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Doc Martin (Part 17 — Spoilers)

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    mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I repeat what I said before: when analyzed, these events just don't parse. Not plausibly. I'm not sure they are meant to. Perhaps we're just supposed to be left in the same state of confused sadness as our protagonists.

    I could write a lengthy essay on this but will spare you (and everybody else). Just:
    I think she's given up on him. I think she knows he loves her, but can't let be in an intimate relationship. I think she's gone away to think about whether or not she wants to try again, with the odds being that she'll decide that she doesn't. She might hope that somehow he could break through and give her some reason to believe that trying again would be worthwhile, but she doesn't think it's possible. (I think that's the scene in the bathroom, and that the night before the conversation was about how irrational the trip to Spain was, in his view, and not at all about his remorse and love for her.)

    I'm pretty sure that if she heard the "better husband" speech at all, it just became one factor in the decision-making that she knows is in front of her. Does she believe him, or trust him? Why should she? So, I think in the end, she's going to go through with a decision to have a trial separation, which very often is the death knell of a marriage, and both know it. Hence, the sadness.

    They have to separate, logically, because otherwise Martin won't have to work to "get her back" which MC has said a couple of times, is the theme of S7.

    Well, why not give up on him?

    Big reveal at end of Season 4 and passionate kiss. Start of Season 5--the infamous line that no one would miss her at school if she died, and a season of distance and lack of intimacy.

    Big reveal at end of Season 5--Start of Season 6--(first magnificent, perfect episode, to me). Then a season of distance and lack of intimacy.

    Big reveal at end of Season 6. Season 7--?

    I dislike the big reveals at the end--we cannot trust them. LG cannot trust them. They by no means change anything between the characters or move their relationship forward.

    DM leaving the room at the end of S6 finale reminded me of all the times they tried to have a connection but were interrupted over and over again by various situations and characters. This time, however, DM interrupted the scene on his own.

    LG has been working with DM for a long time (and he with her, yes, she does need to change as well), and has been disappointed endlessly. It's kind of reached the Einsteinian sense of insanity at this point--doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Up to this point, DM seems completely resistant to self-analysis and change, from little glimpses we have gotten; he is in a perpetual personality loop.

    We can only hope much of the behind the scenes scenes of S7 have a different feel to them, more talking and some physicality. And, that creative people have tempered MC's desire to make DM so unattractive and annoying, and are softening and lightening the edges.
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    NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Well, why not give up on him?



    I dislike the big reveals at the end--we cannot trust them. LG cannot trust them. They by no means change anything between the characters or move their relationship forward.

    DM leaving the room at the end of S6 finale reminded me of all the times they tried to have a connection but were interrupted over and over again by various situations and characters. This time, however, DM interrupted the scene on his own.

    LG has been working with DM for a long time (and he with her, yes, she does need to change as well), and has been disappointed endlessly. It's kind of reached the Einsteinian sense of insanity at this point--doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Up to this point, DM seems completely resistant to self-analysis and change, from little glimpses we have gotten; he is in a perpetual personality loop.

    We can only hope much of the behind the scenes scenes of S7 have a different feel to them, more talking and some physicality. And, that creative people have tempered MC's desire to make DM so unattractive and annoying, and are softening and lightening the edges.


    Strongly agree with all of this --one little point tho. Can we say "DM has seemed completely resistant to self-analysis and change...." b/c I hope that he finally shows himself capable of change, or else, he should "leave that poor girl alone." There seemed to be some indications at the end of S6 that he at least understood the necessity of change. Whether he's capable of it or not...a different story, perhaps.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    Can't tell that from action shots on the streets and beaches of Port Isaac. Much is to be revealed.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    Can't tell that from action shots on the streets and beaches of Port Isaac. Much is to be revealed.

    After all, a person who was going to be an extra at the studio encountered him one day when he was in his pajamas. I'd like to think they came off...one way or another.
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    dcdmfandcdmfan Posts: 1,540
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    As I recall, after every finale we hope they will pick up where they left off in the first episode of the next one.

    They have not done that from 4-5 or 5-6.

    Are we still doing spoilers?
    It looks like the marriage counseling doesn't begin until ep 4.

    I think series 7 will have a similar structure as series 6 & 7. I'm not getting bored with the show, but my anticipation that it might be different this time has severely diminished.

    I wish Louisa was played a little less testy and reactive. A lot of it is her acting and not so much the writing. I'm frustrated by that. CC obviously thinks it's the way to approach the character. For me she is not achieving that goal at all, and I think she has misguided herself. I think the way she plays the role feeds into some stereotypes that
    unhappy women always turn into b*itches.

