What is the point of Israel attacking Gaza?

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  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    In 1982

    More old nonsense from you jedi. You are without doubt spamming with anti Muslim posts all over the forum. I think we need some clarification of why people critical of Israel end up banned but people who are Islamophobic, like you, are free to post. That is not a hollow accusation either, a trawl of your post history clearly shows it, as does many posters replies to your posts.

    That you don't believe Zionists exist, or seem to know anything about them, doesn't mean it's fiction jedi. It just means you refuse to look because it goes against your beliefs. It appears as long as 'they;' are opponents of Islam/Muslims, that is enough for you. :(

    Any actual comment on the other part of my original post?

    Your Zionist plot has been brewing since the 1800s. So, I see your point :D.

    Developing a comprehensive 100-year plan to advance Islamist ideology throughout the world. If it walks like Zionism

    Involving ideologically committed Muslims in democratically-elected institutions on all levels in the West, including government, NGOs, private organizations and labor unions. If it quacks like Zionism.

    Networking and coordinating actions between likeminded Islamist organizations. It must be Zionism.

    Zionism exists but not the David Icke wacky world of conspiracy theories and bankers taking over the world .
  • BeanybunBeanybun Posts: 3,505
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    I see we have a casualty again amongst those critical of Israel. I look forward to equally keen moderation of those posting inflammatory and unacceptable comments about Muslims...

    Islamic Relief turns down Gaza funds after Israeli ban

    Britain’s biggest Muslim charity has agreed not to use funds raised jointly with other charities for emergency relief in Gaza after Israeli claims that it was acting as a front for Hamas.

    Islamic Relief said it had decided not to use cash raised by the Gaza Crisis Appeal, run by the Disasters Emergency Committee, until it had completed an investigation into the allegations from the Israeli Defence Minister Moshe Ya’alon.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11073602/Islamic-Relief-turns-down-Gaza-funds-after-Israeli-ban.html

    Shameful. Israel is not the law, it doesn't respect laws the rest of the world do, why take notice of their pronouncements?

    I have no doubt British authorities have made it clear to Islamic relief what the consequences will/would be if they donated to Gaza. Power and control is all Zionists are interested in. It's shaming Britain, that is the abstaining UN voter Britain, to be associated and seemingly supportive of such a vicious regime.
    WindWalker wrote: »
    I'm not surprised someone critical of Israel is banned, it happens a lot in this thread. Those critical of Muslims, not so. Even when it has nothing to do with Israel of Gaza. Linking to information you don't want to see isn't a crime. Blind defence of something is no defence at all...

    Are all charities supposed to be fully supportive of Israel and it's aggression before they are allowed to operate?

    It all comes back to control and power, every time. The system of money, central banks, governments, military and arms, all have Zionists within them. If they can't control something, they destroy it. Just look around over the last two decades and see the havoc they have wrecked around the world. Zionists at their finest. God help the rest of us. :(

    Well, I was suspended for four days, for referring to someone's argument as "stupid", which I thought was a tad rough. Ho hum.

    Otherwise, I see you're still wound up, tight as a spring, with your worldwide Zionist conspiracy theories and you've not been banned.

    Do you think the mods are in on it?

    :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,922
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    Your Zionist plot has been brewing since the 1800s. So, I see your point :D.

    Developing a comprehensive 100-year plan to advance Islamist ideology throughout the world. If it walks like Zionism

    Involving ideologically committed Muslims in democratically-elected institutions on all levels in the West, including government, NGOs, private organizations and labor unions. If it quacks like Zionism.

    Networking and coordinating actions between likeminded Islamist organizations. It must be Zionism.

    Zionism exists but not the David Icke wacky world of conspiracy theories and bankers taking over the world .

    If you don't want to believe me, try reading this from a ZH guest. Full credit to Kirk2NCC1701
    Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews.

    Being "Jewish" means being part of a Semitic culture and race, and part of a non-homogenous Judaic religion.

