lets indulge that scenario and think about it objectively, is this "hatred" justified though, i mean really? from a commercial prospective dwuw has done better than venus. now if she "hates" them from an artistic prospective, that is different, but from a commercial viewpoint, i think they know best.;)
Perhaps, but why have Botticelli on the album cover, Venus as the theme of the era, then not release it as a single? Messy.
Perhaps, but why have Botticelli on the album cover, Venus as the theme of the era, then not release it as a single? Messy.
it is messy, but the label only care about maximising profit and it would be a waste of money scrapping the cover. decisions like the single changes have perhaps annoyed her and compromised her vision, but the fact remains that she is on a major label and must follow their guidance. who knows, perhaps there will be more disbanding of working relationships as this all plays out....
You can't really blame Interscope for exercising a more rigid policing of this album compared to BTW though. That must have been one of the most expensive album launches in history and got mullered by a girl from Tottenham on a launch/pr budget probably 95% smaller. I'm sure they will have demanded far more say this time round.
And I know I'm probably going to attract dissenting posts from Gaga fans for saying this, but getting mullered like that by Adele has clearly affected both her and Interscope's confidence very badly. There's no doubt that both Interscope and Gaga were expecting to completely dominate with BTW. Didn't happen and it's been panic stations ever since...
Adele is a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Gaga managed second place with BTW, not bad going if you ask me. BTW is a much better album than Artpop. Gaga thrives on risks, evidently.
will her trip into space give her a big bounce? ( no gags please!)
Its not 100% certain she will actually go ahead & do it. But if she does,that's spectacular publicity.
will her trip into space give her a big bounce? ( no gags please!)
Its not 100% certain she will actually go ahead & do it. But if she does,that's spectacular publicity.
but surely an artist supposedly striving for artistic fulfilment wouldn't allow her art to be compromised in such a tacky publicity stunt?
Perhaps, but why have Botticelli on the album cover, Venus as the theme of the era, then not release it as a single? Messy.
It's still getting a video. And if it's any good people will remember it, single or not.
I'm still undecided about the song, it's the type of song that needs to stand the test of time. Lyrics like "Aphrodite lady seashell bikini" will either be iconic 5, 10, 20 years from now or fade into oblivion.
I think Gaga as a person and performer IS 'arty', but I agree that on the album the music isn't very 'arty' (besides 'artpop' and 'aura' perhaps, in terms of visual possibilities)
I don't think so. Everything Gaga does and wears is often just kitschy and its main purpose is to shock or bring atention to her. Her knowledge about art is very limited and superficial, she is not digging deeper under the surface. Just like when she mistook The Birth of Venus and Venus de Milo (not once but three times!) I was like gurl, that's basic stuff, at least do your research. It seems to me like everytime when some piece of art catches her eye, she just reuses it without thinking much about the context and more importantly, without changing/transforming it into something new and unique. There is nothing wrong with it, it just isn't very artistic.
She reminds me of all the art students at the beginning of their first semester - very excited and very confused about everything. She just tries hard to look more sophisticated and educated than she truly is. And that is one of the reasons I stopped to like her persona. The pretentiousness is too much.
If she wants to be seen as a highbrow artist rather than a pop girl, then she should think about going back to art school or at least about some form of individual education.
but surely an artist supposedly striving for artistic fulfilment wouldn't allow her art to be compromised in such a tacky publicity stunt?
there's a conflict in what Gaga wants. she wants the kudos & respect of being an intellectual "artiste" but also the biggest pop star in the world.
this is where her music & image conflict. eventually she will be forced to pick one or the other.
there's a conflict in what Gaga wants. she wants the kudos & respect of being an intellectual "artiste" but also the biggest pop star in the world.
this is where her music & image conflict. eventually she will be forced to pick one or the other.
yes, but while she is faffing around making that choice, she is losing ground commercially. i suspect the casual listeners will ultimately be making that choice for her.
It's still getting a video. And if it's any good people will remember it, single or not.
I'm still undecided about the song, it's the type of song that needs to stand the test of time. Lyrics like "Aphrodite lady seashell bikini" will either be iconic 5, 10, 20 years from now or fade into oblivion.
Like 'Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini?'
but surely an artist supposedly striving for artistic fulfilment wouldn't allow her art to be compromised in such a tacky publicity stunt?
This was a little unfair. There is nothing tacky about going into space imo. It's more like a dream come true. I would do it if I could, it's wonderful.