    She doesn't have to turn into Joan Cleaver, or Mrs. Brady, or even the wives in "All Creatures Great and Small". I think she is swinging towards the nagging wife spectrum.

    Sometimes I cringe at her acting choices and feel she should have gone in another direction in some of her scenes.

    From my perspective:
    Good choices:
    Ep 2: scene with other teacher before school concert
    Ep ?: scenes with Becky re: newspaper
    Standing up to Margaret in banana scene in the kitchen, although I think she could have been a little less subtle.
    With Margaret at the airport.

    Not so good:
    She became hysterical at the sports day. He calls her hysterical. He's right. She should have played it angry so that when he calls her hysterical, she's not actually hysterical, thus balancing the scene a bit. I think she just blew that whole scene.

    Series 5: she latched onto the postpartum depression as the cause for her erratic behavior. She could have added some depth to it.

    Not so good writing:
    Shooing Martin away at the hospital. He's the best doctor in the world. She knows he's the best doctor in the world. She would never question him that much in that context, no matter how angry at him she is. Thank God he didn't do what she asked of him because he discovered the blood clot. It makes Louisa look irrational and - dare I say it - hysterical.

    Louisa resisting Mike as the baby sitter: no brainer, the kid's dad is in the next room. Again, this makes her look unreasonable. It's the most logical thing to give the guy a chance. CC plays it a bit that the re-organization of the house bothers her, but the writers don't give her much in that regard.

    Getting on a plane a day after you've been hit by a car, and there a possibility of a blood clot. Wait a day or two. Build a day or two in the writing that she waits a bit, he discovers the tumor thing, etc. It makes her look kind of dumb and risky to be flying that day. He has to rescue her because she makes a huge error. The writing should be that he is rescuing her even after she tried to take some precautions.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    As I recall, after every finale we hope they will pick up where they left off in the first episode of the next one.

    They have not done that from 4-5 or 5-6.

    Are we still doing spoilers?
    It looks like the marriage counseling doesn't begin until ep 4.

    I think series 7 will have a similar structure as series 6 & 7. I'm not getting bored with the show, but my anticipation that it might be different this time has severely diminished.

    I wish Louisa was played a little less testy and reactive. A lot of it is her acting and not so much the writing. I'm frustrated by that. CC obviously thinks it's the way to approach the character. For me she is not achieving that goal at all, and I think she has misguided herself. I think the way she plays the role feeds into some stereotypes that
    unhappy women always turn into b*itches.

    She doesn't have to turn into Joan Cleaver, or Mrs. Brady, or even the wives in "All Creatures Great and Small". I think she is swinging towards the nagging wife spectrum.

    Sometimes I cringe at her acting choices and feel she should have gone in another direction in some of her scenes.

    From my perspective:
    Good choices:
    Ep 2: scene with other teacher before school concert
    Ep ?: scenes with Becky re: newspaper
    Standing up to Margaret in banana scene in the kitchen, although I think she could have been a little less subtle.
    With Margaret at the airport.

    Not so good:
    She became hysterical at the sports day. He calls her hysterical. He's right. She should have played it angry so that when he calls her hysterical, she's not actually hysterical, thus balancing the scene a bit. I think she just blew that whole scene.

    Series 5: she latched onto the postpartum depression as the cause for her erratic behavior. She could have added some depth to it.

    Not so good writing:
    Shooing Martin away at the hospital. He's the best doctor in the world. She knows he's the best doctor in the world. She would never question him that much in that context, no matter how angry at him she is. Thank God he didn't do what she asked of him because he discovered the blood clot. It makes Louisa look irrational and - dare I say it - hysterical.

    Louisa resisting Mike as the baby sitter: no brainer, the kid's dad is in the next room. Again, this makes her look unreasonable. It's the most logical thing to give the guy a chance. CC plays it a bit that the re-organization of the house bothers her, but the writers don't give her much in that regard.

    Getting on a plane a day after you've been hit by a car, and there a possibility of a blood clot. Wait a day or two. Build a day or two in the writing that she waits a bit, he discovers the tumor thing, etc. It makes her look kind of dumb and risky to be flying that day. He has to rescue her because she makes a huge error. The writing should be that he is rescuing her even after she tried to take some precautions.

