Now that New Park, bookfan2, Biffpup, and Shop Girl pretty much mapped out S6E1 for us, it's onward to S6E2!
New Park, I don't think BP filmed that church scene in 2011 and never used for S5 for nothing. My thinking is that they put it aside in the event of S6.
Not everyone has their children in their 20s/early 30s
It is not unusual to see more mature parents around here
I see no problem accepting both MC/CC at face value - neither needs any cosmetic work, either in real life or for their roles in DM - they are not Action Man or Barbie Dolls - they are real people and real people have character lines...
Can you imagine MC's reaction to this suggestion ?
MC has made some negative comments about cosmetic surgery in the past. It's well known that he turned down Jeremy Brett's offer to pay to have his ears 'pinned' back early in his acting career.
Also, MC appeared with his MBB co-star Leslie Ash on a chat show who had terrible results from her surgery.
Now that New Park, bookfan2, Biffpup, and Shop Girl pretty much mapped out S6E1 for us, it's onward to S6E2!
New Park, I don't think BP filmed that church scene in 2011 and never used for S5 for nothing. My thinking is that they put it aside in the event of S6.
I didn't realize that they had an additional scene filmed at the church. Is that the church of Aunt Joan's funeral? Did someone see what was filmed and report?
I don't mean to ask the group to repeat info so I'll be happy to go read what was said if someone will post a link.
Now that New Park, bookfan2, Biffpup, and Shop Girl pretty much mapped out S6E1 for us, it's onward to S6E2!
New Park, I don't think BP filmed that church scene in 2011 and never used for S5 for nothing. My thinking is that they put it aside in the event of S6.
I'm intrigued by this unused church scene a couple of you have mentioned. What do we know about it? Was it at the church where AJ's funeral was held? How do we know it was something other than what was used? Did the info come from someone who was in the area during filming?
I finally watched S1 E2 again. You'd have thought a long holiday weekend would have given me extra time, but it was a busy one for me.
I think both New Park and PoorRichard commented on DM's diction in these early episodes. I agree. His delivery became much more clipped, tighter, in the subsequent seasons. In S1, his conversational style was more relaxed. And, of course, he said a lot more. It occurred to me that his being more verbal in the early episodes was necessary. We knew nothing about him early on and had to learn somehow. In later seasons, we know his background, we know why he's in PW, we know, in fact, a great deal about him. His being so verbal is no longer necessary, enabling MC to make him grumpier and more monosyllabic. But he was a real grouch in a lot of this episode. He was angry and showed it.
Speaking of his being more verbal, I find it hilarious that Martin spoke to the dog in full English sentences, as if it could fully understand him. Yes, he hated this mop of a dog, but at the same time, when the dog miraculously appeared in the surgery, Martin said, "How did you...?" When he took it to AJ's farm, he said, "This is your new home, which is a farm, which dogs are supposed to like." I find the contradiction, he hated the dog, but he spoke to it like a person, funny. That scene in his car as he drove home and the dog popped up in the backseat is one of my favorites. It's also one of the funniest of the outtakes on YouTube, when they were trying to get the dog to react. Another favorite scene is Martin tossing the stick over the cliff and shouting, "Fetch" at the dog. Believe me, I'm a dog lover (ask my Scottish and wire fox terriers), but that scene gets me everytime. It really is a laugh out loud moment. I noticed that when the village gave DM the cold shoulder after his sacking of Elaine, and he took the last cancellation phone call, the dog was there in the surgery. And Doc did not kick it out! He made a face at it, but let it stay. I think even he realized the dog was his only friend in the village.
What can I say about Elaine? I feel as if I should finish each sentence in this paragraph with "innit". Elaine is irritating, innit. But, you know, it seems she carved out a change that stayed with the surgery long after she left. At the wedding, after Doc agreed to take her back and she presented her own list of demands, she changed her arrival time from 8:30 to 9:00. In S4, when Pauline went on her little strike, she told the Doc her hours were 9 to 6. Chalk one up for Elaine. Innit.
Poorrichard, you're right, chicken fillets woman is the same actress who played Dr. Dibbs.
It's always so nice to watch an episode with Roger Fenn. In this episode, he'was such a perfect foil for DM. He was as cranky as the Doc. Listen to them after their little wreck outside the petrol station. They screamed at each other equally. It's such an obvious sign to viewers that these two are going to somehow become friends. Of course, I thought the same thing about Vicar Porter in S3, but that didn't happen. I noticed again that Roger is one of the first in PW to spot the spark between DM and LG. "Why does that bother you so much?" he asked Louisa when she griped about DM not coming to the hospital. Roger sees it. It's therefore doubly appropriate that his character was brought back for the non-wedding in S3.
I'm also curious about the song Roger was playing and singing when Doc came to his house. I like it. Did Colin Townes write it or is it someone else's song? It wasn't credited at the end of the show. I like the song the band played at the wedding too. I think this has been discussed here before. If I heard the lyrics correctly, it's "To the white house, to the white house, walking along the cliff." I can't find it online anywhere, except to find other fans at other sites asking the same question. Whose song is this? Did Colin write it just for this episode? Does anyone here know?
PoorRichard, I looked for the Buddha at the Richards house and, yep, there it is, a big one on the mantle. Wow!
What else? The panic attack and vomiting at the hospital. I miss the vomiting, and that's something none of us says often in day to day life. MC is so good at looking sick. I guess after he threw away that tan overcoat, he never got another, because that's the last time we saw him in an overcoat.
Yes, Louisa is having a bad hair day. Maybe after they all saw that on film, someone said, uh, nope, that doesn't work.
