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Old 17-04-2012, 17:19
Colphl3
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There is no evidence to suggest that River only met the Tenth Doctor once. She could have met him off screen a few times before he regenerated.
This is highly unlikely though...
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Old 17-04-2012, 17:32
Granny McSmith
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According to rumours River will not be departing with Amy and Rory. River is basically the New Jack and will still be popping up from time to time even after Amy and Rory leave.
It depends what future writers want to do with her....ooh, that was worded badly.

There is no evidence to suggest that River only met the Tenth Doctor once. She could have met him off screen a few times before he regenerated.
In my own personal scenario of the meetings between River and 10, she met him a few times, and he was the one who took her to the Singing Towers.

I know it's 11 on the DVD extras, but I think Moffat must have got it wrong.

I did think, though, that she would meet Doctors after 11. Otherwise why have pictures of his other regenerations?
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Old 17-04-2012, 18:57
Mystical123
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This is highly unlikely though...
Not at all, it's just as likely as it is unlikely. There's nothing to say that the Christmas Special in 2008 immediately followed series 4, and nothing to say that time hasn't passed between the specials. There was potentially plenty of time in which the Doctor could have met River. She obviously has spent much more time with the 11th Doctor, but there's nothing to say she didn't meet the 10th several times.
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Old 17-04-2012, 19:07
Indrid Cold
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I think I read somewhere that one more story with River and 10 had been planned, which would explain how she recognised him in the library, but it was canned. I could be wrong though.
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Old 17-04-2012, 20:31
Listentome
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It depends what future writers want to do with her....ooh, that was worded badly.



In my own personal scenario of the meetings between River and 10, she met him a few times, and he was the one who took her to the Singing Towers.

I know it's 11 on the DVD extras, but I think Moffat must have got it wrong.

I did think, though, that she would meet Doctors after 11. Otherwise why have pictures of his other regenerations?
I assume she has pictures of earlier Doctors as part of a dossier she has regardless of whether she will meet them or not. But given time travel can be hazardous she might end up meeting a very early version and cause some sort of paradox, given the earliest version to have met her is 10 in the library.

Also I'm not sure why people think River's appearances need to come to an end when the Ponds leave. There's nothing to suggest this. Let's face it she sent The Tenth Doctor a psychic message to meet her in the library long after her parents have left from River's point of view.
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Old 18-04-2012, 00:42
Wryip
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ABC2 have just started reshowing series 6, and I really can't get into it. The purpose of the silence was to kill the doctor and protect the girl, so why kill Joy in the toilets, why not kill the Doctor at numerous other points? Also personally I didn't like the joke character of Richard Nixon, it didn't fit with the tone of the episode. TCOTBS was rather childish, too many unfunny jokes, and yet again the dramatic device of killing rory happened.

I wouldn't say series 6 having the river song story overshadowed the rest of it, but it felt like the other episodes didn't matter. Episode 4 was brilliant, but asides from that those stories that didn't feature in the arc were pretty poor. And apart from the silence and cybermen where were the alien monsters. Series 5 had Daleks, Weeping Angels, Silurians, Vampires, series 6 was more sci-fi based. For me doctor who is best when it relies on monster of the week style episodes. Hence why I prefer Tom baker's early years to his latter ones. And after building up to the series arc conclusion episode 13 really was a damp squib.

From what I've heard of Series 7 it sounds to be moving in the right direction, with Daleks and Weeping Angels, and the Western episode. Hopefully another returning monster, and maybe some more answers to the Amy/Rory/River plot will occur in New York
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Old 18-04-2012, 09:40
sebbie3000
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ABC2 have just started reshowing series 6, and I really can't get into it. The purpose of the silence was to kill the doctor and protect the girl, so why kill Joy in the toilets, why not kill the Doctor at numerous other points? Also personally I didn't like the joke character of Richard Nixon, it didn't fit with the tone of the episode. TCOTBS was rather childish, too many unfunny jokes, and yet again the dramatic device of killing rory happened.

I wouldn't say series 6 having the river song story overshadowed the rest of it, but it felt like the other episodes didn't matter. Episode 4 was brilliant, but asides from that those stories that didn't feature in the arc were pretty poor. And apart from the silence and cybermen where were the alien monsters. Series 5 had Daleks, Weeping Angels, Silurians, Vampires, series 6 was more sci-fi based. For me doctor who is best when it relies on monster of the week style episodes. Hence why I prefer Tom baker's early years to his latter ones. And after building up to the series arc conclusion episode 13 really was a damp squib.

