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Refused permision to take child on holiday during term time!


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Old 28-04-2012, 09:23
Blondie X
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OP. Is there anyone in your work who would write a letter saying that you can't take time off in the main school holidays for whatever reason? Most schools will accept that as a valid reason
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:27
Croctacus
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OP. Is there anyone in your work who would write a letter saying that you can't take time off in the main school holidays for whatever reason? Most schools will accept that as a valid reason
I know sone places you get allocated holiday weeks. What are you supposed to do if you get given June? Not everyone is able to take holiday in school holiday time. They shouldn't be further penalised by not being able to book a family holiday.
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Old 28-04-2012, 09:36
supertrampers
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I also had trouble with this I got married last week and asked my daughters secondary school for two days holiday and it was refused - got a standard letter and went to speak to the man in charge - he told me that it wouldn't be considered under any circumstances. Offered to compromise on the day of wedding authorised and the day after as not and he refused point blank. Both my girls had 100% attendance at this point. Yet my sons primary school authorised both days as deemed it special circumstances. It just takes the biscuit.
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:25
swnymor1963
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Looks like some FM have`t read the post about this new hard line stance being Government policy...rather than stubborn Head Teachers just saying no.....It`s another case of those in power being totally detached from the lives and circumstances of the average family.....The OP made a reasonable request...and I`am sure the Head teacher would love to give a reasonable answer....but it appears their hands are now tied.

I work in the NHS.....or should that be National Health service for targets....because every aspect of my job now seems to revolve around achieving targets to maintain/secure funding...rather than ensuring the highest possible care to those I treat......Politicians love targets....it`s what gives them ammunition when their sat in front of Jeremy Paxman.....ie...More patients are now seen...waiting lists down(fook the quality of care)....less truancy...more GCSE(taught to pass an examine...rather than understand a particular subject).....With no regard to the standard of care or education
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:27
BinCat
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Just lie, tell them you've changed your mind about the holiday, then ring the school and say she's ill.

They'll probably know you're fibbing, but they'll mark her down as absent due to illness and their unauthorised absence figures won't go up.
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:35
goldielox
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In many schools I visit whole walls in reception are taken up with posters and statistics about attendance. This focus on attendance stats is another reason why schools close in bad weather - if the school doesn't close and some kids don't make it in then it affects their attendance stats. If the school closes its not classed as an unauthorisd absence...so they clos instead.

I've noticed posters too asking parents where possible to try to take kids for routine and non urgent medical appointments in holiday time etc and not during school hours. If that's frowned upon then getting a few days off is even more of an issue.
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:38
DoctorQui
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I know sone places you get allocated holiday weeks. What are you supposed to do if you get given June? Not everyone is able to take holiday in school holiday time. They shouldn't be further penalised by not being able to book a family holiday.
The Royal Mail is notorious for this. When I worked for them many moons ago, They didn't allow floating leave and you had to choose your leave months in advance. It was based on seniority (length of service) and first come first served. When I was there, I never qualified for June-September leave, luckily I wasn't a father then but if they still do this today and there are fathers without enough seniority, then what!

I even got refused annual leave to get married because I didn't qualify. I was told that I should have waited to see what my leave was before booking anything I had to rearrange my wedding for October!
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:58
skunkboy69
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Reading here its says parents do not have an automatic right to take their children out of school for holidays.
I argued this with my kids school year after year and it turns out that I DO have that right.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:02
shmisk
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In many schools I visit whole walls in reception are taken up with posters and statistics about attendance. This focus on attendance stats is another reason why schools close in bad weather - if the school doesn't close and some kids don't make it in then it affects their attendance stats. If the school closes its not classed as an unauthorisd absence...so they clos instead.

I've noticed posters too asking parents where possible to try to take kids for routine and non urgent medical appointments in holiday time etc and not during school hours. If that's frowned upon then getting a few days off is even more of an issue.
my sons school has statistics up - also if a class has 100 per cent attendance for a month they get a trip to the cinema!

I was told though that for medical appointments its different - my son has a fair few and they class it in a different level, is what the head said to me.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:09
Blondie X
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I know sone places you get allocated holiday weeks. What are you supposed to do if you get given June? Not everyone is able to take holiday in school holiday time. They shouldn't be further penalised by not being able to book a family holiday.
I've written letters for people who can't take their holidays in the main 6 weeks due to there being too many people already off, special projects going on or other reasons explaining why people are having to take time off in term time and most schools seem to accept this.

