My favourite TV show ever
Currently rewatching season 3... so GOOD!! (at times finding myself routing for the Major). Best season as a whole in my opinion.
Season 3 is definitely when they got it just about right in every department. So many fantastic episodes. It's a tremendous watch, and the season arc is just about perfect.
It was the first show that introduced me to the sci-fi/supernatural genre. I started watching from when it was in it's sixth season and then watched the seventh, then got given the complete series a few months later to see the 5 seasons i had missed
Fantastic show. It's a classic. Amazing writing. Fantastic cast. Underrated acting. It never went downhill and for me was as fresh as ever even in it's final season, which is rare for a show i feel.
Season 3 and 6 are my favorites
Anya and Willow are my favorite characters, as well as Faith, Harmony and Glory.
Completely jumping season 4 holds massive character moments that build into season 5...why on earth would they do that...plus there are so many classics in season 4 too...ugh! Damn. I hope they sort it out for you
Anyways glad you have enjoyed what you have seen thus far man
I don't know who you could skip season 4 really, it bridges the two halves (which are quite different in my opinion) of Buffy and sets up much of what happens in the later seasons.
Though it's an Angel question I might as well ask it here: Out of all the episodes of Angel how many episodes actually featured him (or anyone) doing any supernatural detective work? It's not a criticism of the show, but it occurred to me on a recent re-watch that, despite that being the initial premise of the show, he hardly does any.
Though it's an Angel question I might as well ask it here: Out of all the episodes of Angel how many episodes actually featured him (or anyone) doing any supernatural detective work? It's not a criticism of the show, but it occurred to me on a recent re-watch that, despite that being the initial premise of the show, he hardly does any.
i think he does a few,more so in the 1st season than the rest i think,angel inc seemed to lose interest after a while
Thats what i love aout Buffy it really brought millions of people and several generations together introduced to Supernatural/Sci Fi/Fantasy realms of entertainment...and to this day there has been no show that has touched it in terms of status nor perfection.
And about acting....Sarah is my favourite actress ever, and i have felt in recent times she has been so underused....but i read here on DS there is a sitcom or something starting up with her in it which i hope gets picked up...i feel that her comedic timing on the show was just perfection (well the whole cast really were just sublime) but with Sarah i hope it showcases that funnier side of her characters....so underrated....then again they all are really...even Alison is so very limited in her role on HIMYM which i find a TV disgrace IMO -_-.
In terms of season 3 i think my only complaint was the fact Angel when he was back had minimal to do really....but even then with these limitations it worked well leading to his goodbye to Sunnydale...plus so much action was giong on and changes to the main characters lives that Angel almost was completely sidelined and had enough emotional impact for all of us .
Season 4 i think is my personal favourite, seeing it mentioned here with the idea of getting the characters from A (High School) to B (adulthood) it really is a story that stemmed outward from the arc...while the initiative storyline is perhaps the weakest on the show, it showcased the fact that it didnt truly matter...the independant storylines and side stories from the arc were the most prominant. Plus the change ups with the characters were just plain electric....and it has my all time favourite episode This Years Girl/Who Are You?....but so so many exceptional episodes that season.
Speaking of which, i find it so hard to pick a least favourite episode...at their "worst" they are so damn enjoyable.
And in terms of Angel, i do think the minimalist approach to the Supernatural means of detection was perhaps why it took a while for me to grasp the show more than its parent series....but still
I don't know who you could skip season 4 really, it bridges the two halves (which are quite different in my opinion) of Buffy and sets up much of what happens in the later seasons.
Though it's an Angel question I might as well ask it here: Out of all the episodes of Angel how many episodes actually featured him (or anyone) doing any supernatural detective work? It's not a criticism of the show, but it occurred to me on a recent re-watch that, despite that being the initial premise of the show, he hardly does any.
That is how i thought of it too...Season 4 is the "The Journey" season in a way that had never been done before too. And you can tell from the direction and mood of that season it had a fresh beginning type style and a change in tempo readying up for what was to come for the next season into adulthood for the final two seasons :cool:
I've been re-watching Angel of late. Absolutely love Holtz -- I always get sad when he dies.
I also love Justine. I find Wesley keeping her locked in a cupboard quite disturbing. That's so messed up!
It's such a change for Wesley going from being a bumbling watcher in season three of Buffy, to the dark, disturbed character he becomes by season four of Angel.
...
Though it's an Angel question I might as well ask it here: Out of all the episodes of Angel how many episodes actually featured him (or anyone) doing any supernatural detective work? It's not a criticism of the show, but it occurred to me on a recent re-watch that, despite that being the initial premise of the show, he hardly does any.
He does quite a bit of that throughout season one to four, not so much in season five. I've noticed that Angel finds his clients (it seems) more than his clients find him (I could be wrong though).
Buffy ranks up there as my all time favourite show, and it's a crime when people ask "Why the hell?", when they haven't even watched it. It does admittedly have quite the quirky title, and could maybe give off the perception of being quite a sparkly, girly thing to anyone who was living in a cave during its time, but I don't know anyone who I've sat down to watch it, wasn't sad come it's conclusion.