Not that I take any notice of what critics think I just noticed ARTPOPs metacritic score is now at 61.
In a way I'm very pleased its turned out this way. It might make me enjoy her again now that certain little monsters can't act like she is the second coming anymore. I found the constant hysterics too off putting and distracting. Not to mention the uncalled for hate on other artists. I think this is going to serve as a massive wake up call and it was needed. Her fans have now been given a much needed dose of reality.
The thing you have to remember is that a lot of her fans are still very young, it's not an excuse but I do think in these cases it's somewhat relevant. When I see things online that a portion of Gaga's fans write (as well as other young fans of popstars) where they over-hype things etc etc, I just think it's the ignorance of youth. Obviously people write some vile things, and this is something that needs to be dealt with as I think (sorry going off at a kinda tangent here) these new total internet generations don't have the same filters that perhaps you and I do. Insults and saying horrific things should never be downplayed or ignored, but when it comes to 'dragging' other artists I really do just think it's childish ignorance.
When I read other forums it makes me feel old, and I'm only 24! I think the excitement and devotion to their favourite artists sometimes spills over and manifests itself into competitions between other artists.
The way I personally feel is this: whilst I would say Gaga is atm my favourite artists, I don't associate myself as a monster and all that stuff makes me uncomfortable. But I think also - Gaga is not immune to people writing bad things about her on the internet, and whilst some of her fans instigate fan wars, they are not alone. I've seen on other articles, forums etc. fans of other artists bringing Gaga into otherwise unrelated topics. And it doesn't make me like that artists any less. I certainly wouldn't ever be pleased an artists wasn't doing as well as expected because of a small portion of a fanbase. I let the music form my opinions, not those of others...
Also, these kids who are now in meltdown because Gaga isn't doing as well as before, or as expected - they've not been around long enough to witness this happening in their favourite artists career. Gaga started off at the top, and had such an explosive start to her career so you get used to that, and think it'll carry on forever. These kids, they don't or didn't understand that this is unsustainable and with every career there's natural peaks and troughs. They'll grow out of it.
It'll be interesting to see what happens now. I don't dislike ARTPOP but it's definitely for me one of her weaker albums. I don't find it as instant as I personally found her previous albums, but the more I listen to it, the more I enjoy it. However, as I've said in the AP, I don't think this will necessarily be an album I play a lot over the years. I don't think this is the end of Gaga at all, I think that would really be underestimating her. She's just a little lost right now in what she wants to be, and what the public want her to be and she's got caught in her own hype - but that doesn't mean it's the end. She's too good a popstar to lose - I've just been watching some interviews of hers - listening to bits of the Howard Stern one and watching the culture show, and whilst of course there's elements of pretention, I love it! What other popstar would do all of this? Her problem is that she's so interested by so many different things, and is so desperate to prove herself and be different and create a legacy, but there needs to be some sort of content limitation. It needs to be more thought-through and streamlined, not so that it's dumbed down or whatever, but just that everything she's trying to convey is delivered in more manageable chunks.
Sorry huge wall of text etc, I get carried away when writing sometimes and just tend to type as I think! Maybe like Gaga, i should learn to streamline...
I don't think so. Everything Gaga does and wears is often just kitschy and its main purpose is to shock or bring atention to her. Her knowledge about art is very limited and superficial, she is not digging deeper under the surface. Just like when she mistook The Birth of Venus and Venus de Milo (not once but three times!) I was like gurl, that's basic stuff, at least do your research. It seems to me like everytime when some piece of art catches her eye, she just reuses it without thinking much about the context and more importantly, without changing/transforming it into something new and unique. There is nothing wrong with it, it just isn't very artistic.
She reminds me of all the art students at the beginning of their first semester - very excited and very confused about everything. She just tries hard to look more sophisticated and educated than she truly is. And that is one of the reasons I stopped to like her persona. The pretentiousness is too much.
If she wants to be seen as a highbrow artist rather than a pop girl, then she should think about going back to art school or at least about some form of individual education.
agree with this. Arty and art are not the same thing and Gaga is the former - the superficial cousin to the real thing.
This whole thing went wrong the day she decided to call the album Artpop, it's a cringey declaration which a bunch of conventional dance pop songs were never going to have a chance of living up to
I've heard Artpop through in full about 7 times now, and I think I am enjoying more and more with each listen, at first I found the array of sounds a little disconcerting, but now it all seems to be clicking into place, definitely not an instant album that you instantly fall in love with.
