County Cricket 2013

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  • FroodFrood Posts: 13,180
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    triton333 wrote: »
    Do you think Viv Richards, for example, was bad for Somerset and county cricket? (On the spectator side, living in Taunton at the time would have been my idea of cricket heaven.)

    Ask yourself if there were young English batsmen who didn;t take responsibility because "Viv will do it"?

    And far lesser overseas players would have a similar effect.

    And playing County cricket was very good for Viv, Gordon, Clive, Malcolm, Anderson, Alvin.....................
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    Many strands and variables being discussed above and many I've ranted / commented (delete as appropriate :D) before.

    I think that although at First-Class County level, the clubs are being as creative and smart as they ever have been, not only are they fighting the ubiquitous power of football and 24 hour non stop TV / sport but they are losing the battle against international cricket being seen by most of the cricket world as the area of the game which certainly gets all the coverage if not being a reflection of fans' interest.

    A recent article I saw on Warwickshire's finances showed how this 'big' county's financial health is now largely dependent on which international matches and more importantly, opposition are scheduled to visit and whether or not it rains. A vast swing in the bank balance can be felt by a few days of rain and whether it's India or the West Indies visiting.

    Also, as seen at places like the new Old Trafford, the necessity to generate non cricket revenue from the facility, a wise move at any time, in some ways also shifts the focus away from the core reason for the facility's existence in the first place.

    Thankfully, the outfield at OT has not been ruined since that concert in 2007 and a good thing too but look at the interview with Lancashire's new Chief Executive (the guy who has taken over from an increasingly worn out looking Jim Cumbes) on the Lanky website and it's clear that in the past, cricket has been run by ex-cricketers who may not really know about how to run businesses to people who are fundamentally business people now in charge of cricket clubs but who may not really have a clue about the heart and spirit of the organisations they represent.

    Neither is perfect.

    On overseas players, there is a very interesting book called
    The Enemy Within which tried to evaluate the impact of overseas players from the mid 1960's to the mid 1980's.

    The book's conclusions were right down the middle; in some cases the OP's were great for income and local development but in a number of cases, they weren't. It was all a rather random case of circumstances at any given County and the personality of the OP in question.

    For me, as with the dog's breakfast which is today's schedule, I think the current modus operandi for OP's is a mess.

    If it's difficult enough to follow the schedule, you then have to keep track of which OP is in the side at any given time.

    Also, while the central contracts have definetly improved England as a force in the international game, what does it say if a one major County like Surrey can't even find a local player to be their Captain? Percy Fender, and Alec Bedser must be turning in their graves.

    Mind you, this is the County who actually used a man with the right surname but who was the wrong person to Captain their matches for a while just after 1945.

    And not only has Graeme Smith been imported to perform the role but he can't even do it for the whole season and Ricky Ponting has been contracted to fill the gaps.

    We now hear that T20 is tired and needs an overhaul and a committee has been set up to look at it.

    ECB, save the time and money. Just cut down the number of games. It's a matter of demand and supply and you've milked it for too long. Accept it, make some simple changes and move on.

    Must we really go through all the arguments about City teams again?

    I love T20 cricket and having watched Lancashire a few times last season where I saw at least 4 outstanding matches of the 6 I watched.

    We don't need to paint over all the current packaging and razzamattaz with another coat of Big Bashness or anything similar.

    The product is terrific; it's what surrounds it which is the problem alongside the fact that there is too much of it and it completely mucks up the heart of the season.

    And please, cut out the music once the cricket starts. We don't need to watch our cricket in the atmosphere of a kid's disco.

    http://www.goalsandwickets.co.uk/cricket/cricket-editorial/ding-dong-has-t20-cricket-2012-style-become-just-a-bit-of-a-laugh/

    Let's hope that the recent survey comes up with something simple and understandable as far as the schedule is concerned.

    As far as all the rest is concerned, I suppose the powers that be will bumble along and change some stuff for the good while changing some of the good stuff for more bad. Bearing in mind that the first discussions about One-Day competitions actually took place 100 years before the Gillette Cup actually came into existence, I won't be holding my breath on any of it.

    http://www.goalsandwickets.co.uk/cricket/cricket-editorial/fancy-a-dogs-breakfast-warwickshire-successfully-navigate-county-crickets-confusing-and-frustrating-schedule/
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    Frood wrote: »
    Ask yourself if there were young English batsmen who didn;t take responsibility because "Viv will do it"?

    And far lesser overseas players would have a similar effect.

