Was the closing of Borstals the wrong thing to do?

exlordlucanexlordlucan Posts: 35,375
Forum Member
Just a thought I was having and my opinion is that perhaps we wouldn't have the problems we have today because although Borstals were harsh they were a good deterrent.

Comments

  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I don't know much about the subject, but as I thought they ended Borstal because it didn't work :confused:
  • valkayvalkay Posts: 15,726
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    There used to be a Borstal near me, I knew someone who worked there and he said that when some young lads who thought they were tough and hard first came in they cried their eyes out and called for their mums. However they were given lessons, taught to read and write, taught a trade like joinery or worked on the farm, and when they left they were much better equiped to be good citizens.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 496
    Forum Member
    The Birch would be a deterrent- sadly no one has the guts to bring it back.
  • GraathusGraathus Posts: 3,116
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Wetherby wrote: »
    The Birch would be a deterrent- sadly no one has the guts to bring it back.

    Because beating people prevented all crime in the past didn't it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 496
    Forum Member
    Graathus wrote: »
    Because beating people prevented all crime in the past didn't it.
    Not all crime - but the trash rioting and looting would think twice.
  • GraathusGraathus Posts: 3,116
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Wetherby wrote: »
    Not all crime - but the trash rioting and looting would think twice.

    Citation Needed.
  • valkayvalkay Posts: 15,726
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Graathus wrote: »
    Because beating people prevented all crime in the past didn't it.

    They didn't go back for more though.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
    Forum Member
    Borstals just taught you to be a bigger,stronger criminal.
  • GraathusGraathus Posts: 3,116
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    valkay wrote: »
    They didn't go back for more though.

    Citation needed.

    I know the history of criminal justice isn't DS strong point but the fantasies some of you have created are amazing.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
    Forum Member
    Wetherby wrote: »
    Not all crime - but the trash rioting and looting would think twice.

    They would just show the scars off.
  • stripedcatstripedcat Posts: 6,689
    Forum Member
    I didn't think the Borstals ever closed? You should have seen the secondary school I went to. ;)
  • thenetworkbabethenetworkbabe Posts: 45,554
    Forum Member
    Just a thought I was having and my opinion is that perhaps we wouldn't have the problems we have today because although Borstals were harsh they were a good deterrent.

    The problem is that there is no deterrent - it doesn't really matter what you call it. Young offenders, as with these younger rioters, seem to be referred to somewhere with no penalty involved. Social workers seem to then descend with no effect. Many set out to get them selves excluded from school so thats no deterrent. If you threaten to kill the teachers you get sent home - which is what you wanted. They then waste police time for years because - although the police learn who they are and they turn up at police stations tens of times - there's no penalty imposed on them apart from endless warnings, cautions and tellings off. The police end up being seen lugging around massive case files and know exactly what they are up to , but there's no way of dealing with them until they get older and commit a big enough offence to get put away. Even then, its not clear if they are sent anywhere unpleasant enough to be a deterrent.

    The advantage of early long custodial sentences would be that it would give a last opportunity to straighten people out and take them out of the environment that isn't functioning. .But doing it properly and establishing proper control, to stop it developing into a louts academy, would take money and means the state doesn't want to provide. It may not work either - because socipathic and psycopathic behaviour is wired into brains very early on - but it might make some at least literate, and it would take them off the streets and way from tormenting the rest of the popualtion.
  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The advantage of early long custodial sentences would be that it would give a last opportunity to straighten people out and take them out of the environment that isn't functioning. .But doing it properly and establishing proper control, to stop it developing into a louts academy, would take money and means the state doesn't want to provide. It may not work either - because socipathic and psycopathic behaviour is wired into brains very early on - but it might make some at least literate, and it would take them off the streets and way from tormenting the rest of the popualtion.

    There are other ways you could do that and still achieve the same effect.

    For example, you could set up a network of boarding schools for shall we say "troubled" youths. Remove the requirement for a local authority to have to find a school place for children who are expelled, but keep the parental requirement to educate them. Then they are expelled for truancy, disruption, the parents have little choice but to sign them over to a boarding school.

    If the boarding schools are placed in remote areas, there isn't even a need for them to be "secure" as there's nowhere for them to go if they run away. So you get to remove the child from a damaging home environement, before they're in trouble with the police, with parental consent, and without putting them in prison.
  • 5th Horseman5th Horseman Posts: 10,859
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Graathus wrote: »
    Because beating people prevented all crime in the past didn't it.

    Works pretty well in Singapore right now, it has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and canes petty criminals.
  • valkayvalkay Posts: 15,726
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Graathus wrote: »
    Citation needed.

    I know the history of criminal justice isn't DS strong point but the fantasies some of you have created are amazing.

    When my mother was a child a boy on her street was given the birch in the local police station for some misdemeanor and he admitted himself that he didn't want it again. Some of you Guardian readers should get your heads out of your asses and look around the real world.
Sign In or Register to comment.