It beats The X Files and Doctor Who for me, both of which I love, and I think the reason for that is it's immensely successful blend of absolutely everything that made a worthy show. The characters aren't always "likeable" in Buffy, and even the leading roles have bouts in which they are annoying, or even infuriating. The difference with Buffy was that this comes across as deliberate - the characters in the show are so fleshed out that you can figure out what to like and not to like about them. They all have their own mannerisms and personalities that few TV shows convey, and you can actually relate to them. Above all else though, not only was it a show that turned the monster/screaming girl ideal on its head, it was also the show that turned the genre on its head - the vampires and monsters are there, but they are always a component or a tool to the human drama that is unfolding. This is a genius blend that stops Buffy from falling into soap territory, but stops it from taking itself ridiculously seriously as a fantasy show.
The first three seasons were the 'High School' years, the final three seasons were the 'Home' years. The fourth season sits between the two a little uncomfortably but bridges the two set ups, and reflects the identity-searching Buffy went through as a character between teenager and adult.
Most people tend to have a preference to the earlier years or the later years - quite as often as they have a preference to Angel or Spike, actually. Doomsayers are usually more vocal when they have a disliking for the later seasons (as is the case with The X Files, or Doctor Who funnily enough) but I myself enjoy the show through and through.
Having to choose, I'd probably give preference to the latter seasons...more particularly the fifth and sixth seasons when I think the show was at its strongest. The combination of serious drama, hard hitting tragedy, comedy, dark comedy, poetic license (or musical license in one instance) and Whedonisms make these seasons my favourite, when all my favourite characters came together. Earlier seasons were also fantastic (if you have a Mayor Wilkins III in your season, you automatically win Sunnydale) and I missed the balance between main plot and standalone episodes that was gradually phased out a bit over time, but the relationship stuff almost reached the point of angsty saved only by Whedon's comedic timing in his scripts, and the fact that you always had Anthony Stewart Head to disrupt the American harmony in classic British style.
All in all, it was a show about a bunch of well written characters stabbing vampires and annually closing the mouth of hell. What couldn't anyone like about that?!
FAVOURITE SEASON
Season 5: It was a hard decision, and I nearly went for 6. But the dark turn the season takes after the departure of Riley was a welcome one. Glory was a brilliant "big bad", and the series real-to-life tragedy showed that just because you're dealt a bad card one day... it doesn't mean you can't be dealt a bad card the next day as well. The death of Joyce, followed by the death of Buffy herself, which would in turn be followed by Anya getting jilted, Willow's addiction, Warren's murder, Spike's attempted rape, and Tara's murder (all in S6) made you invested for the sanity of the characters.
FAVOURITE BIG BAD
I liked all of them really (Angelus is a tad overrated in my opinion, and Adam was disappointing beyond words - they should have made The First Slayer the big bad of that season) but top marks has to go to Mayor Wilkins III. Whilst Dark Willow was badass, The First Evil was initially a scary prospect, and Glory was a fabulous and powerful second-place baddie, Mayor Wilkins was simply the best. Why? He was the bad guy who wasn't quite a bad guy. He was quite a nice guy as a whole, whose plans didn't quite fit with everyone else, and unfortunately that did mean he would have to annihilate them all. But he had manners, he had hygiene in check, and then when he occasionally tried to be threatening or scary it bloody hell worked as it was so out of character for him. Genius.
SEASON 5 OR 7 AS THE "TRUE ENDING"
Some people think Season 5 should have served as the end of the show, and true from a plot perspective it would work. But not only are Seasons 6 and 7 really worth watching and I'd have missed them if they weren't there, it was nice to consider that we are watching the story of Buffy because she is a notable slayer - she died in noble fashion, but it wasn't without her resurrection and subsequent battle with The First Evil that would make her the slayer of stories down the generations. Seasons 6 and 7 were told, people need to deal with it.
LEAST FAVOURITE EPISODE/S
Whilst I love the whole run of episodes it would have to boil down to some of the werewolf stories as I didn't find them interesting, and the costumes are not convincing nor have they dated well at all. Pangs was another episode I didn't like as it tied in with an Angel plot, and for the life of me I cannot get into that show. A few more in Season 4, which is also my least favourite season, were a bit iffy. They either went too high on the angst factor, or were cheap trick stories that felt less progressive than what Seasons 2 or 3 offered.
FAVOURITE EPISODE
A harder question still, and ironically my favourite episode comes from my least favourite season. Restless was essentially the epilogue to Season 4, with the main story over it was an experimental piece that in retrospect was a genius way of setting up plot points that would unfold in the seasons to come. A keener eye will also note how this episode reminds us of even further back references to the likes of Dawn - who was referenced as early as Season 3 as "Little Miss Muffet". It's a bit of a marmite episode in that you either love it or you hate it, but I get something new out of watching it every time, and the dream aspect is beautifully realised - everything could have a deeper meaning that the most loyal of fans can only hope to try and figure out, but can never be certain as it could all be total nonsense - particularly that guy with the cheese! It also had a wonderful selection of music from Christophe Beck who left the show after this.
Buffy ranks up there as my all time favourite show, and it's a crime when people ask "Why the hell?", when they haven't even watched it. It does admittedly have quite the quirky title, and could maybe give off the perception of being quite a sparkly, girly thing to anyone who was living in a cave during its time, but I don't know anyone who I've sat down to watch it, wasn't sad come it's conclusion.
