[derek500]

Originally Posted by smudgerpugs

I agree re MOTD. I think people who say there is no difference between 1 and 1HD need their eyes tested.

Or they're sitting too far from their TV. At two times screen size - seven feet from a 42" plasma, the recommended distance for HD - I can easily tell the difference.

[alves]

The PQ for the Cardiff game looked like SD compared to the Arsenal game on Sky. Terrible.

[dazb]

Indeed it was basic facts are BBC can not produce HD material especially for sport, of course when BBC first launched the HD channel back in 2007 it did have the wow factor but then they slashed the bit rates and after a campaign by people to get the bit rate upped they now use VBR.

[johnash]

The problem is that the BBC "HD" is not everyone else's "HD". They are broadcasting 1440x1080 instead of 1920x1080 and their bitrate is significantly lower than most others.

So, whatever the source, it's not going to look like proper HD.

This is a huge disappointment from the BBC, up until now the home of technological excellence.

For more on this see http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...hd_a_vi_2.html

[derek500]

Originally Posted by johnash

The problem is that the BBC "HD" is not everyone else's "HD". They are broadcasting 1440x1080 instead of 1920x1080 and their bitrate is significantly lower than most others.

So do some of the ITV1 HD regions. But having VBR Strictly is so much better than X Factor where the CBR of 10.6mbs just can't cope.

[bobmeades]

Originally Posted by mersey70

At least they seem to have dropped the DOG. No sign of it on Sunday AM and Sunday Morning Live which is on now.

Maybe they are saving it for native programming like ITV1, C4 and C5.

It won't get used very much then!

[johnash]

Originally Posted by derek500

So do some of the ITV1 HD regions. But having VBR Strictly is so much better than X Factor where the CBR of 10.6mbs just can't cope.

Derek, could you expand on this? How do ITV regions come into this? Does it depend which region the programme is sourced from? As there is only 1 ITVHD on Sky is there not?

[SNOWDROP252]

To add my thoughts on the subject..............I do not understand why people go rambling on about Bitrates, CBR ( Whatever they are ) and other technical data to do with how good HD looks.

I use a reliable MARK 1 EYEBALL and I find no problems whatsover in the quality of Sky HD.

If you are looking for faults all the time then I am sure they can be found in everything there is in this world......sit back and relax.There is no such thing as perfection.

[derek500]

Originally Posted by johnash

Derek, could you expand on this? How do ITV regions come into this? Does it depend which region the programme is sourced from? As there is only 1 ITVHD on Sky is there not?

There are five ITV1 HD regions on DSAT.

Granada and Central are on Astra 2D and handled by Sky with a 1920x1080 resolution (but no DD sound!!).

ITV1 HD London is on 2D and is uplinked by ITV it uses 1440x1080 resolution as does ITV1 HD Meridian which is on a wide beam, uplinked by ITV but encrypted by Sky.

Finally there is still the original 'red button' version on Eurobird which also broadcasts 1440x1080.

[johnash]

Originally Posted by SNOWDROP252

To add my thoughts on the subject..............I do not understand why people go rambling on about Bitrates, CBR ( Whatever they are ) and other technical data to do with how good HD looks.

I use a reliable MARK 1 EYEBALL and I find no problems whatsover in the quality of Sky HD.

If you are looking for faults all the time then I am sure they can be found in everything there is in this world......sit back and relax.There is no such thing as perfection.

Nothing wrong with Sky HD. Or ITV HD etc etc. The problem is with BBC HD. My eyeball tells me very clearly it is not as HD as it should and could be.

[johnash]

Originally Posted by derek500

There are five ITV1 HD regions on DSAT.

Granada and Central are on Astra 2D and handled by Sky with a 1920x1080 resolution (but no DD sound!!).

ITV1 HD London is on 2D and is uplinked by ITV it uses 1440x1080 resolution as does ITV1 HD Meridian which is on a wide beam, uplinked by ITV but encrypted by Sky.

Finally there is still the original 'red button' version on Eurobird which also broadcasts 1440x1080.

