[wonkeydonkey]

Originally Posted by jesaya

http://www.c4em.org.uk/support-for-equal-marriage/

It will help us with campaigning

My MP is a no then.

I wonder if Ian Paisley jnr bellows about sodomites going to hell like his dad did?

[Lizzy11268]

Sigh. More stoooopid people. Is the world populated with them or what?

[21stCenturyBoy]

Knuckle dragging moron who probably thinks the Wheel is a mod-con.

I can't believe we have people like him as an MP- and it's totally wrong he's using his own religious beliefs as a reason for voting against. Can't we take more of a secularist approach to this issue?

[21stCenturyBoy]

My MP is voting for Gay Marriage- a redeeming quality, considering he votes for a raise in tuition fees!

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy

Knuckle dragging moron who probably thinks the Wheel is a mod-con.

I can't believe we have people like him as an MP- and it's totally wrong he's using his own religious beliefs as a reason for voting against. Can't we take more of a secularist approach to this issue?

Unless you have programmed robots sitting in Westminster within the main parties, emotions will always play a part in voting I am afraid.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by wonkeydonkey

My MP is a no then.

I wonder if Ian Paisley jnr bellows about sodomites going to hell like his dad did?

I suspect so!

Mine (David Davies) is opposing it because of the 'Christian B&B Case' - apparently this will mean that churches will be forced to hold same sex marriages (even though, on his website, he shows the letters he has received from the government assuring him that churches (etc) will be excluded from any change).

[pickwick]

My MP's a yes - yay! My MSP hasn't pledged, though, might have to harass her about that.

[21stCenturyBoy]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

Unless you have programmed robots sitting in Westminster within the main parties, emotions will always play a part in voting I am afraid.

But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.

[pickwick]

Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy

But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.

Especially because the law is going to apply to people who don't follow their religion, and "because I said so" is rarely a convincing argument against things!

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by 21stCenturyBoy

But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.

It is, but as we are not particularily "religious" we would do.

I think any major decisions like this should go to public vote (and as the constant arguments form both sides prove, it is a major decision to all). Let the people decide. They did it over local mayors. Let the make up of society decide what is acceptable to them, not a handful of people with limited experience.

[jackbell]

Sadly, I think if it went to the majority vote gay people would not be 'allowed' to have children, 'allowed' be married in a church or have many equal opportunities.

Adopt children, getting married in church - these decisions should be down to the individuals concerned an no-one else.

Equal opportunities means exactly that. It doesn't mean some people are more equal than others. If you're against gay people getting married in Church or having children you do not believe in equality for all.

[Chester666666]

I don't see the point of a vote on LBG equality
It should be there without any vote or stuff

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by jackbell

Sadly, I think if it went to the majority vote gay people would not be 'allowed' to have children, 'allowed' be married in a church or have many equal opportunities.

Adopt children, getting married in church - these decisions should be down to the individuals concerned an no-one else.

Equal opportunities means exactly that. It doesn't mean some people are more equal than others. If you're against gay people getting married in Church or having children you do not believe in equality for all.

Do you think?

I honestly think you might be suprised. There are millions of people out there, quietly getting on with life, who by their quiteness are happy to allow others to do the same. At the moment we are bombarded with loud cries from a few at total opposite ends of the spectrum. I honestly think you might be suprised.

Was there uproar when civil partnerships were introduced? I do not remember any? I honestly do not think most people give a crap.

[emby]

My MP doesn't seem to have made a decision yet ... must get onto him about that.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

It is, but as we are not particularily "religious" we would do.

I think any major decisions like this should go to public vote (and as the constant arguments form both sides prove, it is a major decision to all). Let the people decide. They did it over local mayors. Let the make up of society decide what is acceptable to them, not a handful of people with limited experience.

I personally don't think we should ever hold a public vote on equality issues. If we had voted on 'minority rights' then this would have delayed many of the changes in the UK that most people now agree with - at the time things like the Race Relations Act were not well supported by many people.

We elect representatives precisely because 'mob rule' is not a good way to decide on many issues, as evidenced in California, who use referendums a great deal and managed to vote for reduced taxes and increased government spending on the same ballot paper.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

Do you think?

