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Old 03-06-2008, 15:02
tghewett
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anyone know where I can get a quattro LNB that will fit a sky minidish, or the required adaptor to use a standard quattro LNB on a sky minidish?
I'm not aware of one, all the ones I've seen have a 40mm neck which won't fit a Sky dish. But the usual advice when using a quattro LNB/distribution box setup is to put up a slightly larger dish anyway, e.g. a 60cm dish, and they almost always are designed to take an LNB with a 40mm neck.
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Old 03-06-2008, 15:14
tghewett
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It would probably cost several hundred to get a cherry picker in place to change the LNB.

However, I found this http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page1b.htm and noticed the first multiswitch in the list says quattro OR quad and the price is relatively cheap (65 quid for 8 port).

Am I correct to think one could just place this directly in front of the quad LNB cables with no additional equipment. I am concerned about the note of insertion loss and the need for bigger dishes though.
Yes, this looks like it could hook directly up to an ordinary quad LNB, very good value too, this kind are thin on the ground.

It is true that a slightly larger dish is normally advised when using a distribution switch, but if the dish in question is high up then it probably won't have any obstructions to worry about and the only effect will most likely be that it will be a little more sensitive to weather conditions. My own experience is that the signal strength from my 60cm dish did not deteriorate after installing the quattro LNB/distribution box, previously it had a quad LNB directly connected to the receivers.
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Old 03-06-2008, 15:25
snaithg
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Thanks for that Graham. Not being that technically minded, I'm assuming when you "yes" at the beginning of the post you are saying yes the PVR should work with this setup i.e. both boxes?

There are only two sat connectors but to answer your query about "anything else" on the wallplate there is an output for digital terrestrial (in use) and a DAB radio output.

Once again thanks for taking the time to help me understand what I have and what I can do with the set up.
Sorry, I think I have misled you (my fault for not reading your question correctly, I missed the magic word "PVR").

You will need to have two separate feeds exclusively available to the Humax PVR (when in use) otherwise (my assumption, without actuallyseeing the box) you will have lots of problems with cancelled and failed recordings as is the case with Sky+/HD.

A possible solution MIGHT be to connect one feed to the PVR and the other feed could be used with a "Priority Switch" to provide a signal to either the Sky or Humax box (only one box at a time though).

You might still get problems with this setup since a Sky box likes to be connected to a "live" feed, at least most of the time. I'm guessing the Humax will have a similar requirement.

Priority Switch: http://www.satcure.co.uk/accs/page1b.htm#sps1

My apologies again for misleading you (I really got my knickers in a twist)

Graham.
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Old 03-06-2008, 15:37
snaithg
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So the distribution amp supports diseqc?
No, it doesn't need to.

What the multiswitch (not a conventional distribution amp) does is respond to the normal control signals that would usually be sent to the LNB and uses this information to make a connection to one of the 4 Quatro outputs (Ver/High, Ver/Low, Hor/High, Hor/Low).


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Old 03-06-2008, 17:30
beejay3
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I'm not aware of one, all the ones I've seen have a 40mm neck which won't fit a Sky dish. But the usual advice when using a quattro LNB/distribution box setup is to put up a slightly larger dish anyway, e.g. a 60cm dish, and they almost always are designed to take an LNB with a 40mm neck.
The "Sky" stall at my local Sunday boot sale sells Sky dishes with 40mm neck mounted quads/octos. These slot into the standard Sky LNB arm.
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Old 03-06-2008, 17:33
beejay3
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anyone know where I can get a quattro LNB that will fit a sky minidish, or the required adaptor to use a standard quattro LNB on a sky minidish?
Milton Keynes Sunday boot sale.
Both always on sale there by a Sky installer.
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Old 03-06-2008, 17:48
snaithg
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anyone know where I can get a quattro LNB that will fit a sky minidish, or the required adaptor to use a standard quattro LNB on a sky minidish?
The "Sky" stall at my local Sunday boot sale sells Sky dishes with 40mm neck mounted quads/octos. These slot into the standard Sky LNB arm.
Milton Keynes Sunday boot sale.
Both always on sale there by a Sky installer.
The OP is looking for a "Quatro" not a "Quad". AFAIK there aren't any with a minidish mount and coverage pattern.