It beats The X Files and Doctor Who for me, both of which I love, and I think the reason for that is it's immensely successful blend of absolutely everything that made a worthy show. The characters aren't always "likeable" in Buffy, and even the leading roles have bouts in which they are annoying, or even infuriating. The difference with Buffy was that this comes across as deliberate - the characters in the show are so fleshed out that you can figure out what to like and not to like about them. They all have their own mannerisms and personalities that few TV shows convey, and you can actually relate to them. Above all else though, not only was it a show that turned the monster/screaming girl ideal on its head, it was also the show that turned the genre on its head - the vampires and monsters are there, but they are always a component or a tool to the human drama that is unfolding. This is a genius blend that stops Buffy from falling into soap territory, but stops it from taking itself ridiculously seriously as a fantasy show.
The first three seasons were the 'High School' years, the final three seasons were the 'Home' years. The fourth season sits between the two a little uncomfortably but bridges the two set ups, and reflects the identity-searching Buffy went through as a character between teenager and adult.
Most people tend to have a preference to the earlier years or the later years - quite as often as they have a preference to Angel or Spike, actually. Doomsayers are usually more vocal when they have a disliking for the later seasons (as is the case with The X Files, or Doctor Who funnily enough) but I myself enjoy the show through and through.
Having to choose, I'd probably give preference to the latter seasons...more particularly the fifth and sixth seasons when I think the show was at its strongest. The combination of serious drama, hard hitting tragedy, comedy, dark comedy, poetic license (or musical license in one instance) and Whedonisms make these seasons my favourite, when all my favourite characters came together. Earlier seasons were also fantastic (if you have a Mayor Wilkins III in your season, you automatically win Sunnydale) and I missed the balance between main plot and standalone episodes that was gradually phased out a bit over time, but the relationship stuff almost reached the point of angsty saved only by Whedon's comedic timing in his scripts, and the fact that you always had Anthony Stewart Head to disrupt the American harmony in classic British style.
All in all, it was a show about a bunch of well written characters stabbing vampires and annually closing the mouth of hell. What couldn't anyone like about that?!
FAVOURITE SEASON
Season 5: It was a hard decision, and I nearly went for 6. But the dark turn the season takes after the departure of Riley was a welcome one. Glory was a brilliant "big bad", and the series real-to-life tragedy showed that just because you're dealt a bad card one day... it doesn't mean you can't be dealt a bad card the next day as well. The death of Joyce, followed by the death of Buffy herself, which would in turn be followed by Anya getting jilted, Willow's addiction, Warren's murder, Spike's attempted rape, and Tara's murder (all in S6) made you invested for the sanity of the characters.
FAVOURITE BIG BAD
I liked all of them really (Angelus is a tad overrated in my opinion, and Adam was disappointing beyond words - they should have made The First Slayer the big bad of that season) but top marks has to go to Mayor Wilkins III. Whilst Dark Willow was badass, The First Evil was initially a scary prospect, and Glory was a fabulous and powerful second-place baddie, Mayor Wilkins was simply the best. Why? He was the bad guy who wasn't quite a bad guy. He was quite a nice guy as a whole, whose plans didn't quite fit with everyone else, and unfortunately that did mean he would have to annihilate them all. But he had manners, he had hygiene in check, and then when he occasionally tried to be threatening or scary it bloody hell worked as it was so out of character for him. Genius.
SEASON 5 OR 7 AS THE "TRUE ENDING"
Some people think Season 5 should have served as the end of the show, and true from a plot perspective it would work. But not only are Seasons 6 and 7 really worth watching and I'd have missed them if they weren't there, it was nice to consider that we are watching the story of Buffy because she is a notable slayer - she died in noble fashion, but it wasn't without her resurrection and subsequent battle with The First Evil that would make her the slayer of stories down the generations. Seasons 6 and 7 were told, people need to deal with it.
LEAST FAVOURITE EPISODE/S
Whilst I love the whole run of episodes it would have to boil down to some of the werewolf stories as I didn't find them interesting, and the costumes are not convincing nor have they dated well at all. Pangs was another episode I didn't like as it tied in with an Angel plot, and for the life of me I cannot get into that show. A few more in Season 4, which is also my least favourite season, were a bit iffy. They either went too high on the angst factor, or were cheap trick stories that felt less progressive than what Seasons 2 or 3 offered.
FAVOURITE EPISODE
A harder question still, and ironically my favourite episode comes from my least favourite season. Restless was essentially the epilogue to Season 4, with the main story over it was an experimental piece that in retrospect was a genius way of setting up plot points that would unfold in the seasons to come. A keener eye will also note how this episode reminds us of even further back references to the likes of Dawn - who was referenced as early as Season 3 as "Little Miss Muffet". It's a bit of a marmite episode in that you either love it or you hate it, but I get something new out of watching it every time, and the dream aspect is beautifully realised - everything could have a deeper meaning that the most loyal of fans can only hope to try and figure out, but can never be certain as it could all be total nonsense - particularly that guy with the cheese! It also had a wonderful selection of music from Christophe Beck who left the show after this.
Wow, long post
Long but otherwise a fantastic read through.
Interesting what you say about the "season 4 big bad" ironically season 4 (being the mid-point of the show) the "big bad" really didnt matter in the scheme of things, sure it offered a Sci-Fi template otherwise "alien" to the Buffyverse and the concept of the initiative is very interesting and unnerving but i lvoe the idea of The First Slayer being the real big bad for season 4....the main presence that always made sure Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles went on their journey in season 4 and made sure they defeated Adam utilising the spell that united then as the Fab 4/Scoobies and had to endure. Restless is a beautiful episode...and ironically for all the reasons you give season 4 as your least favourite i think more and more thats why for me anyhow i choose it as my favourite (although there is little between them they are all 10/10 standard) so many sublime episodes and directions across it.
