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EE: Was it always inevitable Ben would turn out the way he has?


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Old 25-04-2012, 17:49
Freeman000
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your post presumes i would, in anger, bash my partner over the head with a hard metal object. this is not something i would do in the first place. assault (premeditated or not) can result in permanent injury, disability, and death.


as i stated previously, i've chosen to "agree to disagree."
But a slap on the face can result in death. Even a push can. If you ever push someone and they fall over and die, you are guilty of the same crime as Ben. Sorry, but that's the truth.
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Old 25-04-2012, 17:50
missmelodya
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But a slap on the face can result in death. Even a push can. If you ever push someone and they fall over and die, you are guilty of the same crime as Ben. Sorry, but that's the truth.
i'm not going to come round to your way of thinking, and i don't expect you to come round to mine. i'm letting this go now - have a nice afternoon.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:00
Freeman000
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i'm not going to come round to your way of thinking, and i don't expect you to come round to mine. i'm letting this go now - have a nice afternoon.
Apology accepted.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:07
missmelodya
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lolol

for the record, although we don't see eye to eye on the topic of ben, i thought you might like to know i enjoy your posts in the political forum.

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Old 25-04-2012, 18:11
broadshoulder
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I

The main reason for my view, is one which has been discussed on here previously - the history the Mitchells, and the dominate males in the family. For generations Mitchell men have been violent, pyshcologically abusive, aggressive, and manipulative figures who use fear as the main source of ''respect''. This can be seen infamously, with Archie Mitchell of course, and towards the end of his time on the square, we found out that his farther had been abusive to him, so I premuse he was also abusive to his brother, Eric the father of Phil & Grant. Eric, as documented was violent towards Peggy, and Phil (though seemingly not Grant?). And now of course, we know that Phil has been violent towards Ben. So it seems like vicious cycle, within the Mitchell family that these undesirable traits of bullying, violence, manipulation are learned behaviour, with the cycle never breaking.
i agree the cycle and abuse does run through the Mitchell males and I agree that Ben turning out the way he is was ineveitable. Glad the writers had the foresight with this.

Archie was abused by his father, Grant and Phil by Eric, and now Ben with Phil. There is a pattern here.

What changed the game was Kathy dying.
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Old 25-04-2012, 22:26
VirginiaDem
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I hope he gets classed as mentally ill and is thus let off the hook, maybe after a few months as a phyc-hospital or something. The look on Shirley's face would be priceless!
Ben knew exactly what he was doing when he entered that flat. He may have psychiatric problems, but the mentally ill tack would have to prove that Ben didn't realise he was doing anything wrong. His psychiatric report stated that he was willing to do anything to get Phil's approval; but sometimes a psychiatric assessment made in one sitting isn't thorough - and we, the viewers, know that Ben was also out to prove that he could accomplish just as much, if not more, terror than Phil could, without a baseball bat.

You could argue that Chrissie Watts had no intention of killing Den when she lured him to the Vic that night, and I'm sure she didn't; but circumstances convened to prove otherwise, and her behaviour in the aftermath - burying the body - indicated that she murdered him. If Ben had followed through what Phil was originally going to do - call the police - then maybe the outcome might be different; but you don't conceal an "accidental" death. it looks too much like murder.

Besides, as John Yorke has said, when someone kills another person on the show, they either have to leave the Square or die. People argue that Stacey Slater got away with murder - and she did, in a sense, since she wasn't carted off to prison - but she had to leave the Square. There will be no way Ben will be allowed to just swan off to a psychiatric hospital for a few months and then return. Absolutely no way whatsoever, even if he is a Mitchell.
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:00
when0in0rome
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I'm rusty on my law but if you intend gbh isn't that enough to prosecute murder? He definitely intended gbh so im thinking it still counts as murder (I could have my facts screwed up but I do remember intending gbh being the same of murder in some way)
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:28
trevor tiger
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I'm rusty on my law but if you intend gbh isn't that enough to prosecute murder? He definitely intended gbh so im thinking it still counts as murder (I could have my facts screwed up but I do remember intending gbh being the same of murder in some way)
Not just rusty but lock jaw set in however I do think what's important in Ben's killing of Heather is his mental state. It is clearly an issue as it has been mentioned every other second by Phil, by Ben, by Jay and the officials who wanted an assessment so I'm pretty sure it's manslaughter of some kind.

