That third episode came across as a great deal more sanitised and (with the odd exception, like the loudmouth woman with the gang of kids) happy clappy than the first.
I can only conclude that First Great Western have far better PR and legal people working for them than East Coast do, so did a much more thorough job of approving where the cameras could go.
Well Im just watching the first episode (half way through), but so far I have to disagree. Its a pile of biased crap which is clearly only interested in making them all look like incompetent nutters rather than actually providing a real insight into how the railway works.
I'm not so sure about the first episode I had it on in the background but have watched the others so far. I suppose every one is entitled to their opinion but for me it's not so much the people, it's the operation, the business practices etc. I dare say if they came to where I work, the nutters and egomaniacs would be queuing up to be filmed whilst the people who do the real work would be doing just that. I agree it's biased but would naturally expect that.
Pretty much yes. Delay minuets are tracked to the original cause, the responsible company will have that penalty the the process of claims upon claims. But its important to remember that it works both ways. So if network rail causes delays to that freight company say, the following week, (which will happen), then the FOC will be compensated for that. So the amounts actually paid won't be as shown by the "documentary".
It makes sense, the aim is to minimise the penalties so at totting up time they don't have a negative balance.
It's easy to criticise, especially when you have a terrible commute every day understandably, but it could be a lot worse. I travel FGW and Virgin and when they announced First Group had won the tendered contract away from Virgin I shuddered. They are poles apart. Glad they turned the decision around.
"It's easy to criticise, especially when you have a terrible commute every day understandably, but it could be a lot worse. I travel FGW and Virgin and when they announced First Group had won the tendered contract away from Virgin I shuddered. They are poles apart. Glad they turned the decision around".[/QUOTE]
The West Coast Mainline - on which Virgin operates - was the latest route to have been upgraded. Virgin also has the newest fleet.First Great Western, on the other hand, is operating on a route that is currently being upgraded - hence the massive amount of work at Reading and elsewhere.
By 2017, the Great Western Mainline from London to Cardiff will be electrified (Swansea by 2018) including spurs to Oxford, Bath & Bristol. New 140 mph Electric Express Trains will enter service with hybrids being used on those routes that will not be entirely under wires. The present lack of capacity is partly because there is no point in building new diesel trains / coaches with electrifcation coming soon. The new electric trains will also be longer than the outgoing HST's. Therefore, it is rather unfair to compare Virgin with First at the present time. Once the Great Western has a new fleet and line upgrade, then we could make a fair comparison between the two companies - assuming that they are still running the relevant routes.
PS> Let us hope that the new trains for the Great Western actually have wide bodies (unlike the narrow, cramped Voyagers) and seats aligned with windows along with plenty of legroom.
I've come pretty late to this, but I couldn't understand the delay over the repair of the electrical supply to the signalling, the damaged suggested to have been caused by a freight train.
Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned, so the workers were told to hold off until the inspection was completed.
But after three hours the engineers were told no one was coming, so they just got on with it.
Surely the fine for the delay then would have been far greater than any monies recovered if indeed they could actually identify "who did what?"
This programme ought to enlighten the travelling public about the problems that the railway faces daily.
Seeing NR in action on the Leeds programme fighting adverse weather conditions and and BTP dealing with drunken passengers, copper fairies and tresspassers show that delays aren't the driver's personal vendetta against them!!!
The sequence where the BTP dealt with the teenager killed on the line was harrowing: both the clear-up the following morning to retrieve personal effects, and the car ride to ASDA to tell the mum.
Although I followed Jerry Controller's comments about amassed delay minutes, I fear this may have whizzed over a lot of heads. I bet they would think you were pulling their leg if you told them about the daft system of delay attribution present in ModernDynamicThrustingRailway!
Once again, some great ambassadors for the railway industry, e.g. the large jolly guy in the Information Booth on Leeds platform, and his smiley son on the ticket barriers. The driver of the unit, clobbered with rostering on the Ale Trail was amusing as well. The bearded guy at Twyford was a proper railwayman through and through.
Was thinking that the Ale Trail is more bother than it's worth considering the delays and using up manpower to shepherd the wobbly tresspassing passengers around the network.
The waste of three hours waiting for non-existent Railway Investigators was scandalous. Procedures should be changed so that their right to halt repairs is removed! Getting people moving by restarting the train service should be the priority.