It is possible to purchase a 40mm adapter for a minidish, but I really cannot recommend these as the coverage pattern of a 40mm LNB is all wrong for a minidish.

By far the best bet is to use a larger dish with conventional 40mm mount, there are then a choice of Quatros.

Alternatively you could use the solution in this post which allows the use of a standard Quad instead of a Quatro:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...4&postcount=15
May still need a bigger dish though to compensate for multiswitch losses.


Graham.
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Old 03-06-2008, 17:50
feelsolucky
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Strangely enough my sky box has just given up the ghost half an hour ago. I have sky+ in the main room and this was my old Sony box that had a freesky card in it in the conservatory.

I'd like to replace it with a freesat box, if possible one with PVR facilities. I have very little technical knowledge so i'd also need to know whether I could install it myself or get a professional in. And if anyone could recommend me a model I'd truly be grateful!

Thanks in advance for any support
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Old 04-06-2008, 18:11
tghewett
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Strangely enough my sky box has just given up the ghost half an hour ago. I have sky+ in the main room and this was my old Sony box that had a freesky card in it in the conservatory.

I'd like to replace it with a freesat box, if possible one with PVR facilities. I have very little technical knowledge so i'd also need to know whether I could install it myself or get a professional in. And if anyone could recommend me a model I'd truly be grateful!

Thanks in advance for any support
Freesat PVRs are coming along in a few months, possibly even July. For the existing boxes apparently the Bush, Alba and Grundig HD boxes are really all the same inside. If I were to buy one now I'd go for the Humax, at the moment it is the only one which allows you to add in channels which aren't included in the Freesat channel list, and apparently (though I've not see this in the menus) it can control a steerable dish should you want to have one in future.

There should be no problem replacing your old Sony box with a Freesat one, it should just plug straight into the dish cable and work out of the box. If you decide to wait for a PVR then it will probably be twin tuner for which you'll have to run another cable from the dish - twin tuner satellite PVRs need two feeds from the dish. This should be ok as most Sky+ installations use dishes with 4 outputs so yours will probably have a spare (two used for Sky+, one for the old Sony).
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Old 04-06-2008, 18:47
JonStatt
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I have ordered the Vision multiswitch as per SatCure's site that claims both quad and quattro compatibility. I also have a Global stacker/destacker on order to deal with having a PVR in one room where there is only 1 cable in the wall. Fortunately all cabling throughout the house is CT100.

But it will be interesting to see if there is too much signal drop-off after the multi-switch and stacker/destacker.....oh and I am merging terrestrial in there as well.

Insertion loss with the multiswitch from what I can tell is -2dB. So hopefully shouldn't cause an issue. My dish is in a town house right at the top with absolutely no obstructions, so despite it being regular South of England smaller sizing, it should still be fine.

I will report back.
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Old 04-06-2008, 22:09
snaithg
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I have ordered the Vision multiswitch as per SatCure's site that claims both quad and quattro compatibility. I also have a Global stacker/destacker on order to deal with having a PVR in one room where there is only 1 cable in the wall. Fortunately all cabling throughout the house is CT100.

But it will be interesting to see if there is too much signal drop-off after the multi-switch and stacker/destacker.....oh and I am merging terrestrial in there as well.

Insertion loss with the multiswitch from what I can tell is -2dB. So hopefully shouldn't cause an issue. My dish is in a town house right at the top with absolutely no obstructions, so despite it being regular South of England smaller sizing, it should still be fine.

I will report back.
Yes, please do report back. I am very interested in how you get on with the "Vision" multiswitch with a conventional Quad LNB. This could prove to be an absolutely excellent way for domestic users to increase the number of satellite feeds at minimum cost and minimum inconvenience.

You won't get "terrestrial" channels on the Stacker/De-Stacker feed since this device uses the whole of the VHF/UHF frequency bands for the second satellite feed.


