Others I will add are Otis Redding (I forget how early he was into his career when he died, thanks to his extensive discography) and Sam Cooke (who would have gone on to become a grand old man of Soul, I think)
have to disagree with the view Amy Winehouse was at her peak when she died in 2011. Sadly alcohol and drugs had taken her toll upto then and in her final years she was more infamous, for her shambolic live performances under the influence behaviour. I agree she had a lot more to give, but for me the circa-2006 Amy was her at her peak....5 years before she died. This is the Amy i prefer to remember
Similarly Freddie Mercury. His best work was late 70s and very early 80s. After 'Hot Space' I think Queen declined critically (most Queen fans put their mid to late 80s albums to the bottom end of the 'best' albums list), and from the mid 80s their US sales dried up, again I think Freddie had a lot more to give but he peaked just over a decade before he died IMO.
Then again I do recall interviews in which he said 'Barcelona' (his 1988 solo album) was the record he always wanted to make. Even if that album wasn't commercially/critically successful as his Queen work, from his point of view he would probably say he went out not long after reaching his personal peak
Would agree with Heath Ledger and Kurt Cobain though
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Then again I do recall interviews in which he said 'Barcelona' (his 1988 solo album) was the record he always wanted to make. Even if that album wasn't commercially/critically successful as his Queen work, from his point of view he would probably say he went out not long after reaching his personal peak
His personal peak would have been a full scale opera stage show that he produced and took part in. Something he never had the time to do really. But if you watch the performances with Montserrat Caballé such as this one:
You can see how amazing it would have been. Imagine him performing like that in front of a full size opera house. He would have been in his element. I think he would have brought opera to the masses in a way we've not really seen. Sadly he ran out of time, but thankfully he got to work with Monte.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. She was clean of drugs and had given up drinking apart from the binge that killed her... I do think she was on the 'up' - at least from where she was anyway.
Ignoring the little matter of the alcohol and that horrible performance a few days before she died of course.
Just swapping one addiction for another. If Amy hadn't have died that week it would have been the next week or the next or a month later or a month after that.
Plus the damage she had already caused to herself was probably irreparable - listen to Whitney's voice for example.
have to disagree with the view Amy Winehouse was at her peak when she died in 2011. Sadly alcohol and drugs had taken her toll upto then and in her final years she was more infamous, for her shambolic live performances under the influence behaviour. I agree she had a lot more to give, but for me the circa-2006 Amy was her at her peak....5 years before she died. This is the Amy i prefer to remember
Similarly Freddie Mercury. His best work was late 70s and very early 80s. After 'Hot Space' I think Queen declined critically (most Queen fans put their mid to late 80s albums to the bottom end of the 'best' albums list), and from the mid 80s their US sales dried up, again I think Freddie had a lot more to give but he peaked just over a decade before he died IMO.
Then again I do recall interviews in which he said 'Barcelona' (his 1988 solo album) was the record he always wanted to make. Even if that album wasn't commercially/critically successful as his Queen work, from his point of view he would probably say he went out not long after reaching his personal peak
Would agree with Heath Ledger and Kurt Cobain though
To be honest after A Kind Of Magic album, Queen seemed to hit their form again with The Miracle and Innuendo. I really liked the Barcelona album even though I don't listen to Pop Opera that much. I would have liked Freddie to have done more Opera as it would have been great, but as you said his time had ran out.
have to disagree with the view Amy Winehouse was at her peak when she died in 2011. Sadly alcohol and drugs had taken her toll upto then and in her final years she was more infamous, for her shambolic live performances under the influence behaviour. I agree she had a lot more to give, but for me the circa-2006 Amy was her at her peak....5 years before she died. This is the Amy i prefer to remember
Similarly Freddie Mercury. His best work was late 70s and very early 80s. After 'Hot Space' I think Queen declined critically (most Queen fans put their mid to late 80s albums to the bottom end of the 'best' albums list), and from the mid 80s their US sales dried up, again I think Freddie had a lot more to give but he peaked just over a decade before he died IMO.
Then again I do recall interviews in which he said 'Barcelona' (his 1988 solo album) was the record he always wanted to make. Even if that album wasn't commercially/critically successful as his Queen work, from his point of view he would probably say he went out not long after reaching his personal peak
Would agree with Heath Ledger and Kurt Cobain though
You make valid points regarding Amy Winehouse and Freddie Mercury .... but then you negate it by mentioning Kurt Cobain.