I've come pretty late to this, but I couldn't understand the delay over the repair of the electrical supply to the signalling, the damaged suggested to have been caused by a freight train.
Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned, so the workers were told to hold off until the inspection was completed.
But after three hours the engineers were told no one was coming, so they just got on with it.
Surely the fine for the delay then would have been far greater than any monies recovered if indeed they could actually identify "who did what?"
"What a way to run a railway!"
Making some assumptions here:
There's also the matter of trying to find out what happened and preventing it happening again.
Something loose on the freight car that shouldn't be and is down to the maintenance team or shunter/driver checks (assuming there are periodical checks).
Could have been a metal tie down that worked it's way out of car, cut a load of wires then got flung in to the batter in the middle of nowhere.
I dont understand how, if every seat is taken, how many extra tickets can they sell? so even if youve got a booked seat, It dosent mean you get one?
There is no upper capacity for a train, so the woman who complains that it's illegal to be packed in is wrong - it is not. Because the railway is 'turn up and go' passengers can swap between trains at will (except with advance tickets), there can be no fully booked - no more tickets scenario.
If passengers want a 'every seat taken - no more tickets sold' policy, then they will have to be prepared to be refused to get on the train they want - and the next one - and the next one. This is what people do not realise by pushing for such policies. You will be severely reducing your travel possibilities and potential for longer waits or having to plan even further in advance.
If you have booked a seat - as long as the reservations are displayed on the train, you have the right to claim your seat(s).
Right, so even if the train is choca, if youve got a reserved seat, you can push your way to it? and supposing someone has just taken the "Reserved" ticket out?
Right, so even if the train is choca, if youve got a reserved seat, you can push your way to it? and supposing someone has just taken the "Reserved" ticket out?
You show them the reservation printed with your travel tickets, ask them if they have a similar reservation in their hand, if they do and it's the same then you get the guard/steward/train captain to resolve it. if they don't have one and they refuse to move then you're allowed to gouge their eyes out with a melon baller. edit: not really, you'd get the guard to resolve it again.
Sometimes when staff are in a rush to turn round a train, they don't ticket the reserved seats in the first place. This is a real pain for people who have happened innocently to take these seats, and who can within the regulations be turfed out by the person who holds the reservation.
I've seen the Leeds episode and the one after, I don't know how many others there have been.
I thought the Leeds one was excellent, and the tone was not critical - or if it was meant to be, I missed it, I just came out very impressed at all they had to put up with.
Less excited by Reading but I thought the young lad who had to ring up the owners to say their dog was dead was sensitive.
Making some assumptions here:
There's also the matter of trying to find out what happened and preventing it happening again.
Something loose on the freight car that shouldn't be and is down to the maintenance team or shunter/driver checks (assuming there are periodical checks).
Could have been a metal tie down that worked it's way out of car, cut a load of wires then got flung in to the batter in the middle of nowhere.
No assumptions, just relating what we were told, happened.
Of course it could have been anything, that's the point.
The engineers were told to wait for someone to come and check the damage before starting the repairs, after hanging around for three hours they were then told no one was coming, so they got on with the job.
I dont understand how, if every seat is taken, how many extra tickets can they sell? so even if youve got a booked seat, It dosent mean you get one?
You don't if your train is cancelled and you have to wait for the next one. Obviously and regrettably in such a case its simply not possible to honor it.
IIRC this is what happened in the show, although it was not clearly stated they did just talk about extra strain due to previous cancellation. (On the other hand, i might have misremembered)
If you have a reservation for that train, that seat is your basically.
No assumptions, just relating what we were told, happened.
Well you are "Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned" .
That is an assumption. Some accidents have to be reported to RAIB, they may have been waiting a decision on that as its a legal requirement (I do not know what the exact criteria is).
They may have wanted an investigator if they were suspicious of vandalism.
Well you are "Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned" .
That is an assumption. Some accidents have to be reported to RAIB, they may have been waiting a decision on that as its a legal requirement (I do not know what the exact criteria is).
They may have wanted an investigator if they were suspicious of vandalism.
Or something else intirely
Yes, as I said it could, but they didn't get an investigator, they got nothing. In the end, it would appear that the programme suggested there was an unnecessary delay of three hours.