From what I've heard of Series 7 it sounds to be moving in the right direction, with Daleks and Weeping Angels, and the Western episode. Hopefully another returning monster, and maybe some more answers to the Amy/Rory/River plot will occur in New York
Just thought I'd field the one in bold... The reason they didn't was that they couldn't. The Doctor's 'death' was a fixed point in time. Which is the reason for things going all terribly squiffy when his 'death' is averted. They could only 'kill' the Doctor at Lake Silencio on April 22, 2011.
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Old 18-04-2012, 10:12
johnnysaucepn
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And apart from the silence and cybermen where were the alien monsters. Series 5 had Daleks, Weeping Angels, Silurians, Vampires, series 6 was more sci-fi based. For me doctor who is best when it relies on monster of the week style episodes.
And Series 6 had the Silents, the Siren, House, the Flesh, creepy Peg Dolls, an almost-Nimon, and Cybermen. And that's not to mention the cameos of just about all the races from Series 5.
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Old 18-04-2012, 10:16
johnnysaucepn
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The purpose of the silence was to kill the doctor and protect the girl, so why kill Joy in the toilets, why not kill the Doctor at numerous other points?
To add to what sebbie said - they tried. They tried with Melody in the spacesuit when she was a girl, they tried when she regenerated into River in Let's Kill Hitler, they tried to blow up the TARDIS.

It's worth pointing out that even the fixed point in time that they strived to create wasn't even the death of the Doctor, but a counterfeit.

And from a storytelling point of view, killing the Time Lord hero of the series shouldn't be an easy thing to do, right?
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Old 18-04-2012, 17:58
Whovian1109
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This is highly unlikely though...
I might be wrong but didn't Moff at one point say that there WERE unshown meetings between Ten and River (although clearly their final meeting at Deryllium belongs to Eleven...
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Old 18-04-2012, 18:46
Corwin
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I might be wrong but didn't Moff at one point say that there WERE unshown meetings between Ten and River (although clearly their final meeting at Deryllium belongs to Eleven...
He gave the Doctor a line in Time of Angels saying that he and River "keep" meeting in the wrong order.

Not something that would be said if ToA was only their second meeting. While these other meetings could be 11 and River (in the 2 mins/2 years he left Amy) they were probably 10/River meetings.

Moffat also said ToA was their first major encounter since the Library and for something to be major there there had to be minor ecounters as well.
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Old 18-04-2012, 19:32
Tom Tit
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This whole 'fixed point in time' tripe has gotten a little out of hand. It started as a convenience, a way that the writers could have 'it is possible to change time stories' and 'it isn't possible to change time stories' all at the same time - basically, have their cake and eat it. And also, clear up that whole morass of contradictory stories regarding this issue in Who's history.

Personally, I take a holistic view of time: The Doctor, or anyone else, can do anything they want to do because whatever they do is what happened anyway. The reason the Doctor can't go back and stop Pompeii from being destroyed is because he knows it happened. To him, the idea of stopping it would rank alongside the idea of stopping apples from being apples. This would explain why the Time Lords made the strange decision to banish the Third Doctor to Earth; they knew it was what happened. I guess you'd say there was a good reason most time Lords choose to stay at home. You'd get a headache pretty quickly.

This, whilst being far more credible than the claptrap of 'fixed points in time' rather gets in the way of 'history being changed' stories though, and also means there can be no threat of, say, Victorian London being destroyed by a giant cyberman.

Unfortunately, whilst intended as a quick, get out of jail expedience, too many fans have started taking this 'fixed point' idea too seriously and it has recently become a little too prominent in the mythology, playing an important part in the fabric of the stories themselves, as this thread shows. It's a shame, as I do believe that Steven Moffat is one of the few Doctor Who writers who actually has a good grasp of what Time actually is and how it works (according to our best theories, of course). But he started disregarding it, in order to do the story he wanted to do, in 'A Christmas Carol', and then resorted to expedience in the series 6 finale. I don't really blame him but this 'fixed points' claptrap is starting to grate on me. It's become a rather loathsome plot device enabling the show to ignore the rules it set the previous week.
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Old 19-04-2012, 02:54
codename_47
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He gave the Doctor a line in Time of Angels saying that he and River "keep" meeting in the wrong order.

Not something that would be said if ToA was only their second meeting. While these other meetings could be 11 and River (in the 2 mins/2 years he left Amy) they were probably 10/River meetings.

Moffat also said ToA was their first major encounter since the Library and for something to be major there there had to be minor ecounters as well.
Well it was revealed in the Sarah Jane ep with the 11th that the farewells we saw on screen were just the tip of the iceberg of the amount of people the Tenth caught up with on his goodbye tour, he seemingly was going to have a stalking session on anyone he was remotely connected with (Yesssss, I'm sure he probably went and saw Sally Sparrow too, why not? )

So I can easily imagine he dropped by River at some point during that process, maybe that's where she truely learnt about regeneration, depending on her timeline, or maybe that explains just WHY he was so upset about his impending death more than any other, because he knew exactly what was to come, Doctor-wise!