I think that the schools are just following what they've been told to do and, as long as they have back up to show why they've authorsied holiday, like a work letter, then it's ok.
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Old 28-04-2012, 11:39
Dave 909
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Again thanks for the replies. My, well our issues are that a lot of our income is via benefits thus genuinly can never afford to take any holiday due to costs during school holidays. In fact only by having a level of birthday presents etc in the way of money are we even able to afford to go on a family holiday in the first place for the best part, in other words family have payed a good chunk of holiday cost as a gift. Btw, was never an issue when we were kids getting the free social holidays during school term time and they were date set from the LA

I can fully understand some of the schools position, yet cant accept a child in an above target attendance record being a problem in taking authorised leave for a holiday for a single week, 2 weeks yes but not a single week. As said the decision seems to be based on general attitudes and targets of attendance of the school as a whole. We are being refused in my eyes because some or many families dont have a strict attitude to there childrens attendance and or take the mick by taking 2 or 3 weeks off for family hollidays during term time. Thus the burden of upping the schools attendance is more reliant on good atendee children than they will ever get from children from broken families or bad parenting families.

My main point is when we chose the daughters school 1 of the main issues was checking the term time holiday position which was fine at the time. And that good attendance children should not be refused to compensate for bad attendance children just so the schools can meet attendance targets, thats just plain wrong. We are not asking for 2 weeks in Spain in term time that could therefor be an affordable 1 week Sapin holiday in school holiday, we are asking for just 1 week in term time to have a UK holiday that would be no holiday due to cost where we looking at school holidays.

I'm with the schhols to a certain point, but a 1 week holiday during term time should not be a problem and not be a part of a schools attendance record if authorised and only a single week.

Another solution is for most schools to stagger the school holidays so it invalidates the upto double price issue for holidays during school holidays by making school holidays dates invalid for holiday firms by staggering then for different schools.

We took a late holiday last year, early october as the price was cheap and shared the cost with others, went to Scotland, rained for most of the trip. But there it was half term in Scotland and the camp was packed solid with Scotish families (3 times the amount than English families) as they got very cheap holidays there even though it was Scotish half term!.

If the government want to really deal with the issue prehaps dealing with the fake excuse the tourist industry throws out for upping the costs might be a start!.

But we will be writing a polite reply to the school as said detailing our position and pointing out our daughter age and attendance and while asking again will also be politely telling them that the letter can otherwise be taken as a notice of taking our daughter on holiday outlining the educational value of the holiday and the educational issues we will have our daughter dealing with while on holiday than sitting round a pool or in an arcade all day solid.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:06
c4rv
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Again thanks for the replies. My, well our issues are that a lot of our income is via benefits thus genuinly can never afford to take any holiday due to costs during school holidays.
I don't get what you are saying here, are you saying that if you work and don't live off benefit that you should extra for holidays ? and that if you are benefits that you are entitled to cheap holidays.

And what is your long term plan, keep taking your kids out of school ?

I can fully understand some of the schools position, yet cant accept a child in an above target attendance record being a problem in taking authorised leave for a holiday for a single week, 2 weeks yes but not a single week.
Add on time when they will be off sick and it adds up.

As said the decision seems to be based on general attitudes and targets of attendance of the school as a whole.
As mentioned many time, its government & OFSTED policy.

I'm with the schhols to a certain point, but a 1 week holiday during term time should not be a problem and not be a part of a schools attendance record if authorised and only a single week.
It all counts towards the stats. It one of the reasons why schools so easily declare snow days. They don't count towards attendance. Yet if a school stays open and 1/2 the pupils don't turn up then that counts against the school.

Another solution is for most schools to stagger the school holidays so it invalidates the upto double price issue for holidays during school holidays by making school holidays dates invalid for holiday firms by staggering then for different schools.
so what happens when you if you have kids at different schools (it happens to my cousin). What if you want to meet up with friends family ? How about the extra cost to the LA to keep support services running longer.

And you know the holiday companies will just charge more for longer.

We took a late holiday last year, early october as the price was cheap and shared the cost with others, went to Scotland, rained for most of the trip. But there it was half term in Scotland and the camp was packed solid with Scotish families (3 times the amount than English families) as they got very cheap holidays there even though it was Scotish half term!.
Sorry I am going to call BS to that. I can't see how Scottish families are going to get the holiday any cheaper. They book from via the same agents that you book from in England and Wales.

If the government want to really deal with the issue prehaps dealing with the fake excuse the tourist industry throws out for upping the costs might be a start!.
Supply and demand determines market prices though I agree that prices shouldn't go up how to regulate it fairly.