Aha! Not as simple as I thought. It never is! So as a relatively new Sky+ HD subscriber with a Bristol postcode, I wonder which feed we are getting? I must watch out for local news??

EDIT: It's Central. No wonder ITV HD looks so good compared to the sorry BBC offerings. Even my HD home movies are better than that!

[masona2]

What was wrong with the welsh derby PQ?

It looked great on my telly.

[Mickey_T]

Originally Posted by masona2

What was wrong with the welsh derby PQ?

It looked great on my telly.

It looked ok, especially when compared to the normal SD on BBC1.
However the FA Cup game on ITV looked sharper imo.

The Grand Prix looked nice in upscaled SD though.

[masona2]

Originally Posted by Mickey_T

It looked ok, especially when compared to the normal SD on BBC1.
However the FA Cup game on ITV looked sharper imo.

The Grand Prix looked nice in upscaled SD though.

Agree.

And last night, Blade Runner looked superb!

[johnny7]

Originally Posted by Premiere HD

Footage from Old Trafford is definately HD

If you read this blog you will see that Andy Quested, Head of Technology, BBC HD & 3D, BBC Future Media & Technology, appears to disagree with you assertion.

He says "all football yesterday was SD ... from Focus through the rest of the day to MOTD".

So, despite the announcer saying "Now on BBC1 and IN HIGH DEFINITION on BBC1HD, we couldn't really make it any more clear, it's Football Focus", and the presenter, Dan Walker, claiming the programme was in "glorious HD", the BBC's Head of Technology, BBC HD, thinks the programme was SD.

How Joe Public is meant to make sense of all this I do not know.

john

--
There's a poll about BBC HD Picture quality here
http://hdcampaign.kk5.org/

[johnash]

Well, I've just been watching the rowing on Eurosport HD on Sky. Now that is a WOW. No idea what bit rate or resolution they use but it's a great picture. What HD should be. There is almost a 3D aspect and wonderful crispness. Using the capabilities of my Panasonic plasma to the full.

Never thought there would be the day when Eurosport would outshine the BBC. And by miles!

[alves]

Eurosport HD is more often than not excellent. The tennis on there is always great.

[zub]

BBC HD content sucks most of the time, they just can't seem to get it right after the bitrate cut.

[mwardy]

And they are quickly clamping down on any attempt to discuss picture quality:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...tml#P102820511

Many if not most of the posts there are not from the usual suspects (which includes me ) but from new contributors, making quite general points about it not looking as good as it should, reporting transmission dropouts, blasts of blocking (which is somewhat disturbing since blocking did seem to have become a thing of the past with the move to VBR) and so on.

There is nowhere left on the BBC blog to discuss HD picture quality now. They refer to the Trust appeal and insist everything PQ related is thus going over old ground where all questions have been resolved. Which is doubly false. They are clearly desperate to have the issue disappear and are resorting to quite disgraceful tactics to make it do so.

I started the whole HD thing very much as a staunch supporter of the BBC, but a variety of factors is steadily dissolving my belief in it.

[alves]

- DOGs are off topic
- picture quality is off topic

Wow.

[Ginger Geek]

It would seem so:

"At 3:16pm on 08 Nov 2010, Nick Reynolds wrote:
Can I just remind people that:

- this is not a general message board thread for everything about BBC HD
- DOGs are off topic
- picture quality is off topic

If the conversation continues in this direction I may have to reluctantly close this post for further comment.

Thanks"

What arrogance! We will discuss what we bloody well like as we pay them money,

[mgroves]

Originally Posted by Ginger Geek

.... We will discuss what we bloody well like as we pay them money,

What arrogance...

[Gorilla69]

If its off topic then that is fair enough... What the moderator should do is point them where it would be on topic. That is the sign of a good moderator.

[dazb]

Have u seen the DOG on BBCHD they have made it same size as BBC1HD looks a damm site better but would still love to see it gone.

[Ginger Geek]

Originally Posted by mgroves

What arrogance...

Yes dear as we are the customers and if we want to complain about any aspect, it is our right to. That isn't arrogance.

What's with this place and the company knows best, roll over and play dead attitude?