And, speaking of Louisa, I know we've all talked about the repeated onions in assorted episodes, including the one of the dash of her car in this ep, It looks like there are a couple of apples there too. Question: who drives around with fruit and vegetables on the dashboard of their car? It's odd, so it must mean something.
One last thing. At the hospital, losing his job was obviously still fresh in Roger's mind. He spoke about being so close to securing his pension, then he got the sack, and then here was his replacement visiting him when he's been diagnosed with cancer. So here's my question. Does this mean at this point LG hasn't been working at the school very long? Where was she previously? Was she in PW doing something else? Was she teaching in another nearby village? Was she in London? Just curious. It's something that hadn't previously cropped up in my mind.
I didn't realize that they had an additional scene filmed at the church. Is that the church of Aunt Joan's funeral? Did someone see what was filmed and report?
I don't mean to ask the group to repeat info so I'll be happy to go read what was said if someone will post a link.
Many thanks -- very interesting !!
I knew I was being irresponsible to repeat this rumour -- someone thought they did or might have filmed an extra scene, because what were they doing at this particular church, etc., and then that possibility it was debunked pretty conclusively, I don't remember on what grounds. My only point was, if they wanted to pick it up a couple of years further on, they could have thrown us a bone in the form of a flashback to the wedding etc, filmed earlier and put aside for that contingency. But I really don't think they were thinking that far ahead.
My thoughts are somewhat amorphous on this, but I am wondering if the description of DM as getting more "grumpy" by S2 or S3, is really totally appropriate.
I mean -- DM is clearly more colloquial, and somewhat more sociable in Episodes 1 and Episode 2 than he was in later seasons. But at the same time, I was struck in E2 that he was plenty "grumpy" already. He threw the villagers out of the waiting room pretty unceremoniously. He peremptorily fired Elaine (although the consequences forced him to reconsider). He got into the aforesaid shouting match with Roger Fenn, and was by no means civil to the woman behind the counter at the gas station.
At what point to we actually think he became more grumpy? I think the change was most marked by S4, but surely that was about more than just "grumpiness" per se, for the sake of grumpiness?
Anyway, I think I'm going to be keeping an eye on this dimension as we go along.
Thks Connie, will try not to read any spoilers. What part of B.C are you visiting..
We're staying in Vancouver. Victoria is beautiful. We love it here and it also gives us a chance to spend time in Seattle on the way back to Portland. It's not a bad drive for us - about 5 1/2 hours.
My thoughts are somewhat amorphous on this, but I am wondering if the description of DM as getting more "grumpy" by S2 or S3, is really totally appropriate.
I mean -- DM is clearly more colloquial, and somewhat more sociable in Episodes 1 and Episode 2 than he was in later seasons. But at the same time, I was struck in E2 that he was plenty "grumpy" already. He threw the villagers out of the waiting room pretty unceremoniously. He peremptorily fired Elaine (although the consequences forced him to reconsider). He got into the aforesaid shouting match with Roger Fenn, and was by no means civil to the woman behind the counter at the gas station.
At what point to we actually think he became more grumpy? I think the change was most marked by S4, but surely that was about more than just "grumpiness" per se, for the sake of grumpiness?
Anyway, I think I'm going to be keeping an eye on this dimension as we go along.
I think he was grumpy from the beginning, but what struck me was the care which was taken to get us, the viewers, onside with his grumpiness. In S1 he says out loud the things a lot of us would like to say (as to the woman at the hospital reception), but are too cowed by the rules of social politeness to ever utter. His rudeness is usually with provokation in S1 and we tend to be on the Doc's side, whereas there are times later on (like his curt "no" to Mark when he asks him to be best man (S2) or his slamming of the door in Al's face and unbending refusal to change Pauline's reference (S4) when most of our sympathy is with the person he has just abused or dismissed and our mouth hangs open in indignation that he just did that. The reason I think those moments don't feel so good to us, is that when the Doc becomes our surrogate mouthpiece we feel we are laughing with him -- cheering him on, as it were. When we are shocked and surprised by the Doc's rudeness at those other times, it is the writers/producers having a laugh at us (ie. getting a rise out of us)....Does that makes sense?
I think he was grumpy from the beginning, but what struck me was the care which was taken to get us, the viewers, onside with his grumpiness. In S1 he says out loud the things a lot of us would like to say (as to the woman at the hospital reception), but are too cowed by the rules of social politeness to ever utter. His rudeness is usually with provokation in S1 and we tend to be on the Doc's side, whereas there are times later on (like his curt "no" to Mark when he asks him to be best man (S2) or his slamming of the door in Al's face and unbending refusal to change Pauline's reference (S4) when most of our sympathy is with the person he has just abused or dismissed and our mouth hangs open in indignation that he just did that. The reason I think those moments don't feel so good to us, is that when the Doc becomes our surrogate mouthpiece we feel we are laughing with him -- cheering him on, as it were. When we are shocked and surprised by the Doc's rudeness at those other times, it is the writers/producers having a laugh at us (ie. getting a rise out of us)....Does that makes sense?
It makes sense, but I'm not sure I completely agree. Seems to me that, even in later seasons, he had either some justification or at least a reason that we as viewers can understand. Patients not following directions. Bert's car blocking the road. Pauline going on strike. That kind of thing. As for Pauline and Al and the reference, I think he's one of those people to whom "competent" is the ultimate reference. Some moments that don't seem linked directly to what's happening immediately can be traced to his frustration (he's feeling very, very hurt in S4, I believe). I think in S5 he's also frustrated and confused and protective of his own emotions and doesn't quite understand what's going on (like me!). Still, he's sometimes quite kind. To Mrs. Dingley, Mrs. Selkirk, the girl who wants her breasts to grow, even Mr. Coley, to a degree, and others.
