Employer refusing to pay expenses...
jesse_pinkman
Posts: 500 Forum Member
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I have a bit of a difficult situation with work, where the head of accounts is refusing to pay expenses on a job, because it wasn't budgeted.
I'm thinking I will get it eventually and she's just being a crazy bitch because she's like that. This woman also screams and swears at people and threw a pen at someone once...
However, if she refuses to pay, what legal rights do I have in this situation? The fact is, I'm not paying to work for my company! The difficulty is that she is the managing director's wife, so he knows all about this and turns a blind eye to it all (messed up situation and company, I know...).
I'm thinking I will get it eventually and she's just being a crazy bitch because she's like that. This woman also screams and swears at people and threw a pen at someone once...
However, if she refuses to pay, what legal rights do I have in this situation? The fact is, I'm not paying to work for my company! The difficulty is that she is the managing director's wife, so he knows all about this and turns a blind eye to it all (messed up situation and company, I know...).
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What were the expenses for ?
How much was it ?
Were you required to incur these expenses in the conduct of your job (ie - did you just 'do' this on your own judgement, which leads to...)
Was there any agreement in place, before you spent your own money, that you would be reimbursed ?
In my opinion, if you have become out of pocket by doing something on behalf of your employer then you should be recompensed, but being entirely objective (in the absence of other details), if it was a case that you took it upon yourself to treat a client to lunch, without authority to do so, then you could be in a tricky position.
I do hope that makes sense.
In my own experience, I have always had clear guidelines of what could be claimed (including international travel, taxis, meals etc) before I have spent any money.
Expenses were for a business trip to attend a presentation, totalled £650, including travel, hotel, meals. My manager had budgeted only £200, thinking we could travel on the day, but that wasn't possible in the end.
These are standard expenses claims, but because it's not been included on a cost form, the accounts woman is throwing a hissy. Seriously, I've never worked in a situation like this before, crazy woman...
Was the cost known before you 'paid out' ?
Like I said before, I am no legal beagle, but I am just trying to think how this would work out pursuant to a legal claim.
I am wondering (before someone jumps on me and says don't give advice if you don't 'know'), if it could get 'messy' for want of a better phrase, if it could be interpreted that you were not authorised to spend that much company money.
For example - a few years ago, working for a different company than I do now, I was asked to work abroad for a few days. When it came to settling the hotel bill it became apparent that the company credit card has not been approved by the hotel and that they understood that I would be paying.
I made sure, before paying the bill, that the company (my employer) were conversant with the full cost and had a fixed date of when they would reimburse me (ie, not the normal 'get it as expense in your next pay packet' deal). This happened on two trips abroad, and it was as well I was able to 'bail them out' as I wouldn't have been able to leave had I not paid up.
What I am getting at, in a round about way, is do you have evidence that you were authorised to spend that much company money (irrespective of budgets) before you elected to pay it out.
I am certain that more legally minded people than me will join this thread before long, and I emphasise again, this is just layman's thoughts, not 'advice'.
I really do hope that you do not end up out of pocket, when you were trying to do the right thing for the business.
Not the account ladies fault. She will be asked by her manager where the extra £450 went if she doesn't have an official company record of it.
Have you submitted all your receipts to show your expenditure? It sounds like a mere administration issue to overcome regarding the correct pro-forma.
Yeah I think it depends on the nature of the expenses. £650 seems a lot, but depends on how many people and for how long.
I'd be rather annoyed if I was an expenses checker, and it a night in a 5 star expensive hotel, with expensive meals and drinks etc, It when they could have stayed in a cheaper hotel and had a cheaper meal. It depends on the policy of the company.
Quite. If one of my guys at work had presented this kind of bill for a single overnight stay I'd be inclined to throw a pen. Not AT anyone, though
It does depend on where you're staying, though. I know what the hotel bills in London can be like from experience....
you talk about your manager - usually its your line manager who authorises expenses. have they authorised the £650?
Depends on where your company is based, and where the presentation was to be given.
E.G. Work in Edinburgh, presentation in London.
Travel to airport - £40 (return)
Flight to Luton - £250 (return)
Luton to London - £60 return
Hotel £120
Taxi to wherever presentation is to be given £20 (return)
Thats almost £500 before meals!