    "Zionism" OTOH, is merely a POLITICAL worldview and political movement from the late 1800s. It has more than one faction, and with its dominant faction of Global/International Zionism (aka Revisionist Zionism) seeking to dominate everyone else. The smaller, silenced National Zionism was the original one, and sought to create a national homeland for the Diaspora Jews, so they could live peacefully and securely within their own borders. Human nature being what it is, it is the Global(ist)/International Zionists who are flexing their imperialist muscles and with whom "Zionism" is almost synonymous - which is a way of hijacking and marginalizing all other forms of Zionism.

    It is also typical that Global Zionists are more devout to the (Babylonian) Talmud than the Torah of Moses, as the former gives them the ruthless mandate and 'forgiveness' that the Torah or Ten Commandments do NOT. In fact, Jesus himself was devoted to the fulfillment of the Torah, whereas he "outed" the Pharisees, Saduccees, Scribes and Temple Money Changers as followers of the Rabbinical writings of the Talmud, and it was Jesus who called them Murderers and followers of the Evil One, Satan, Lucifer.

    I would even argue – and I think there is objective evidence to support this – that most of Zionism and most of modern ‘Judaism’ has been co-opted by a virulent subset (sect) of Jews that is backed by International Banksters, whose lineage and globalist ideology (“One Coin To Rule Them All”) goes back to the Rothschilds in the 1800s. The wealth and power of said Banksters has become so immense that they needed a state of their own, and have created Israel as their "State of Convenience" and its Talmudic religion and customs as "Faith of Convenience". In reality they 'worship' only Money and Power.

    I think that I speak for many/most, when I say that I/we have no issue with a People's Rights to Existence, Self-Determination and Security. I/we do have extreme issues with any closed group that seeks to dominate others via Imperialism -- as is the case for Global/International Zionism.

    Sample References, for those who wish to actually expand their intellectual horizon and vocabulary:

    a. http://www.truetorahjews.org/

    b. http://rt.com/news/180684-israel-rights-group-banned/

    c. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

    d. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_zionism

    e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netanyahu (Revisionist Zionists)

    f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzion_Netanyahu

    g. An honest Israeli, Miko Peled "The General's Son" tells the truth about what modern Israel has become
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14,922
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    dispatches - inside Britain's Israel Lobby

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E70BwA7xgU#t=67

    This is well worth watching, extremely eye opening about our 'democracy' in the UK. Politicians; bought. Policy; bought. Media; bought or silenced. It's all in there, secrecy, big money, influence and watch out for the bit about anti Semite. An accusation that is used purely as a way of shutting people down or to deter further comment. Some damning statistics as well such as the number of visits by MP's to Israel versus MP's to the rest of the world. All paid for by friends or supporters of Israel or Israel itself.

    Towards the end, look at the video and compare it to what we saw over the last couple of months. Yet that was 25 years ago and a different country being attacked. Covers Various Gaza conflicts, all strikingly similar in their brutality and destruction. Note also the bombardment and threats to the BBC for daring to show Israel in an unfavourable way.

    I keep saying it, but it's worth repeating, Zionists are only interested in power and control. They will destroy what they can't control. Dangerous...
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    dispatches - inside Britain's Israel Lobby

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E70BwA7xgU#t=67

    This is well worth watching, extremely eye opening about our 'democracy' in the UK. Politicians; bought. Policy; bought. Media; bought or silenced. It's all in there, secrecy, big money, influence and watch out for the bit about anti Semite. An accusation that is used purely as a way of shutting people down or to deter further comment. Some damning statistics as well such as the number of visits by MP's to Israel versus MP's to the rest of the world. All paid for by friends or supporters of Israel or Israel itself.

    Towards the end, look at the video and compare it to what we saw over the last couple of months. Yet that was 25 years ago and a different country being attacked. Covers Various Gaza conflicts, all strikingly similar in their brutality and destruction. Note also the bombardment and threats to the BBC for daring to show Israel in an unfavourable way.