    Excellent post dc.....the scene that strikes me as really horrible and unrealistic and demeans Louisa's character to a point of ridiculousness is the clock repair scene. She is obviously feeling sentimental and amorous....Martin throws her off with the "anniversary" comment, slightly annoying but correct really....should roll off her back like water on a duck. He then proceeds to tell her about the clock repair and she just sneaks away. She doesn't say anything and just leaves him in mid sentence. Unbelievable! It was so absolutely rude and nasty. I'm not sure if the writer intended that scene to put us off Louisa, but it worked on me. After that I had almost no empathy for her and the difficulty she had living with Martin. That scene made her seem intensely diffident and cruel. Just sit and nod your head a few times even if you're bored to tears. If you love the person that's talking just suffer being totally bored for a couple minutes....then make an excuse, change the subject.......anything. Even I, with my brief attention span, would do that! It was bad.
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    NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    Excellent post dc.....the scene that strikes me as really horrible and unrealistic and demeans Louisa's character to a point of ridiculousness is the clock repair scene. She is obviously feeling sentimental and amorous....Martin throws her off with the "anniversary" comment, slightly annoying but correct really....should roll off her back like water on a duck. He then proceeds to tell her about the clock repair and she just sneaks away. She doesn't say anything and just leaves him in mid sentence. Unbelievable! It was so absolutely rude and nasty. I'm not sure if the writer intended that scene to put us off Louisa, but it worked on me. After that I had almost no empathy for her and the difficulty she had living with Martin. That scene made her seem intensely diffident and cruel. Just sit and nod your head a few times even if you're bored to tears. If you love the person that's talking just suffer being totally bored for a couple minutes....then make an excuse, change the subject.......anything. Even I, with my brief attention span, would do that! It was bad.

    Heaven knows I[ve listened to enough fishing, hunting and golfing stories over the years, in none of which I have the slightest interest. And my husband indulges me by listening to my latest adventures in genealogy, about which he couldn't care less.

    But we have a ton of other stuff in common. What do these two have, besides James Henry? And maybe sex -- although you wouldn't know it, except for JH.

    Anyway, you're right, it was rude. She knows he's literal minded -- you almost have to thwack him upside the head to get him into a different mindset. But she could have and should have been more explicit, instead of expecting him to read her mind. All downhill from there.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Heaven knows I[ve listened to enough fishing, hunting and golfing stories over the years, in none of which I have the slightest interest. And my husband indulges me by listening to my latest adventures in genealogy, about which he couldn't care less.

    But we have a ton of other stuff in common. What do these two have, besides James Henry? And maybe sex -- although you wouldn't know it, except for JH.

    Anyway, you're right, it was rude. She knows he's literal minded -- you almost have to thwack him upside the head to get him into a different mindset. But she could have and should have been more explicit, instead of expecting him to read her mind. All downhill from there.

    My husband caught me red handed in my "uh-hum" mode sometime recently. I forget what he was blathering on about, but I just wasn't listening. Then he asked a specific question or something and I said "uh-hum". It was hilarious and I was busted.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Heaven knows I[ve listened to enough fishing, hunting and golfing stories over the years, in none of which I have the slightest interest. And my husband indulges me by listening to my latest adventures in genealogy, about which he couldn't care less.

    But we have a ton of other stuff in common. What do these two have, besides James Henry? And maybe sex -- although you wouldn't know it, except for JH.

    Anyway, you're right, it was rude. She knows he's literal minded -- you almost have to thwack him upside the head to get him into a different mindset. But she could have and should have been more explicit, instead of expecting him to read her mind. All downhill from there.

    I really don't think you have to have that much in common to form the bonds of a good relationship. If there is passionate love...which I think they have, even in a chemical sense, as well as a child, they have more than enough to base a relationship on. That, with ADL...activities of daily living....is enough to base a relationship on. They seem to be communicating on that level as shown in the discussion regarding the dinner with the school board member...you don't have to shop...I'll make the mackerel.... at the wedding they were totally on the same page. "They're plotting something." "Oh God, I hope it's not embarrassing." I just don't think you both have to be gardeners or art lovers to be together. Each one can be enriched with the other one's passion.
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    NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    Mofromco wrote: »
    I really don't think you have to have that much in common to form the bonds of a good relationship. If there is passionate love...which I think they have, even in a chemical sense, as well as a child, they have more than enough to base a relationship on. That, with ADL...activities of daily living....is enough to base a relationship on. They seem to be communicating on that level as shown in the discussion regarding the dinner with the school board member...you don't have to shop...I'll make the mackerel.... at the wedding they were totally on the same page. "They're plotting something." "Oh God, I hope it's not embarrassing." I just don't think you both have to be gardeners or art lovers to be together. Each one can be enriched with the other one's passion.