The portrayal of the character does change, though. He's a bit more terse, more straightlaced, obviously more repressed, more protective (of himself, of his own feelings). As I said earlier, I suspect that the early, looser Doc was necessary for us to get to know him and what makes him tick. Then look what happens to him. His evil parents show up and he discovers, as a grown man, just how little they care for him and how little they cared for him as a boy. I think we can also assume that the failed wedding at the end of S3 affected him deeply and changed him. After years and years and years of being alone, he finally let himself care again, and it ended unsuccessfully. Hurt again. Alone again. Baby on the way and he was shut out. This would have an effect on anyone. It's really brilliant acting, in my opinion, and excellent writing. New Park, this goes to your question about S4 too, but this is just my opinion.
We see the effects of these events in his stance, his diction, his clothing, his mannerisms.
It makes breakthroughs such as those we see at the end of S4 and 5 all the more dramatic and intense.
I think any changes in him are reflections of what he's gone through, in other words, and I think MC and PB and BB and the writers are so, so smart. If we see changes in him in S6, any reversal of the above, I expect them to be due to his emotional healing. Of course, recent talk about there possibly being a S7 has me quite nervous about S6. I'm ready to see some emotional repairs.
Speaking of his being more verbal, I find it hilarious that Martin spoke to the dog in full English sentences, as if it could fully understand him. Yes, he hated this mop of a dog, but at the same time, when the dog miraculously appeared in the surgery, Martin said, "How did you...?" When he took it to AJ's farm, he said, "This is your new home, which is a farm, which dogs are supposed to like."
It's always so nice to watch an episode with Roger Fenn. In this episode, he'was such a perfect foil for DM. He was as cranky as the Doc. Listen to them after their little wreck outside the petrol station. They screamed at each other equally. It's such an obvious sign to viewers that these two are going to somehow become friends.
I like the song the band played at the wedding too. I think this has been discussed here before. If I heard the lyrics correctly, it's "To the white house, to the white house, walking along the cliff."
And, speaking of Louisa, I know we've all talked about the repeated onions in assorted episodes, including the one of the dash of her car in this ep, It looks like there are a couple of apples there too. Question: who drives around with fruit and vegetables on the dashboard of their car? It's odd, so it must mean something.
One last thing. At the hospital, losing his job was obviously still fresh in Roger's mind. He spoke about being so close to securing his pension, then he got the sack, and then here was his replacement visiting him when he's been diagnosed with cancer. So here's my question. Does this mean at this point LG hasn't been working at the school very long? Where was she previously? Was she in PW doing something else? Was she teaching in another nearby village? Was she in London? Just curious. It's something that hadn't previously cropped up in my mind.
Thanks Biffpup, I always enjoy your observations and your sense of humour. I love the way the writers use the words "you" and "there" and "here" in this series. (Or perhaps its just the way that MC delivers them). "Not you, you" is something that is often said. The "you" seems to dignify the dog with personhood somehow. For the special use of "there" listen to the scene where the Doc finds Pauline and Al kissing on his kitchen table "I eat there", and for "here" listen to S1E4 when Martin nis remonstrating about the need for able bodied people to come to the surgery "tell him he can come in here." What was it bookfan said about Maggie Smith and the yellow pages? When an actor can make words like "you" "here" and "there" sound interesting, you know he's a great actor.
"Roger bloody chip on the shoulder Fenn." It takes one to know one.
I don't think it's "to the white house" but for the life of me I can't make out what it is. It sounds like "Two, one, girls" (though I've considered "two wine glass" and "two white gulls") and I agree -- "walking along the cliff." This song has gotten annoying to me after multiple viewings, whereas I always look forward to Roger's ballad.
Since plastic carrier bags have gone out in our local grocery stores, and since I'm not organised enough to do a big shop once a week and pack it all in crates in the car boot for the way home, it's not beyond the reach of possibility that I'd be making a soup and nip out to the store for one onion, transporting it back to my home, unbagged, on the dashboard of my car. In the UK plastic carrier bags were a thing discouraged even before that was the case in North America. What it means is that Louisa is a bit disorganised and untidy (you'd never see an onion on the dashboard of the Lexus). Alternatively if we need to find a symbolic meaning, how 'bout this? It's referencing Shrek "ogres have got layers." The Doc as the ogre of this piece has got layers also.:rolleyes:
Interesting question about what Louisa had done before Fenn got the P45 and she moved into his job. Maybe she was living in the village and commuting to a teaching job elsewhere (she's poached Tricia Soams from where? Truro?) Maybe it was a case of two jobs, hers and Fenn's getting collapsed into one (administrators love to do that -- "aesthetic rationalisation" or something) with Louisa being the survivor. At first I thought Fenn was an English teacher (his two references to the Doc's grammar: "oh I do love the medical profession, a grammar all its own" and "same choice of words too -- the voice -- it's not the voice"). But Louisa seems to teach a bit of everything (we see her doing a history lesson in S4 (the episode with Theo Wenn) and the story she reads to the kids at the Harbour seems to be a language arts class), and she seems to teach all classes on different days (her hang-over cure is the only way she can face 6th form on Monday mornings; at the Harbour we see her with younger kids). In S1E3 Louisa says to Fenn "you should have been teaching music all along." And we see Louisa's friend Philippa teaching "rural science" as if that's a specialist kind of subject. Perhaps they have roving resource teachers that service several schools for the special subjects, and the regular staff are expected to teach a bit of everything. That's how they did it in Orkney. However, if Fenn were, say, department head of English, with several teachers under him, Louisa could get promoted to his position and still have been a teacher in the Portwenn school previously. Good question.