    I keep saying it, but it's worth repeating, Zionists are only interested in power and control. They will destroy what they can't control. Dangerous...

    Islamists are only interested in power and control. They will murder and destroy anyone who gets in their way, see IS, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, Hamas, Janaweed for perfect examples. I don't see Zionists in Iraq killing Yazedi do you ?

    Dispatches Undercover Mosque.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqy5fy_undercover-mosque_webcam

    Channel 4 documentary which shows Wabbist funded Mosques. Imams preach anti-semeism, hated of gays and bringing Shariah Law to the UK.


    Dispatches - Undercover Mosque: The Return
    http://vimeo.com/85362804

    The follow up documentary

    "This program is a sequel to the Undercover Mosque programme broadcast on 15 January 2007 in the UK. The programme uses footage filmed by undercover reporters in UK mosques and Islamic institutions as well as interviews with Muslim academics and prominent figures. It contains statements by Islamic preachers which espouse violence towards homosexual men, other religions and apostates"

    Not a Zionist in site but plenty of Islamists.
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    WindWalker wrote: »
    If you don't want to believe me, try reading this from a ZH guest. Full credit to Kirk2NCC1701

    So the TLDR is that there are a subset of Jewish people who worship money and power and want to exert their influence over others.

    And for the arabs are semites too point

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Judenhass
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    So the TLDR is that there are a subset of Jewish people who worship money and power and want to exert their influence over others.

    Yup, sadly human nature. Not something exclusive to any one religion.
    And for the arabs are semites too point

    Well, yes. That's an issue with labels. Arab was geographic, ie people from Arabia. That would include Jewish people and exclude Egyptians as many prefer to be North Africans. Semites are more a linguistic and cultural lable that includes Arabs, and there's no anthropological evidence to support it being exclusively Jewish. The mislabling is usually political, ie deliberately confusing anti-semitism with anti-Zionism.

    But anyway, so far the cease fire seems to be holding, not much sign of longer term peace negotiations yet and Israel's back to it's old ways with some ethnic cleansing-

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/palestinian-bedouin-homes-demolished-israel

    The southern Naqab region is home to approximately 160,000 Palestinian Bedouins, according to the Association for Civil Rights in Israel’s estimates. As part of the estimated 1.7 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, they face more than fifty discriminatory laws that limit their access to state resources and stifle political expression, the Haifa-based Adalah Legal Center reports.

    But then the Bedouins seem to get discriminated against pretty much everywhere.
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    Yup, sadly human nature. Not something exclusive to any one religion.

    No its a ridiculous trope repeated by conspiracy theorists and the likes of david duke.

    Well, yes. That's an issue with labels. Arab was geographic, ie people from Arabia. That would include Jewish people and exclude Egyptians as many prefer to be North Africans. Semites are more a linguistic and cultural lable that includes Arabs, and there's no anthropological evidence to support it being exclusively Jewish.

    Considering the term was coined in the 1880's by a german to describe hatred towards jews i'm not sure what the point of saying but arabs are semites to is.
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    No its a ridiculous trope repeated by conspiracy theorists and the likes of david duke.

    Or accusing anti-Zionists of being anti-semitic. It's a simple insult but meaningless if the debate is around the policy or actions of the state.
    Considering the term was coined in the 1880's by a german to describe hatred towards jews i'm not sure what the point of saying but arabs are semites to is.

    The term you quoted is Judenhass, or translates to 'Jew Hate'. Not semite hate. Example of the difference here-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29095044

    A freed French hostage has claimed that one of the Islamists who held him captive in Syria was the suspect in the Jewish Museum shooting in Brussels.

    ...Mr Nemmouche, who is of Franco-Algerian origin, appealed against the extradition from France, fearing he might be sent on to Israel, but lost the case.