Therefore, it is rather unfair to compare Virgin with First at the present time. Once the Great Western has a new fleet and line upgrade, then we could make a fair comparison between the two companies - assuming that they are still running the relevant routes.
I guess my comparison was based more on operating practice. For some reason unknown to man FGW's timetables are disjointed and confusing. They have three main arterial routes that have many junctions connecting each other. Planning to travel to a specific rail station is rather like playing Tetris.
A few times station staff have tipped me off to catch an alternative slightly later train as it arrived at my destination sooner than the train I was planning to catch.
I managed to delay by 30 minutes my journey departure time by spotting the fact I could leave later and by choosing to connect at a place not offered as an option I would arrive at the same time. It involved buying two tickets, one part way to my destination and the other for for a small continuation then a change to a different train.
Not sure new rolling stock will fix such incompetence.
Your chance to take part in the East Coast TV show
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Will you be making a special train journey with East Coast between the beginning of March and the end of May 2013? Maybe for an important or unusual event? Or are you a regular East Coast traveller?
If you have an interesting story to tell about you and your journey with us and would like to take part, please drop us a line at: Email: passengers 'at' cineflix.com
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We’d love to hear all about your journey experiences with East Coast!
Just watched the episode from Reading. Really enjoyed it. I do think the first episode from Kings Cross was an anomaly - most of the staff seen in the Leeds and Reading ones seem much happier.
Thought the two ladies in the buffet car on the evening train were funny and seemed to really enjoy their job. Thought that they had a good manner about them and dealt with customers very well.
Comments
See here cantilever traffic masts
http://www.fabrikat.co.uk/products/traffic-management
I've seen some, somewhere in London can't remember where though, might be Vauxhall cross.
In anycase the other FM would need a 20 foot tailgate to clout them as they've got to be taller than the trailer on a artic.
That's probably enough of that tangent
My bad attempt at trying to illustrate a point. Did you watch the show? Do you have a view or are you just here to correct other posters?
I can only conclude that First Great Western have far better PR and legal people working for them than East Coast do, so did a much more thorough job of approving where the cameras could go.
I'm not so sure about the first episode I had it on in the background but have watched the others so far. I suppose every one is entitled to their opinion but for me it's not so much the people, it's the operation, the business practices etc. I dare say if they came to where I work, the nutters and egomaniacs would be queuing up to be filmed whilst the people who do the real work would be doing just that. I agree it's biased but would naturally expect that.
It makes sense, the aim is to minimise the penalties so at totting up time they don't have a negative balance.
It's easy to criticise, especially when you have a terrible commute every day understandably, but it could be a lot worse. I travel FGW and Virgin and when they announced First Group had won the tendered contract away from Virgin I shuddered. They are poles apart. Glad they turned the decision around.
The West Coast Mainline - on which Virgin operates - was the latest route to have been upgraded. Virgin also has the newest fleet.First Great Western, on the other hand, is operating on a route that is currently being upgraded - hence the massive amount of work at Reading and elsewhere.
By 2017, the Great Western Mainline from London to Cardiff will be electrified (Swansea by 2018) including spurs to Oxford, Bath & Bristol. New 140 mph Electric Express Trains will enter service with hybrids being used on those routes that will not be entirely under wires. The present lack of capacity is partly because there is no point in building new diesel trains / coaches with electrifcation coming soon. The new electric trains will also be longer than the outgoing HST's. Therefore, it is rather unfair to compare Virgin with First at the present time. Once the Great Western has a new fleet and line upgrade, then we could make a fair comparison between the two companies - assuming that they are still running the relevant routes.
PS> Let us hope that the new trains for the Great Western actually have wide bodies (unlike the narrow, cramped Voyagers) and seats aligned with windows along with plenty of legroom.
Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned, so the workers were told to hold off until the inspection was completed.
But after three hours the engineers were told no one was coming, so they just got on with it.
Surely the fine for the delay then would have been far greater than any monies recovered if indeed they could actually identify "who did what?"
"What a way to run a railway!"
Seeing NR in action on the Leeds programme fighting adverse weather conditions and and BTP dealing with drunken passengers, copper fairies and tresspassers show that delays aren't the driver's personal vendetta against them!!!
The sequence where the BTP dealt with the teenager killed on the line was harrowing: both the clear-up the following morning to retrieve personal effects, and the car ride to ASDA to tell the mum.
