... I guess the next thing will be that a woman wouldn't be able to restrain / resist a man so it makes a male groping a female worse and your encounter becomes trivial,
Actually, I said "It doesn't make any difference to the seriousness of the offence though". So no, not trivial at all.
The reason I asked was that men who have been groped, mostly seem to regard it as no big deal (on here anyway), so I was wondering if that was because they knew they could physically stop it from going further. It's different when you know you can't because the offender is so much bigger & stronger.
But DLT didn't "touch someone in a sexual manner uninvited" initially.
The woman said (in court) that he put his hand on the bottom of her rib-cage first, which would normally be when you moved away, moved their hand or told them to shove off.
I imagine that a non-reaction to the first touch could be seen as an acceptance of what followed, especially as she claimed to have "frozen" for fifteen seconds?
I am very surprised that the jury were convinced of his unlawful intentions, especially as the victim had publicly stated that she wasn't sure if he had intended it or not.
And yet, as someone (relatively) in the public eye, she was comfortable repeating her story for many years to live audiences, journalists, and podcast listeners, all the time referring to her attacker by name. Given the fairly close-knit circles of both stand up and the BBC, it's little wonder that DLT started to acquire his 'reputation'...
On the one hand I do most definitely agree that unwanted groping is completely wrong - and that applied as much to the 1970's as now.
On the other hand, the punishment being dished out to the likes of DLT kind of seem - to me any way, and I accept I may be wrong - somewhat out of proportion to the initial crime. A 15 second grope in 1994 or whenever, now results in a protracted and draining court case, with a possible prison sentence at the end of it.
Whilst what DLT (specifically him) did, was totally reprehensible, immature and disrespectful, at the same time, it wasn't crime of the century, and were those women who got the 15 second grope, really damaged and traumatised beyond repair because of it ? I find it difficult to accept that they were.
It all seems slightly vindictive to me, as though some want to see him suffer really prolonged stress for silly mistakes made years ago.
Shoot me down in flames now if you want. I only ever give my honest thoughts on the matter in hand, and I know many really hate me for it.
Your post reflects what to me has become so terribly sad today where anyone daring to even murmer, mutter or give the remotest hint of an 'unpopular' opinion, does so in the fear of getting 'shot down in flame' as you aptly describe it.
How anyone in their right mind can justify dragging a person through an extremely long and costly Court process for a "crime" "committed" 20 years ago, i find quite staggering. At the time she was herself a 22 year old adult who as is now well known, later went on to actually capitalise by relaying this as part of her comic material to the paying public which caused much raucous laughter then and now.....makes me wonder not only about her real motive, but also at those people who now suddenly had a change of face and decided we mustn't laugh at the sex and filth she regaled her audience with, but must view her seriously.
I've read many varying views ranging from plain common sense logic to extreme fundamentalism with one post mentioning 'thankfully we've moved on from when women were referred to as dolly birds'.
Jesus God give me strength!
Hopefully come Friday real plain common sense logic will prevail over the loony lot fundamentalists and Mr Travis (or should i say Mr Griffin) will be given a community service order doing something of use to the public.....such as broadcasting radio shows to the public. Alternatively he could always decide on a change of career path......and become a Comedian telling dirty jokes about 'dolly birds'.
I've read many varying views ranging from plain common sense logic to extreme fundamentalism with one post mentioning 'thankfully we've moved on from when women were referred to as dolly birds'.
Jesus God give me strength!
The post you quote is referenced as an example of extreme fundamentalism, in your eyes?
Your post reflects what to me has become so terribly sad today where anyone daring to even murmer, mutter or give the remotest hint of an 'unpopular' opinion, does so in the fear of getting 'shot down in flame' as you aptly describe it.
How anyone in their right mind can justify dragging a person through an extremely long and costly Court process for a "crime" "committed" 20 years ago, i find quite staggering. At the time she was herself a 22 year old adult who as is now well known, later went on to actually capitalise by relaying this as part of her comic material to the paying public which caused much raucous laughter then and now.....makes me wonder not only about her real motive, but also at those people who now suddenly had a change of face and decided we mustn't laugh at the sex and filth she regaled her audience with, but must view her seriously.
I've read many varying views ranging from plain common sense logic to extreme fundamentalism with one post mentioning 'thankfully we've moved on from when women were referred to as dolly birds'.