And true i loathe the fact some people in the mainstream failed to see Buffy The Vampire Slayer beyond the quirky title....and in many ways that is the magic of the show too It is a show that has influenced the majority of "Cult shows" and mainstream shows we have on circulation now (Desperate Housewives, Supernatural, True Blood, Doctor Who 2005 - present, Charmed, Vampire DIaries, not to mention many films that spun structure out and turned stylistically concepts inside out that owe Buffy many thanks).
Speaking of which Whedon really is still on top form...Cabin In The Woods i watched over the Christmas he made with Drew goddard and man that is a fantastic film that turned all Horror Conventions on its head...ironically the main cast not only borrowed cast from other Whedonverse projects but also have so many similarities to Buffy and even Scooby Doo characters....definitely check it out if you havent already .
For me rupert giles held the series together from the first episode till the last.
He started off a stuffy stumbling english librarian but as the seasons went on he became a badass & a father figure to the gang.
Anthony stewart head played him to perfection,from moments of sadness to joking & messing around with the group,the later seasons he had some great 1 liners.
always giving advice,always there for the gang.
Once the school blew up i felt there wasn't much for him to do & he just appeared for the sake of it..taking the little break he had i think helped the character.
i could write more but i won't,could go on for hours talking about buffy the vampire slayer:D
For me rupert giles held the series together from the first episode till the last.
He started off a stuffy stumbling english librarian but as the seasons went on he became a badass & a father figure to the gang.
Anthony stewart head played him to perfection,from moments of sadness to joking & messing around with the group,the later seasons he had some great 1 liners.
always giving advice,always there for the gang.
Once the school blew up i felt there wasn't much for him to do & he just appeared for the sake of it..taking the little break he had i think helped the character.
i could write more but i won't,could go on for hours talking about buffy the vampire slayer:D
He had superb timing...no other role will define Anthony better than that of Giles he was missed when he went MIA in season 6 but i agree i think that helped the characters as well as himself grow too. Mind you i do love the way he was utilised in season 4 and 5 when they used his house as a base and of course the Magic Box.
Season 5 was the best for me , the whole new sister storyline and Glory the campest baddie ever , just wish we'd seen her killing a lot more people . Season 3 with the intro of Faith was incredible . I even loved the nerds in season 6 . I have to say it's the only show that i've ever rewatched in it's entirety over and over and i'm now in my 50's .
Great new thread. I received Buffy seasons 1-7 on DVD for Christmas and so completing my first proper full rewatch (previously had Seasons 1-5 on VHS). Really loving it, though I had forgotten just how much of a bitca Buffy was in "When She Was Bad"... I have a dilemma when season 4 comes, though. Do I watch Buffy and Angel 'classically', with an episode of Buffy then one of Angel, or do I just do a complete rewatch of Angel after Buffy... Decisons...
I'm in the process of a bit of a Buffy and Angel fest at the moment. I've been rewatching my Buffy and Angel box sets (currently on Buffy Season 6 / Angel Season 3).
I'm also re-reading all my Buffy and Angel comics and trying to pin down any I might be missing. There's a really confusing number of different titles!
I don't know if I can tie down a favourite season, really. Each season had its good and its bad but I find I can't really be bothered to analyse it. I'm just going with the flow and enjoying every minute
Season 5 was the best for me , the whole new sister storyline and Glory the campest baddie ever , just wish we'd seen her killing a lot more people . Season 3 with the intro of Faith was incredible . I even loved the nerds in season 6 . I have to say it's the only show that i've ever rewatched in it's entirety over and over and i'm now in my 50's .
I love when i speak to older fans of the show...again proving how multi-generational and the cross appeal Buffy has had really...supporting the arguement too that Buffy was a show much in line with other cult phenomenons like Star Trek, Doctor WHo and The X Files....just wish there was something out there merchandise wise marketing it like those respective shows but hey...comics will do :cool:
Great new thread. I received Buffy seasons 1-7 on DVD for Christmas and so completing my first proper full rewatch (previously had Seasons 1-5 on VHS). Really loving it, though I had forgotten just how much of a bitca Buffy was in "When She Was Bad"... I have a dilemma when season 4 comes, though. Do I watch Buffy and Angel 'classically', with an episode of Buffy then one of Angel, or do I just do a complete rewatch of Angel after Buffy... Decisons...
Oh yes i loved buying the Vhs of it with the pictures on each video cover on the side panel and part 1 and 2 of the box set made the full picture...clever marketing
And yes Sarah really played that well...i loved that unhinged-ness Buffy put forward and how aggressive she was in When She Was Bad...electric!
Its up to you..either go for it Buffy style beginning to end and then do Angel (what i most likely would do...keeps the pace going for Buffy really) and then watch Angel afterwards with their own arcs and stuff
I love when i speak to older fans of the show...again proving how multi-generational and the cross appeal Buffy has had really...supporting the arguement too that Buffy was a show much in line with other cult phenomenons like Star Trek, Doctor WHo and The X Files....just wish there was something out there merchandise wise marketing it like those respective shows but hey...comics will do :cool:
I remember watching the movie version when I was in my early thirties and still haven't got the taste out of my mouth . The TV series though was a totally different proposition , I can honestly feel at this point that i'll be dipping in and out of them for the next 20 years .