In the last months of his life Kurt Cobain was spiralling as fast as an express train towards the end of his mortal coil.
From July 1993 Courtney Love or other within the entourage were regularly injecting Kurt with Narcan to bring him out of a semi unconscious/drugged up state so he was fit enough to perform on their US tour.
The band reconvened for three weeks in January 1994 for a songwriting/recording session for tracks for their 4th album, but Kurt was not in the right creative mind to be of much benefit with only the unfocussed intense "You Know You're Right" surviving those sessions.
His increasing Heroin intake was rapidly breaking his immune system down so by March 1994 he was diagnosed with bronchitis and severe laryngitis. Whilst in Rome he took as a substitute for Heroin a combination of champagne and Rohypnol resulting in him OD'ing. There is speculation to this day that this event left him brain damaged.
After flying back to the USA with Nirvana's US tour aborted Kurt was admitted to Exodus Recovery Center in Los Angeles, California on March 30, 1994 to detox. But a day or so later he jumped over the six foot fence and went back to Seattle where he was found dead a week later.
You make valid points regarding Amy Winehouse and Freddie Mercury .... but then you negate it by mentioning Kurt Cobain.
In the last months of his life Kurt Cobain was spiralling as fast as an express train towards the end of his mortal coil.
From July 1993 Courtney Love or other within the entourage were regularly injecting Kurt with Narcan to bring him out of a semi unconscious/drugged up state so he was fit enough to perform on their US tour.
The band reconvened for three weeks in January 1994 for a songwriting/recording session for tracks for their 4th album, but Kurt was not in the right creative mind to be of much benefit with only the unfocussed intense "You Know You're Right" surviving those sessions.
His increasing Heroin intake was rapidly breaking his immune system down so by March 1994 he was diagnosed with bronchitis and severe laryngitis. Whilst in Rome he took as a substitute for Heroin a combination of champagne and Rohypnol resulting in him OD'ing. There is speculation to this day that this event left him brain damaged.
After flying back to the USA with Nirvana's US tour aborted Kurt was admitted to Exodus Recovery Center in Los Angeles, California on March 30, 1994 to detox. But a day or so later he jumped over the six foot fence and went back to Seattle where he was found dead a week later.
Disagree. In Utero was released late 1993, whereas Cobain died early 1994...a relatively short period after. He also recorded the celebrated MTV Unplugged right at the end of 93.
I think In Utero is a better album than Nevermind IMO It's certainly more grown up and darker. As his death was in relatively close to In Utero's release & recording of MTV unplugged, in my mind thats close enough to still be regarded in his peak. He recorded the MTV Live n' loud special in december '93 and that was awesome!
In all honesty this whole 'peak thing' is largely subjective.
I like to think Marilyn Monroe would've had a career lull (she was having work troubles just before she died), but would've picked up again in the 70s - maybe with serious roles, comedy parts in the more naturalistic comedies that came along (which would've suited her) or maybe with TV stuff (imagine her in Dallas or Dynasty).
Disagree. In Utero was released late 1993, whereas Cobain died early 1994...a relatively short period after. He also recorded the celebrated MTV Unplugged right at the end of 93.
I think In Utero is a better album than Nevermind IMO It's certainly more grown up and darker. As his death was in relatively close to In Utero's release & recording of MTV unplugged, in my mind thats close enough to still be regarded in his peak. He recorded the MTV Live n' loud special in december '93 and that was awesome!
In all honesty this whole 'peak thing' is largely subjective.
My point was had he lived like Amy Winehouse I strongly believe he would have been incapable of coming close to the work he had previously produced as he had arguably destroyed himself creatively like musicians Syd Barratt; Peter Green; Roky Erickson; Sly Stone; etc via a combination of chemical substance abuse & mental health problems.
Hence he was rapidly descending from his peak (like a mountaineer falling down a Himalayas mountain) when he died.
Comments
I remember Dustin Gee. Brilliantly funny, talented man. Was very shocked at his sudden death
Also:
Natasha Richardson
Freddie Mercury
Ritchie Valens
Can't imagine Jim and Janis old now. I look at Grace Slick, a fine beauty, who has now aged and by her own admission is "too fat to rock now"
Another name which hasn't been mentioned?