Jesus God give me strength!
Hopefully come Friday real plain common sense logic will prevail over the loony lot fundamentalists and Mr Travis (or should i say Mr Griffin) will be given a community service order doing something of use to the public.....such as broadcasting radio shows to the public. Alternatively he could always decide on a change of career path......and become a Comedian telling dirty jokes about 'dolly birds'.
After all.....it seems to pay well.
Re BiB - I'm afraid its true. You only have to look at the abuse Andy Murray received on twitter for voting yes in the Scottish independence referendum to realise that. It honestly surprises me that people have got so much pent up emotional energy to expend, expressing such bitter hatred and venom at somebody else's point of view on an abstract issue.
Your post reflects what to me has become so terribly sad today where anyone daring to even murmer, mutter or give the remotest hint of an 'unpopular' opinion, does so in the fear of getting 'shot down in flame' as you aptly describe it.
How anyone in their right mind can justify dragging a person through an extremely long and costly Court process for a "crime" "committed" 20 years ago, i find quite staggering. At the time she was herself a 22 year old adult who as is now well known, later went on to actually capitalise by relaying this as part of her comic material to the paying public which caused much raucous laughter then and now.....makes me wonder not only about her real motive, but also at those people who now suddenly had a change of face and decided we mustn't laugh at the sex and filth she regaled her audience with, but must view her seriously.
I've read many varying views ranging from plain common sense logic to extreme fundamentalism with one post mentioning 'thankfully we've moved on from when women were referred to as dolly birds'.
Jesus God give me strength!
Hopefully come Friday real plain common sense logic will prevail over the loony lot fundamentalists and Mr Travis (or should i say Mr Griffin) will be given a community service order doing something of use to the public.....such as broadcasting radio shows to the public. Alternatively he could always decide on a change of career path......and become a Comedian telling dirty jokes about 'dolly birds'.
Re BiB - I'm afraid its true. You only have to look at the abuse Andy Murray received on twitter for voting yes in the Scottish independence referendum to realise that. It honestly surprises me that people have got so much pent up emotional energy to expend, expressing such bitter hatred and venom at somebody else's point of view on an abstract issue.
Quite frightening when you think about it.
I know it's true. I've witnessed and experienced it first hand on GD. Fortunately for me though long before coming to various Forums i had my 'Baptism of Fire' via unmoderated Newsgroups and some folk in DS wouldn't last much longer than a few hours on those!
O/T but relating to what you mention i see that youth who was a friend of the murdered couple in Thailand had to have his FB account blocked since some people found he'd had a past conviction for indecent images, so started bombarding his account with venom.
Hopefully come Friday real plain common sense logic will prevail over the loony lot fundamentalists and Mr Travis (or should i say Mr Griffin) will be given a community service order doing something of use to the public.....such as broadcasting radio shows to the public.
Well, hopefully not broadcasting, as that would be no punishment to him. Perhaps a spell as a litter collector in public might be a bit of a come-down for him and would serve the purpose instead of prison.
I know it's true. I've witnessed and experienced it first hand on GD. Fortunately for me though long before coming to various Forums i had my 'Baptism of Fire' via unmoderated Newsgroups and some folk in DS wouldn't last much longer than a few hours on those!
O/T but relating to what you mention i see that youth who was a friend of the murdered couple in Thailand had to have his FB account blocked since some people found he'd had a past conviction for indecent images, so started bombarding his account with venom.
Small minds = single minds = extremism.
There's no wiping the slate clean and making a fresh start these days. With social media a person's past will haunt them for evermore.
Truly the most annoying phrase posted on Digital Spy. Translation: 'look everyone, they think the same as me'.
Not necessarily. I have commented good post, excellent post or "quoted for truth", without further comment, in order to emphasise an (IMO) outstandingly good effort. I can't see what's wrong with that.
Not necessarily. I have commented good post, excellent post or "quoted for truth", without further comment, in order to emphasise an (IMO) outstandingly good effort. I can't see what's wrong with that.
Think you're being a bit precious, quite frankly.
So? Why out wanting to sound harsh, who cares if you think it's a good post?
By the same token, who cares if you find it annoying? <shrugs>
I don't know who cares, but they should. The standard of debate on this forum is going downhill fast without having to be confronted pathetic backslapping that contributes nothing whatsoever.