Although I followed Jerry Controller's comments about amassed delay minutes, I fear this may have whizzed over a lot of heads. I bet they would think you were pulling their leg if you told them about the daft system of delay attribution present in ModernDynamicThrustingRailway!
Once again, some great ambassadors for the railway industry, e.g. the large jolly guy in the Information Booth on Leeds platform, and his smiley son on the ticket barriers. The driver of the unit, clobbered with rostering on the Ale Trail was amusing as well. The bearded guy at Twyford was a proper railwayman through and through.
Was thinking that the Ale Trail is more bother than it's worth considering the delays and using up manpower to shepherd the wobbly tresspassing passengers around the network.
The waste of three hours waiting for non-existent Railway Investigators was scandalous. Procedures should be changed so that their right to halt repairs is removed! Getting people moving by restarting the train service should be the priority.
Making some assumptions here:
There's also the matter of trying to find out what happened and preventing it happening again.
Something loose on the freight car that shouldn't be and is down to the maintenance team or shunter/driver checks (assuming there are periodical checks).
Could have been a metal tie down that worked it's way out of car, cut a load of wires then got flung in to the batter in the middle of nowhere.
There is no upper capacity for a train, so the woman who complains that it's illegal to be packed in is wrong - it is not. Because the railway is 'turn up and go' passengers can swap between trains at will (except with advance tickets), there can be no fully booked - no more tickets scenario.
If passengers want a 'every seat taken - no more tickets sold' policy, then they will have to be prepared to be refused to get on the train they want - and the next one - and the next one. This is what people do not realise by pushing for such policies. You will be severely reducing your travel possibilities and potential for longer waits or having to plan even further in advance.
If you have booked a seat - as long as the reservations are displayed on the train, you have the right to claim your seat(s).
You show them the reservation printed with your travel tickets, ask them if they have a similar reservation in their hand, if they do and it's the same then you get the guard/steward/train captain to resolve it. if they don't have one and they refuse to move then you're allowed to gouge their eyes out with a melon baller. edit: not really, you'd get the guard to resolve it again.
It has happened to me.
I thought the Leeds one was excellent, and the tone was not critical - or if it was meant to be, I missed it, I just came out very impressed at all they had to put up with.
Less excited by Reading but I thought the young lad who had to ring up the owners to say their dog was dead was sensitive.
No assumptions, just relating what we were told, happened.
Of course it could have been anything, that's the point.
The engineers were told to wait for someone to come and check the damage before starting the repairs, after hanging around for three hours they were then told no one was coming, so they got on with the job.
You don't if your train is cancelled and you have to wait for the next one. Obviously and regrettably in such a case its simply not possible to honor it.
IIRC this is what happened in the show, although it was not clearly stated they did just talk about extra strain due to previous cancellation. (On the other hand, i might have misremembered)
If you have a reservation for that train, that seat is your basically.
Well you are "Presumably, it was first intended for the damage to be inspected so that blame could be apportioned" .
That is an assumption. Some accidents have to be reported to RAIB, they may have been waiting a decision on that as its a legal requirement (I do not know what the exact criteria is).
They may have wanted an investigator if they were suspicious of vandalism.
Or something else intirely
Yes, as I said it could, but they didn't get an investigator, they got nothing. In the end, it would appear that the programme suggested there was an unnecessary delay of three hours.
After more disruptions today I'm not convinced of the stability of electrified networks. Maybe all trains should be hybrid?
I guess my comparison was based more on operating practice. For some reason unknown to man FGW's timetables are disjointed and confusing. They have three main arterial routes that have many junctions connecting each other. Planning to travel to a specific rail station is rather like playing Tetris.
A few times station staff have tipped me off to catch an alternative slightly later train as it arrived at my destination sooner than the train I was planning to catch.
I managed to delay by 30 minutes my journey departure time by spotting the fact I could leave later and by choosing to connect at a place not offered as an option I would arrive at the same time. It involved buying two tickets, one part way to my destination and the other for for a small continuation then a change to a different train.
Not sure new rolling stock will fix such incompetence.
Source
Thought the two ladies in the buffet car on the evening train were funny and seemed to really enjoy their job. Thought that they had a good manner about them and dealt with customers very well.
Given the introduction it's going to 'kick off' we'll see some proper rantage from the punters tonight