New poll up on www.docmartinonline.net - In Season 1, Episode 1, what do you think Louisa thinks when she first notices Doc Martin staring at her on the plane?
It makes sense, but I'm not sure I completely agree. Seems to me that, even in later seasons, he had either some justification or at least a reason that we as viewers can understand. Patients not following directions. Bert's car blocking the road. Pauline going on strike. That kind of thing. As for Pauline and Al and the reference, I think he's one of those people to whom "competent" is the ultimate reference. Some moments that don't seem linked directly to what's happening immediately can be traced to his frustration (he's feeling very, very hurt in S4, I believe). I think in S5 he's also frustrated and confused and protective of his own emotions and doesn't quite understand what's going on (like me!). Still, he's sometimes quite kind. To Mrs. Dingley, Mrs. Selkirk, the girl who wants her breasts to grow, even Mr. Coley, to a degree, and others.
The portrayal of the character does change, though. He's a bit more terse, more straightlaced, obviously more repressed, more protective (of himself, of his own feelings). As I said earlier, I suspect that the early, looser Doc was necessary for us to get to know him and what makes him tick. Then look what happens to him. His evil parents show up and he discovers, as a grown man, just how little they care for him and how little they cared for him as a boy. I think we can also assume that the failed wedding at the end of S3 affected him deeply and changed him. After years and years and years of being alone, he finally let himself care again, and it ended unsuccessfully. Hurt again. Alone again. Baby on the way and he was shut out. This would have an effect on anyone. It's really brilliant acting, in my opinion, and excellent writing. New Park, this goes to your question about S4 too, but this is just my opinion.
We see the effects of these events in his stance, his diction, his clothing, his mannerisms.
It makes breakthroughs such as those we see at the end of S4 and 5 all the more dramatic and intense.
I think any changes in him are reflections of what he's gone through, in other words, and I think MC and PB and BB and the writers are so, so smart. If we see changes in him in S6, any reversal of the above, I expect them to be due to his emotional healing. Of course, recent talk about there possibly being a S7 has me quite nervous about S6. I'm ready to see some emotional repairs.
I think what's important here is your observation that most of his changes did not happen unilaterally. They are all set up by changing circumstances. He starts out S1 in some hope that being a GP in PortWenn will be at least somewhat gratifying, but he gets off on the wrong foot with the villagers, culminating in the blood phobia prank, etc. Then many of the things that happen to him later seem to progressively darken his mood. I also think that mostly what happens is that we see less of his redeeming traits (that hidden empathy and kindness that we suspect is there) over time and more of his negative traits. Also, that they tightened him up over time.
I think turning down Mark so abruptly had to do with his feeling that this woman would hurt Mark and he couldn't be a part of it, and not knowing how to explain this, he just gave him the short answer. I don't think that was "grumpy" per se.
I guess "grumpy" is a useful shorthand word for the darkening of his character, but I don't think it quite fits. But as yet, I'm at a loss to think of a more apt word.
I think that's all fine, and I agree with all of it. The only rub with the series is that we're not starting with actors who are in their 40's and 50's -- we're continuing on with a series in which the time is artificially shortened-- we're not sure by how much but total time not more than 4-5 years probably -- while the actors have aged 8 or 9 years. So the discrepancy from series to series is a bit jarring. That's all I really mean. There's a sense in which I would like to see them pick it up when their story's age has caught up with their off-screen age, if that makes sense. But, it's a minor quibble, which I would dispense with in a heartbeat, given a chance to see some early honeymoon scenes
I hear what you are saying, NewPark. I just add the aging to the long list of PW effects: the ever changing surgery, the ever changing babies, the cars that disappear, the Large's home disappearing, the ground floor bathroom window, etc. Let's face it; DM takes place in an alternate universe. There is much to adapt to watching it!
I guess "grumpy" is a useful shorthand word for the darkening of his character, but I don't think it quite fits. But as yet, I'm at a loss to think of a more apt word.
I quite agree, NewPark. I never thought that "grumpy" really fit - but we do use it in code since the BP producers repeatedly rolled it out themselves in interviews and in trailers. Question: has DM ever been referred to as "grumpy" by the villagers in the show? I don't recall that. So I think there are many words to describe the Doc's countenance and grumpy behavior at different times: clipped, curt, terse, withholding, withdrawn, unsure, unhappy, frustrated, tight, stiff, cranky, angry, nasty, loud, judgmental, moralizing, disdainful. Then there are the words MC specifically tagged DM with (I very much disagree as I find them mostly overstated): loathsome, vile, ghastly, horrible. These tend to frame the Doc as more of a two-dimensional caricature, but MC has enjoyed increasingly in his PR appearances portraying DM unsympathetically to the viewers.
No, no, no, no, no! Oh, excuse me, calming myself now. I'm referring to suggestions that he dye his hair. No, no, no, n...,
THis has been a fascinating, wide-ranging discussion, but since so many people have responded to the hair dying idea - I remember someone on this forum awhile back casually mentioning that MC colored his hair. I tend to think that may be true depending on the length of hair and the look he's going for. Perhaps our retinue of photo archivists can help out here. There is photo in that bad biography someone published of Martin with short dark brown hair. It seems perhaps as he has gotten more grey, he sometimes looks more blonde, especially when his hair is long. Can it all be the lighting? Perhaps his actual eye color isn't the only question, but his hair color as well!