I get what she was going for, but it certainly still has that "everything and the kitchen sink" feel to it, yet still seems to flow well.
I think she is a little lost in terms of music, The Fame was all about brash, outspoken, catchy pop about sex, drugs and money, maybe she felt shallow doing this which is why we got BTW, the opposite really, delving into matters such as feminism, gay rights etc, but I think she realised that it was too much too soon so decided that for Artpop she'd try and find a comfortable medium between the two, this has kind of worked but I can still hear the divide on the album, some tracks are OBVIOUSLY about spreading messages whereas some tracks are OBVIOUSLY about money, sex etc.
I feel like she needs to be able to input both into one song. And she succeeds with this in songs like Do What U Want and Swine but elsewhere it seems to be one or the other.
This was a little unfair. There is nothing tacky about going into space imo. It's more like a dream come true. I would do it if I could, it's wonderful.
its was the publicity stunt angle of this news that i thought was tacky, not the actual scenario itself.
its was the publicity stunt angle of this news that i thought was tacky, not the actual scenario itself.
But in what way? Somebody else announced it, not her and she hasn't brought it up all that much I don't think. Sure, she'll get publicity for it, but so would anybody who did it. It's a pretty huge deal!
But in what way? Somebody else announced it, not her and she hasn't brought it up all that much I don't think. Sure, she'll get publicity for it, but so would anybody who did it. It's a pretty huge deal!
she has confirmed the news and she was candid in the fact she didn't pay for her ticket. publicity stunts like this and lets be clear here, it is going to generate huge publicity, seems at odds with her latest musings about being all about her art, which was my original point.:)
I'm an old duffer, seen countless pop acts come and go, but i really like Lady Gaga.
Bonkers, but brilliant.
Like some others i found the songs on the new album a bit of a mess at first, but having listened to it 3 or 4 times it's actually a darned fine album.
she has confirmed the news and she was candid in the fact she didn't pay for her ticket. publicity stunts like this and lets be clear here, it is going to generate huge publicity, seems at odds with her latest musings about being all about her art, which was my original point.:)
I don't recall her ever saying that she's all about art. Art is one thing that she's interested in, but why would she turn down the opportunity to perform in space? Because some people might think she's doing it for publicity? Why can't she just do it perhaps because it's an amazing opportunity that I wouldn't even turn down! This performance is in 2015, so it's not like it's next week or something, so won't disturb her ARTPOP promotion or the message that she's trying to get across with this particular album. Of course it will generate publicity, but not just because it's her, but because it's a pretty amazing feat really. That man can now go into space and perform! I think people need to take out the fact that it's Gaga here, and just think how incredible and exciting it is!
I don't recall her ever saying that she's all about art. Art is one thing that she's interested in, but why would she turn down the opportunity to perform in space? Because some people might think she's doing it for publicity? Why can't she just do it perhaps because it's an amazing opportunity that I wouldn't even turn down! This performance is in 2015, so it's not like it's next week or something, so won't disturb her ARTPOP promotion or the message that she's trying to get across with this particular album. Of course it will generate publicity, but not just because it's her, but because it's a pretty amazing feat really. That man can now go into space and perform! I think people need to take out the fact that it's Gaga here, and just think how incredible and exciting it is!
did you not see the culture show? she was concise about her feelings about corporate influence and how she prefers to align herself with independent art figures. its not such a huge leap to come to that conclusion based on what she actually said.
its rather convenient that this news should break at this time though, don't you think? you know, coinciding with the release of this album.
did you not see the culture show? she was concise about her feelings about corporate influence and how she prefers to align herself with independent art figures. its not such a huge leap to come to that conclusion based on what she actually said.
its rather convenient that this news should break at this time though, you know, coinciding with the release of this album, don't you think?
Yes I watched it. She obviously feels very strongly about art, but I don't see that as a reason to criticise her for taking part in a performance in space. I don't really see how the two are interlinked? What she said in that interview is she doesn't like being controlled by corporations (ie her record label). I think it is a big leap to say it's just a publicity stunt to perform in space. She's hardly selling out, and as I've said before it's an incredible opportunity that she's lucky to have been offered. I guess one's viewpoint just depends on why you think she took the opportunity in the first place. Your comments seem to imply that you think she's only doing it for the huge publicity it will give her. Whilst I'm sure that thought has crossed her mind, I'm sure it's not her main reason for doing so. If it was, I'm sure she'd be shouting about it at every opportunity. I'm not really sure how you think she should be acting?
they are not interlinked. its the publicity aspect of this announcement that seems at odds with her comments about breaking away from the mainstream. i feel people are missing that point and reading something completely different to what i am actually writing.
