (sword) fights and in Merlin's case magic to amuse a family audience aged 8 to 80 years old shown between a celebrity dancing show and a lottery quiz. Don't look for more behind it or you'll end up with major disappointment.
Which is what I've been pretty much also saying for pages and pages until I promised Ip229 I'd shut up
I hardly dare ask this as I feel so stupid for not knowing, but what do the initials TPTB stand for? I have to be stupid, because I really can't understand half of Mike's posts, and certainly not his last one.
Personally I don't think Mike's post was best expressed - it was unclear what he was trying to say in many parts of it so it wasn't just you.
I would agree, the gist of it seemed to be fans on various sites sent in ideas based on the monomyth theory and are also thinking they've been hoodwinked by Eoin and other members of the cast not actually having any influence on what goes on in the show. Or that's what it seems like to me.
I suspect a lot of Mike's post's issues are to do with the difference between US and UK television as theirs is all utterly dependent on ad revenue and ratings whereas ours here, especially the BBC, has completely different criterion to fulfill. While Merlin continues to hit the Saturday night demographic it's aimed at then there is a very high chance there will be a sixth series.
While Merlin continues to hit the Saturday night demographic it's aimed at then there is a very high chance there will be a sixth series.
Yeah I think that money is an issue but also if the BBC isn't fully paying for it anyway then that actually negates a lot of that. And whilst it is still rating well and fulfilling is remit then I can see them still wanting it.
Just for the facts: All the Merlin ratings on one diagram
The Series 4 finale exceeded expectations, ep13 had 0.5 million more viewers than the latest finale of Doctor Who, and the highest audience Appreciation Index among all BBC shows in the Christmas period.
As I said I'm quite optimistic about the possibility of a sixth series. Merlin is an expensive show, but the costs are split between the BBC and Fremantle, so the budget cuts must have less effect on it. Let's not forget, they've just upgraded the show to 35mm film, the most expensive (and the finest) format! In fact Merlin is the only BBC drama shot on 35mm film.
As far as I know Merlin - sold to 180 countries - is the most successful drama of FremantleMedia Enterprises (have a look on their website), the largest european distributor, which realised a profit of $188 million in 2011. Fremantle is a very big player.
If I'm not mistaken, Merlin is the only drama produced by Shine at the moment (Spooks has ended last year), so they will support it as much as they can.
And the most important fact: Merlin is one of the most successful dramas of the BBC and their well-tried "weapon" against The X-Factor. It provides strong ratings for 13 weeks opposite the biggest show on UK television.
In addition Merlin's production is very organized and stable, they have never run out of money or the schedule, and are always ready to be aired in the Autumn. You can't say the same about DW which is reported to be a bit of a mess in the last couple of years and has a very uncertain schedule.
So would I, but it wouldn't be "Merlin" if you see what I mean, it would just be random generic fantasy adventure show. The reason it works so well, imho, is because they are twisting the stories that lots of viewers are familiar with.
I completely understand what you are saying and I feel the same, I just wouldn't want the show to end purely because they felt the legends had been covered before.
There's no way they're going to get a feature film out of Merlin. Much as I love this show there simply isn't the funding available nor the big names/cast to generate that funding.
You might get an hour-and-a-half TV special but it ain't going to be going into cinemas in the UK, I'd put money on that.
I'm still holding out hope for a film but I do think it's very very unlikely and the producers are likely just stringing us on! Besides, the latest "news" on the film I could find was from about October last year. I think it would work very well as a 90 minute special and IMO it would be a nice way to continue the story every couple of years after it's officially finished.
Just for the facts: All the Merlin ratings on one diagram
The Series 4 finale exceeded expectations, ep13 had 0.5 million more viewers than the latest finale of Doctor Who, and the highest audience Appreciation Index among all BBC shows in the Christmas period.
I think there are grounds for optimism.
Excellent diagram! It does also put into perspective why the BBC considered dropping it after series 2, I think I might have as well (if ratings were the only factor, which I'm sure they're not)!
Thanks for some optimism to brighten up the thread
Er....you do know that Pierrefond themselves always give the dates out, yes?...
Actually, no. I didn't get the message from that site... Anyway, I guess it’s not really a spoiler then and since it’s not , what claire2281 refers is a letter from “Colin Morgan” concerning the filming dates at Pierrefonds for MERLIN which he gives as June 14-27, 2012 and September 6-14, 2012. If those dates are changed fine with me, I don’t intend to go... Not that I'd ever want to... though someone I know got married at Pierrefonds a while back.
...
I didn't mean to belittle you Mike, but you seemed quite angry by the end, and I can't understand why
It all has to do with the betrayal toward the fans by “the powers that be” (TPTB) and their accomplices (the actors and others involved in their “joke” on “stupid merkins”) as sinjoorke explained. To be honest, I can see the writers taking that attitude--- which would be bad and unfortunate--- but NOT the directors or producers.