    And playing County cricket was very good for Viv, Gordon, Clive, Malcolm, Anderson, Alvin.....................

    Based on what I posted above, I reckon that probably we could put Viv into the category of a [ppsitive OP who had generally very good impact on his County and those around him.

    I think a factor here was that he was quite young when he arrived at Taunton and grew with Rose's team alongside the likes of Rose himself, Denning, Slocombe Roebuck and Botham, of course.

    On the other hand, it is a very difficult thing to quantify as how do we know what local players would have done had the OP star not been there?

    Equally, how can we evaluate how much better the local players performed as a result of being inspired by their OP?
  • dtcdtcdtcdtcdtcdtc Posts: 16,991
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    Some good points there Tennisman
    I'm glad we had Clive Lloyd and Farouk Engineer. For me, they defined Lancs when I was growing up
    I was listening to tms this morning and Aggers was chatting about Leics being in Division 2 and not likely to get promoted as they lose their star/ better players to Division One teams.
    He mentioned , though, how profitable it is for them. Everytime Broad or Taylor play for England, Leics get a cheque from the ECB as they were the team that developed them.
    Didn't know that.
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    dtcdtcdtc wrote: »
    Some good points there Tennisman
    I'm glad we had Clive Lloyd and Farouk Engineer. For me, they defined Lancs when I was growing up
    I was listening to tms this morning and Aggers was chatting about Leics being in Division 2 and not likely to get promoted as they lose their star/ better players to Division One teams.
    He mentioned , though, how profitable it is for them. Everytime Broad or Taylor play for England, Leics get a cheque from the ECB as they were the team that developed them.
    Didn't know that.

    Thanks.

    Whether right or UTTERLY WRONG, if I were given all of the above for one day and given 8 hours to make decisions and restructure / amend / adjust everything, I know what I'd do.

    But it's easy sitting at a computer!!!

    Here is a fascinating post from Cricinfo about Leicestershire's finances and it reinforces the volatility of this area.

    Due to the strong Asian heritage population in Leicester, a one-day game against India generated huge revenues; the same against another country would hardly generate anything at all.

    The prize money for winning T20 is better than nothing but is peanuts really; less than a week's wages for a Frank Lampard!

    Also, see that huge chunk of cash donated by members; must be some wealthy members in the beautiful fields of the County.

    On the OP issue, is it any wonder Lloyd and Engineer became Lancastrians as they lived and played for the County for many years (Lloyd also playing in the Lancashire League for Haslingden) as opposed to dropping in and out for 4 weeks here, a T20 match there; playing for 3 other Counties and then returning 5 years later.

    I love all the Pakistani all rounders (Abdur Razzak, Azer Mahmoud, Yasser Arafat, Rana Navid etc) but really they are a cadre of guns for hire who earn a good crust going from County to County. But attachment? Fans / members will just be getting used to them when they will be walking out to bat playing for the opposition.

    Not their fault, but all part of the current MO where Counties feel they have to have one, a bit like with West Indian quicks who could bat at #7 in the 1980's.

    People go on about the need for money which is self evident but as an ex corporate marketing person, I reckon it's all very commercial but often it's bad marketing not good.

    On the England Cricket 2013 thread started yesterday, I notice that there are 2 test against the Kiwis. How is this a series?

    I'd combine all the formats in a points system and there would be a minimum of 3 tests, 3 ODI's and 3 T20's to at least make competitive series. I can imagine my American friend who is trying to get into cricket responding to me telling him that the test series between England and NZ was drawn not because they did draw but because they only played 2 matches.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2012/content/story/552484.html
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,517
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    Tennisman makes a mention of Surrey appointing the wrong captain in 1946. This is a quite true and very amusing story, They had to appoint an amatuer and one of the committee suggested a Major Bennett. However they wrote to a Major Lionel Bennett, who was not the person they had in mind .

    Lionel Bennett had played a few games for Surrey seconds in 1936, so he wasn't totally useless , and in fact scored 688 runs that season ( 1946) with 4 fifties . He was out of his depth as a captain though , and had to rely on the senior pros to advise him.