Comments
Perhaps, but why have Botticelli on the album cover, Venus as the theme of the era, then not release it as a single? Messy.
it is messy, but the label only care about maximising profit and it would be a waste of money scrapping the cover. decisions like the single changes have perhaps annoyed her and compromised her vision, but the fact remains that she is on a major label and must follow their guidance. who knows, perhaps there will be more disbanding of working relationships as this all plays out....
Adele is a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Gaga managed second place with BTW, not bad going if you ask me. BTW is a much better album than Artpop. Gaga thrives on risks, evidently.
Its not 100% certain she will actually go ahead & do it. But if she does,that's spectacular publicity.
but surely an artist supposedly striving for artistic fulfilment wouldn't allow her art to be compromised in such a tacky publicity stunt?
It's still getting a video. And if it's any good people will remember it, single or not.
I'm still undecided about the song, it's the type of song that needs to stand the test of time. Lyrics like "Aphrodite lady seashell bikini" will either be iconic 5, 10, 20 years from now or fade into oblivion.
I don't think so. Everything Gaga does and wears is often just kitschy and its main purpose is to shock or bring atention to her. Her knowledge about art is very limited and superficial, she is not digging deeper under the surface. Just like when she mistook The Birth of Venus and Venus de Milo (not once but three times!) I was like gurl, that's basic stuff, at least do your research. It seems to me like everytime when some piece of art catches her eye, she just reuses it without thinking much about the context and more importantly, without changing/transforming it into something new and unique. There is nothing wrong with it, it just isn't very artistic.
She reminds me of all the art students at the beginning of their first semester - very excited and very confused about everything. She just tries hard to look more sophisticated and educated than she truly is. And that is one of the reasons I stopped to like her persona. The pretentiousness is too much.
If she wants to be seen as a highbrow artist rather than a pop girl, then she should think about going back to art school or at least about some form of individual education.
there's a conflict in what Gaga wants. she wants the kudos & respect of being an intellectual "artiste" but also the biggest pop star in the world.
this is where her music & image conflict. eventually she will be forced to pick one or the other.
yes, but while she is faffing around making that choice, she is losing ground commercially. i suspect the casual listeners will ultimately be making that choice for her.
Like 'Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini?'
This was a little unfair. There is nothing tacky about going into space imo. It's more like a dream come true. I would do it if I could, it's wonderful.
Exactly
In a way I'm very pleased its turned out this way. It might make me enjoy her again now that certain little monsters can't act like she is the second coming anymore. I found the constant hysterics too off putting and distracting. Not to mention the uncalled for hate on other artists. I think this is going to serve as a massive wake up call and it was needed. Her fans have now been given a much needed dose of reality.
When I read other forums it makes me feel old, and I'm only 24! I think the excitement and devotion to their favourite artists sometimes spills over and manifests itself into competitions between other artists.
The way I personally feel is this: whilst I would say Gaga is atm my favourite artists, I don't associate myself as a monster and all that stuff makes me uncomfortable. But I think also - Gaga is not immune to people writing bad things about her on the internet, and whilst some of her fans instigate fan wars, they are not alone. I've seen on other articles, forums etc. fans of other artists bringing Gaga into otherwise unrelated topics. And it doesn't make me like that artists any less. I certainly wouldn't ever be pleased an artists wasn't doing as well as expected because of a small portion of a fanbase. I let the music form my opinions, not those of others...
Also, these kids who are now in meltdown because Gaga isn't doing as well as before, or as expected - they've not been around long enough to witness this happening in their favourite artists career. Gaga started off at the top, and had such an explosive start to her career so you get used to that, and think it'll carry on forever. These kids, they don't or didn't understand that this is unsustainable and with every career there's natural peaks and troughs. They'll grow out of it.