Sharon Tate
What makes Sharon Tate's death all the more tragic was that she was seven months pregnant when she was murdered
Jimi Hendrix
Brian Jones
Marc Bolan
And the lead guitarist from Free cant quite rememebr his name, died to young from a drug OD and a brillant musician.
Paul Kossoff.
Murdered by Charles Manson.
Similarly Freddie Mercury. His best work was late 70s and very early 80s. After 'Hot Space' I think Queen declined critically (most Queen fans put their mid to late 80s albums to the bottom end of the 'best' albums list), and from the mid 80s their US sales dried up, again I think Freddie had a lot more to give but he peaked just over a decade before he died IMO.
Then again I do recall interviews in which he said 'Barcelona' (his 1988 solo album) was the record he always wanted to make. Even if that album wasn't commercially/critically successful as his Queen work, from his point of view he would probably say he went out not long after reaching his personal peak
Would agree with Heath Ledger and Kurt Cobain though
His personal peak would have been a full scale opera stage show that he produced and took part in. Something he never had the time to do really. But if you watch the performances with Montserrat Caballé such as this one:
http://youtu.be/OPizyP4x30I
http://youtu.be/ksNoe8W2jTc
You can see how amazing it would have been. Imagine him performing like that in front of a full size opera house. He would have been in his element. I think he would have brought opera to the masses in a way we've not really seen. Sadly he ran out of time, but thankfully he got to work with Monte.
Anyway this isn't a FM thread so i'll stop there.
It has, Hound Of Love mentioned her in post #18.
Ignoring the little matter of the alcohol and that horrible performance a few days before she died of course.
Just swapping one addiction for another. If Amy hadn't have died that week it would have been the next week or the next or a month later or a month after that.
Plus the damage she had already caused to herself was probably irreparable - listen to Whitney's voice for example.
To be honest after A Kind Of Magic album, Queen seemed to hit their form again with The Miracle and Innuendo. I really liked the Barcelona album even though I don't listen to Pop Opera that much. I would have liked Freddie to have done more Opera as it would have been great, but as you said his time had ran out.
You make valid points regarding Amy Winehouse and Freddie Mercury .... but then you negate it by mentioning Kurt Cobain.
In the last months of his life Kurt Cobain was spiralling as fast as an express train towards the end of his mortal coil.
From July 1993 Courtney Love or other within the entourage were regularly injecting Kurt with Narcan to bring him out of a semi unconscious/drugged up state so he was fit enough to perform on their US tour.
The band reconvened for three weeks in January 1994 for a songwriting/recording session for tracks for their 4th album, but Kurt was not in the right creative mind to be of much benefit with only the unfocussed intense "You Know You're Right" surviving those sessions.
His increasing Heroin intake was rapidly breaking his immune system down so by March 1994 he was diagnosed with bronchitis and severe laryngitis. Whilst in Rome he took as a substitute for Heroin a combination of champagne and Rohypnol resulting in him OD'ing. There is speculation to this day that this event left him brain damaged.
After flying back to the USA with Nirvana's US tour aborted Kurt was admitted to Exodus Recovery Center in Los Angeles, California on March 30, 1994 to detox. But a day or so later he jumped over the six foot fence and went back to Seattle where he was found dead a week later.
Disagree. In Utero was released late 1993, whereas Cobain died early 1994...a relatively short period after. He also recorded the celebrated MTV Unplugged right at the end of 93.
I think In Utero is a better album than Nevermind IMO It's certainly more grown up and darker. As his death was in relatively close to In Utero's release & recording of MTV unplugged, in my mind thats close enough to still be regarded in his peak. He recorded the MTV Live n' loud special in december '93 and that was awesome!
In all honesty this whole 'peak thing' is largely subjective.
My point was had he lived like Amy Winehouse I strongly believe he would have been incapable of coming close to the work he had previously produced as he had arguably destroyed himself creatively like musicians Syd Barratt; Peter Green; Roky Erickson; Sly Stone; etc via a combination of chemical substance abuse & mental health problems.
Hence he was rapidly descending from his peak (like a mountaineer falling down a Himalayas mountain) when he died.
John Candy
Brittany Murphy
River Phoenix
Amy Winehouse
Kurt Cobain