Much worse is the attitude of complete and utter disdain by TPTB (and those the enlisted) toward the fans such activity reveals. As sinjoorke pointed out "(i)t's only a way of keeping the stupid 'merkins' involved while Merlin Official is the shittiest official website in the history of official websites..." And when production companies enlist the aid of others on the show to further that “joke” (like the Eoin incident with the others suggesting that TPTB actually listen to the fans of the show), it merely highlights their disdain by playing the fans as fools.
And THAT disrespect for the fans is what angers me.
And if I saw that diagram, I'd be concerned that the show's lost viewership and I'd want to know why that was so that the show could be continually improved. Because you’re seeing a declining growth curve much as you did in season 1.
...
… (though I felt quite angry earlier reading about how the BBC had nearly dumped Merlin after series 2 and it was only saved by Freemantle.
It’s quite reasonable to dump Merlin based on the graph: despite the absolute high numbers, the relative decrease is cause for concern. But, what give it hope is the rate of growth at the end of S02.
...
It is so sad that the BBC haven't recognised the little nugget they have in Merlin.)
True. But, unfortunately, the growth response of the show wasn’t what it should have been in S01 or in S04. While it is true that Merlin’s achieved some commercial success, the financial backers (we used to call them “angels”) have to make a decision: 1) cancel the show and rake in the profits (or cutting any losses before they become too high) or 2) continue the show and take a chance that a show that appears to be in decline might turn things around. BBC kept things going until S02 and would have been justified to cut its losses based on the showing to cancel but the fact that the show rose would argue for continuation; it's a gamble but Freemantle gambled and won.
But will they do so again? The rational way to try to maximize success in continuing the show would be to do what SHINE/FREEMANTLE seemed to be doing. The production company could either 1) hire consultants who in turn will conduct research samples who will ask fans which costs money as an indirect method of finding out what the fans want OR 2) ask the fans directly: what is it that you like about Merlin, what do you want to see, how did the show affect you, etc. the sort of things it wanted to know on its site.
Because if that were me, I'd take those ideas and see if they could be worked into the show. It's a common practice among film makers who can afford it to hold pre-screenings for a test audience to test pilot a film or television series and take opinion polls. So, even if people like the showing, TPTB will still try and improve the product. But, that’s the difference between British and American ways of doing things, I guess…
However, there’s a promise inherent in their appeal to fans: TPTB will listen to what the fans want and if it can be worked out then that’s what the fans will see in one form or another. That’s also the same message the actors on the show gave to various fans at various interviews and conventions. The 20 or so things in the spoiler list were based on the MONOMYTH and it seemed TPTB to look upon them favorably based on the spoilery things out there. But as sinjoorke notes was all a “joke” on the fans!
THAT is a monumental betrayal to the FANS who wanted the show to be a success. The fact is, some fans didn’t care too much about Merlin’s reveal but they did want Arthur to find out before the series ended with or without Merlin’s knowledge. That way Arthur wouldn’t seem so “dim.” Others wanted to see the Morgana-Morgause Paradox solved: Both Morgana and Morgause are daughters of the Hourse of Gorlois but Gorlois CAN NOT be the biological father of either Morgana or Morgause as S02 indicated, still they are sisters and by S03, Uther is Morgana’s father but Gorlois is NOT Morgause’s biologic father. So, they wanted to see in S05, either Gorlois or Vivienne appear to explain that one. But, most wanted the Gwen-Lancelot Problem explained: How does Merlin convince Arthur that Magic can be a force for good when Arthur’s seen all that’s bad occur and if/when the magic bracelet thing gets revealed will Arthur ever be convinced that magic is not pure evil when it nearly ruined his life? The answer: Gwen’s Quest for redemption.
According to sinjoorke, "TPTB asking fans for 'ideas' for future scripts/story lines is laughable," and when it appeared they had--- not scripts, just story lines--- it was nothing more than a "joke." In other words, TPTB disrespected the fans of the show. When it seemed that SHINE/FREEMANTLE had been trying to improve its production by giving the fans what they wanted so that viewership would grow, TPTB lied because TPTB failed to and never intended to act in good faith on its part because to them they made it a “joke”. AND if that’s what the show’s about then I don’t see it lasting very long.
According to sinjoorke, "TPTB asking fans for 'ideas' for future scripts/story lines is laughable," and when it appeared they had--- not scripts, just story lines--- it was nothing more than a "joke."
I'm really sorry but I cannot believe anyone took that to be anything other than PR. Perhaps it's because you're American and this is a British show but it's one method of gaining publicity and generating discussion about a show. I don't think there's anyone I know who would seriously think a TV company was asking people for things they were going to actually follow up on. It's a method of keeping fans' interested that's all.