Regarding Ben's current persona, mental health is an issue there too and he has certainly imo been driven to this state. Yes, he was a nice young boy who's mum and dad died in horrible circumstances and he was left to the devices of an unpleasant, immoral, criminal and aggressive man who beat Ben's mum and his own mum. A man who didn't understand him, didn't like him, didn't look after him properly. A man who expected women in his life to look after him, who exposed him to drug addiction and alcoholism, and violence and crime. A man, dad who now through guilt is facilitating Ben getting away with killing his girlfriend's best friend.

It was without a doubt inevitable Ben turned out this way. How could he not having Phil as his Dad?
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:34
monalisa62003
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I personally don't believe anyone is born evil. So for me, the whole nature v nurture thing is just pure stupidity as we are all a result of our surroundings, up-bringing, who we choose to befriend, society, culture, etc. etc.

I realise this is probably an unpopular opinion... but I don't believe anyone is evil. We all have the capability of doing evil things, Ben obviously is more capable than most, but to say Ben is 'evil' or anyone is evil, I believe, is really why crimes will probably always continue to happen. Instead of trying find the root or cause of people's behaviour, we just brand them as evil, lock them up for a few years and hope that somehow they'll be cured of their 'evil' behaviour. It's just idiotic.

Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent.

I don't think Ben becoming psychotic was inevitable necessarily, I do however think it was the most likely of a few outcomes.
there are no evil people ? as in soaps or real life? if soaps weren't johnny allen, jack dalton and archie mitchell all evil ?
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:46
big dan
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The very fact that Ben shows emotions such as fear and worry show that he is not a fully-fledged psychopath. If he was he wouldn't have shown any anxiety over his psychiatric report.
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Old 26-04-2012, 18:11
PrincessPerfect
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Harming animals and small children is one of the first telltale signs of sociopathic behaviour. And sociopaths are able to cover their tracks by rationalising reasons for their behaviour - Ben "didn't mean" to harm Freddie, it was Freddie who'd pulled his hearing aid while they were playing. They can also be very charming people too. We have never ever heard a backstory of what went on in South Africa. Ben could have had the kindest, most understanding mother in the world, but if he had sociopathic tendencies, that has nothing to do with nurturing.



I always found Grant "less bad" when he returned the last time. Their roles had been, effectively, reversed. In the 90s, Phil was the more cerebral brother, the peacemaker, the compromiser. He'd look to settle a situation with negotiation rather than a fight - that was all Grant. Phil's job was to temper Grant. Grant's temper, which resulted in him beating Eric, was honed in the Army, and what you saw afterwards was a prime example of PTSD.

When Sharon first slept with Phil, she told him it was like having the nice part of Grant. Grant's moods could change on a dime. He hit Sharon and subsequently hit Peggy - knocked her to the ground when he was married to Tiffany. Then Peggy told him he was just like Eric, and Grant did a flit, like he always did.

When Grant left, Phil assumed many of his characteristics. Grant got psychological help abroad, and when he returned, he was the way Phil used to be. This is why I say now that Phil is old Grant and Shirley is old Phil.



When they first arrived, Ronnie was a real control freak over Roxy, under the guise of "wanting to protect her." She treated Roxy like a ten year-old child. Roxy would make a mess, and Ronnie would clean up. Don't you remember when they arrived, Roxy had just broken up with her fiance' Damien? Ronnie engineered that, by lying to Roxy that Damien had wanted to sleep with her. When he followed her to Walford, Ronnie tore her clothing and messed herself up to make Roxy believe Damien had attacked her.

The first sign of rebellion came when Ronnie told Roxy to get an abortion. Ronnie was supposed to have the baby first, not Roxy. Roxy refused, and when she and Sean were making an effort to get together, Ronnie goaded Sean into smacking her in order to convince Ronnie that Sean was violent.



Stella abused Ben, but Ben's problems didn't start with Stella's abuse; and, really, Stella had the same emotional age as Ben. Remember their relationship started out from nothing, with Ben being vicious to her on the telephone when she was on her first date with Phil. What you had there in that storyline was an adult, with the emotional age of a child, abusing a real child.



Times like this, I wish Peggy were here.
Excellent analysis. I agree with all of this, totally.
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