    In the 1920s and 30s even teams like Lancashire and Yorkshire appointed , usually for the odd game, amatuers who were way short of first class standard , and the teams were in effect captained by a senior pro
  • connor the judgconnor the judg Posts: 8,961
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    does anyone know if sky sports have any county championship matches on this year. would love them to have Warwickshire matches on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,670
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    does anyone know if sky sports have any county championship matches on this year. would love them to have Warwickshire matches on

    http://www1.skysports.com/cricket/news/12040/8512333/Sky-Sports-will-show-60-live-county-games-this-summer-plus-England-s-Ashes-warm-up-at-Essex

    There you go, and you are in luck, Warwickshire are the one confirmed CC match so far.
  • dtcdtcdtcdtcdtcdtc Posts: 16,991
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    Tom Maynards' inquest today

    Quote:

    Maynard had earlier been stopped by police nearby after his black Mercedes was seen driving erratically, but he fled the vehicle, leaving his keys in the ignition.

    A post-mortem examination showed he was nearly four times the legal limit to drive and had also taken cocaine and ecstasy in the form of MDMA after a night out with his two flatmates in Wandsworth, south London.

    Tests on hair samples indicted Maynard may have been a regular drug user up to three and half months before his death, the inquest heard.

    Tom's family issued the following statement:

    The Maynard family issued a statement via the Professional Cricketers' Association which read as follows:

    "The results of the inquest do not define our son.

    "The fact that so very many people thought the world of him is what defines him as a person.

    "The only people who would judge Tom on the findings of the inquest are people who didn't know him.

    "He made choices that night that tragically cost him his life but his devastated family and friends will love and miss him unconditionally, always.

    "He was a very special person and his death leaves a huge hole in all our lives."


    Full Article :http://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/article/2/8525249/tom-maynard-inquest-details

    A sad loss
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    dtcdtcdtc wrote: »
    Tom Maynards' inquest today

    Quote:

    Maynard had earlier been stopped by police nearby after his black Mercedes was seen driving erratically, but he fled the vehicle, leaving his keys in the ignition.

    A post-mortem examination showed he was nearly four times the legal limit to drive and had also taken cocaine and ecstasy in the form of MDMA after a night out with his two flatmates in Wandsworth, south London.

    Tests on hair samples indicted Maynard may have been a regular drug user up to three and half months before his death, the inquest heard.

    Tom's family issued the following statement:

    The Maynard family issued a statement via the Professional Cricketers' Association which read as follows:

    "The results of the inquest do not define our son.

    "The fact that so very many people thought the world of him is what defines him as a person.

    "The only people who would judge Tom on the findings of the inquest are people who didn't know him.

    "He made choices that night that tragically cost him his life but his devastated family and friends will love and miss him unconditionally, always.

    "He was a very special person and his death leaves a huge hole in all our lives."


    Full Article :http://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/article/2/8525249/tom-maynard-inquest-details

    A sad loss

    Agreed and I feel for the parents and relatives today.

    But how many other young cricketers are on recreational drugs?

    As I said before, I've no doubt that Tom was neither the first, nor will he be the last to like a few drinks. He was a good looking 24 year-old with a tremendous career going already and future heights to be achieved.

    Or was his drinking and drug taking a reaction to the pressures of this situation?

    He was a rising star but was he having difficulty dealing with the fact?

    Or was he just a vibrant young man of 24 living life to the very full?

    In these days of sports science driven fitness obsessed days isn't it hugely ironic, let alone tragic, that one of our top young cricketers has end up dead with masses of drink and drugs inside of him?

    I hope there are some people at the clubs and the ECB who not only take note of this but take steps top do the right things as far as monitoring and preventing future similar scenarios.

    Even to establish that this situation was a one off and excessive drinking and drug taking are not endemic amongst young professionals would be a start.

    Hopefully, this is what any further investigation would find.

    Only Tom will have know why he ran. There but for the grace of god etc etc.

    My thoughts are with his parents, his family, his girlfriend, his team mates at Surrey who it seems have been devastated by what happened and all those at Glamorgan cricket who helped Tom on his way up.

    Again, I say RIP Tom Maynard.
  • malcy30malcy30 Posts: 7,153
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    The problem with Surrey is they had a culture of young players drinking and the situation was not helped by having a young captain who did not want to or could not lay down the discipline with the team. In cricket you do need a captain who sets the right example. That was why Surrey went for Solanki as a senior pro and Smith / Ponting as captain this year. They are a role model players should respect and listen to.

    Is their random drug testing in cricket at county level. Seems strange Maynard could have been a regular cocaine user for so long and was not caught, based upon his hair samples. Dettori was caught in horse racing but that was in France.
  • dtcdtcdtcdtcdtcdtc Posts: 16,991
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    malcy30 wrote: »

    Is their random drug testing in cricket at county level. Seems strange Maynard could have been a regular cocaine user for so long and was not caught, based upon his hair samples. Dettori was caught in horse racing but that was in France.