THis has been a fascinating, wide-ranging discussion, but since so many people have responded to the hair dying idea - I remember someone on this forum awhile back casually mentioning that MC colored his hair. I tend to think that may be true depending on the length of hair and the look he's going for. Perhaps our retinue of photo archivists can help out here. There is photo in that bad biography someone published of Martin with short dark brown hair. It seems perhaps as he has gotten more grey, he sometimes looks more blonde, especially when his hair is long. Can it all be the lighting? Perhaps his actual eye color isn't the only question, but his hair color as well!
I think MC does sometimes dye his hair blonde, but MC and DM are two different people. Well, okay, not exactly, but you know what I mean. I think.
Here's my last two cents on the subject of DM hair color. Having just rewatched the William & Mary series where you see alot more skin, his arms are blond and the 10 hairs on his chest are blond. For DM he has to have his hair clipped very short, probably no more than one-half inch at its longest. It would be hard to color his hair throughout a series, filming time about 4 months, hair constantly growing, without someone running after him with a dye pot for touchups. The only way his hair looks darker are the indoor scenes where the lighting is controlled with probably peach or pink lights mixed in with blue/white (what do I know?). My problem is that I just am not ready for him to turn white as the episode with his father.
I quite agree, NewPark. I never thought that "grumpy" really fit - but we do use it in code since the BP producers repeatedly rolled it out themselves in interviews and in trailers. Question: has DM ever been referred to as "grumpy" by the villagers in the show? I don't recall that. So I think there are many words to describe the Doc's countenance and grumpy behavior at different times: clipped, curt, terse, withholding, withdrawn, unsure, unhappy, frustrated, tight, stiff, cranky, angry, nasty, loud, judgmental, moralizing, disdainful. Then there are the words MC specifically tagged DM with (I very much disagree as I find them mostly overstated): loathsome, vile, ghastly, horrible. These tend to frame the Doc as more of a two-dimensional caricature, but MC has enjoyed increasingly in his PR appearances portraying DM unsympathetically to the viewers.
I agree that grumpy probably isn't the right word. Grumpy suggests getting out of bed on the wrong side, a transient emotion/behavior (or a small dwarf who sings with Snow White).
I tend to agree with PoorRichard that the terse, abrupt conversations Doc Martin has with recalcitrant patients often are justified and as the audience, we cheer because he's giving voice to our own thoughts.
But it's when Martin is cruel, withering, dismissive of those who are vulnerable, like children or Al petitioning on behalf of Pauline (still my cause of indignation), that the audience becomes angry on behalf of the victim and disappointed/frustrated with the Doc. It may be that his behavior, which seemed to increase in Series 4 and 5, is related to external events that are making him unhappy and he, in turn, takes it out on others.
For whatever reason, MC and the writers seem to think that this "grumpier" Doc is more interesting. For me, I'm looking for a balance. Not a chatty-Cathy Doc Martin, but one who chooses his targets wisely.
I only have a few more small observations on S1E2, since all other comments have been so rich and interesting:
1. DM takes his tea with milk and no sugar but in S4 we see him pouring tea for breakfast, right before running to the school to tell LG he's moving away, and he doesn't use any milk.
2. DM eats out, wanting a pastie, but is rebuffed at the restaurant due to firing Elaine. Perhaps then he just decides to always make his own dinner at home.
3. Buddy the dog is quite the Lothario and likes 'em tiny with goofy names. Apparently Buddy has his way both with Carmen's lap dog, Sir Lancelot, and Carrie's dog.
4. Biffpup brought up the idea that LG has only had her job briefly at PW. In the hospital, we hear that LG and Roger have not spoken for a year, which is when we are to assume that LG took over his job at the PW Primary. Why did they want to fire Roger--did he not do a good job? Attitude? Where was LG before working at the PW school? We are made to think she has been in PW, her childhood village and the village she loves, for a long time, but apparently, that is not the case at all. What made her, perhaps decide to return home? Where was she before her return?
5. Roger shares in the hospital that he has a grown up daughter with whom he is estranged. One wondered if his daughter is alerted to that fact that she has a half sister, in S2, 25 years or so younger than her.
6. I think the theme of this episode is "chip on the shoulder". Elaine has one regarding her mother's early death and her dad remarrying. Roger obviously has one about his being fired before his pension kicked in. LG has one, in regards to DM not being the marvelous, terrific, tall, handsome, caring, fitting into PW doctor she I think really wanted him to be, being attracted to him. That he isn't Mr. Perfect deeply upsets her, I think.
However, I thought the build up of DM and LG missing themselves in the hospital hallways and the parking lot was overdone; the fall-out of her believing he didn't show up at the hospital had a very disappointing denouement in the meeting of her, DM and Roger at the wedding. But, we do immediately see LG thinking the worse of DM and we know that continues onward throughout the entire series.
Comments
New Park, I don't think BP filmed that church scene in 2011 and never used for S5 for nothing. My thinking is that they put it aside in the event of S6.
MC has made some negative comments about cosmetic surgery in the past. It's well known that he turned down Jeremy Brett's offer to pay to have his ears 'pinned' back early in his acting career.
Also, MC appeared with his MBB co-star Leslie Ash on a chat show who had terrible results from her surgery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlGJo5LcCZA
I didn't realize that they had an additional scene filmed at the church. Is that the church of Aunt Joan's funeral? Did someone see what was filmed and report?
I don't mean to ask the group to repeat info so I'll be happy to go read what was said if someone will post a link.
Many thanks -- very interesting !!
I'm intrigued by this unused church scene a couple of you have mentioned. What do we know about it? Was it at the church where AJ's funeral was held? How do we know it was something other than what was used? Did the info come from someone who was in the area during filming?