I don't know who cares, but they should. The standard of debate on this forum is going downhill fast without having to be confronted pathetic backslapping that contributes nothing whatsoever.
You could make a start on getting that quality average up then by contributing something to the thread other than a petulant snipe.
You could make a start on getting that quality average up then by contributing something to the thread other than a petulant snipe.
Meh, you say petulant, I wasn't looking at it that way.
Some general observations: I don't agree with posters who, whether they mean to or not, appear to be trivialising offences by saying we should be chasing after the 'real villains' such as child molesters. A crime is a crime. That said, for a case such as this to be taken on by the CPS, I wouldn't be surprised if the purpose was to deflect from more serious and powerful offenders. Must be the David Icke in me.
As for the attitude of, if someone gropes you just slap them, that's just laughable. It's not going to work for everyone. There's not a one size fits all, you don't suddenly get to 18 and become perfectly equipped to deal with sh*t like that.
Meh, you say petulant, I wasn't looking at it that way.
Some general observations: I don't agree with posters who, whether they mean to or not, appear to be trivialising offences by saying we should be chasing after the 'real villains' such as child molesters. A crime is a crime. That said, for a case such as this to be taken on by the CPS, I wouldn't be surprised if the purpose was to deflect from more serious and powerful offenders. Must be the David Icke in me.
As for the attitude of, if someone gropes you just slap them, that's just laughable. It's not going to work for everyone. There's not a one size fits all, you don't suddenly get to 18 and become perfectly equipped to deal with sh*t like that.
This girl was in her twenties and was not initially molested. It is strange that she didn't move away before his hand touched her breast, because it would normally be an instinctive reaction, but everyone is different.
I am not sure how a "molester" is supposed to tell the difference between the "victim" being "frozen" and allowing a (possibly?) "casting couch moment" to happen?
As for the attitude of, if someone gropes you just slap them, that's just laughable. It's not going to work for everyone. There's not a one size fits all, you don't suddenly get to 18 and become perfectly equipped to deal with sh*t like that.
Well you'd be right there.
If a bloke has a grope at a woman and she whacks him in the face, he's lucky because as we know the next stop will be the Court dock on charges of sexual assault.
If a woman has a grope at a bloke and he whacks her in the face, he'll end up with a Caution at best or the Court dock on charges of ABH or assault.
Yes 'not one size fits all'.......it's called "equality".
If a bloke has a grope at a woman and she whacks him in the face, he's lucky because as we know the next stop will be the Court dock on charges of sexual assault.
If a woman has a grope at a bloke and he whacks her in the face, he'll end up with a Caution at best or the Court dock on charges of ABH or assault.
Yes 'not one size fits all'.......it's called "equality".
My friends and I are all nearing seventy and we were all groped. It neither frightened nor traumatised us except that I do remember the first and I was a very innocent 12 year old. He went straight for his target between my legs and it did shock me but I got over it and never told anyone.
That was the worst. If I adjusted to that at that age so should these silly women. Tweaked and pinched Some girls were envious.
ETA. If a man were to pinch my bum now I'd be delighted. Memories...
Comments
Actually, I said "It doesn't make any difference to the seriousness of the offence though". So no, not trivial at all.
The reason I asked was that men who have been groped, mostly seem to regard it as no big deal (on here anyway), so I was wondering if that was because they knew they could physically stop it from going further. It's different when you know you can't because the offender is so much bigger & stronger.
And yet, as someone (relatively) in the public eye, she was comfortable repeating her story for many years to live audiences, journalists, and podcast listeners, all the time referring to her attacker by name. Given the fairly close-knit circles of both stand up and the BBC, it's little wonder that DLT started to acquire his 'reputation'...
How anyone in their right mind can justify dragging a person through an extremely long and costly Court process for a "crime" "committed" 20 years ago, i find quite staggering. At the time she was herself a 22 year old adult who as is now well known, later went on to actually capitalise by relaying this as part of her comic material to the paying public which caused much raucous laughter then and now.....makes me wonder not only about her real motive, but also at those people who now suddenly had a change of face and decided we mustn't laugh at the sex and filth she regaled her audience with, but must view her seriously.