True. But, unfortunately, the growth response of the show wasn’t what it should have been in S01 or in S04.
And, again, I think the fact you don't seem to understand how British TV works is what's giving you this impression. All Merlin needs to do, to meet the viewing criteron for the BBC, is draw in a reasonable audience in the Saturday early evening slot. It doesn't need to sell well or beat anything else, it's a publicly funded channel.
Unlike America, the BBC doesn't need to have focus panels, AI ratings or draw in advertising, the money for it is always there. If the BBC wants Merlin, it will commission Merlin irrespective of whether Freemantle's making money on it. The amount per episode for the slot Merlin sits is price targeted up to £285k per hour if it comes under the entertainment slot, and it's prices targeted between £600k - £800k per hour if it's counted as a drama.
The brief for BBC One's Saturday night slot is -
on Saturday nights the audience want to see high quality, big scale Entertainment which gives them a sense of escape and release, and which they can share with others – both at the time and afterwards
and Merlin meets that criterion without any problems.
While it is true that Merlin’s achieved some commercial success, the financial backers (we used to call them “angels”) have to make a decision: 1) cancel the show and rake in the profits (or cutting any losses before they become too high) or 2) continue the show and take a chance that a show that appears to be in decline might turn things around.
While Merlin makes money for Freemantle on DVD and sales of the rights to broadcast abroad, they'll continue making it available for the BBC. The BBC is a not for profit organisation which doesn't have to "sell" anything. The only thing likely to decide whether the BBC fails to commission another series of Merlin is if they either conclude the story in series five, or the BBC is offered another show that they think will fit into the 8 to 9pm time slot to go out after Strictly Come Dancing.
Merlin draws in a high audience share on a Saturday night and, as has been pointed out, beat Doctor Who in the same time slot for series four.
Just for the facts: All the Merlin ratings on one diagram
And the most important fact: Merlin is one of the most successful dramas of the BBC and their well-tried "weapon" against The X-Factor. It provides strong ratings for 13 weeks opposite the biggest show on UK television.
In addition Merlin's production is very organized and stable, they have never run out of money or the schedule, and are always ready to be aired in the Autumn. You can't say the same about DW which is reported to be a bit of a mess in the last couple of years and has a very uncertain schedule.
I think there are grounds for optimism.
The new BBC family show 'the Musketeers' is due for 2014 apparently, so there's no reason to believe at the moment why the BBC will not commission a 6th series of Merlin.
Disappointed? That’s a joke. I already am that and more--- and I’m sure others will be, too! Once all is known… Paraphrasing Agravaine: “… he was lying!” But, “I (never) knew he was lying!”
I thought Series 4 was brilliant overall. I can sympathise that the finale fell a bit short of expectations, it was similar to the plot stages in 'the coming of Arthur' and slow motion action was overused. I still think the moment when Arthur was doubting himself was an ideal opportunity for Merlin to reveal himself but I can understand why they may wish to make a row between them, which would have been difficult to fit in that last episode. Nevertheless it wasn't a bad episode at all, to be honest it was one of the best things I watched on TV with the family at Christmas and certainly was better than the Doctor Who Christmas special. I find with a light-hearted show like Merlin, its best not to judge it according to an expectation and just to keep an open mind and enjoy it for what it is. Just out of interest. what were your hopes for Merlin to be at this stage?
It all has to do with the betrayal toward the fans by “the powers that be” (TPTB) and their accomplices (the actors and others involved in their “joke” on “stupid merkins”) as sinjoorke explained. To be honest, I can see the writers taking that attitude--- which would be bad and unfortunate--- but NOT the directors or producers.
I'm not sure if you understand how this show works. The writers have little to no power in this sort of thing - they write what they're told to, following a brief given to them by show runners/producers aka. Murphy and Capps... The writers aren't 'betraying' anyone and it's rather entitled to suggest that they're doing so because they don't do precisely what the fans want. You can't write based upon a democracy because that doesn't make a good story and because there'll be a big proportion of fans that you won't satisfy.
No show I know of it written by committee based on fan suggestion. That's a far different thing from doing a preview screening of a film!
Both Morgana and Morgause are daughters of the Hourse of Gorlois but Gorlois CAN NOT be the biological father of either Morgana or Morgause as S02 indicated, still they are sisters and by S03, Uther is Morgana’s father but Gorlois is NOT Morgause’s biologic father.
Their parentage is a tricky issue BUT the heavy implication is that they are both daughters of Vivienne, Morgause is Gorlois daughter and Morgana is Uther's. There is an issue with the fact that Gaius shouldn't have known they were half sister's in series 2. But also, we don't know when they decided to make Morgana Uther's daughter. It seems very much like they hadn't decided to do that during series 1 so...
There is an issue with the fact that Gaius shouldn't have known they were half sister's in series 2.