Great new thread. I received Buffy seasons 1-7 on DVD for Christmas and so completing my first proper full rewatch (previously had Seasons 1-5 on VHS). Really loving it, though I had forgotten just how much of a bitca Buffy was in "When She Was Bad"... I have a dilemma when season 4 comes, though. Do I watch Buffy and Angel 'classically', with an episode of Buffy then one of Angel, or do I just do a complete rewatch of Angel after Buffy... Decisons...
I'm using one of the online viewing guides to determine the order:
I remember watching the movie version when I was in my early thirties and still haven't got the taste out of my mouth . The TV series though was a totally different proposition , I can honestly feel at this point that i'll be dipping in and out of them for the next 20 years .
Yes, the studio interfered so much with the 1992 movie AND not only that but the team he worked with didnt uderstand his vision and rediculed it...therefore the final product was so many times removed from the concept initially had...although thank goodness tbh because the show may not have been conceptualised 5 years later had it not flopped.
Although tbh it is not a "terrible film" its just really not "Buffy"...also i cannot imagine anyone else in the role either...Sarah IS Buffy :cool:
It tends to watch a disk of each at a time so you still get the flow but it makes sure you get the crossovers in the right order.
I'd generally agree with most ideas for watching Buffy Season 4/ Angel Season 1...but I think the other seasons are more problematic. The schedule in that link really is weighted to save changing discs regularly, which I don't think is good enough justification frankly! I'd also strongly disagree with starting Buffy Season 6 before Angel Season 3, as seeing Angel mope about Buffy (when she's already been resurrected) is a bit daft.
The way below is the routine I tried last year (alternating days for each show) and it worked very well in keeping the crossovers in check...but also preserving some semblance of story and allowing the arcs in either series to develop well.
(Season 5 of Buffy / Season 2 of Angel)
Watch 1 episode of Buffy, 1 episode of Angel...UNTIL the segment below. The idea here is to add more weight to Buffy's sacrifice by making her gone a lot longer than a day or two in your rewatch. Also the Angel finale has to chronologically take place after, so it makes sense to run the mini-Pylea arc together.
136 (A) Dead End
137 (B) Tough Love
138 (B) Spiral
139 (B) The Weight of the World
140 (B) The Gift
141 (A) Belonging
142 (A) Over the Rainbow
143 (A) Through the Looking Glass
144 (A) There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb
(Season 6 of Buffy / Season 3 of Angel)
Again, keeping Buffy off-screen as long as possible to add some weight to the S5 finale, keep watching Angel. This also allows the crossover when he discovers her return.
145 (A) Heartthrob
146 (A) That Vision Thing
147 (B) Bargaining, Part 1
148 (B) Bargaining, Part 2
149 (A) That Old Gang Of Mine
(then 1 episode of Buffy followed by 1 episode of Angel until this segment below. It's kind of the inverse of the last seasons in that, this time, it's Angel whose fate at the end of Angel season 3 is ambiguous and so we need to wrap up his stuff and let him disappear for a bit. I also like having a mini-Buffy-break after the almighty cliff-hanger of Seeing Red)
182 (B) Seeing Red
183 (A) A New World
184 (A) Benediction
185 (A) Tomorrow
186 (B) Villains
187 (B) Two to Go ( Part 1 of 2)
188 (B) Grave ( Part 2 of 2)
(Season 7 of Buffy/ Season 4 of Angel is far more complicated owing to cross-overs with Angel, Willow and Faith, so in full)
189 (B) Lessons
190 (A) Beneath You
191 (A) Deep Down
192 (B) Same Time, Same Place
193 (A) Ground State
194 (B) Help
195 (A) The House Always Wins
196 (B) Selfless
197 (A) Slouching Toward Bethlehem
198 (A) Supersymmentry
199 (B) Him
200 (A) Spin The Bottle
201 (B) Conversations with Dead people
202 (A) Apocalypse, Nowish
203 (B) Sleeper
204 (B) Never Leave Me
205 (B) Bring On the Night
206 (B) Showtime
207 (A) Habeas Corpses
208 (B) Potential
209 (A) Long Day's Journey
210 (A) Awakening
212 (A) Soulless
214 (A) Calvary
215 (B) Get It Done
216 (B) Storyteller
217 (A) Salvage
218 (A) Release
219 (B) Lies My Parents Told Me
220 (A) Orpheus
221 (A) Players
222 (A) Inside Out
223 (A) Shiny Happy People
224 (B) Dirty Girls
225 (A) Magic Bullet
226 (A) Sacrifice
227 (B) Empty Places
228 (A) Peace Out
229 (B) Touched
230 (A) Home
231 (B) End of Days
232 (B) Chosen
I'd only suggest you watch the shows like this (ie. alternating them) once, by the way. As much as I like Angel, I rate Buffy among all over shows so I was always a bit disappointed when it was an "Angel day".
The way below is the routine I tried last year (alternating days for each show) and it worked very well in keeping the crossovers in check...but also preserving some semblance of story and allowing the arcs in either series to develop well.
