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Madeleine:The Last Hope ? BBC1 25/4/12


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Old 28-04-2012, 12:18
chavet
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Oh right , TY I was unsure about Chaplins but now have some memory about the Millenium being mentioned too .
To be honest, I can't be sure he didn't mean Chaplin's, as there were so many different accounts of where they were and for how many nights that there could even be another one that I didn't see. It seems to be the case for everything in this - we talked for thirty seconds, we talked for thirty minutes, it was on the bed, it was on top of the shelf, you were watching that football game - it really makes your brain hurt after a while.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:20
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The McCanns are pretty universally disliked publically (bar a minority)
Could someone please answer to me why the media fawn over them and never mention the neglect which they obviously commited?

Are Carter-Ruck that powerful? Are they money over ethics?
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:21
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I find that hard to believe as well. If you were really getting up one at a time every 15 minutes, you may as well not have bothered sitting down together, as someone would always be missing...
They were in a reasonably large group of people. One of their number would be up to get some drinks, go to the loo, order more food, throughout the course of the time there that - and every - evening. It was tapas which is relaxed so they wouldn't all have been eating the same thing at the same time. I suspect they would have been too 'relaxed to care'.

I don't see why they didn't take it in turns to sit with the kids (IIRC others in their number had children too) for say 30 mins... Or take turns babysitting during the week as IIRC someone said they had booked that restaurant for the whole week. It would have taken rational sober ppl to make that kind of sensible decision. Just saying...

...she may have had sleeping tablets for a while...
At the time, wasn't there an inference that she was on medication at the time anyway. And she went out drinking

...if the McCanns were responsible for her death (if she's dead) or covered it up the truth would come out by now, and if they did it themselves they wouldnt want people looking in it. They couldnt keep up a charade, unless theyre theyre the worlds best actors.
Whose actions are they covering up? And their friends? We should hope that at some point the full truth will out.

BIB Maybe in total denial. Has been mention in a CSI ep that you can be in such a state of denial that you would pass a lie detector test because you are answering questions on your 'view of the universe'...

The McCanns will be appearing on Lorraine on ITV1 next Wednesday at 8.30 am when no doubt they will be subjected to the usual tough questioning we associate with this programme.
Sorry ftv. I think you missed something out here...let me help...



...manhandling the weeks old corpse of a child (their child) around...its simply not viable.
If they manhandled a corpse *shudder* that old in a warm climate... as has been said above IIRC in relation to the McGs driving around with a corpse in the car ... Have you ever smelled a corpse? I have... It would abs reek. Very distinctive smell. That smell would transfer to themselves... and also thanks to CSI... it is a very difficult smell to get rid of...

When a mistake is made and a child ends up in danger because of it then it must be a police matter and there must be punishment by the law of the country where the incident hppened, neglect that leads to harming of a child carries a sentence of 5 years or so I believe in Portugal.

This is a child that is missing only because of the parents mistake, they have to feel the force of the law surely?
In the US, they have Reckless Endangerment... Someone doesn't even have to die but you have to be involved some unsafe practice. Often quoted in US cop shows... and often applied to parents leaving kids, teenagers carrying out pranks etc, This will be invoked when there was never intention to harm someone (manslaughter/murder)... but harm befell them anyway.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:33
maureens
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The McCanns are pretty universally disliked publically (bar a minority)
Could someone please answer to me why the media fawn over them and never mention the neglect which they obviously commited?

Are Carter-Ruck that powerful? Are they money over ethics?
Carter -Ruck are very powerful they are a force mainly used by celebrities and high profile people. makes you think how they can afford them doesnt it?, oh maybe the fund people donated to helps just a thought....
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:35
Honestweegie
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Everybody I know, myself included donated to the fund which is a good sign as much as the Mccanns are disliked, the one thing is certauin, everybody wants Maddie found
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:35
Abbasolutely 40
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Were all the other apartments searched that night ? I dont think I have ever heard if the PJ searched all the groups apartments from top to toe and inside out . ??