I think both New Park and PoorRichard commented on DM's diction in these early episodes. I agree. His delivery became much more clipped, tighter, in the subsequent seasons. In S1, his conversational style was more relaxed. And, of course, he said a lot more. It occurred to me that his being more verbal in the early episodes was necessary. We knew nothing about him early on and had to learn somehow. In later seasons, we know his background, we know why he's in PW, we know, in fact, a great deal about him. His being so verbal is no longer necessary, enabling MC to make him grumpier and more monosyllabic. But he was a real grouch in a lot of this episode. He was angry and showed it.
Speaking of his being more verbal, I find it hilarious that Martin spoke to the dog in full English sentences, as if it could fully understand him. Yes, he hated this mop of a dog, but at the same time, when the dog miraculously appeared in the surgery, Martin said, "How did you...?" When he took it to AJ's farm, he said, "This is your new home, which is a farm, which dogs are supposed to like." I find the contradiction, he hated the dog, but he spoke to it like a person, funny. That scene in his car as he drove home and the dog popped up in the backseat is one of my favorites. It's also one of the funniest of the outtakes on YouTube, when they were trying to get the dog to react. Another favorite scene is Martin tossing the stick over the cliff and shouting, "Fetch" at the dog. Believe me, I'm a dog lover (ask my Scottish and wire fox terriers), but that scene gets me everytime. It really is a laugh out loud moment. I noticed that when the village gave DM the cold shoulder after his sacking of Elaine, and he took the last cancellation phone call, the dog was there in the surgery. And Doc did not kick it out! He made a face at it, but let it stay. I think even he realized the dog was his only friend in the village.
What can I say about Elaine? I feel as if I should finish each sentence in this paragraph with "innit". Elaine is irritating, innit. But, you know, it seems she carved out a change that stayed with the surgery long after she left. At the wedding, after Doc agreed to take her back and she presented her own list of demands, she changed her arrival time from 8:30 to 9:00. In S4, when Pauline went on her little strike, she told the Doc her hours were 9 to 6. Chalk one up for Elaine. Innit.
Poorrichard, you're right, chicken fillets woman is the same actress who played Dr. Dibbs.
It's always so nice to watch an episode with Roger Fenn. In this episode, he'was such a perfect foil for DM. He was as cranky as the Doc. Listen to them after their little wreck outside the petrol station. They screamed at each other equally. It's such an obvious sign to viewers that these two are going to somehow become friends. Of course, I thought the same thing about Vicar Porter in S3, but that didn't happen. I noticed again that Roger is one of the first in PW to spot the spark between DM and LG. "Why does that bother you so much?" he asked Louisa when she griped about DM not coming to the hospital. Roger sees it. It's therefore doubly appropriate that his character was brought back for the non-wedding in S3.
I'm also curious about the song Roger was playing and singing when Doc came to his house. I like it. Did Colin Townes write it or is it someone else's song? It wasn't credited at the end of the show. I like the song the band played at the wedding too. I think this has been discussed here before. If I heard the lyrics correctly, it's "To the white house, to the white house, walking along the cliff." I can't find it online anywhere, except to find other fans at other sites asking the same question. Whose song is this? Did Colin write it just for this episode? Does anyone here know?
PoorRichard, I looked for the Buddha at the Richards house and, yep, there it is, a big one on the mantle. Wow!
What else? The panic attack and vomiting at the hospital. I miss the vomiting, and that's something none of us says often in day to day life. MC is so good at looking sick. I guess after he threw away that tan overcoat, he never got another, because that's the last time we saw him in an overcoat.
Yes, Louisa is having a bad hair day. Maybe after they all saw that on film, someone said, uh, nope, that doesn't work.
And, speaking of Louisa, I know we've all talked about the repeated onions in assorted episodes, including the one of the dash of her car in this ep, It looks like there are a couple of apples there too. Question: who drives around with fruit and vegetables on the dashboard of their car? It's odd, so it must mean something.
One last thing. At the hospital, losing his job was obviously still fresh in Roger's mind. He spoke about being so close to securing his pension, then he got the sack, and then here was his replacement visiting him when he's been diagnosed with cancer. So here's my question. Does this mean at this point LG hasn't been working at the school very long? Where was she previously? Was she in PW doing something else? Was she teaching in another nearby village? Was she in London? Just curious. It's something that hadn't previously cropped up in my mind.
I don't think so. I'm looking forward to it too, especially since a few people have said MC's role gets meatier in part 2.
I knew I was being irresponsible to repeat this rumour -- someone thought they did or might have filmed an extra scene, because what were they doing at this particular church, etc., and then that possibility it was debunked pretty conclusively, I don't remember on what grounds. My only point was, if they wanted to pick it up a couple of years further on, they could have thrown us a bone in the form of a flashback to the wedding etc, filmed earlier and put aside for that contingency. But I really don't think they were thinking that far ahead.
I'm in British Columbia right now. I'll upload part 2 when I'm back home in the US on Sunday.
Thks Connie, will try not to read any spoilers. What part of B.C are you visiting..
I mean -- DM is clearly more colloquial, and somewhat more sociable in Episodes 1 and Episode 2 than he was in later seasons. But at the same time, I was struck in E2 that he was plenty "grumpy" already. He threw the villagers out of the waiting room pretty unceremoniously. He peremptorily fired Elaine (although the consequences forced him to reconsider). He got into the aforesaid shouting match with Roger Fenn, and was by no means civil to the woman behind the counter at the gas station.
At what point to we actually think he became more grumpy? I think the change was most marked by S4, but surely that was about more than just "grumpiness" per se, for the sake of grumpiness?
Anyway, I think I'm going to be keeping an eye on this dimension as we go along.