    Another sweet moment was when they were standing at the altar, talking about her hair, and whether they were nervous. It was like they were in a little world of their own. There is definitely potential there, if they can get out of their way.
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    MofromcoMofromco Posts: 1,339
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Another sweet moment was when they were standing at the altar, talking about her hair, and whether they were nervous. It was like they were in a little world of their own. There is definitely potential there, if they can get out of their way.

    Another intimate, poignant moment that just about blew me away was when he was putting her hair into a ponytail when being discharged from the hospital. It just seemed such an example of their love without having to say a thing. Magic.
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    mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Strongly agree with all of this --one little point tho. Can we say "DM has seemed completely resistant to self-analysis and change...." b/c I hope that he finally shows himself capable of change, or else, he should "leave that poor girl alone." There seemed to be some indications at the end of S6 that he at least understood the necessity of change. Whether he's capable of it or not...a different story, perhaps.

    Well, we had him tell LG "I won't be like my father" in the S5 finale, and nothing came of that!

    But, sure, maybe we will see some attempts at change but if it takes...
    Until week 4 when the marriage counseling comes in then the first three episodes may be the same tiresome problems between them we've seen the last 3 seasons.
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    Shop GirlShop Girl Posts: 1,284
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    Big new survey update - thanks for the post Eniko!

    PLEASE ONLY LODGE YOUR LOCATION ONCE. YOU WILL NOT SEE THE UPDATE IMMEDIATELY, I ONLY UPDATE ONCE A DAY OR SO. WE WANT THIS TO BE A GOOD INDICATION OF WHERE THE DM FANS USING SOCIAL MEDIA ARE LIVING.

    Survey: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwide.html

    Current Maps: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwideMaps.html
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    BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    MM. The walk at the end of S 5 led to the wedding at the beginning of S 6. Maybe their presumed separation at the end of S 6 will lead to marriage counseling in the first rather than fourth episode of S 7. If the show's storyline is that they need help to fix the marriage, why wait until E 4? Is there hard evidence that this is when counseling starts?
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    NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    MM. The walk at the end of S 5 led to the wedding at the beginning of S 6. Maybe their presumed separation at the end of S 6 will lead to marriage counseling in the first rather than fourth episode of S 7. If the show's storyline is that they need help to fix the marriage, why wait until E 4? Is there hard evidence that this is when counseling starts?
    In the 3rd episode, Aunt Ruth and Louisa meet for lunch or dinner-- anyway, at a local cafe -- and Aunt Ruth convinces Louisa that they should try marriage counseling. This is from people who were in Port Isaac, and observed this (somehow). I don't know whether this means that Louisa had decided the marriage couldn't be salvaged, or was insisting on some time elapsing before she decided what she wanted to do, or that they had been trying, without much success, to work things out themselves.
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    dcdmfandcdmfan Posts: 1,540
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    NewPark wrote: »
    Heaven knows I[ve listened to enough fishing, hunting and golfing stories over the years, in none of which I have the slightest interest. And my husband indulges me by listening to my latest adventures in genealogy, about which he couldn't care less.

    But we have a ton of other stuff in common. What do these two have, besides James Henry? And maybe sex -- although you wouldn't know it, except for JH.

    Anyway, you're right, it was rude. She knows he's literal minded -- you almost have to thwack him upside the head to get him into a different mindset. But she could have and should have been more explicit, instead of expecting him to read her mind. All downhill from there.

    Come to think of it, she's never been married before and isn't great at it either. Maybe they can learn from each other. I hope the therapist emphasizes they need to work together and
    not just go on picnics.
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    BloodphobiaBloodphobia Posts: 448
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    Picnics, commenting on a young woman's chest, and chasing dogs and people into water should be off the table. There are acres of gorgeous meadows, numerous places to sit and chat in and around "Portwenn" and many Trust properties, not to mention the Eden Project, where Martin, Louisa and the baby could have a family outing and STILL have some desperately needed NEW comic relief. In my 10 second exchange with Philippa Braithwaite after watching a half day of filming at Port Gaverne, I asked if there would be more quirky villagers in this series, such as the guy who runs the Port Isaac Shuttle Service (PISS) whose motto is "Take the PISS." She laughed and said she hadn't heard of him. Well maybe someone should chat up the villagers and mine the gold that is all around them. The series has lost its sense of place it had with Dominic Minghella.
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    robbleonarobbleona Posts: 6,261
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    Picnics, commenting on a young woman's chest, and chasing dogs and people into water should be off the table. There are acres of gorgeous meadows, numerous places to sit and chat in and around "Portwenn" and many Trust properties, not to mention the Eden Project, where Martin, Louisa and the baby could have a family outing and STILL have some desperately needed NEW comic relief. In my 10 second exchange with Philippa Braithwaite after watching a half day of filming at Port Gaverne, I asked if there would be more quirky villagers in this series, such as the guy who runs the Port Isaac Shuttle Service (PISS) whose motto is "Take the PISS." She laughed and said she hadn't heard of him. Well maybe someone should chat up the villagers and mine the gold that is all around them. The series has lost its sense of place it had with Dominic Minghella.