    Two of the victims of the 24 May attack were Israeli tourists. A French female volunteer at the museum and a Belgian employee were also killed.


    A hate crime due to the victims (probably) being Jewish, and the perpetrator not really caring about the politics. Hamas typically confines itself to attacking Israeli targets, not Jewish ones outside Israel. Other Islamic groups are less focussed which is why political solutions that reduce anti-Zionist (and thus anti-Jewish) sentiments need to be pursued. Bombing and killing just because people carry the wrong lable isn't the way to bring about any kind of lasting peace in the region.
  • FlibustierFlibustier Posts: 994
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    How much land did the Israelis manage to take from the West Bank this week?
  • jediknight2k1jediknight2k1 Posts: 6,892
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    Flibustier wrote: »
    How much land did the Israelis manage to take from the West Bank this week?

    Zero.

    But the PA refused an offer from Egypt to take on the settlers.

    "Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has rejected an Egyptian proposal to resettle Palestinian refugees in a large tract of land in the Sinai Peninsula to be annexed to the Gaza Strip.

    Speaking to a gathering of his Fatah party in Ramallah Sunday, Abbas said that an unnamed senior Egyptian official recently approached him and suggested settling Palestinians in an area 1,600 square kilometers (618 square miles) large adjacent to Gaza, reviving an idea originally proposed by former Israeli national security adviser Giora Eiland.


    “They [the Egyptians] are prepared to receive all the refugees, [saying] ‘let’s end the refugee story’,” Abbas was quoted by Ma’an news agency as saying.

    The Palestinian leader noted that the idea was first proposed to the Egyptian government in 1956, but was furiously rejected by Palestinian leaders such as PLO militant Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar and poet Muin Bseiso who “understood the danger of this.”
  • rhodrhod Posts: 3,995
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    Zero.

    They did manage to demolish a dairy factory whose profits were the sole income of a charity for orphaned children, though.

    I bet that makes every Zionist's heart swell with pride.
  • FlibustierFlibustier Posts: 994
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    US considers action against Israel after announcement of West Bank land grab -

    See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-considers-action-against-israel-after-announcement-west-bank-land-grab-1893441846#sthash.SY6iUHRY.dpuf
  • FlibustierFlibustier Posts: 994
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    Another thousand acres

    Binyamin Netanyahu orders the biggest land-grab in a generation
    Sep 6th 2014 | From the print edition

    SOME people are never grateful. On August 31st Israel’s government made its largest appropriation of occupied West Bank land in a generation. It took some 1,000 acres of virgin hills for a proposed new city, Givaot, doubling the population of the Gush Etzion block of settlements sprawling on the hills around Bethlehem.

    But it was not enough for the area’s Israeli mayor, Davidi Perl. Frustrated by what he perceives as the government’s grovelling to westerners, on everything from the recently halted war in Gaza to the conduct of peace talks with Palestinians, he says he will change party—defecting from Likud, led by the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, to Jewish Home, a party of religious radicals headed by Naftali Bennett.

    Many others are following. A poll on September 2nd showed that Mr Bennett had, in effect, replaced Mr Netanyahu as champion of the right-wing camp. Although Mr Netanyahu’s approval ratings are roughly on a level with where they stood before the 50-day war in Gaza, much of the approval comes from Israelis who vote for parties left of Likud. Challengers within his party are demanding more aggression in Gaza, where the ceasefire left no clear winners, and faster entrenchment of settlements in the West Bank, even though the settler population is growing three times faster than that of Israel proper.

    During the Gaza war former loyalists like Gidon Saar, his interior minister, repeatedly denounced the ceasefire deal, which envisages a gradual easing of the blockade on Gaza. A bruised Mr Netanyahu is resorting to political outreach. He and his wife, Sara, are hosting party members in the run-up to the Jewish new year. After months of relying on statements, he is again giving televised interviews.