We're staying in Vancouver. Victoria is beautiful. We love it here and it also gives us a chance to spend time in Seattle on the way back to Portland. It's not a bad drive for us - about 5 1/2 hours.
I think he was grumpy from the beginning, but what struck me was the care which was taken to get us, the viewers, onside with his grumpiness. In S1 he says out loud the things a lot of us would like to say (as to the woman at the hospital reception), but are too cowed by the rules of social politeness to ever utter. His rudeness is usually with provokation in S1 and we tend to be on the Doc's side, whereas there are times later on (like his curt "no" to Mark when he asks him to be best man (S2) or his slamming of the door in Al's face and unbending refusal to change Pauline's reference (S4) when most of our sympathy is with the person he has just abused or dismissed and our mouth hangs open in indignation that he just did that. The reason I think those moments don't feel so good to us, is that when the Doc becomes our surrogate mouthpiece we feel we are laughing with him -- cheering him on, as it were. When we are shocked and surprised by the Doc's rudeness at those other times, it is the writers/producers having a laugh at us (ie. getting a rise out of us)....Does that makes sense?
It makes sense, but I'm not sure I completely agree. Seems to me that, even in later seasons, he had either some justification or at least a reason that we as viewers can understand. Patients not following directions. Bert's car blocking the road. Pauline going on strike. That kind of thing. As for Pauline and Al and the reference, I think he's one of those people to whom "competent" is the ultimate reference. Some moments that don't seem linked directly to what's happening immediately can be traced to his frustration (he's feeling very, very hurt in S4, I believe). I think in S5 he's also frustrated and confused and protective of his own emotions and doesn't quite understand what's going on (like me!). Still, he's sometimes quite kind. To Mrs. Dingley, Mrs. Selkirk, the girl who wants her breasts to grow, even Mr. Coley, to a degree, and others.
The portrayal of the character does change, though. He's a bit more terse, more straightlaced, obviously more repressed, more protective (of himself, of his own feelings). As I said earlier, I suspect that the early, looser Doc was necessary for us to get to know him and what makes him tick. Then look what happens to him. His evil parents show up and he discovers, as a grown man, just how little they care for him and how little they cared for him as a boy. I think we can also assume that the failed wedding at the end of S3 affected him deeply and changed him. After years and years and years of being alone, he finally let himself care again, and it ended unsuccessfully. Hurt again. Alone again. Baby on the way and he was shut out. This would have an effect on anyone. It's really brilliant acting, in my opinion, and excellent writing. New Park, this goes to your question about S4 too, but this is just my opinion.
We see the effects of these events in his stance, his diction, his clothing, his mannerisms.
It makes breakthroughs such as those we see at the end of S4 and 5 all the more dramatic and intense.
I think any changes in him are reflections of what he's gone through, in other words, and I think MC and PB and BB and the writers are so, so smart. If we see changes in him in S6, any reversal of the above, I expect them to be due to his emotional healing. Of course, recent talk about there possibly being a S7 has me quite nervous about S6. I'm ready to see some emotional repairs.
Thanks Biffpup, I always enjoy your observations and your sense of humour. I love the way the writers use the words "you" and "there" and "here" in this series. (Or perhaps its just the way that MC delivers them). "Not you, you" is something that is often said. The "you" seems to dignify the dog with personhood somehow. For the special use of "there" listen to the scene where the Doc finds Pauline and Al kissing on his kitchen table "I eat there", and for "here" listen to S1E4 when Martin nis remonstrating about the need for able bodied people to come to the surgery "tell him he can come in here." What was it bookfan said about Maggie Smith and the yellow pages? When an actor can make words like "you" "here" and "there" sound interesting, you know he's a great actor.
"Roger bloody chip on the shoulder Fenn." It takes one to know one.
I don't think it's "to the white house" but for the life of me I can't make out what it is. It sounds like "Two, one, girls" (though I've considered "two wine glass" and "two white gulls") and I agree -- "walking along the cliff." This song has gotten annoying to me after multiple viewings, whereas I always look forward to Roger's ballad.
Since plastic carrier bags have gone out in our local grocery stores, and since I'm not organised enough to do a big shop once a week and pack it all in crates in the car boot for the way home, it's not beyond the reach of possibility that I'd be making a soup and nip out to the store for one onion, transporting it back to my home, unbagged, on the dashboard of my car. In the UK plastic carrier bags were a thing discouraged even before that was the case in North America. What it means is that Louisa is a bit disorganised and untidy (you'd never see an onion on the dashboard of the Lexus). Alternatively if we need to find a symbolic meaning, how 'bout this? It's referencing Shrek "ogres have got layers." The Doc as the ogre of this piece has got layers also.:rolleyes:
Interesting question about what Louisa had done before Fenn got the P45 and she moved into his job. Maybe she was living in the village and commuting to a teaching job elsewhere (she's poached Tricia Soams from where? Truro?) Maybe it was a case of two jobs, hers and Fenn's getting collapsed into one (administrators love to do that -- "aesthetic rationalisation" or something) with Louisa being the survivor. At first I thought Fenn was an English teacher (his two references to the Doc's grammar: "oh I do love the medical profession, a grammar all its own" and "same choice of words too -- the voice -- it's not the voice"). But Louisa seems to teach a bit of everything (we see her doing a history lesson in S4 (the episode with Theo Wenn) and the story she reads to the kids at the Harbour seems to be a language arts class), and she seems to teach all classes on different days (her hang-over cure is the only way she can face 6th form on Monday mornings; at the Harbour we see her with younger kids). In S1E3 Louisa says to Fenn "you should have been teaching music all along." And we see Louisa's friend Philippa teaching "rural science" as if that's a specialist kind of subject. Perhaps they have roving resource teachers that service several schools for the special subjects, and the regular staff are expected to teach a bit of everything. That's how they did it in Orkney. However, if Fenn were, say, department head of English, with several teachers under him, Louisa could get promoted to his position and still have been a teacher in the Portwenn school previously. Good question.