I am of the opinion that the the whole sad tale has taken on a soap opera like quality and its seems to alienate the Mc Canns more and more . They are now almost like celebrities and people really see no real remorse or guilt and I think this irks many .They seem to take no ownership of the part they played in this sad story

If they have so much energy to lead this campaign then they might be better to put it into a campaign to alert parents to the dangers and the danger of leaving kids and into better parenting skills .
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:36
maureens
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Everybody I know, myself included donated to the fund which is a good sign as much as the Mccanns are disliked, the one thing is certauin, everybody wants Maddie found
I agree about wanting Maddie found definately, sadly i dont think she ever will be though
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:39
Liz G-S
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Most money was donated in the weeks after the disappearance - I am not sure many would donate now, especially when they see how the money was used or rather wasted on things like unnecessary court cases to silence critics or on incompetent PIs and even on a couple of mortgage payments
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:43
johartuk
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I think the biggest argument that the Mccanns are guilty of nothing more than neglect, (which is bad enough actually), is the fact that they keep wanting the case investigated. Surely if they do know what happened to Madeleine they don't want police snooping around trying to find out the truth.Yet it is they who are keeping up the search.

You would think they would keep quiet and breath a sigh of relief that the various police and investigators haven't unearthed any conclusive evidence against them.

I suppose some would say that this is some sort of double bluff, but I can't see how they could keep it up so long.

It is a strange and disturbing case, Kate and Gerry always appeared atypical of distraught parents on the event of their child going missing, their holiday arrangements did seem odd, especially the dining arrangements. It appeared that they didn't want a holiday with their children, they wanted one with their friends, so the children were despatched to creche's and to bed as soon as possible so they could enjoy an adult style of holiday. Whilst this seems strange to some, it doesn't make them guilty of hiding any dark secrets.

I would so love there to be closure and for the truth to be discovered. Unfortunately, if the McCann's are right, and she was taken from her bed by a stranger, then the chances of her being brought up well and in happy circumstances by other 'parents' somewhere must be more or less nil. There must be easier ways to take a child, and easier children to take. Taking a child of english holiday makers is bound to get huge publicity and be far too dangerous.
I suspect it's more a case of once you tell a lie, you have to keep going. Especially when a Fund has been set up to finance the search for the child. If evidence did ever emerge that 100% proved the Portugese Police theory, then that Fund would have been set up (and funds raised) under false pretences. Plus there's the book and various law suits/damages awarded, not to mention the 2million of tax payers' money that's been spent so far on the Scotland Yard review of the case.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:50
Dan Fortesque
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When a mistake is made and a child ends up in danger because of it then it must be a police matter and there must be punishment by the law of the country where the incident hppened, neglect that leads to harming of a child carries a sentence of 5 years or so I believe in Portugal.

This is a child that is missing only because of the parents mistake, they have to feel the force of the law surely?
I think the Portuguese charge would have been abandonment, but I thought it had to be proven that the parents intended to neglect the child. Which I don't think was the case here. Neglect laws aren't usually that black and white.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:51
Goldbear86
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They were in a reasonably large group of people. One of their number would be up to get some drinks, go to the loo, order more food, throughout the course of the time there that - and every - evening. It was tapas which is relaxed so they wouldn't all have been eating the same thing at the same time. I suspect they would have been too 'relaxed to care'.

I don't see why they didn't take it in turns to sit with the kids (IIRC others in their number had children too) for say 30 mins... Or take turns babysitting during the week as IIRC someone said they had booked that restaurant for the whole week. It would have taken rational sober ppl to make that kind of sensible decision. Just saying...



If they manhandled a corpse *shudder* that old in a warm climate... as has been said above IIRC in relation to the McGs driving around with a corpse in the car ... Have you ever smelled a corpse? I have... It would abs reek. Very distinctive smell. That smell would transfer to themselves... and also thanks to CSI... it is a very difficult smell to get rid of...



.
Didn't one of the dogs detect that scent on Kates clothing? I only remember the article as apparently she explained it due to her job as a GP that she would be exposed to the smell.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:55
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Cant believe people are still talking about this.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:59
SydneyHedgehog
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Cant believe people are still talking about this.
Must admit, we all know shes dead ...... we all know her parents are idiots ....... lets move on.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:00
aggs
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responsible parents, responsible people, make mistakes every day. happily, most of them don't result in disastrous outcomes. but i don't imagine any of us are immune from doing something (perhaps different but) equally potentially disastrous.
And if it does, then you have to accept the responsibility of your own actions.