    Mr Netanyahu’s supporters hope that settlement expansion will shore up his core backing on the right. Four parliamentarians come from Gush Etzion, including the foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, the Knesset speaker and the head of its powerful foreign affairs and defence committee. The new settlement, they hope, will assuage the anger at the killing of three Jewish students, whose capture outside a religious school in Gush Etzion sparked the Gaza war.

    But the more Mr Netanyahu indulges the right, the more he alienates the outside world. America, the UN and the European Union have urged Mr Netanyahu to reverse course. The British prime minister, David Cameron, denounced the expansion as “utterly deplorable”.

    To its foreign critics, Mr Netanyahu’s government tries to minimise the move. Tendering for construction has yet to begin, officials note; and even if it should, the land abuts the green line and lies inside blocs of territory that Israel would anyway annex under any conceivable peace agreement with Palestinians.

    Nevertheless, hopes of reviving peace talks are evaporating, just as they did when Mr Netanyahu’s last land appropriation in March made peace talks go “poof”, in the words of John Kerry, the American secretary of state. Mr Netanyahu may have negotiated the Gaza ceasefire with a Palestinian delegation that included the Islamist Hamas movement, which rules Gaza. But he says he will not talk peace with the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, as long as his government is backed by Hamas. His defence minister, Moshe Yaalon, says the arms build-up in Gaza shows that Israel cannot cede the West Bank.

    Spurned again, and under pressure from a resurgent Hamas, Mr Abbas is toying with asking the UN to impose a three-year deadline for ending Israel’s occupation of the West Bank. Even some settlers, along with Mr Netanyahu’s centrist rivals, wonder whether the prime minister has gone too far. “It’s stupid to accelerate Israel’s delegitimisation with steps which make Israel look radical and Palestinians level-headed,” says Yair Kahn, a rabbi at Har Etzion, a large yeshiva in Gush Etzion with a reputation for pragmatism.

    Encircled by Mr Netanyahu’s latest appropriation, Palestinian residents of the bucolic village of Wadi Fukin have already lost all but 450 of the 3,000 acres they once had, and stand to lose more. The hillsides where the village’s 600 sheep and goats graze are set to go. Unable to farm, many men find work as builders, often on Jewish settlements nearby. They may yet be called upon to build homes for Israelis on land they regard as their own.

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21615644-binyamin-netanyahu-orders-biggest-land-grab-generation-another-thousand
  • DinkyDoobieDinkyDoobie Posts: 17,786
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    The term you quoted is Judenhass, or translates to 'Jew Hate'. Not semite hate.

    It was the word that got replaced by anti-semitism in germany as a result of this guy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Marr
  • Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    "Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has rejected an Egyptian proposal to resettle Palestinian refugees in a large tract of land in the Sinai Peninsula to be annexed to the Gaza Strip.

    The refugees are refugees from land originally owned in occupied Israel. This is part of the long-term peace problem. Israel doesn't want any right of return for non-Jews because it would alter the demographics. See also-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

    The initiative attempts to end the Arab–Israeli conflict, which means normalizing relations between the entire Arab region and Israel, in exchange for a complete withdrawal from the occupied territories (including East Jerusalem) and a "just settlement" of the Palestinian refugee crisis based on UN Resolution 194 (which calls for a diplomatic resolution to the conflict and resolves that any refugees "wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors" should be able to do so or, if they otherwise wish, should be provided with compensation).

    And see also the side-bar for alternative suggestions.
    The Palestinian leader noted that the idea was first proposed to the Egyptian government in 1956, but was furiously rejected by Palestinian leaders such as PLO militant Muhammad Youssef Al-Najjar and poet Muin Bseiso who “understood the danger of this.”

    Obvious danger is Israel would simply annex the Gaza Strip, as Feiglin and other Israelis have lobbied to do.
  • The 12th DoctorThe 12th Doctor Posts: 4,338
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    Now I'm not saying my views on Palestine are controversial or anything, but I've been blocked on Twitter by Frankie Boyle almost certainly because of them.
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