I've always just took it that they used sister as a simplification instead of saying half-sister or anything similar. I think it's fairly clear Vivienne is their mother and Gorlois is Morgause's father and Uther is Morgana's.
Comments
I think the BBC will also be happy to keep it considering the good ratings and publicity it gets for the channel. Also, it does seem that they're trying to keep the costs down this year what with the loss of one French filming block for a start.
I really like the idea of specials, I enjoy the DW ones a lot because they are longer than an average ep and aren't necessarily constrained by episode story arcs.
I think going to a different production company is normally a double edged sword. Both Primeval and Torchwood dipped in quality, despite the wonderful gift of more money! Definitely better to see Merlin finish than pass from company to company until it's both unrecognisable and rubbish!
Incidentally, being too thrifty to pay for sky, I still haven't seen the last series of primeval and I've forgotten what happened before!
I love the castle in France but if they have to film the whole thing in a quarry in Wales I wouldn't care! I expect the cast would have something to say though
I think the not going to France is more to do with they have the sets in studio now so there is no need to transport everything over there. Also I think theres alot more outside the castle stuff this year.. as there was more outside the castle stuff in series 4 compared the first 3 series.
Yes indeed that quarry is nasty, cold, wet, windy.. yuck!!
But that IS the foundation of the Monomyth. It was a marriage of psychoanalytic theory applied to good story telling! And, what it told those who saw it was that when properly understood, the story of the Hero's Journey did not change over the ages, but the Hero did.
Actually, there is. People in what used to be called "Ethics and Moral Philosophy" which studied human behavior and motivation shifted their emphasis years ago from "how people should act" to "why do people act" as they do. Fields like economics, sociology, psychology, etc in the Liberal Arts developed and those areas of study took the themes in the Monomyth and applied it to real world concerns.
For instance, Pearson's work on behavior and motivation resulted in archetypal "Questing Heroes" whose archetypes are now used in branding and marketing products, companies, personalities, and movies... and television shows like Merlin. The experience over the years has been that those that followed the Monomyth or at least sold people on the archetypes in the Monomyth tended to do better than those that did not. And, in general, the writers since the mid-1990s trended toward using the Monomyth as a template.
Some moreso than others. Without being involved with the show, we cannot know the exact specifics of any show but the various twist and turns of the Hero's Journey can give the viewers expectations of what to expect along that Journey. And which course that Journey takes becomes more likely depending on the climate of the times and a knowledge of the Hero(es).
The SHINE discussion fits in nicely. Based on the earlier hints in 11/2012 of Merlin going to S06 and beyond, it seemed that Merlin was all set. Then, I saw S04E13--- it was a good episode but not what I'd expect and it felt flat. The Monomyth gave me an objective socio-economic model company execs love to explain success and failures and the the relatively poor showing which projected into ratings. Then, I saw the ratings which were good but not great.
Not long after, I saw the SHINE/Freemantle were asking for ideas for S05 and beyond. The feeling I got from those events was that the ratings for S04E13 weren't nearly as good as what people expected. Suddenly, Merlin didn't seem to be all set for S06 and a couple weeks later, talk of S06 didn't seem so likely after all. Now, it seems that S05 would be the last.
The Monomyth when used properly should provide solutions to "fix" that. And, some of those things I see happening now based on the spoilers.
As far as I'm aware they havn't ruled out the possibility of a Merlin film yet.
So do I, there are plenty of tales they can use from the legends. My ideal ending if S5 is the last would be for Merlin to reveal his magic mid-series so we can see Merlin finally in his destined role for at least more than one episode. Its quite possible this could happen as if there is a row between them as Morgan implies, they're not going to put the reveal right at the end when the future of the show is uncertain. Once everything is in place, it still will be enjoyable to watch, especially because there is still that unusual dynamic between a young Merlin and Arthur that is very different from the legends. Furthermore, I needn't point out that Merlin has a distinct universe of its own with the tales in a different order, we may know that Arthur will be mortally wounded by Mordred but what of the epic story in prior to that which will be different in its nature to the legends we have all read. I can quite happily continue watching the show, there's no sign of exhaustion and it just keeps getting better.
Which audience figures are you talking about? In the UK Merlin achieved 8.18 million viewers which is the highest in the shows history. The figures in the US are far behind those of Britain.
Yup. But I suppose it does save a bit as well so it's win win really
And yes, the finale of Merlin did excellently in the ratings - in a week that included Christmas it was the 6th best rated show on the BBC. The week before that it was third (behind Strictly and Eastenders). It's series average was only a tiny bit below (0.3m) Doctor Who's.
FYI Sword in the Stone Part 2 got a consolidated rating of 8.18 million viewers with a AI of 90 which is in fact the 2nd highest rating Merlin ever got. Only Sword in the Stone Part 1 rated higher with 8.38m - AI 90. On top that Ep 413 got 550.000 views/downloads on iPlayer. Not exactly a failure is it.