To be honest the movie is okay and not nearly as bad as portrayed...but i think when you put it into context with the show a few years later it definitely feels like it never existed....but still it has its perks and it set up something defining to branch out from I tend to pretend its Sarah as Buffy however :cool:
Comments
Currently rewatching season 3... so GOOD!! (at times finding myself routing for the Major). Best season as a whole in my opinion.
It was the first show that introduced me to the sci-fi/supernatural genre. I started watching from when it was in it's sixth season and then watched the seventh, then got given the complete series a few months later to see the 5 seasons i had missed
Fantastic show. It's a classic. Amazing writing. Fantastic cast. Underrated acting. It never went downhill and for me was as fresh as ever even in it's final season, which is rare for a show i feel.
Season 3 and 6 are my favorites
Anya and Willow are my favorite characters, as well as Faith, Harmony and Glory.
I don't know who you could skip season 4 really, it bridges the two halves (which are quite different in my opinion) of Buffy and sets up much of what happens in the later seasons.
Though it's an Angel question I might as well ask it here: Out of all the episodes of Angel how many episodes actually featured him (or anyone) doing any supernatural detective work? It's not a criticism of the show, but it occurred to me on a recent re-watch that, despite that being the initial premise of the show, he hardly does any.
i think he does a few,more so in the 1st season than the rest i think,angel inc seemed to lose interest after a while
And about acting....Sarah is my favourite actress ever, and i have felt in recent times she has been so underused....but i read here on DS there is a sitcom or something starting up with her in it which i hope gets picked up...i feel that her comedic timing on the show was just perfection (well the whole cast really were just sublime) but with Sarah i hope it showcases that funnier side of her characters....so underrated....then again they all are really...even Alison is so very limited in her role on HIMYM which i find a TV disgrace IMO -_-.
In terms of season 3 i think my only complaint was the fact Angel when he was back had minimal to do really....but even then with these limitations it worked well leading to his goodbye to Sunnydale...plus so much action was giong on and changes to the main characters lives that Angel almost was completely sidelined and had enough emotional impact for all of us
Season 4 i think is my personal favourite, seeing it mentioned here with the idea of getting the characters from A (High School) to B (adulthood) it really is a story that stemmed outward from the arc...while the initiative storyline is perhaps the weakest on the show, it showcased the fact that it didnt truly matter...the independant storylines and side stories from the arc were the most prominant. Plus the change ups with the characters were just plain electric....and it has my all time favourite episode This Years Girl/Who Are You?....but so so many exceptional episodes that season.
Speaking of which, i find it so hard to pick a least favourite episode...at their "worst" they are so damn enjoyable.
And in terms of Angel, i do think the minimalist approach to the Supernatural means of detection was perhaps why it took a while for me to grasp the show more than its parent series....but still
That is how i thought of it too...Season 4 is the "The Journey" season in a way that had never been done before too. And you can tell from the direction and mood of that season it had a fresh beginning type style and a change in tempo readying up for what was to come for the next season into adulthood for the final two seasons :cool:
I also love Justine. I find Wesley keeping her locked in a cupboard quite disturbing. That's so messed up!
It's such a change for Wesley going from being a bumbling watcher in season three of Buffy, to the dark, disturbed character he becomes by season four of Angel.
He does quite a bit of that throughout season one to four, not so much in season five. I've noticed that Angel finds his clients (it seems) more than his clients find him (I could be wrong though).
It beats The X Files and Doctor Who for me, both of which I love, and I think the reason for that is it's immensely successful blend of absolutely everything that made a worthy show. The characters aren't always "likeable" in Buffy, and even the leading roles have bouts in which they are annoying, or even infuriating. The difference with Buffy was that this comes across as deliberate - the characters in the show are so fleshed out that you can figure out what to like and not to like about them. They all have their own mannerisms and personalities that few TV shows convey, and you can actually relate to them. Above all else though, not only was it a show that turned the monster/screaming girl ideal on its head, it was also the show that turned the genre on its head - the vampires and monsters are there, but they are always a component or a tool to the human drama that is unfolding. This is a genius blend that stops Buffy from falling into soap territory, but stops it from taking itself ridiculously seriously as a fantasy show.
The first three seasons were the 'High School' years, the final three seasons were the 'Home' years. The fourth season sits between the two a little uncomfortably but bridges the two set ups, and reflects the identity-searching Buffy went through as a character between teenager and adult.
Most people tend to have a preference to the earlier years or the later years - quite as often as they have a preference to Angel or Spike, actually. Doomsayers are usually more vocal when they have a disliking for the later seasons (as is the case with The X Files, or Doctor Who funnily enough) but I myself enjoy the show through and through.
Having to choose, I'd probably give preference to the latter seasons...more particularly the fifth and sixth seasons when I think the show was at its strongest. The combination of serious drama, hard hitting tragedy, comedy, dark comedy, poetic license (or musical license in one instance) and Whedonisms make these seasons my favourite, when all my favourite characters came together. Earlier seasons were also fantastic (if you have a Mayor Wilkins III in your season, you automatically win Sunnydale) and I missed the balance between main plot and standalone episodes that was gradually phased out a bit over time, but the relationship stuff almost reached the point of angsty saved only by Whedon's comedic timing in his scripts, and the fact that you always had Anthony Stewart Head to disrupt the American harmony in classic British style.
All in all, it was a show about a bunch of well written characters stabbing vampires and annually closing the mouth of hell. What couldn't anyone like about that?!
