Oscar Pistorius Bail Hearing Begins

1186187189191192279

Comments

  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    codeblue wrote: »
    Is there any proof the window was open before the event?

    If there was no intruder (seems to have been established) who opened the window?
  • KathySparkKathySpark Posts: 2,439
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    codeblue wrote: »
    Is there any proof the window was open before the event?

    I havent read anything that proves it. Reeva could have opened it when she went to the toilet or OP could have opened it afterwards to back up his story. I dont know if there is anyway to prove it unless her fingerprints are on it, but that could be from anytime
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Domestic disputes have resulted in many deaths over the years, and it is more plausable, because she was in the bathroom, and he shot her.

    There was no burglar, and some find his story, and actions far fetched to say the least.

    It only seems that much more plausible because we now know, with hindsight, that there was no burglar.

    The fact that he did not have the hindsight that we now do shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.
  • GinaHGinaH Posts: 853
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Originally Posted by Xela M

    "Ok... I didn't mean to cause outrage and I realise that a woman is dead, but... We all know her popularity increased by dating OP. No one has ever heard of her before she became his girlfriend and suddenly started getting reality tv contracts. It's just hard to imagine this was true love. They only knew each other for 4 months. What I meant was that it would have been so stupid of him to go into a jealous rage over her. He's the superstar, not her."

    I can imagine Reeva's family wish the same!!!!
  • Auntie ClimaxAuntie Climax Posts: 917
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    If there was no intruder (seems to have been established) who opened the window?
    I had the same question. There was a window in the toilet cubicle, so why would she open the bathroom one when she went to the toilet? I also think that if the window was open before they went to bed that he would have known about it. It's also odd if he was so paranoid about intruders.
  • LaVieEnRoseLaVieEnRose Posts: 12,836
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    If there was no intruder (seems to have been established) who opened the window?

    I don't believe the window was open, although I suspect Pistorius or one of his gang may have opened it after the event.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Xela M wrote: »
    Oi I'm not alone. My mum and dad, as well as colleagues had the same reaction :o

    Still doesn't make it right, no matter the number of people that agree with you.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,376
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Xela M wrote: »
    I admit his story sounds unbelievable, but I want to believe it so badly! It's hard to imagine someone so heroic and distinguished throw away his life because of some fame hungry model he barely knew. :( He could have so easily replaced her with another.

    Maybe he was off his head with some kind of drug or something, judging by one of his recent tweets where he admitted he went into ' crazy mode' when he thought his washing machine was an intruder. He also had a raging temper according to his ex room mates .
  • Xela MXela M Posts: 4,710
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    On a completely separate note, is there no air conditioning in his luxury house? Why did he need the fan?
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    KathySpark wrote: »
    I havent read anything that proves it. Reeva could have opened it when she went to the toilet or OP could have opened it afterwards to back up his story. I dont know if there is anyway to prove it unless her fingerprints are on it, but that could be from anytime

    She went to the toilet in the middle of the night and opened the window? I'm not saying she could not have but why would she?
  • JakobjoeJakobjoe Posts: 8,235
    Forum Member
    None of the story adds up.I think Reevas family are really dignified.
  • KathySparkKathySpark Posts: 2,439
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    She went to the toilet in the middle of the night and opened the window? I'm not saying she could not have but why would she?


    Like I said we dont know if she did, but somebody did, either she did on the way to the toilet or he did after the event. I also think it will be one of the things that it will be hard for either side to prove
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Nihonga wrote: »
    Bib: But according to his affidavit, he said:

    During the early morning hours of 14 Feb. 2013 I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised someone was in the bathroom.

    - I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There were no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetics legs on, I have mobility on my stumps.

    – I believed someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed.

    – On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.


    In other words, according to his words, he already established for himself what to expect BEFORE he got to the bathroom/toilet - i.e. that an intruder (or someone other the people ke knew should be in the house) was in his house: " ... I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised someone was in the bathroom ... I believed someone had entered my house ... On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."