The fact that the tptb asked for suggestions on fb/twitter is a joke. They have effectively shut down all crew twitters, Eoin has had his little booty kicked twice now for putting info/pics on twitter that he shouldn't have, there are no spoilers out there, PF filming and photo/spoiler opportunities are kept to a minimum. TPTB asking fans for "ideas" for future scripts/story lines is laughable. It's a way of keeping the stupid "merkins" involved while Merlin Official is the shittiest official website in the history of official websites and the only thing they are giving us are S4 pics and a load of BS. Of course they will mention S6 in interviews, give the BBC a hint that they are ready if/when they want to order it.
S6 re-commissioning will depend on money available, scheduling time and in a small part ratings. And no matter how much I may enjoy the discussions/arguments around here (while lurking) the Monomyth theory has little to do with it. Merlin is no Game of Thrones or The Wire or any other adult drama out there . Like Robin Hood before and Dr.Who now it's a Saturday night tea-time family show with a little a bit of drama, a little bit of comedy, some romance, some (sword) fights and in Merlin's case magic to amuse a family audience aged 8 to 80 years old shown between a celebrity dancing show and a lottery quiz. Don't look for more behind it or you'll end up with major disappointment.
More outside the castle stuff means less Gwen and less Gaius which is a disappointment.
Depends on how you judge success. Usually, people look for trends and the projected numbers for any concluding episode MUST be higher. That would have suggested a growth in the audience, pulling people into the show; instead, it wasn’t. It was a peak and plateau at best if not a decline.
I didn’t know about Twitter. I just saw it on a Merlin site I visited. For those who don’t know, this was all a hoax then: "If you love all things Merlin and would be happy to be interviewed, or would like to find out more please email info@shine.tv with subject header ‘Merlin Fan’(by midday Friday 13th January)." You can see it here:
https://www.facebook.com/MerlinOfficial/posts/337213052964986
And, some people were actually “interviewed” which amounted to a question being asked including the possibility of Pendragon babies. The answer was no.
So then, they really are disrespecting the fans because...
I guess that's the difference between US and British Television. In the US, ratings = advertisers, advertisers = money, and money = continuation. The networks, cable stations, public broadcast networks, etc. do programming and counter-programming as a result and that's why certain shows get cancelled while some lesser shows continue. It has to do with a concept called "marketing and branding" because that can attract viewers making the difference between continuation or cancellation.
Yes, but Merlin was never intended to be. Star Wars is no Citizen Kane but ask George Lucas, and he can and has pointed out how the Monomyth is in both films. Besides, not all the things people sent in to FB/Twitter are on that site. In there are other boards besides those were ideas were posted. And, some sent suggestions in using postal and email.
Frankly, I hope they kick him to the moon! I actually believed the guy when he said in an interview that TPTB actually listened to their fans and if enough fans wanted to see something happen like the knights (or Merlin) have a love interest, then TPTB would consider it if there were good reasons and if they could see it fit in with the rest of the series. And, those others playing the likes of Leon and Percival and Elyan were backing Gwaine up! I’ll bet they were even lying about being on social media, too!
But, all they were doing was disrespecting us…
Disappointed? That’s a joke. I already am that and more--- and I’m sure others will be, too! Once all is known… Paraphrasing Agravaine: “… he was lying!” But, “I (never) knew he was lying!”
Before filming, some fans sent lists in via email and regular mail with ideas largely based on the Monomyth (19 of 20) contributed by someone. Based on the spoilers, there was every indication they might come true in S05! So, I am truly disappointed to find that all this is a lie from the very beginning!
1. a snowy episode of Merlin (change of scene from the usual cave or belly of the whale convention on this show)
2. Gwen Quest based on a Heroine's Journey
3. Morgana Quest based on a Heroine's Journey
4. Merlin Quests with the KORT to develop their characters
5. Merlin becoming even Darker and gaining in power and mastery of magic being tempted but not becoming EVIL
6. Aithusa being a servant of the Triple Goddess and serving Morgana allied with a Saxon force to help bring about Albion.
7. Merlin meeting others from legends or people based on them.
8. Redemptive arcs for Uther, Lancelot, Morgana, and Gwen
9. Queen Annis calling in a favor from Arthur because invaders under the control of Morgana/Mordred threaten Caerleon
10. Bayard or Lot or another king invoking the treaties signed by Uther to force Arthur alliance against invaders
11. The need for the kingdoms to unite under one leader against a common foe
12. Merlin locked in battle with aspects of the Triple Goddess --- the Maid, the Mother, the Crone--- prevailing and emerging as the great sorcercer
13. Arthur finding out early that Merlin had magic but Merlin wasn’t aware of it!
14. Arthur having to gain Merlin’s trust, learning Merlin’s value to Camelot, and appreciating him for it
15. Merlin going on Quests with or without Arthur to obtain magic and magical weapons for his battle
16. Merlin meets his Nemesis--- a player on the other side who shares the same background, skill, power, and knowledge as Merlin, with the same goals, but a different means to accomplish them.