I've read many varying views ranging from plain common sense logic to extreme fundamentalism with one post mentioning 'thankfully we've moved on from when women were referred to as dolly birds'.
Jesus God give me strength!
Hopefully come Friday real plain common sense logic will prevail over the loony lot fundamentalists and Mr Travis (or should i say Mr Griffin) will be given a community service order doing something of use to the public.....such as broadcasting radio shows to the public. Alternatively he could always decide on a change of career path......and become a Comedian telling dirty jokes about 'dolly birds'.
After all.....it seems to pay well.
The post you quote is referenced as an example of extreme fundamentalism, in your eyes?
Re BiB - I'm afraid its true. You only have to look at the abuse Andy Murray received on twitter for voting yes in the Scottish independence referendum to realise that. It honestly surprises me that people have got so much pent up emotional energy to expend, expressing such bitter hatred and venom at somebody else's point of view on an abstract issue.
Quite frightening when you think about it.
Good post.
O/T but relating to what you mention i see that youth who was a friend of the murdered couple in Thailand had to have his FB account blocked since some people found he'd had a past conviction for indecent images, so started bombarding his account with venom.
Small minds = single minds = extremism.
Truly the most annoying phrase posted on Digital Spy. Translation: 'look everyone, they think the same as me'.
Well, hopefully not broadcasting, as that would be no punishment to him. Perhaps a spell as a litter collector in public might be a bit of a come-down for him and would serve the purpose instead of prison.
Do you need some attention or something?
Not, but I think you do! Most people just privately think 'good post' in their head - or say 'good post' then elaborate and contribute further.
In fact, the correct response would have been if I had posted 'crap post' under your 'good post'.
There's no wiping the slate clean and making a fresh start these days. With social media a person's past will haunt them for evermore.
Not necessarily. I have commented good post, excellent post or "quoted for truth", without further comment, in order to emphasise an (IMO) outstandingly good effort. I can't see what's wrong with that.
Think you're being a bit precious, quite frankly.
Oh get over yourself and stop acting like a baby. I concurred with the lad's thoughts and said so. Skip past it if it offends you so much, jeez.
So? Why out wanting to sound harsh, who cares if you think it's a good post?
By the same token, who cares if you find it annoying? <shrugs>
I don't know who cares, but they should. The standard of debate on this forum is going downhill fast without having to be confronted pathetic backslapping that contributes nothing whatsoever.
The person who's made the post. It's quite gratifying to receive a compliment for what you say - and it doesn't happen much on DS.
Fair enough.
ETA: Having read the showbiz DLT thread and then this one, I think I just hit a wall.
You could make a start on getting that quality average up then by contributing something to the thread other than a petulant snipe.
Meh, you say petulant, I wasn't looking at it that way.
Some general observations: I don't agree with posters who, whether they mean to or not, appear to be trivialising offences by saying we should be chasing after the 'real villains' such as child molesters. A crime is a crime. That said, for a case such as this to be taken on by the CPS, I wouldn't be surprised if the purpose was to deflect from more serious and powerful offenders. Must be the David Icke in me.
As for the attitude of, if someone gropes you just slap them, that's just laughable. It's not going to work for everyone. There's not a one size fits all, you don't suddenly get to 18 and become perfectly equipped to deal with sh*t like that.
This girl was in her twenties and was not initially molested. It is strange that she didn't move away before his hand touched her breast, because it would normally be an instinctive reaction, but everyone is different.
I am not sure how a "molester" is supposed to tell the difference between the "victim" being "frozen" and allowing a (possibly?) "casting couch moment" to happen?
If a bloke has a grope at a woman and she whacks him in the face, he's lucky because as we know the next stop will be the Court dock on charges of sexual assault.
If a woman has a grope at a bloke and he whacks her in the face, he'll end up with a Caution at best or the Court dock on charges of ABH or assault.
Yes 'not one size fits all'.......it's called "equality".
Not sure if I agree with your assumption at all.
My friends and I are all nearing seventy and we were all groped. It neither frightened nor traumatised us except that I do remember the first and I was a very innocent 12 year old. He went straight for his target between my legs and it did shock me but I got over it and never told anyone.
That was the worst. If I adjusted to that at that age so should these silly women. Tweaked and pinched
ETA. If a man were to pinch my bum now I'd be delighted. Memories...