Graham.
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Old 04-06-2008, 22:25
JonStatt
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You won't get "terrestrial" channels on the Stacker/De-Stacker feed since this device uses the whole of the VHF/UHF frequency bands for the second satellite feed.


Graham.
I thought that too...but then I read the information about the Global Stacker/Destacker and it says you can use a combiner/diplexer or the multiswitch itself to add terrestrial to input 1 of the stacker.

See the paragraph on
http://www.skywise.tv/global-stacker...ker-p-219.html

and the example wiring diagram on
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product..._schematic.pdf
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Old 04-06-2008, 22:30
snaithg
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I thought that too...but then I read the information about the Global Stacker/Destacker and it says you can use a combiner/diplexer or the multiswitch itself to add terrestrial to input 1 of the stacker.

See the paragraph on
http://www.skywise.tv/global-stacker...ker-p-219.html

and the example wiring diagram on
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product..._schematic.pdf
Well if thats true, your solution just gets better and better.


Graham.
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Old 04-06-2008, 22:47
snaithg
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I thought that too...but then I read the information about the Global Stacker/Destacker and it says you can use a combiner/diplexer or the multiswitch itself to add terrestrial to input 1 of the stacker.

See the paragraph on
http://www.skywise.tv/global-stacker...ker-p-219.html

and the example wiring diagram on
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product..._schematic.pdf
Yes, I see what they have done. They have extended the output frequency from the Stacker to 3.35GHz which makes room for the Terrestrial channels. The Stackers I have seen so far restrict the maximum output frequency to that of a standard LNB (circa 2.15GHz).

Because of the extended frequencies involved you will need to keep the cable length between Stacker/de-Stacker as short as absolutely possible with NO kinks or connectors in the feed.

I really hope you make this work, it's a great solution, at least on paper so far.


Graham.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:05
JonStatt
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Okay received all the kit today.

The Vision multi-switch just works out of the box with a quad LNB with no need to do anything extra (switches etc). The multi-switch has a terrestrial input as well as it has a built-in combiner for it.

The Global stacker/de-stacker works just fine too and was installed in less than 5 minutes. It does successfully hold the terrestrial on input 2 (not 1 as the website indicated), and using a diplexer, I was able to separate out the TV and SAT signals without any problem.

So now I have 2 Sky boxes and a freesat box (5 inputs altogether) working.

My only concern, and maybe I just never noticed it before, is the signal quality as measured on a Sky HD box when watching Movies4Men. This channel is on Eurobird. I am only getting 40% signal quality with this channel now although I don't know what I was getting before.

In comparison, BBC 1 goes off the scale at 100% and most other channels on Astra, are about 80%. Other Eurobird channels like Movies4Men2 strangely, get about 60-70% quality.

Perhaps it is just that one channel on a weak transponder? Today is a blue sky clear day, so I am not sure what it will mean for that channel in poor weather.

Overall the project was a success though and required no access to the dish or LNB.

Jonathan
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:16
snaithg
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Okay received all the kit today.

The Vision multi-switch just works out of the box with a quad LNB with no need to do anything extra (switches etc). The multi-switch has a terrestrial input as well as it has a built-in combiner for it.

The Global stacker/de-stacker works just fine too and was installed in less than 5 minutes. It does successfully hold the terrestrial on input 2 (not 1 as the website indicated), and using a diplexer, I was able to separate out the TV and SAT signals without any problem.

So now I have 2 Sky boxes and a freesat box (5 inputs altogether) working.

My only concern, and maybe I just never noticed it before, is the signal quality as measured on a Sky HD box when watching Movies4Men. This channel is on Eurobird. I am only getting 40% signal quality with this channel now although I don't know what I was getting before.

In comparison, BBC 1 goes off the scale at 100% and most other channels on Astra, are about 80%. Other Eurobird channels like Movies4Men2 strangely, get about 60-70% quality.

Perhaps it is just that one channel on a weak transponder? Today is a blue sky clear day, so I am not sure what it will mean for that channel in poor weather.

Overall the project was a success though and required no access to the dish or LNB.