17. Arthur meets his Nemesis--- a king and warrior who is like Arthur but opposes him
18. Merlin and/or Arthur creating challenges and tests for future generations of kings and knights
What won't be seen:
19. A love interest for Merlin or for the knights.
20. A Merlin Musical because Angel Coulby is the only one who can carry a tune. (*)
*- Non-Monomyth but it seemed like a nice idea for a charity show.
Oh, and I hope they REALLY punish this guy and throw him off the show for posting the “PF filming dates”!!! Paraphrasing Agravaine, again: “… he was lying!” But, “I (never) knew he was lying!”
It’s in French but it supposedly gives the dates:
Voici les dates du tournage de la saison 5 de Merlin en France, provenance de l'Office de Tourisme de Pierrefonds :
Premère sessions du 14/06/2012 au 27/06/2012
Deuxième sessions du 06/09/2012 au 14/09/2012
sous réserve de modifications.
Il semblerait que le tournage ne compte que deux sessions cette année, la session mars-avril ne figure pas en tête de liste ...
I should have known! There are only 12 months in a year; not 27
Guys like this come across as being nice, friendly sorts when they’re really nothing but phonies. I know some people who actually made vacation plans for those dates. I know I’d be canceling!
It’s not that I, or anyone hated the show. To the contrary, some of us liked it but just thought it could be better… raising it up a level and transforming it from a good to a memorable viewing experience. That’s what Christopher Vogel’s original purpose for the MONOMYTH was intended: to guide the writer to graft or prune their story to give the audience a memorable experience!
Applying those principles, some very minor things could and should have been done to elevate the show--- often just a sentence or expression. And some of us even went so far as to create BOOK(s) of MERLIN 2 and 3--- meaning potential story lines of episodes for up to 10 years--- all for fun… and, all for free! But, I see the error of my ways. You get what you pay for… I and others have been played for fools. Alas but nothing lost except for innocence as they say
Thanks Sinjoorke, you’ve done a great service for us all.
Sorry but that is just nonsense in rating terms. A show has to hit the ground running and not lose too much of its audience. It needs to keep steady or make a gradual growth but no on expects a 4 year old TV series to continually be getting more viewers. 8m+ is excellent for a UK drama.
Er....you do know that Pierrefond themselves always give the dates out, yes? They put it on their own website to tell their visitors that access to parts of the castle/grounds may be restricted on those dates. It's hardly a secret! Of course, the dates have and will change (they have in the past too) because schedules change!
Not necessarily..
The Powers That Be - in other words the show runners/producers.
And don't feel daft, we all have to learn this lingo somewhere. Personally I don't think Mike's post was best expressed - it was unclear what he was trying to say in many parts of it so it wasn't just you.
I didn't mean to belittle you Mike, but you seemed quite angry by the end, and I can't understand why (though I felt quite angry earlier reading about how the BBC had nearly dumped Merlin after series 2 and it was only saved by Freemantle. It is so sad that the BBC haven't recognised the little nugget they have in Merlin.)
So would I, but it wouldn't be "Merlin" if you see what I mean, it would just be random generic fantasy adventure show. The reason it works so well, imho, is because they are twisting the stories that lots of viewers are familiar with.
There's no way they're going to get a feature film out of Merlin. Much as I love this show there simply isn't the funding available nor the big names/cast to generate that funding.
You might get an hour-and-a-half TV special but it ain't going to be going into cinemas in the UK, I'd put money on that.
As for the other part of your quote, I suspect that will be what happens if they go down that road. It wouldn't be the very last episode of the series and everyone left hanging, they'd do like they did with Season 10 of Smallville and do the reveal with about four or five episodes left for the "regulars" to come to terms with finding out.
Which is what I've been pretty much also saying for pages and pages until I promised Ip229 I'd shut up
You're not stupid Avi so don't worry.
I would agree, the gist of it seemed to be fans on various sites sent in ideas based on the monomyth theory and are also thinking they've been hoodwinked by Eoin and other members of the cast not actually having any influence on what goes on in the show. Or that's what it seems like to me.
I suspect a lot of Mike's post's issues are to do with the difference between US and UK television as theirs is all utterly dependent on ad revenue and ratings whereas ours here, especially the BBC, has completely different criterion to fulfill. While Merlin continues to hit the Saturday night demographic it's aimed at then there is a very high chance there will be a sixth series.
Yeah I think that money is an issue but also if the BBC isn't fully paying for it anyway then that actually negates a lot of that. And whilst it is still rating well and fulfilling is remit then I can see them still wanting it.