    Jade Dernbach , giving evidence, said it was sporadic and said one season he was tested 8/9 times and another season only twice
  • FroodFrood Posts: 13,180
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    tennisman wrote: »
    Also, while the central contracts have definetly improved England as a force in the international game, what does it say if a one major County like Surrey can't even find a local player to be their Captain? Percy Fender, and Alec Bedser must be turning in their graves.

    Why pick on Surrey, who probably have as good a record of 'Home' captains - and developing players through their Club cricket and Colts system in recent years as any 'big' Club?

    They had a 'home grown' Captain last season until the Maynard incident - and Maynard may well have been vice caprtain before long. Because of this, and the opportunity, they have gone for Smith who should be a sound and steady hand - and there were no other 'home grown' players well placed for the job at the moment.
    malcy30 wrote: »
    The problem with Surrey is they had a culture of young players drinking and the situation was not helped by having a young captain who did not want to or could not lay down the discipline with the team. In cricket you do need a captain who sets the right example. That was why Surrey went for Solanki as a senior pro and Smith / Ponting as captain this year. They are a role model players should respect and listen to.

    Is their random drug testing in cricket at county level. Seems strange Maynard could have been a regular cocaine user for so long and was not caught, based upon his hair samples. Dettori was caught in horse racing but that was in France.

    Michael Vaughan said there was a drinking culture at Yorkshire when he was playing - and I would be very surprised if it wasn't true at other Counties, then and now.

    Random and out of season testing should be brought in quickly. PEDs probably would be on little or no use in cricket (it being a very technical game) but 'recreational' stuff is likely to be a bigger problem given the 'style' of the game and season.
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    Frood wrote: »
    Why pick on Surrey, who probably have as good a record of 'Home' captains - and developing players through their Club cricket and Colts system in recent years as any 'big' Club?

    They had a 'home grown' Captain last season until the Maynard incident - and Maynard may well have been vice caprtain before long. Because of this, and the opportunity, they have gone for Smith who should be a sound and steady hand - and there were no other 'home grown' players well placed for the job at the moment.



    Michael Vaughan said there was a drinking culture at Yorkshire when he was playing - and I would be very surprised if it wasn't true at other Counties, then and now.

    Random and out of season testing should be brought in quickly. PEDs probably would be on little or no use in cricket (it being a very technical game) but 'recreational' stuff is likely to be a bigger problem given the 'style' of the game and season.

    Interesting points, Frood.

    It was also very interesting just now to listen to Angus Procter of the PCA talking on Talksport about the whole issue of drug testing and how out of competition testing for recreational as opposed to PED's is not as straight forward as at first, it may seem.

    Last night, Surrey announced a new initiative with their players to deal with the drugs issue.

    It's very easy to respond, as indeed I have said above and on my website, that the authorities should be involved, but when you get into it, exactly what form should that involvement take?

    Are Doctors, MP's, Council workers, etc et tested for recreational drugs? If not, why should cricketers be tested?

    Although Procter talked in terms of rehabilitation, an approach with which I concur, the legal / ethical issue of the fact that recreational drugs are still illegal complicates things.
    If a club find out that one of its' players are on such drugs, shouldn't they report them to the police?

    And if not, why not?

    Drinking is not illegal but driving drunk is. Last June we heard that Surrey had disciplined Maynard for drinking related behaviour. I suppose if the demon drink leads to a player breaking club / company policy, they have a right to discipline the player, even though controlling the extent that players drink is not actually within their re-mit.
  • dtcdtcdtcdtcdtcdtc Posts: 16,991
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    tennisman wrote: »

    Last night, Surrey announced a new initiative with their players to deal with the drugs issue.

    It's very easy to respond, as indeed I have said above and on my website, that the authorities should be involved, but when you get into it, exactly what form should that involvement take?

    Are Doctors, MP's, Council workers, etc et tested for recreational drugs? If not, why should cricketers be tested?

    Although Procter talked in terms of rehabilitation, an approach with which I concur, the legal / ethical issue of the fact that recreational drugs are still illegal complicates things.
    If a club find out that one of its' players are on such drugs, shouldn't they report them to the police?

    And if not, why not?

    .

