Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

Source Code new film from Duncan Jones (Merged)


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2011, 22:32
threecheeses
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Left London
Posts: 17,729
If the parallel universes already exist then why were the exact same people on the train each time, one might have been sick or dead in one universe? Unless that is the exact point of change where they become different universes as he exists in one and not the other.

If they created a new Universe each time then they killed off millions in all but about 2 of them each time and how do the people just suddenly exist in those universes at that stage in their life?

I like the theory that the Universe ceased to exist each time after the 8 minutes until the final one where he joined an already existing alt universe.

Every explanation just leads to more questions.


Just to add: I didn't know the cast apart from Jake and thought Goodwin was played by his sister Maggie at first.
threecheeses is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 07-04-2011, 23:37
Jack_Burton
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hell of Upside Down Sinners
Posts: 263
Yes, I think that's more likely than that the SC device is creating them; the latter would be more of a stretch. You seemed to disagree.
QM was specifically cited (Rutledge's quote) and the branch point is the start of the last 8 mins of Fentress' consciousness. SC presents a fairly mainstream interpretation (not universally agreed) of QM which throws up the kind of fanciful notions that make good sci-fi.

If the universes were already existing they would be markedly different (as 3cheeses alludes to above) since they would have emerged from earlier branch points, and it would be nigh impossible to identify what those points were. SC would have to somehow locate appropriate universes and open a window at the exact same time in those universes, at a later time each time in the primary reality - a massive computational stretch.
Jack_Burton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 19:43
Virgil Tracy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,294
i thought Jakes acted brilliantly in this film. and in most reviews they mention how great he is.

your opinion would be more valid if you could actually spell the name of the actor you are dissing lol.
well with grammar like that ^ I'd have to call "pot>kettle>black " lol
Virgil Tracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 20:49
brangdon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 10,770
QM was specifically cited (Rutledge's quote)
Yes, we agree QM is involved.

and the branch point is the start of the last 8 mins of Fentress' consciousness.
In the many worlds interpretation, every moment is a branch point. Rutledge was claiming that something extra was happing when they used the SC.

If the universes were already existing they would be markedly different (as 3cheeses alludes to above) since they would have emerged from earlier branch points,
Universes branch off continuously, so there are a great many of them. Some would be very different, some would be almost the same, depending on how long ago their nearest common ancestor was. Some universes would be identical except with one quantum bit flipped - eg one radioactive atom that's decayed in one universe and not in the other, that being the cause of the branch.

and it would be nigh impossible to identify what those points were.
That would be why they needed the dead guy. His consciousness had existed on the train as it was, and provides a link to all those moments. They picked the earliest moment they could, but presumably could have gone back to any point in the eight minutes. Whichever point they went to, would have been congruent to Fentress's experiences because it is his conciousness which identifies and indexes the universe.

It's a different interpretation, but I think consistent with what happens in the movie, especially if we accept Rutledge either doesn't understand his machine or else is being deceptive about it.

SC would have to somehow locate appropriate universes and open a window at the exact same time in those universes, at a later time each time in the primary reality - a massive computational stretch.
It's not so much a matter of computation as what consciousness is and does.

What is a stretch is for the Source Code device to somehow undo all the branches that have happened since 8 minutes before Fentress died, and create a new universe in that reversed state. It needs to reverse time. That's not what happens with the usual many world interpretation.
brangdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2011, 21:27
Jack_Burton
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hell of Upside Down Sinners
Posts: 263
Hi brangdon. The first 3/4 of your post doesn't contradict anything I said (it's just phrased in a more convoluted way ). SC located and used the same branch point to create a new alternate reality every time it was run. You cite the dead guy's consciousness as the locator for this - yep, that was my point. Re: your final paragraph, where we actually diverge, it was my interpretation there was no "reversing of time" - turned out every one of these alternate realities ran their course beyond the 8mins (my post #54). Looks like we'll have to agree to occupy opposite quantum states on this one.

A fun film, anyway
Jack_Burton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 23:12
mintchocchip
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,245
I saw this today and loved it.
mintchocchip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2011, 23:42
kyri
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 27,629
I usually hate time travelling(ish) films and Jake Gyllenhaal but...

I loved it.

Thought it was nicely paced and lot's of fun.
kyri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 06:28
NorfolkBoy1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Norwich
Posts: 4,056
been meaning to say since Wednesday: OMMFG how f****ng awesome was THAT???

A film like that probably deserves a more eloquent and considered review, but hell, it's early, suffice it to say my girlfreind (fairly resistant to sci-fi) and I loved it.
NorfolkBoy1 is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 14:37
brangdon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 10,770
Hi brangdon. The first 3/4 of your post doesn't contradict anything I said (it's just phrased in a more convoluted way ). SC located and used the same branch point to create a new alternate reality every time it was run.
I'm suggesting it found existing alternate universes rather than created new ones.

Re: your final paragraph, where we actually diverge, it was my interpretation there was no "reversing of time" -
If those universes were created, they were created in the state they were in 8 minutes before the bomb went off. That's very different to the normal universe branching in many-worlds QM, where each branching produces universes which are very similar to the stem.

If the alternates universes are being created rather than found, then at the point the SC machine is invoked, the state they are in doesn't exist and has to be recovered or created somehow by the SC machine. That's what I mean by reversing time. Not just creating a new universe, but creating one in a past state.

turned out every one of these alternate realities ran their course beyond the 8mins (my post #54).
Well, we don't see that, and if you believe the universes were created by SC, then it's logical that they ceased to exist when Colter's consciousness returned back to the base reality; that they needed his presence to sustain them, and only existed while he observed them. Where-as if they pre-existed, then they would have continued to exist without Colter.