The Series 4 finale exceeded expectations, ep13 had 0.5 million more viewers than the latest finale of Doctor Who, and the highest audience Appreciation Index among all BBC shows in the Christmas period.
As I said I'm quite optimistic about the possibility of a sixth series. Merlin is an expensive show, but the costs are split between the BBC and Fremantle, so the budget cuts must have less effect on it. Let's not forget, they've just upgraded the show to 35mm film, the most expensive (and the finest) format! In fact Merlin is the only BBC drama shot on 35mm film.
As far as I know Merlin - sold to 180 countries - is the most successful drama of FremantleMedia Enterprises (have a look on their website
If I'm not mistaken, Merlin is the only drama produced by Shine at the moment (Spooks has ended last year), so they will support it as much as they can.
And the most important fact: Merlin is one of the most successful dramas of the BBC and their well-tried "weapon" against The X-Factor. It provides strong ratings for 13 weeks opposite the biggest show on UK television.
In addition Merlin's production is very organized and stable, they have never run out of money or the schedule, and are always ready to be aired in the Autumn. You can't say the same about DW which is reported to be a bit of a mess in the last couple of years and has a very uncertain schedule.
I think there are grounds for optimism.
I completely understand what you are saying and I feel the same, I just wouldn't want the show to end purely because they felt the legends had been covered before.
I'm still holding out hope for a film but I do think it's very very unlikely and the producers are likely just stringing us on! Besides, the latest "news" on the film I could find was from about October last year. I think it would work very well as a 90 minute special and IMO it would be a nice way to continue the story every couple of years after it's officially finished.
Excellent diagram! It does also put into perspective why the BBC considered dropping it after series 2, I think I might have as well (if ratings were the only factor, which I'm sure they're not)!
Thanks for some optimism to brighten up the thread
It all has to do with the betrayal toward the fans by “the powers that be” (TPTB) and their accomplices (the actors and others involved in their “joke” on “stupid merkins”) as sinjoorke explained. To be honest, I can see the writers taking that attitude--- which would be bad and unfortunate--- but NOT the directors or producers.
Much worse is the attitude of complete and utter disdain by TPTB (and those the enlisted) toward the fans such activity reveals. As sinjoorke pointed out "(i)t's only a way of keeping the stupid 'merkins' involved while Merlin Official is the shittiest official website in the history of official websites..." And when production companies enlist the aid of others on the show to further that “joke” (like the Eoin incident with the others suggesting that TPTB actually listen to the fans of the show), it merely highlights their disdain by playing the fans as fools.
And THAT disrespect for the fans is what angers me.
And if I saw that diagram, I'd be concerned that the show's lost viewership and I'd want to know why that was so that the show could be continually improved. Because you’re seeing a declining growth curve much as you did in season 1.
It’s quite reasonable to dump Merlin based on the graph: despite the absolute high numbers, the relative decrease is cause for concern. But, what give it hope is the rate of growth at the end of S02.
True. But, unfortunately, the growth response of the show wasn’t what it should have been in S01 or in S04. While it is true that Merlin’s achieved some commercial success, the financial backers (we used to call them “angels”) have to make a decision: 1) cancel the show and rake in the profits (or cutting any losses before they become too high) or 2) continue the show and take a chance that a show that appears to be in decline might turn things around. BBC kept things going until S02 and would have been justified to cut its losses based on the showing to cancel but the fact that the show rose would argue for continuation; it's a gamble but Freemantle gambled and won.
But will they do so again? The rational way to try to maximize success in continuing the show would be to do what SHINE/FREEMANTLE seemed to be doing. The production company could either 1) hire consultants who in turn will conduct research samples who will ask fans which costs money as an indirect method of finding out what the fans want OR 2) ask the fans directly: what is it that you like about Merlin, what do you want to see, how did the show affect you, etc. the sort of things it wanted to know on its site.
Because if that were me, I'd take those ideas and see if they could be worked into the show. It's a common practice among film makers who can afford it to hold pre-screenings for a test audience to test pilot a film or television series and take opinion polls. So, even if people like the showing, TPTB will still try and improve the product. But, that’s the difference between British and American ways of doing things, I guess…
However, there’s a promise inherent in their appeal to fans: TPTB will listen to what the fans want and if it can be worked out then that’s what the fans will see in one form or another. That’s also the same message the actors on the show gave to various fans at various interviews and conventions. The 20 or so things in the spoiler list were based on the MONOMYTH and it seemed TPTB to look upon them favorably based on the spoilery things out there. But as sinjoorke notes was all a “joke” on the fans!