The fact that some one was 'badder' than you doesn't absolve you of your initial disasterous freely made choice.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:00
jules1000
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Cant believe people are still talking about this.
Perhaps because there has been no conclusion, no retribution.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:10
Abbasolutely 40
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Cant believe people are still talking about this.
The media keep it fresh and there has just been a Panorama prgramme on it , the Mc Canns are on This Morning next week , the front pages showed a Madeleine photo fit photo as she may look now etc etc .Is it any wonder people still discuss it then ?
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:12
aggs
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Perhaps because there has been no conclusion, no retribution.
And because every apparent solution throws up more questions than it answers.

You only have to read up there ^^^^ to see people saying 'x couldn't have happened because of y' - but the only thing that can really be said for sure in this case is that Madeleine clearly isn't where she is supposed to be.

So, something obviously happened to her and if or hopefully when that something is known there will more than likely be one or 2 parts of the story that will be 'wow' would never have thought that could actually have been it'
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:14
aggs
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Didn't one of the dogs detect that scent on Kates clothing? I only remember the article as apparently she explained it due to her job as a GP that she would be exposed to the smell.
Yes, apparently as a part time GP she attended/pronounced 8 or so deaths - all while wearing the clothes she goes on holiday in.

(Sometimes, trying to explain something away doesn't really help. I suppose if it was actually the truth of it, it would be one of my woah moments)
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:36
jsmith99
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[quote=bel110;57907476]

I find it incomprehensible how any parents can leave children alone either at home or in a strange place .......... Sure it was something that happened 30 years ago but it simply isn't safe to leave small children on their own anymore for a number of reasons.............
What's happened in the last 30 years to make it unsafe? It's as safe....or unsafe...to leave children alone now as it was 30 years ago. Only the amount of publicity and scaremongering has changed.

Must admit, we all know shes dead ...... we all know her parents are idiots ....... lets move on.
Maybe you'd care to share the source of this knowledge with us?

As a famous newspaper editor (possibly) once said : Opinion is free; facts are sacred.

Which really should be the motto of DS.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:40
2shy2007
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Didn't one of the dogs detect that scent on Kates clothing? I only remember the article as apparently she explained it due to her job as a GP that she would be exposed to the smell.
Her clothing, cuddle cat, a cupboard as well in the apartment too I think, or was that blood?cant remember now which dog it was.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:53
Abbasolutely 40
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Yes, apparently as a part time GP she attended/pronounced 8 or so deaths - all while wearing the clothes she goes on holiday in.

(Sometimes, trying to explain something away doesn't really help. I suppose if it was actually the truth of it, it would be one of my woah moments)
If my memory serves me well I think she took cuddle cat to work occasionally too .
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:55
Zimmie
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The Portugese Police have a view, the British investigators and the McCann people behind them seem to want the Portugese Police to run round Europe and Africa after every Cod sighting,i agree with Portugese Police no new opening of case unless a real breakthrough is made.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:57
scotch
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If my memory serves me well I think she took cuddle cat to work occasionally too .
Yes, I remember that!
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Old 28-04-2012, 14:11
johartuk
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thats a bit mad though isn't it.

how could this possibly be accomplished? and why?

manhandling the weeks old corpse of a child (their child) around, cool as a cucumber, with up to several accomplices including the church, whilst never being out of the gaze of the media for long, and then maintaining an enormous lie for weeks, months, years, with no-one ever finding out the truth?

its simply not viable.
They had 24/7 access to the church for several weeks, as the priest gave them a key. This was well-known as it was mentioned in the media. Therefore they could come and go as they pleased without arousing suspicion, since no-one would think it was odd seeing them entering or leaving the church, even if it was late at night or in the early hours of the morning. With all that in mind, it doesn't seem quite so far fetched an idea that Madeleine's body could have been concealed there at some point.
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Old 28-04-2012, 14:54
SuperSal1
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I think this is very important:

They had 24/7 access to the church for several weeks, as the priest gave them a key. This was well-known as it was mentioned in the media. Therefore they could come and go as they pleased without arousing suspicion, since no-one would think it was odd seeing them entering or leaving the church, even if it was late at night or in the early hours of the morning. With all that in mind, it doesn't seem quite so far fetched an idea that Madeleine's body could have been concealed there at some point.
Plus the fact that Kate was desperate to speak to a Catholic priest during the early hours. Who would think of phoning a priest when your daughter could have just wandered off or was snuggled up in a neighbours flat?

What was a priest in England going to do to aid the search?

And Kate's Mum didn't even think she was very religious...
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