I take it this is a smallish company. you need to talk to the MD, I think. talking of sueing is ridiculous, unless you are changing jobs.
For instance I have to attend exhibitions at the NEC etc, so being in South Wales I will travel up the day before, hotel overnight, then attend the show and return on the same day. In the past, some of the appointments have run on longer than expected, and I haven't even left the NEC by closing time, so I ring work to confirm I can stay an extra night etc.
However, £350 of that is based on cost incurred by flying, which could easily be reduced in many ways, instead of the expensive transfer from Luton to London, use one of the many low cost shuttle services available;insted of flying, hire a car or take the train - just looking at a rail website I have seen that a return ticket Edinburgh to London for today (so no discounts for advance booking etc) can be purchased for £126 which would have you in the middle of London, no need for transfers etc and all at half the price. Instead of using a taxi to the presentation, use public transport, it's not like London doesn't have a decent system etcetc
If my company asks me to go on a trip, I will be given a budget for my expenses and it is my responsibility to justify any costs they think are excessive. They would expect me to utilize my expense account but they would expect me to be practical and cot effective too.
I think it all depends on how much time you have - I often have to go down to London from Edinburgh, sometimes I can make it to my meeting on the train but sometimes it's just not viable and you have to fly (obviously this is based on this scenario and not the OPs as we don't have any more info), and sometimes I don't always get a lot of notice so having to take what's available flight wise could mean an extra cost. I often go for a meeting and come back the same day to save on hotel costs but there are instances when things are too early or too late that you just can't get travel back. Hiring a car - I would just refuse, there's no way I'd drive to London regardless of how much it saves, it wouldn't do my sanity any good.
Also re taxi's v public transport to get to where you're going, if you've got a lot of equipment + your luggage, handbag etc, and if it costs a lot of money, I would feel safer getting a taxi than public transport (this doesn't relate to me as I don't carry anything too expensive and nearly always use the tube when I'm in London)
We have a guideline for when we're booking travel and accommodation but there is the facility to go over that with a justified reason.
Shove the 'legal rights'. Simply refuse to go on any more jobs unless expenses are promptly paid.
That's the spirit - just tell 'em, eh?
Unfortunately, adopting such a bolshy attitude could result in a visit to the local Jobcentre in the near future (as will calling the MD's wife a "crazy bitch" if he happens to learn of this thread).
Oh I agree that sometimes it's just not practical to use methods I suggested, but my point was that if I was the OP and my manager had budgeted £200 for my expenses, I would be looking at the best way to spend that money on transport/accommodation and unless I had justification like the ones you pointed out (awkward times/extra luggage/not practical to drive etc) I would be trying to keep costs down. Any time I have gone down the more expensive route and gone over budget - spending £350 on flights over £126 on trains, for example - then I have never had issues with my manager signing off on the expense because I have been able to justify them.
From the account the OP has given they haven't, yet, given enough information for us to work out whether they have justifiable reasons as to why their claim is so far above the budget. All we have to go on is the information that they spent £450 more than their budget but not what caused such a huge discrepancy.
Lol okay, I've come back to this thread after a day and seen there's been a lot of responses...
Of course, I'd never refer to her in public as a 'crazy bitch'. I'd like to think I have a professional approach and attitude to my work, but this is the truth. Today this woman screamed and swore at someone about some photocopying...
Anyway, I went with my line manager and she paid for the majority of the expenses. £650 for a trip like this is quite normal I think. 2 single rooms at a premier inn, travel from London to Manchester peak hours, which isn't cheap either. Yes, this hadn't been budgeted correctly on cost forms, but that's no fault of my own, I didn't complete the cost forms... Both of us provided all evidence of receipts.
I'm not talking at all about suing, I don't want to do anything like that, just want to reiterate to them that legally they'd have to pay - I just hope that's the case...! Also, I don't want to be £200 out of pocket!
Yes, that would normally be the thing to do, only that we don't have access to a company credit card...
It's messed up I tell ya!
Yet that is exactly what you have done (albeit on an anonymized basis).
EDIT - Now twice (post #24)
Again, these decisions were taken out of my hands, I don't agree with the way my manager handled the situation, but I couldn't really do much about it...