    He had already made the call for an intruder being in the house long before he made the call to find that it was/was not Reeva. So it's not really accurate to say that it's plausible "that when he went into the bathroom he didn't know what to expect". From his affivadit, once he heard a noise coming form the bathroom, he had already established in his mind that there was an intruder in the house long before he got to the bathroom. And to be fair, it's a reasonable assumption to make at that very moment on time. However, following on from those reasonable assumptions, his subsequent actions regarding Reeva makes his rest of story problematic.



    Bib: In his affivdavit, OP made no mention of windows being in the toilet, only in the bathroom and that this window was open. And there is no record as far I know that says otherwise. So yes, I agree with your bib, but only to an extent: We are going by what OP says was going on in his mind and what he was thinking at the time. And indeed what he is saying is plausible, given the crime-ridden state South Africa is in.

    But from his own affidavit, OP already decided before he got to the bathroom there was a supposed intruder in his house. And he also assumed that it wasn't Reeva by failing to make an atttempt to locate where she was (despite his claims for "wanting to protect her" and "being deeply in love with her"). The prosecution would/could therefore argue that, as it was, this was an assumption that OP was making (regardless of what he was thinking/thought in the heat of the moment, regardless of the high crime rate in SA, and their plausibilty), and an assumption that incidentally turned out to be very, very wrong. Regardless of what OP thought and felt at the time, his assumptions turned out not to be fact in the end.

    To mitigate this, the defence's case would be a lot stronger if OP had made some/any attempt (however miminal) to establish where Reeva was and that she was safe/OK. If OP had shown some attempt to secure Reeva's safety first and foremost (and as best he could under the circumstances), then the defence would be in a better place to show (based on OP's words) that there is reasonable doubt for premediated murder. But according to his affidavit, OP didn't do this for Reeva or even attempt to show that he did. And that's where the defence has a serious problem.

    I think the following sequence of events is plausible:

    1. He heard a noise from the direction of the bathroom, making him think there may be an intruder.

    2. He grabs the gun, and goes to investigate.

    3. He gets to the bathroom, sees the open window, hears the noise from the toilet, and in a split second becomes certain in his mind there is an intruder.

    I don't think his not mentioning windows in the toilet is relevant. Its enough to know that he would know that, as that means he knows if it was an intruder would not be able to escape from the toilet without coming through the bathroom / bedroom.
  • NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    But why was that window open. Did anyone explain it? Not barred and open are too different things.

    According to OP's words, there were no burglar bars across the windows, and the window was open. There's been no explanation why they were open.

    And there's another point: you mentioned the alarm system way back. If OP was so scared of intruders, why weren't there any burglar bars across the windows including the balcony windows? My dad had some up up in our house in Africa. Even the compound gate was electrified at night when we went to bed. Lots of middle-class homes have them as a preventative measure. In fact, the picture of the gated community don't have them, suggesting that the people may have felt fairly safe not to have them. Either that, or they didn't want to "signal" to outsiders that the gated community often had intruders. And the latter just doesn't make sense to me.

    Still, what my family did and what OP does isn't the point. It's perfectly OK for OP not to have them. That's not what bothers me. It just that it flies in the face of his claims of being afraid of intruders breaking in, is all.
    Pootmatoot wrote: »
    Don't worry, I think it's only one potty individual. At least everyone now agrees on something!

    Bib: Haha!:D Yes, at least!
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    She went to the toilet in the middle of the night and opened the window? I'm not saying she could not have but why would she?
    To escape someone who just hit her with a cricket bat or a threatened her with a gun?
  • LH1LH1 Posts: 2,394
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    bollywood wrote: »
    She went to the toilet in the middle of the night and opened the window? I'm not saying she could not have but why would she?