I think what's important here is your observation that most of his changes did not happen unilaterally. They are all set up by changing circumstances. He starts out S1 in some hope that being a GP in PortWenn will be at least somewhat gratifying, but he gets off on the wrong foot with the villagers, culminating in the blood phobia prank, etc. Then many of the things that happen to him later seem to progressively darken his mood. I also think that mostly what happens is that we see less of his redeeming traits (that hidden empathy and kindness that we suspect is there) over time and more of his negative traits. Also, that they tightened him up over time.
I think turning down Mark so abruptly had to do with his feeling that this woman would hurt Mark and he couldn't be a part of it, and not knowing how to explain this, he just gave him the short answer. I don't think that was "grumpy" per se.
I guess "grumpy" is a useful shorthand word for the darkening of his character, but I don't think it quite fits. But as yet, I'm at a loss to think of a more apt word.
I hear what you are saying, NewPark. I just add the aging to the long list of PW effects: the ever changing surgery, the ever changing babies, the cars that disappear, the Large's home disappearing, the ground floor bathroom window, etc. Let's face it; DM takes place in an alternate universe. There is much to adapt to watching it!
I quite agree, NewPark. I never thought that "grumpy" really fit - but we do use it in code since the BP producers repeatedly rolled it out themselves in interviews and in trailers. Question: has DM ever been referred to as "grumpy" by the villagers in the show? I don't recall that. So I think there are many words to describe the Doc's countenance and grumpy behavior at different times: clipped, curt, terse, withholding, withdrawn, unsure, unhappy, frustrated, tight, stiff, cranky, angry, nasty, loud, judgmental, moralizing, disdainful. Then there are the words MC specifically tagged DM with (I very much disagree as I find them mostly overstated): loathsome, vile, ghastly, horrible. These tend to frame the Doc as more of a two-dimensional caricature, but MC has enjoyed increasingly in his PR appearances portraying DM unsympathetically to the viewers.
THis has been a fascinating, wide-ranging discussion, but since so many people have responded to the hair dying idea - I remember someone on this forum awhile back casually mentioning that MC colored his hair. I tend to think that may be true depending on the length of hair and the look he's going for. Perhaps our retinue of photo archivists can help out here. There is photo in that bad biography someone published of Martin with short dark brown hair. It seems perhaps as he has gotten more grey, he sometimes looks more blonde, especially when his hair is long. Can it all be the lighting? Perhaps his actual eye color isn't the only question, but his hair color as well!
I think MC does sometimes dye his hair blonde, but MC and DM are two different people. Well, okay, not exactly, but you know what I mean. I think.
I agree that grumpy probably isn't the right word. Grumpy suggests getting out of bed on the wrong side, a transient emotion/behavior (or a small dwarf who sings with Snow White).
I tend to agree with PoorRichard that the terse, abrupt conversations Doc Martin has with recalcitrant patients often are justified and as the audience, we cheer because he's giving voice to our own thoughts.
But it's when Martin is cruel, withering, dismissive of those who are vulnerable, like children or Al petitioning on behalf of Pauline (still my cause of indignation), that the audience becomes angry on behalf of the victim and disappointed/frustrated with the Doc. It may be that his behavior, which seemed to increase in Series 4 and 5, is related to external events that are making him unhappy and he, in turn, takes it out on others.
For whatever reason, MC and the writers seem to think that this "grumpier" Doc is more interesting. For me, I'm looking for a balance. Not a chatty-Cathy Doc Martin, but one who chooses his targets wisely.
1. DM takes his tea with milk and no sugar but in S4 we see him pouring tea for breakfast, right before running to the school to tell LG he's moving away, and he doesn't use any milk.
2. DM eats out, wanting a pastie, but is rebuffed at the restaurant due to firing Elaine. Perhaps then he just decides to always make his own dinner at home.
3. Buddy the dog is quite the Lothario and likes 'em tiny with goofy names. Apparently Buddy has his way both with Carmen's lap dog, Sir Lancelot, and Carrie's dog.
4. Biffpup brought up the idea that LG has only had her job briefly at PW. In the hospital, we hear that LG and Roger have not spoken for a year, which is when we are to assume that LG took over his job at the PW Primary. Why did they want to fire Roger--did he not do a good job? Attitude? Where was LG before working at the PW school? We are made to think she has been in PW, her childhood village and the village she loves, for a long time, but apparently, that is not the case at all. What made her, perhaps decide to return home? Where was she before her return?
5. Roger shares in the hospital that he has a grown up daughter with whom he is estranged. One wondered if his daughter is alerted to that fact that she has a half sister, in S2, 25 years or so younger than her.
6. I think the theme of this episode is "chip on the shoulder". Elaine has one regarding her mother's early death and her dad remarrying. Roger obviously has one about his being fired before his pension kicked in. LG has one, in regards to DM not being the marvelous, terrific, tall, handsome, caring, fitting into PW doctor she I think really wanted him to be, being attracted to him. That he isn't Mr. Perfect deeply upsets her, I think.
However, I thought the build up of DM and LG missing themselves in the hospital hallways and the parking lot was overdone; the fall-out of her believing he didn't show up at the hospital had a very disappointing denouement in the meeting of her, DM and Roger at the wedding. But, we do immediately see LG thinking the worse of DM and we know that continues onward throughout the entire series.