Jonathan
Fantastic.

A great solution for people in a similar situation to yourself (need more feeds, limited access to dish and cabling but already have Quad fitted).

You could check to see whether the channels you are having problems with are the higher frequencies. These are the ones more likely to be affected by "Stacker" losses. Does the signal quality change if you switch between the two destacker outputs (I would expect one to be slightly worse than the other.

Over all, very well done .

[Edit:] Just seen your comment re Eurobird. Could be that the transmission signal is slightly lower than Astra2 or perhaps your dish alignment is optimised for Astra and a little off Eurobird. Doesn't appear to be anything to worry about though.


Graham.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:26
JonStatt
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Fantastic.

A great solution for people in a similar situation to yourself (need more feeds, limited access to dish and cabling but already have Quad fitted).

You could check to see whether the channels you are having problems with are the higher frequencies. These are the ones more likely to be affected by "Stacker" losses. Does the signal quality change if you switch between the two destacker outputs (I would expect one to be slightly worse than the other.

Over all, very well done .


Graham.

Thank you. I am very happy with the ease at which I was able to deploy this solution.

As for the signal quality, I am actually getting the same readings on both my Sky HD boxes. One of them has 2 separate inputs and is not using a stacker. In other words, I can see no evidence of insertion loss whatsoever. We know thats impossible as there must be loss (about 4dB for stacker), but the cable run is double the length for the non-stacked Sky HD box, so maybe it just balances out.

Eurobird channels
Luxe TV is on 12643H and gets 80% quality
Movies4Men is on 12523H and gets 40% quality
Zone Reality Extra (X) is on 11222H and gets 70% quality

So its not frequency bound, or polarity bound. Maybe the transponder for Movies4Men is just a weaker one?
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:40
snaithg
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Thank you. I am very happy with the ease at which I was able to deploy this solution.

As for the signal quality, I am actually getting the same readings on both my Sky HD boxes. One of them has 2 separate inputs and is not using a stacker. In other words, I can see no evidence of insertion loss whatsoever. We know thats impossible as there must be loss (about 4dB for stacker), but the cable run is double the length for the non-stacked Sky HD box, so maybe it just balances out.

Eurobird channels
Luxe TV is on 12643H and gets 80% quality
Movies4Men is on 12523H and gets 40% quality
Zone Reality Extra (X) is on 11222H and gets 70% quality

So its not frequency bound, or polarity bound. Maybe the transponder for Movies4Men is just a weaker one ?
Now that you mention it, I think I recall others saying that Movies4Men was one of the channels to check to see whether you might have reception problems.


Graham.
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Old 05-06-2008, 16:21
JonStatt
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Now that you mention it, I think I recall others saying that Movies4Men was one of the channels to check to see whether you might have reception problems.


Graham.
Interestingly the Humax Freesat box reads 75% signal quality for the same channel on the same satellite output! So its the Sky HD box reading particularly low...both boxes, both inputs. I can't find any other channels that read as low...so I will keep an eye on this the next time there is heavy rain.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:00
snaithg
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Interestingly the Humax Freesat box reads 75% signal quality for the same channel on the same satellite output! So its the Sky HD box reading particularly low...both boxes, both inputs. I can't find any other channels that read as low...so I will keep an eye on this the next time there is heavy rain.
I wouldn't pay much attention to the meter readings on any STB they are really only an indicator.

The real test is whether you get any problems with video/audio breakup etc. As you say, bad weather will be the true test.


Graham.
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Old 06-06-2008, 18:06
JonStatt
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For those that are interested, following an exchange of emails I had with Satcure, they have now put up an information page on the multi-switch I purchased.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/c12367_vision.htm
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Old 06-06-2008, 19:19
snaithg
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For those that are interested, following an exchange of emails I had with Satcure, they have now put up an information page on the multi-switch I purchased.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/c12367_vision.htm
Thanks.

Satcure are being very responsive as usual. Good to see.

A pity that "Vision" don't make 9 input devices or I would be buying one of those instead of a Triax.


Graham.
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