FAVOURITE SEASON
Season 5: It was a hard decision, and I nearly went for 6. But the dark turn the season takes after the departure of Riley was a welcome one. Glory was a brilliant "big bad", and the series real-to-life tragedy showed that just because you're dealt a bad card one day... it doesn't mean you can't be dealt a bad card the next day as well. The death of Joyce, followed by the death of Buffy herself, which would in turn be followed by Anya getting jilted, Willow's addiction, Warren's murder, Spike's attempted rape, and Tara's murder (all in S6) made you invested for the sanity of the characters.
FAVOURITE BIG BAD
I liked all of them really (Angelus is a tad overrated in my opinion, and Adam was disappointing beyond words - they should have made The First Slayer the big bad of that season) but top marks has to go to Mayor Wilkins III. Whilst Dark Willow was badass, The First Evil was initially a scary prospect, and Glory was a fabulous and powerful second-place baddie, Mayor Wilkins was simply the best. Why? He was the bad guy who wasn't quite a bad guy. He was quite a nice guy as a whole, whose plans didn't quite fit with everyone else, and unfortunately that did mean he would have to annihilate them all. But he had manners, he had hygiene in check, and then when he occasionally tried to be threatening or scary it bloody hell worked as it was so out of character for him. Genius.
SEASON 5 OR 7 AS THE "TRUE ENDING"
Some people think Season 5 should have served as the end of the show, and true from a plot perspective it would work. But not only are Seasons 6 and 7 really worth watching and I'd have missed them if they weren't there, it was nice to consider that we are watching the story of Buffy because she is a notable slayer - she died in noble fashion, but it wasn't without her resurrection and subsequent battle with The First Evil that would make her the slayer of stories down the generations. Seasons 6 and 7 were told, people need to deal with it.
LEAST FAVOURITE EPISODE/S
Whilst I love the whole run of episodes it would have to boil down to some of the werewolf stories as I didn't find them interesting, and the costumes are not convincing nor have they dated well at all. Pangs was another episode I didn't like as it tied in with an Angel plot, and for the life of me I cannot get into that show. A few more in Season 4, which is also my least favourite season, were a bit iffy. They either went too high on the angst factor, or were cheap trick stories that felt less progressive than what Seasons 2 or 3 offered.
FAVOURITE EPISODE
A harder question still, and ironically my favourite episode comes from my least favourite season. Restless was essentially the epilogue to Season 4, with the main story over it was an experimental piece that in retrospect was a genius way of setting up plot points that would unfold in the seasons to come. A keener eye will also note how this episode reminds us of even further back references to the likes of Dawn - who was referenced as early as Season 3 as "Little Miss Muffet". It's a bit of a marmite episode in that you either love it or you hate it, but I get something new out of watching it every time, and the dream aspect is beautifully realised - everything could have a deeper meaning that the most loyal of fans can only hope to try and figure out, but can never be certain as it could all be total nonsense - particularly that guy with the cheese! It also had a wonderful selection of music from Christophe Beck who left the show after this.
Long but otherwise a fantastic read through.
Interesting what you say about the "season 4 big bad" ironically season 4 (being the mid-point of the show) the "big bad" really didnt matter in the scheme of things, sure it offered a Sci-Fi template otherwise "alien" to the Buffyverse and the concept of the initiative is very interesting and unnerving but i lvoe the idea of The First Slayer being the real big bad for season 4....the main presence that always made sure Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles went on their journey in season 4 and made sure they defeated Adam utilising the spell that united then as the Fab 4/Scoobies and had to endure. Restless is a beautiful episode...and ironically for all the reasons you give season 4 as your least favourite i think more and more thats why for me anyhow i choose it as my favourite (although there is little between them they are all 10/10 standard) so many sublime episodes and directions across it.
And true i loathe the fact some people in the mainstream failed to see Buffy The Vampire Slayer beyond the quirky title....and in many ways that is the magic of the show too
Speaking of which Whedon really is still on top form...Cabin In The Woods i watched over the Christmas he made with Drew goddard and man that is a fantastic film that turned all Horror Conventions on its head...ironically the main cast not only borrowed cast from other Whedonverse projects but also have so many similarities to Buffy and even Scooby Doo characters....definitely check it out if you havent already
But a fantastic and interesting overview
He started off a stuffy stumbling english librarian but as the seasons went on he became a badass & a father figure to the gang.
Anthony stewart head played him to perfection,from moments of sadness to joking & messing around with the group,the later seasons he had some great 1 liners.
his comedy timing was always perfect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1KJ-ahRQW8
always giving advice,always there for the gang.
Once the school blew up i felt there wasn't much for him to do & he just appeared for the sake of it..taking the little break he had i think helped the character.
i could write more but i won't,could go on for hours talking about buffy the vampire slayer:D
He had superb timing...no other role will define Anthony better than that of Giles he was missed when he went MIA in season 6 but i agree i think that helped the characters as well as himself grow too. Mind you i do love the way he was utilised in season 4 and 5 when they used his house as a base and of course the Magic Box.
I'm also re-reading all my Buffy and Angel comics and trying to pin down any I might be missing. There's a really confusing number of different titles!