It's a shame that Colter either dies in the alternate (and then comes back to the base), or else dies in the base (and then continues in the alternate). You have to wonder, had he just got off the train and walked away and never died in the alternate, whether Goodwin et al could have done anything about it. I suspect not - they couldn't do much when he lost contact from them in his cell. All they could do was switch off his life support, which is what happened at the end anyway.

If they did have a way to force him back, maybe Sean would have got his body back.

Looks like we'll have to agree to occupy opposite quantum states on this one.

A fun film, anyway
Yes; this isn't an angry debate, it's just fun thinking about the film and bouncing around possible interpretations of it.
brangdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 15:36
UltraViolet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: England
Posts: 7,607
I really hope Jones turns down directing Wolverine 2... do more original stuff!
UltraViolet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2011, 20:32
welwynrose
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Posts: 27,449
Looking at Box Office Mojo it's already broken even
welwynrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 20:51
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 39,136
I just got back from seeing Source Code.
Very good film , 4/5 Groundhog Day meets Total Recall/Inception
Very intriguing idea with themes about fate, and the theory of multiple universes.
I felt it was even too short in some ways with a lot to pack into 90 minutes.

Spoiler


Plot Hole?
Spoiler
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 21:12
Froggie72
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,666
Saw it at the week-end. Thought it was good but not that good... And whatever happened to Sean???

Spoiler
Froggie72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 21:16
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 39,136
That's what I was wondering... why didnt Jake Gyllenhaal look for him in the Source Code?
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 21:39
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 39,136
Also IMO this was a plot hole -
Spoiler


Still a very good film though.
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 08:21
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 39,136
IMO,
Spoiler
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2011, 11:59
welwynrose
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Welwyn Garden City
Posts: 27,449
Also IMO this was a plot hole -
Spoiler


Still a very good film though.
They didn't know

Spoiler
welwynrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-04-2011, 23:48
Yuffie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 5,821
Just back from seeing this and I liked it ..... but the end was missing something for me, I don't know what, maybe I would have been happier with the freeze frame, I don't know !! 8 /10.

I'm not going to get into the quantom dishwasher tablets physics of it all but the investigation seemed to just stop in the end and the nerdiness part of it took off.

I mean thats not how Jack Bauer would have ended things ...
Spoiler


I think I might have expected a little bit more on that part but overall, very good !!
Yuffie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2011, 18:16
OneTreeHillFan
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Swansea
Posts: 7,277
Saw this today, enjoyed it
OneTreeHillFan is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2011, 22:01
MrSuper
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 7,379
Saw this and i have to say i really liked it. I know there are some people arguing over plot holes when it comes to the 'science' of the source code but take that all away and as a film i really enjoyed. It was equally clever and smart as it was entertaining and brilliantly acted. Jake Gyllenhaal seems to be going down the same path Leonardo DiCaprio went down and in a couple of years time could be huge. I like how he mixes films like this with smaller fare like Brothers for example. I also thought Vera Farmiga was excellent too.

The ending left me with questions and made it messy, don't think it needed to end that way but i understand why they chose to do it instead of the usual typical happy Hollywood ending (eg. freezeframe!). Looking forward to Duncan's next film whatever it may be!

Spoiler
MrSuper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2011, 18:03
Steve AWOL
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Buckinghamshire
Posts: 1,897
Saw this movie up Odeon last night and thought it was an enjoyable sci-fi thriller but, like many other people have mentioned in this thread already, the movie should've ended when the 8 minutes were up as the schmaltz at the end slightly spoiled it for me. 7/10
Steve AWOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 17:17
starsailor
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,744
Saw this movie up Odeon last night and thought it was an enjoyable sci-fi thriller but, like many other people have mentioned in this thread already, the movie should've ended when the 8 minutes were up as the schmaltz at the end slightly spoiled it for me. 7/10
I agree..would have been happy with the freeze frame at the end when his 8mins was up.

I can only assume the studio, or whoever wanted a little more upbeat ending. But it then leaves the messy subject of what happened to the guy he replaced He's effectively stolen his body and killed him.
starsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 17:32
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 39,136
I agree with that - I wondered why he didnt try and search for "another" Sean, what on earth happened to him?
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 19:37
Alli-F
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 27,682
I agree..would have been happy with the freeze frame at the end when his 8mins was up.

I can only assume the studio, or whoever wanted a little more upbeat ending. But it then leaves the messy subject of what happened to the guy he replaced He's effectively stolen his body and killed him.

In my head, Sean dies in every other reality anyway, so the only way that Sean's "body" can live on is with Colter in it to save him if that makes any sense. I'm not a sci fi geek though, so I don't know if I'm missing some obvious point.
Alli-F is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2011, 22:03
boddism
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: South Coast
Posts: 14,135
I suspect the freeze frame was the original ending, and someone meddled!
I too have noticed that this tendancy to over egg the endings of films (AI being a classic example) is endemic in Hollywood these days, & is a pain in the ass! So many film have neat, natural endings that just dont end up being the final scene... I suspect its the desire to leave the audience wanting more that adds these complex & unanswered endings we see so often. To me its a bit showy offy: Look how clever we are!

I loved this film, but for me I saw this ending differently. In fact,

Spoiler
boddism is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:32.