He had to tell her what happened to Donna at some point too, which I doubt the 11th would have gone into in great depth.

"OMG, you're Donna Noble, you had your mind wiped then you became a milionaress, well, you know, swings and roundabouts!"
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Old 19-04-2012, 03:11
Nikki E.
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Well it was revealed in the Sarah Jane ep with the 11th that the farewells we saw on screen were just the tip of the iceberg of the amount of people the Tenth caught up with on his goodbye tour, he seemingly was going to have a stalking session on anyone he was remotely connected with (Yesssss, I'm sure he probably went and saw Sally Sparrow too, why not? )

So I can easily imagine he dropped by River at some point during that process, maybe that's where she truely learnt about regeneration, depending on her timeline, or maybe that explains just WHY he was so upset about his impending death more than any other, because he knew exactly what was to come, Doctor-wise!

He had to tell her what happened to Donna at some point too, which I doubt the 11th would have gone into in great depth.

"OMG, you're Donna Noble, you had your mind wiped then you became a milionaress, well, you know, swings and roundabouts!"
BIB: Just laughed so hard at that description, and now have images of an Ood issuing the Doctor with a restraining order.
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Old 19-04-2012, 09:47
Kapellmeister
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In all fairness to the OP, series 6 was complete gibberish anyway.
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Old 19-04-2012, 21:50
The Gatherer
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In all fairness to the OP, series 6 was complete gibberish anyway.
So true.
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Old 19-04-2012, 22:17
Fire Host
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In all fairness to the OP, series 6 was complete gibberish anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr0FJa77akc

It had a much stronger than usual story-arc, with multiple running threads (the Doctor's death, is Amy pregnant, who's the little girl, where does River come into it, who and what are The Silence, what's The Question) but to call it 'gibberish'... I can't understand that point of view at all.
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Old 19-04-2012, 23:28
Mystical123
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In all fairness to the OP, series 6 was complete gibberish anyway.
In your opinion - I disagree.
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Old 20-04-2012, 07:32
Whovian1109
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In all fairness to the OP, series 6 was complete gibberish anyway.
Is there any point just coming into a thread to just throw out an insult with no back up behind it? The OP went into a huge list of reasonings behind his issues. Whilst there were clearly elements to series 6 you didn't like, why not tell us what they were and what you want to see in series 7
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:32
AdelaideGirl
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There was some gibberish but it was mighty fine gibberish and anyway there always is some. I've always found Doctor Who works best when you only give it some thought but don't over analysis - when it starts to hurt your brain you just got to let go.


There was also the theme of father's and sons which I really thought was going to lead to a Rory pay off and I wonder if it still will. There is something special about him and it's got to be more than just his connection to Amy. I don't think he's totally human - 2000 years guarding the Pandorica which he remembers, has got to add up to something.
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:36
CD93
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Oh I'm so going to use that in future
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Old 20-04-2012, 10:44
sebbie3000
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There was some gibberish but it was mighty fine gibberish and anyway there always is some. I've always found Doctor Who works best when you only give it some thought but don't over analysis - when it starts to hurt your brain you just got to let go.


There was also the theme of father's and sons which I really thought was going to lead to a Rory pay off and I wonder if it still will. There is something special about him and it's got to be more than just his connection to Amy. I don't think he's totally human - 2000 years guarding the Pandorica which he remembers, has got to add up to something.
The fact that he's a time traveller now, and sees things differently perhaps? Which has been well established in the show and really doesn't need any other explanation...

Also, just as a little tidbit:
Spoiler
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Old 21-04-2012, 02:44
AdelaideGirl
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That happens to most of the Doctors Companions - I thought it was important that Melody's Dad was Rory - in the same way that it is that Amy is her Mum - that their DNA is a little changed.
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Old 21-04-2012, 21:44
sebbie3000
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That happens to most of the Doctors Companions - I thought it was important that Melody's Dad was Rory - in the same way that it is that Amy is her Mum - that their DNA is a little changed.
The in-show explanation us that it is the exposure to the time vortex that adapted Melody's DNA, in the same way that it had for Gallifreyans, turning them into Timelords. According to what we've seen, there was no need for the parents to be special. The fact that Melody was conceived while on board the TARDIS, whilst it was travelling through the time vortex was what was necessary.

Otherwise, the Silence could have waited for any progeny the Williams produced. It needed to be Melody because of where she was conceived.
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Old 21-04-2012, 21:49
nattoyaki
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...It needed to be Melody because of where she was conceived.
And how did they (The Silence) know that?
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