I don't know if I can tie down a favourite season, really. Each season had its good and its bad but I find I can't really be bothered to analyse it. I'm just going with the flow and enjoying every minute
I love when i speak to older fans of the show...again proving how multi-generational and the cross appeal Buffy has had really...supporting the arguement too that Buffy was a show much in line with other cult phenomenons like Star Trek, Doctor WHo and The X Files....just wish there was something out there merchandise wise marketing it like those respective shows but hey...comics will do :cool:
Oh yes i loved buying the Vhs of it with the pictures on each video cover on the side panel and part 1 and 2 of the box set made the full picture...clever marketing
And yes Sarah really played that well...i loved that unhinged-ness Buffy put forward and how aggressive she was in When She Was Bad...electric!
Its up to you..either go for it Buffy style beginning to end and then do Angel (what i most likely would do...keeps the pace going for Buffy really) and then watch Angel afterwards with their own arcs and stuff
I remember watching the movie version when I was in my early thirties and still haven't got the taste out of my mouth . The TV series though was a totally different proposition , I can honestly feel at this point that i'll be dipping in and out of them for the next 20 years .
I'm using one of the online viewing guides to determine the order:
http://www.squidoo.com/buffy_angel_viewing_guide
It tends to watch a disk of each at a time so you still get the flow but it makes sure you get the crossovers in the right order.
Yes, the studio interfered so much with the 1992 movie AND not only that but the team he worked with didnt uderstand his vision and rediculed it...therefore the final product was so many times removed from the concept initially had...although thank goodness tbh because the show may not have been conceptualised 5 years later had it not flopped.
Although tbh it is not a "terrible film" its just really not "Buffy"...also i cannot imagine anyone else in the role either...Sarah IS Buffy :cool:
Guess i'm easily pleased
I'd generally agree with most ideas for watching Buffy Season 4/ Angel Season 1...but I think the other seasons are more problematic. The schedule in that link really is weighted to save changing discs regularly, which I don't think is good enough justification frankly! I'd also strongly disagree with starting Buffy Season 6 before Angel Season 3, as seeing Angel mope about Buffy (when she's already been resurrected) is a bit daft.
The way below is the routine I tried last year (alternating days for each show) and it worked very well in keeping the crossovers in check...but also preserving some semblance of story and allowing the arcs in either series to develop well.
(Season 5 of Buffy / Season 2 of Angel)
Watch 1 episode of Buffy, 1 episode of Angel...UNTIL the segment below. The idea here is to add more weight to Buffy's sacrifice by making her gone a lot longer than a day or two in your rewatch. Also the Angel finale has to chronologically take place after, so it makes sense to run the mini-Pylea arc together.
136 (A) Dead End
137 (B) Tough Love
138 (B) Spiral
139 (B) The Weight of the World
140 (B) The Gift
141 (A) Belonging
142 (A) Over the Rainbow
143 (A) Through the Looking Glass
144 (A) There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb
(Season 6 of Buffy / Season 3 of Angel)
Again, keeping Buffy off-screen as long as possible to add some weight to the S5 finale, keep watching Angel. This also allows the crossover when he discovers her return.
145 (A) Heartthrob
146 (A) That Vision Thing
147 (B) Bargaining, Part 1
148 (B) Bargaining, Part 2
149 (A) That Old Gang Of Mine
(then 1 episode of Buffy followed by 1 episode of Angel until this segment below. It's kind of the inverse of the last seasons in that, this time, it's Angel whose fate at the end of Angel season 3 is ambiguous and so we need to wrap up his stuff and let him disappear for a bit. I also like having a mini-Buffy-break after the almighty cliff-hanger of Seeing Red)
182 (B) Seeing Red
183 (A) A New World
184 (A) Benediction
185 (A) Tomorrow
186 (B) Villains
187 (B) Two to Go ( Part 1 of 2)
188 (B) Grave ( Part 2 of 2)
(Season 7 of Buffy/ Season 4 of Angel is far more complicated owing to cross-overs with Angel, Willow and Faith, so in full)
189 (B) Lessons
190 (A) Beneath You
191 (A) Deep Down
192 (B) Same Time, Same Place
193 (A) Ground State
194 (B) Help
195 (A) The House Always Wins
196 (B) Selfless
197 (A) Slouching Toward Bethlehem
198 (A) Supersymmentry
199 (B) Him
200 (A) Spin The Bottle
201 (B) Conversations with Dead people
202 (A) Apocalypse, Nowish
203 (B) Sleeper
204 (B) Never Leave Me
205 (B) Bring On the Night
206 (B) Showtime
207 (A) Habeas Corpses
208 (B) Potential
209 (A) Long Day's Journey
210 (A) Awakening
212 (A) Soulless
214 (A) Calvary
215 (B) Get It Done
216 (B) Storyteller
217 (A) Salvage
218 (A) Release
219 (B) Lies My Parents Told Me
220 (A) Orpheus
221 (A) Players
222 (A) Inside Out
223 (A) Shiny Happy People
224 (B) Dirty Girls
225 (A) Magic Bullet
226 (A) Sacrifice
227 (B) Empty Places
228 (A) Peace Out
229 (B) Touched
230 (A) Home
231 (B) End of Days
232 (B) Chosen
I'd only suggest you watch the shows like this (ie. alternating them) once, by the way. As much as I like Angel, I rate Buffy among all over shows so I was always a bit disappointed when it was an "Angel day".
Thanks for that, I'll give it a try.
To be honest the movie is okay and not nearly as bad as portrayed...but i think when you put it into context with the show a few years later it definitely feels like it never existed....but still it has its perks and it set up something defining to branch out from