    She wouldn't have as she would have just woken up and I doubt she would be opening windows when half asleep and also surely she would know that he is paranoid about security.
  • ElanorElanor Posts: 13,326
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Xela M wrote: »
    I'm not sure how true this story is, but I read somewhere that OP has threatened to break someone's legs because his 18-year-old girlfriend cheated on him during the Olympics and one of the comments on a forum was: "such a superstar chasing after 18-year-old skirt". Those were kind of my feelings when I read it.

    Wait.. what? So your feelings on reading that are along the lines of 'why is he interested in an 18 year old?' rather than 'why is he threatening violence?' Have I read that right?
  • KathySparkKathySpark Posts: 2,439
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    LH1 wrote: »
    She wouldn't have as she would have just woken up and I doubt she would be opening windows when half asleep and also surely she would know that he is paranoid about security.

    But you dont know for sure, anymore than I know she did open it. As I said its one bit of the puzzle that will be hard to prove either way
  • jzeejzee Posts: 25,498
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    KathySpark wrote: »
    But you dont know for sure, anymore than I know she did open it. As I said its one bit of the puzzle that will be hard to prove either way
    Well I hope they checked for her fingerprints on all the surfaces, I do hope:(:rolleyes:.
  • franciefrancie Posts: 31,089
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Elanor wrote: »
    Wait.. what? So your feelings on reading that are along the lines of 'why is he interested in an 18 year old?' rather than 'why is he threatening violence?' Have I read that right?

    I wouldn't even go there :(
  • bollywoodbollywood Posts: 67,769
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I had the same question. There was a window in the toilet cubicle, so why would she open the bathroom one when she went to the toilet? I also think that if the window was open before they went to bed that he would have known about it. It's also odd if he was so paranoid about intruders.

    Yes. I think the temperature was running in the low 60's F during the night. That is cool if not chilly so she wouldn't need to open the window in the bathroom.
    I don't believe the window was open, although I suspect Pistorius or one of his gang may have opened it after the event.

    Hmm. He needs an explanation for the open window in the bathroom.
  • PinkPetuniaPinkPetunia Posts: 5,479
    Forum Member
    Xela M wrote: »
    Oi I'm not alone. My mum and dad, as well as colleagues had the same reaction :o

    Makes you all wrong then .Just becuase many people think like you doesnt make you right .It just make more people wrong .
    You need to stop digging now and show respect for a girl who died violently
  • NihongaNihonga Posts: 10,618
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    calico_pie wrote: »
    I think the following sequence of events is plausible:

    1. He heard a noise from the direction of the bathroom, making him think there may be an intruder.

    2. He grabs the gun, and goes to investigate.

    3. He gets to the bathroom, sees the open window, hears the noise from the toilet, and in a split second becomes certain in his mind there is an intruder.

    I don't think his not mentioning windows in the toilet is relevant. Its enough to know that he would know that, as that means he knows if it was an intruder would not be able to escape from the toilet without coming through the bathroom / bedroom.

    Bib: Yep, that scenerio is absolutely plausible.

    You're right, his not mentioning the windows in the toilet (if there are any) isn't important. The fact that the only access out from the toilet was through the door is reason to explain why he fired four bullets into the cubicle, believing there was an intruder in there.

    One of OP's problems is why he didn't make any attempt to ensure where Reeva was first and foremost, given his feelings for her. Simply assumming she was in the bed, given all his fears about intruders etc, wouldn't wash with some, maybe even, a lot of people.
  • GorbagGorbag Posts: 293
    Forum Member
    Xela M wrote: »
    I admit his story sounds unbelievable, but I want to believe it so badly! It's hard to imagine someone so heroic and distinguished throw away his life because of some fame hungry model he barely knew. :( He could have so easily replaced her with another.

    This thread has been very civilized and polite and fair. That sort of trashy, hateful comment is not welcome, in my opinion.
  • saralundsaralund Posts: 3,377
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    LH1 wrote: »
    She wouldn't have as she would have just woken up and I doubt she would be opening windows when half asleep and also surely she would know that he is paranoid about security.

    We don't know that she'd just woken up. We only have OP's word for it that they were both asleep.
This discussion has been closed.