But we will be writing a polite reply to the school as said detailing our position and pointing out our daughter age and attendance and while asking again will also be politely telling them that the letter can otherwise be taken as a notice of taking our daughter on holiday outlining the educational value of the holiday and the educational issues we will have our daughter dealing with while on holiday than sitting round a pool or in an arcade all day solid.
You need to be writing to the LA, OFSTED, the school and your MP
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:08
goldielox
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Dare I suggest you consider taking a holiday every other year instead? That then presumably would cover the cost of a holiday during peak school holiday times.

Even if you're granted a week in term time one time, I think any school would get shirty if its then one week every year.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:12
grps3
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its your kid you dont need permission

call school and say child wont be in for personal reasons then say bye .
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:17
susie-4964
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its your kid you dont need permission

call school and say child wont be in for personal reasons then say bye .
Why bother sending the child to school at all? Clearly they don't learn much.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:17
soulboy77
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I think the issue is asking permission.

If you ASK the answer may well be "no", however if you simply inform the school there shouldn't be an issue. You are just telling them rather than asking them to make a decision.

"my child will not be in school for the next week...."

as opposed to "do you give consent for my child to be absent for the next week"

I work in Education (although not as a teacher, I'm in an admin role albeit at a fairly high level) and thats always been how it was presented to me, that could be region specific advice but its worth a try.
Yes, could never understand this 'consent' thing with schools. We simply tell them that our daughter will not be in on x days. If they don't like it that's their problem.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:19
c4rv
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Yes, could never understand this 'consent' thing with schools. We simply tell them that our daughter will not be in on x days. If they don't like it that's their problem.
will be your problem when you start getting fined then your child is excluded, of course social services will involved at that point.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:21
susie-4964
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Yes, could never understand this 'consent' thing with schools. We simply tell them that our daughter will not be in on x days. If they don't like it that's their problem.
Totally agree, stuff them. Schools these days are rubbish, kids learn nothing, so a few days off won't do them any harm at all. I despise the arrogance of these teachers who complain about kids not being in school, who the heck do they think they are? People should be able to do exactly what they want with their time and THEIR children, shouldn't they?
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:26
shmisk
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:30
2shy2007
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My children have never had a holiday and we will be taking both out of their different schools at the start of July, I will not ask for permission, I will tell the school that they are having the week off. We need to be on holiday when it is quiet as they are both autistic, so the schools will just have to understand.
They are perfect attenders, never have a day off, rarely for illness, and havent had a day in term time for years.
They are both so excited, it just a UK holiday, but its OUR holiday, when we need to go.
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Old 28-04-2012, 12:32
Ajax.
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I don't have children, but if I did, then holidaying during school holidays would be something I'd accept as a downside.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:06
Evo102
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Totally agree, stuff them. Schools these days are rubbish, kids learn nothing, so a few days off won't do them any harm at all. I despise the arrogance of these teachers who complain about kids not being in school, who the heck do they think they are? People should be able to do exactly what they want with their time and THEIR children, shouldn't they?
Well said. The OP's child is only 4 so it is hardly going to impact on their learning.
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Old 28-04-2012, 13:09
bryemycaz
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My daughters schools hot on attendance too. we often get newsletters mentioning attendance. My daughter has great attendance. Though she was off school a few times last year with tummy bugs. When she had this the school insist on keeping children off for 48 hours.

What annoys me is that we get these snooty letters mentioning attendance in the winter months when its more than lilkley that children are off because they are ill.

One of my freinds daughters 2 years ago had a very bad cold and she has athsma and ended up on a ventilator. Then when she recovered and went back to school, when she next got ill her mum would keep her off for a day as she went downhill so fast the first time. The school then wanted a meeting with her as they were "concerend" that she was taking her girl out of school.
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Old 28-04-2012, 14:23
Jillie Bean
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As someone has already stated, this is policy, not law. Here in Wales, the WA has of course the same policy, yet it is up to the individual borough to implement the policy.

Our borough has decided to do so and back last year, all parents received a very patronising and condescending letter from the council's head of education. This sparked many strong feelings, and I have since been debating this with my council in whatever form I can.

The simple fact is that this policy is denying many children of poorer families, the chance to ever have a family holiday whilst of school-attending age. It is indeed a policy, completely out of touch with reality. Yes there are irresponsible parents out there, for example I would never take a child out of school in important exam years, but as with many things, the responsible majority are being punished for the irresponsible few.
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Old 28-04-2012, 14:40
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