I honestly think you might be suprised. There are millions of people out there, quietly getting on with life, who by their quiteness are happy to allow others to do the same. At the moment we are bombarded with loud cries from a few at total opposite ends of the spectrum. I honestly think you might be suprised.

Was there uproar when civil partnerships were introduced? I do not remember any? I honestly do not think most people give a crap.

Actually there was - I remember wondering if we would get the legislation through at one point.

[stoatie]

Originally Posted by Chester666666

I don't see the point of a vote on LBG equality
It should be there without any vote or stuff

This is one thing I agree with Kapellmeister on, actually- it does rather smack of having to ask straight people if it's OK, which is a bit shit, really.

Sadly, given that it's largely straight people who are responsible for the existing inequality, it does have to happen, one way or another. If you're wrongfully imprisoned, you can't just walk out without SOMEONE being convinced you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So yeah, it's a bit shit, but that's just one more piece of the whole situation being a bit shit.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

Actually there was - I remember wondering if we would get the legislation through at one point.

Was it just the same people that are creating a stink now though, the loud minority?

Those that shout the loudest get heard. The vast majority are quiet and probably not giving a crap but the usual suspects are out in force trying to represent a nation with their overly vocal opinions.

This is why I do not like politics. A few people with totally contrasting views to me, get to dictate how my life is lived.

[rockerchick]

What does it matter to MP's how people live their lives??

[kimindex]

Someone should email him (and other MPs) this thread and threads like it. It's not proof or anything of a country-wide consensus but it may show that there are quite a few people who don't agree with the Carey mob, including many religious people.

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

Was it just the same people that are creating a stink now though, the loud minority?

Those that shout the loudest get heard. The vast majority are quiet and probably not giving a crap but the usual suspects are out in force trying to represent a nation with their overly vocal opinions.

This is why I do not like politics. A few people with totally contrasting views to me, get to dictate how my life is lived.

Yes it was the same people, the same papers, the same churches etc.

Asking permission from the majority to be treated equally to everyone else makes me feel very uncomfortable however. I don't think I should have to do that.

[Chester666666]

Originally Posted by stoatie

This is one thing I agree with Kapellmeister on, actually- it does rather smack of having to ask straight people if it's OK, which is a bit shit, really.

Sadly, given that it's largely straight people who are responsible for the existing inequality, it does have to happen, one way or another. If you're wrongfully imprisoned, you can't just walk out without SOMEONE being convinced you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So yeah, it's a bit shit, but that's just one more piece of the whole situation being a bit shit.

Or it could be done without asking as it is the right thing to do, it's more then a bit shitty that there needs to be some asking to get equality

[jesaya]

Originally Posted by kimindex

Someone should email him (and other MPs) this thread and threads like it. It's not proof or anything of a country-wide consensus but it may show that there are quite a few people who don't agree with the Carey mob, including many religious people.

Do you think they actually care what other people's views are? Reading his words I think it will take more than the opinions of some ordinary people to overcome what is clearly a deeply held prejudice.

What amuses me about some of these MPs is how they say 'I support Civil Partnerships for gay couples' yet actually voted against them when that legislation was proposed.

[kimindex]

Originally Posted by jesaya

Do you think they actually care what other people's views are? Reading his words I think it will take more than the opinions of some ordinary people to overcome what is clearly a deeply held prejudice.

What amuses me about some of these MPs is how they say 'I support Civil Partnerships for gay couples' yet actually voted against them when that legislation was proposed.

Yes, but I guess they're subject, some of them, to thinking in populist terms and, if they think equal marriage has more support than they thought, they might think about it, at least.

I just think that some of them are given traditionalist, little c conservative messages from activists in their community and from establishment figures like Carey, and think that reflects what the popular view is.

But, yes, I doubt they'd bother reading such views, most of them.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by jesaya

Yes it was the same people, the same papers, the same churches etc.

Asking permission from the majority to be treated equally to everyone else makes me feel very uncomfortable however. I don't think I should have to do that.

Whilst I agree in priniciple, is that not how our system works? I mean laws get passed by being voted for or against, you can not just choose that system for certain things and not others.

It is a shame marriage has a legal aspect at all and that it is written in law. If marriage is about declaring and sharing your love, why do we need a law to do that?