THAT is a monumental betrayal to the FANS who wanted the show to be a success. The fact is, some fans didn’t care too much about Merlin’s reveal but they did want Arthur to find out before the series ended with or without Merlin’s knowledge. That way Arthur wouldn’t seem so “dim.” Others wanted to see the Morgana-Morgause Paradox solved: Both Morgana and Morgause are daughters of the Hourse of Gorlois but Gorlois CAN NOT be the biological father of either Morgana or Morgause as S02 indicated, still they are sisters and by S03, Uther is Morgana’s father but Gorlois is NOT Morgause’s biologic father. So, they wanted to see in S05, either Gorlois or Vivienne appear to explain that one. But, most wanted the Gwen-Lancelot Problem explained: How does Merlin convince Arthur that Magic can be a force for good when Arthur’s seen all that’s bad occur and if/when the magic bracelet thing gets revealed will Arthur ever be convinced that magic is not pure evil when it nearly ruined his life? The answer: Gwen’s Quest for redemption.
According to sinjoorke, "TPTB asking fans for 'ideas' for future scripts/story lines is laughable," and when it appeared they had--- not scripts, just story lines--- it was nothing more than a "joke." In other words, TPTB disrespected the fans of the show. When it seemed that SHINE/FREEMANTLE had been trying to improve its production by giving the fans what they wanted so that viewership would grow, TPTB lied because TPTB failed to and never intended to act in good faith on its part because to them they made it a “joke”. AND if that’s what the show’s about then I don’t see it lasting very long.
How are you coming to this conclusion?
I'm really sorry but I cannot believe anyone took that to be anything other than PR. Perhaps it's because you're American and this is a British show but it's one method of gaining publicity and generating discussion about a show. I don't think there's anyone I know who would seriously think a TV company was asking people for things they were going to actually follow up on. It's a method of keeping fans' interested that's all.
And, again, I think the fact you don't seem to understand how British TV works is what's giving you this impression. All Merlin needs to do, to meet the viewing criteron for the BBC, is draw in a reasonable audience in the Saturday early evening slot. It doesn't need to sell well or beat anything else, it's a publicly funded channel.
Unlike America, the BBC doesn't need to have focus panels, AI ratings or draw in advertising, the money for it is always there. If the BBC wants Merlin, it will commission Merlin irrespective of whether Freemantle's making money on it. The amount per episode for the slot Merlin sits is price targeted up to £285k per hour if it comes under the entertainment slot, and it's prices targeted between £600k - £800k per hour if it's counted as a drama.
The brief for BBC One's Saturday night slot is - and Merlin meets that criterion without any problems.
While Merlin makes money for Freemantle on DVD and sales of the rights to broadcast abroad, they'll continue making it available for the BBC. The BBC is a not for profit organisation which doesn't have to "sell" anything. The only thing likely to decide whether the BBC fails to commission another series of Merlin is if they either conclude the story in series five, or the BBC is offered another show that they think will fit into the 8 to 9pm time slot to go out after Strictly Come Dancing.
Merlin draws in a high audience share on a Saturday night and, as has been pointed out, beat Doctor Who in the same time slot for series four.
The new BBC family show 'the Musketeers' is due for 2014 apparently, so there's no reason to believe at the moment why the BBC will not commission a 6th series of Merlin.
I thought Series 4 was brilliant overall. I can sympathise that the finale fell a bit short of expectations, it was similar to the plot stages in 'the coming of Arthur' and slow motion action was overused. I still think the moment when Arthur was doubting himself was an ideal opportunity for Merlin to reveal himself but I can understand why they may wish to make a row between them, which would have been difficult to fit in that last episode. Nevertheless it wasn't a bad episode at all, to be honest it was one of the best things I watched on TV with the family at Christmas and certainly was better than the Doctor Who Christmas special. I find with a light-hearted show like Merlin, its best not to judge it according to an expectation and just to keep an open mind and enjoy it for what it is. Just out of interest. what were your hopes for Merlin to be at this stage?
I'm not sure if you understand how this show works. The writers have little to no power in this sort of thing - they write what they're told to, following a brief given to them by show runners/producers aka. Murphy and Capps... The writers aren't 'betraying' anyone and it's rather entitled to suggest that they're doing so because they don't do precisely what the fans want. You can't write based upon a democracy because that doesn't make a good story and because there'll be a big proportion of fans that you won't satisfy.
No show I know of it written by committee based on fan suggestion. That's a far different thing from doing a preview screening of a film!
Their parentage is a tricky issue BUT the heavy implication is that they are both daughters of Vivienne, Morgause is Gorlois daughter and Morgana is Uther's. There is an issue with the fact that Gaius shouldn't have known they were half sister's in series 2. But also, we don't know when they decided to make Morgana Uther's daughter. It seems very much like they hadn't decided to do that during series 1 so...
I've always just took it that they used sister as a simplification instead of saying half-sister or anything similar. I think it's fairly clear Vivienne is their mother and Gorlois is Morgause's father and Uther is Morgana's.