    I would agree that the early series were the best, although they were all positively fine ...until the gloomy and unbelievable series 6 IMO.
    A BIT TOO EARLY TO SHOOT THIS ONE DOWN IN FLAMES, MIND!!
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    mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Shop Girl wrote: »
    Big new survey update - thanks for the post Eniko!

    PLEASE ONLY LODGE YOUR LOCATION ONCE. YOU WILL NOT SEE THE UPDATE IMMEDIATELY, I ONLY UPDATE ONCE A DAY OR SO. WE WANT THIS TO BE A GOOD INDICATION OF WHERE THE DM FANS USING SOCIAL MEDIA ARE LIVING.

    Survey: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwide.html

    Current Maps: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwideMaps.html

    Hey, Shop Girl!

    I just enjoyed myself looking at all the maps and the people around the world who are fans of DM. You've done a great job; it was really interesting and the maps look terrific.
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    Ms_SarahMs_Sarah Posts: 301
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Hey, Shop Girl!

    I just enjoyed myself looking at all the maps and the people around the world who are fans of DM. You've done a great job; it was really interesting and the maps look terrific.

    I second that - Thanks, Shop Girl !
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    NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    http://deadline.com/2015/06/doc-martin-us-series-adaptation-marta-kauffman-electus-1201435756/

    Unclear where it will ultimately be shown -- premium cable, cable, broadcast networks, or something like Netflicks.
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    primosprimosprimosprimos Posts: 1,067
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    NewPark wrote: »
    http://deadline.com/2015/06/doc-martin-us-series-adaptation-marta-kauffman-electus-1201435756/

    Unclear where it will ultimately be shown -- premium cable, cable, broadcast networks, or something like Netflicks.

    Noooooooooooooo. How completely and utterly asinine.

    Because we've done SO well with SO many UK series here, going back to the POG that was Cracker with Robert Pastorelli.

    Oh well.
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    primosprimosprimosprimos Posts: 1,067
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    Shop Girl wrote: »
    Big new survey update - thanks for the post Eniko!

    PLEASE ONLY LODGE YOUR LOCATION ONCE. YOU WILL NOT SEE THE UPDATE IMMEDIATELY, I ONLY UPDATE ONCE A DAY OR SO. WE WANT THIS TO BE A GOOD INDICATION OF WHERE THE DM FANS USING SOCIAL MEDIA ARE LIVING.

    Survey: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwide.html

    Current Maps: http://portwennonline.com/SurveyWorldwideMaps.html

    Wait, what? :confused:

    Why are the numbers higher in the U.S.? And the highest in Florida, go figure.

    But this is a UK board, so assuming most of the readers here are from the UK, aren't they all fans of DM?

    Or have they all had enough, as I have?

    P.S. Fascinating endeavor, ShopGirl.
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    earlgrey152earlgrey152 Posts: 94
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    Wait, what? :confused:

    Why are the numbers higher in the U.S.? And the highest in Florida, go figure.

    But this is a UK board, so assuming most of the readers here are from the UK, aren't they all fans of DM?

    Or have they all had enough, as I have?

    P.S. Fascinating endeavor, ShopGirl.

    I wondered the same thing. I would have expected much higher numbers from the UK, seeing as it *is* a British show. Curious - what possible factors would lead to this result? Or maybe it's still too early to make any conclusions?
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    earlgrey152earlgrey152 Posts: 94
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    NewPark wrote: »
    http://deadline.com/2015/06/doc-martin-us-series-adaptation-marta-kauffman-electus-1201435756/

    Unclear where it will ultimately be shown -- premium cable, cable, broadcast networks, or something like Netflicks.

    Honestly, I'm surprised it's taken this long. Not sure how they will adapt it to the US market, as so much of the show's charm is the British humour, and I don't see that translating well to mainstream US television. Depends on how much freedom they take with the characters/scripts/storyline.

    Besides, wouldn't it basically be a mash-up of Northern Exposure (which I've never seen personally, but it's often referenced when describing Doc Martin) and House?

    But I'm not writing it off just yet - my curiousity will ensure that I watch at least an episode or two.
This discussion has been closed.