    Did I hear that Surrey CCC are going to conduct tests on hair samples of their staff as this seems to be the most accurate way of seeing what is in someone's system.
    If they did discover that there were traces of illegal drugs in someones' sample , what the next step would be is open to question. If it were their star player, would they keep it under wraps ? What if it were a bar-steward/kitchen assistant. I would imagine under their employment contracts that it would fall under gross misconduct and result in instant dismissal.
    I would imagine though that employment law dictates that you treat all employees equally.
    This really needs thinking through as it is as clear as mud
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    dtcdtcdtc wrote: »
    Did I hear that Surrey CCC are going to conduct tests on hair samples of their staff as this seems to be the most accurate way of seeing what is in someone's system.
    If they did discover that there were traces of illegal drugs in someones' sample , what the next step would be is open to question. If it were their star player, would they keep it under wraps ? What if it were a bar-steward/kitchen assistant. I would imagine under their employment contracts that it would fall under gross misconduct and result in instant dismissal.
    I would imagine though that employment law dictates that you treat all employees equally.
    This really needs thinking through as it is as clear as mud

    I think Angus Procter was alluding to this.
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    What on earth are the Counties playing practice matches in the UK for now?

    It's still over 2 weeks before the season starts (at a ridiculously early date, as is the way now).

    What value will there be playing on soft pitches on the edge of the square?

    If there are benefits, then go ahead but back to the issue of how the sport is marketed, I wish they'd do these matches behind closed doors and not twitter about them as if they have some significance, as they don't.

    In fact, they are confusing.
  • GrecomaniaGrecomania Posts: 19,590
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    tennisman wrote: »
    What on earth are the Counties playing practice matches in the UK for now?

    It's still over 2 weeks before the season starts (at a ridiculously early date, as is the way now).

    What value will there be playing on soft pitches on the edge of the square?

    If there are benefits, then go ahead but back to the issue of how the sport is marketed, I wish they'd do these matches behind closed doors and not twitter about them as if they have some significance, as they don't.

    In fact, they are confusing.

    Hey, I need to know who's fit for my Fantasy Teams.

    I see Ian Blackwell has retired, solid performer, and helped Durham and Warwicks to titles.

    Who knows what might have been if he'd kept himself a bit fitter.
  • FroodFrood Posts: 13,180
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    I see Ian Blackwell has retired, solid performer, and helped Durham and Warwicks to titles.

    Who knows what might have been if he'd kept himself a bit fitter.

    Maybe a few more ODIs - maybe not.

    Useful limited overs player - not good enough in the longer form to be a worthwhile Test player.
  • GrecomaniaGrecomania Posts: 19,590
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    Frood wrote: »
    Maybe a few more ODIs - maybe not.

    Useful limited overs player - not good enough in the longer form to be a worthwhile Test player.

    Think he could have been very good in O-ne-dayers with more discipline, was pretty economical when he played, and could hit a ball.

    Anyway, I notice there's a Rhodes playing for Yorkshire, a Hammond at Gloucestershire, and obviously a Compton playing for England.

    I always like legendary names. Maybe they can get a Hobbs in for Surrey:)
  • FroodFrood Posts: 13,180
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    Think he could have been very good in O-ne-dayers with more discipline, was pretty economical when he played, and could hit a ball.

    Anyway, I notice there's a Rhodes playing for Yorkshire, a Hammond at Gloucestershire, and obviously a Compton playing for England.

    I always like legendary names. Maybe they can get a Hobbs in for Surrey:)

    Around the time that Thorpe was approaching the Surrey ranks there was. They came through the junior ranks in the County at the same time and the Hobbs was possibly nore talented but lost the desire.

    A 2nd Master would be good.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,517
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    Some of the counties are in the West Indies preparing for the new season, though I'm not sure playing over there is good preparation for cold and wet April days, but at least they will get some practice. I went to the first day of the season last year and it was quite unbearable, you really need a warm day to watch cricket.

    I read a book about Jack Hobbs recently, some very interesting stuff about his England and Surrey colleagues. Jack was reluctant to give Percy Chapman a lift to Lord's as he had a habit of being sick in the car due to heavy drinking, and Frank Foster became a bit wierd to the extent that a murdered woman was found in his bed, though he wasn't charged with anything .
  • dtcdtcdtcdtcdtcdtc Posts: 16,991
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    The long range forecast I just saw mentioned the possibility of snow next weekend.
    Mind you , I'm sure it snowed at Buxton in 1976 when Lancs played there and that summer turned out quite good.....
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 9,517
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    There is to be commentary of all county cricket games online via the BBC. Very good news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21880927


    And the England players are to play at least two 4 day county games before the NZ series
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,478
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    david1955 wrote: »
    There is to be commentary of all county cricket games online via the BBC. Very good news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21880927


    And the England players are to play at least two 4 day county games before the NZ series

    This is excellent news.
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