It'll be interesting to see what happens now. I don't dislike ARTPOP but it's definitely for me one of her weaker albums. I don't find it as instant as I personally found her previous albums, but the more I listen to it, the more I enjoy it. However, as I've said in the AP, I don't think this will necessarily be an album I play a lot over the years. I don't think this is the end of Gaga at all, I think that would really be underestimating her. She's just a little lost right now in what she wants to be, and what the public want her to be and she's got caught in her own hype - but that doesn't mean it's the end. She's too good a popstar to lose - I've just been watching some interviews of hers - listening to bits of the Howard Stern one and watching the culture show, and whilst of course there's elements of pretention, I love it! What other popstar would do all of this? Her problem is that she's so interested by so many different things, and is so desperate to prove herself and be different and create a legacy, but there needs to be some sort of content limitation. It needs to be more thought-through and streamlined, not so that it's dumbed down or whatever, but just that everything she's trying to convey is delivered in more manageable chunks.
Sorry huge wall of text etc, I get carried away when writing sometimes and just tend to type as I think! Maybe like Gaga, i should learn to streamline...
agree with this. Arty and art are not the same thing and Gaga is the former - the superficial cousin to the real thing.
This whole thing went wrong the day she decided to call the album Artpop, it's a cringey declaration which a bunch of conventional dance pop songs were never going to have a chance of living up to
I get what she was going for, but it certainly still has that "everything and the kitchen sink" feel to it, yet still seems to flow well.
I think she is a little lost in terms of music, The Fame was all about brash, outspoken, catchy pop about sex, drugs and money, maybe she felt shallow doing this which is why we got BTW, the opposite really, delving into matters such as feminism, gay rights etc, but I think she realised that it was too much too soon so decided that for Artpop she'd try and find a comfortable medium between the two, this has kind of worked but I can still hear the divide on the album, some tracks are OBVIOUSLY about spreading messages whereas some tracks are OBVIOUSLY about money, sex etc.
I feel like she needs to be able to input both into one song. And she succeeds with this in songs like Do What U Want and Swine but elsewhere it seems to be one or the other.
its was the publicity stunt angle of this news that i thought was tacky, not the actual scenario itself.
that is pretty low. its clearly her least well received album by the critics.
But in what way? Somebody else announced it, not her and she hasn't brought it up all that much I don't think. Sure, she'll get publicity for it, but so would anybody who did it. It's a pretty huge deal!
she has confirmed the news and she was candid in the fact she didn't pay for her ticket. publicity stunts like this and lets be clear here, it is going to generate huge publicity, seems at odds with her latest musings about being all about her art, which was my original point.:)
Bonkers, but brilliant.
Like some others i found the songs on the new album a bit of a mess at first, but having listened to it 3 or 4 times it's actually a darned fine album.
I don't recall her ever saying that she's all about art. Art is one thing that she's interested in, but why would she turn down the opportunity to perform in space? Because some people might think she's doing it for publicity? Why can't she just do it perhaps because it's an amazing opportunity that I wouldn't even turn down! This performance is in 2015, so it's not like it's next week or something, so won't disturb her ARTPOP promotion or the message that she's trying to get across with this particular album. Of course it will generate publicity, but not just because it's her, but because it's a pretty amazing feat really. That man can now go into space and perform! I think people need to take out the fact that it's Gaga here, and just think how incredible and exciting it is!
did you not see the culture show? she was concise about her feelings about corporate influence and how she prefers to align herself with independent art figures. its not such a huge leap to come to that conclusion based on what she actually said.
its rather convenient that this news should break at this time though, don't you think? you know, coinciding with the release of this album.
no one, including myself ever suggested she should turn this opportunity down.:)
Yes I watched it. She obviously feels very strongly about art, but I don't see that as a reason to criticise her for taking part in a performance in space. I don't really see how the two are interlinked? What she said in that interview is she doesn't like being controlled by corporations (ie her record label). I think it is a big leap to say it's just a publicity stunt to perform in space. She's hardly selling out, and as I've said before it's an incredible opportunity that she's lucky to have been offered. I guess one's viewpoint just depends on why you think she took the opportunity in the first place. Your comments seem to imply that you think she's only doing it for the huge publicity it will give her. Whilst I'm sure that thought has crossed her mind, I'm sure it's not her main reason for doing so. If it was, I'm sure she'd be shouting about it at every opportunity. I'm not really sure how you think she should be acting?
they are not interlinked. its the publicity aspect of this announcement that seems at odds with her comments about breaking away from the mainstream. i feel people are missing that point and reading something completely different to what i am actually writing.