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MP 'gay couples shouldn't marry because they can't 'procreate and raise a child'


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Old 18-05-2012, 10:06
wonkeydonkey
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My MP is a no then.

I wonder if Ian Paisley jnr bellows about sodomites going to hell like his dad did?
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:09
Lizzy11268
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Sigh. More stoooopid people. Is the world populated with them or what?
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:11
21stCenturyBoy
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Knuckle dragging moron who probably thinks the Wheel is a mod-con.

I can't believe we have people like him as an MP- and it's totally wrong he's using his own religious beliefs as a reason for voting against. Can't we take more of a secularist approach to this issue?
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:12
21stCenturyBoy
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My MP is voting for Gay Marriage- a redeeming quality, considering he votes for a raise in tuition fees!
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:12
ladymoanalot
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Knuckle dragging moron who probably thinks the Wheel is a mod-con.

I can't believe we have people like him as an MP- and it's totally wrong he's using his own religious beliefs as a reason for voting against. Can't we take more of a secularist approach to this issue?
Unless you have programmed robots sitting in Westminster within the main parties, emotions will always play a part in voting I am afraid.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:14
jesaya
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My MP is a no then.

I wonder if Ian Paisley jnr bellows about sodomites going to hell like his dad did?
I suspect so!

Mine (David Davies) is opposing it because of the 'Christian B&B Case' - apparently this will mean that churches will be forced to hold same sex marriages (even though, on his website, he shows the letters he has received from the government assuring him that churches (etc) will be excluded from any change).
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:15
pickwick
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My MP's a yes - yay! My MSP hasn't pledged, though, might have to harass her about that.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:15
21stCenturyBoy
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Unless you have programmed robots sitting in Westminster within the main parties, emotions will always play a part in voting I am afraid.
But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:18
pickwick
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But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.
Especially because the law is going to apply to people who don't follow their religion, and "because I said so" is rarely a convincing argument against things!
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:19
ladymoanalot
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But to use religion as a reason?

I just think that's too subjective.
It is, but as we are not particularily "religious" we would do.

I think any major decisions like this should go to public vote (and as the constant arguments form both sides prove, it is a major decision to all). Let the people decide. They did it over local mayors. Let the make up of society decide what is acceptable to them, not a handful of people with limited experience.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:26
jackbell
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Sadly, I think if it went to the majority vote gay people would not be 'allowed' to have children, 'allowed' be married in a church or have many equal opportunities.

Adopt children, getting married in church - these decisions should be down to the individuals concerned an no-one else.

Equal opportunities means exactly that. It doesn't mean some people are more equal than others. If you're against gay people getting married in Church or having children you do not believe in equality for all.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:29
Chester666666
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I don't see the point of a vote on LBG equality
It should be there without any vote or stuff
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:33
ladymoanalot
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Sadly, I think if it went to the majority vote gay people would not be 'allowed' to have children, 'allowed' be married in a church or have many equal opportunities.

Adopt children, getting married in church - these decisions should be down to the individuals concerned an no-one else.

Equal opportunities means exactly that. It doesn't mean some people are more equal than others. If you're against gay people getting married in Church or having children you do not believe in equality for all.
Do you think?

I honestly think you might be suprised. There are millions of people out there, quietly getting on with life, who by their quiteness are happy to allow others to do the same. At the moment we are bombarded with loud cries from a few at total opposite ends of the spectrum. I honestly think you might be suprised.

Was there uproar when civil partnerships were introduced? I do not remember any? I honestly do not think most people give a crap.
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Old 18-05-2012, 10:43
emby
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My MP doesn't seem to have made a decision yet ... must get onto him about that.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:00
jesaya
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It is, but as we are not particularily "religious" we would do.

I think any major decisions like this should go to public vote (and as the constant arguments form both sides prove, it is a major decision to all). Let the people decide. They did it over local mayors. Let the make up of society decide what is acceptable to them, not a handful of people with limited experience.
I personally don't think we should ever hold a public vote on equality issues. If we had voted on 'minority rights' then this would have delayed many of the changes in the UK that most people now agree with - at the time things like the Race Relations Act were not well supported by many people.

We elect representatives precisely because 'mob rule' is not a good way to decide on many issues, as evidenced in California, who use referendums a great deal and managed to vote for reduced taxes and increased government spending on the same ballot paper.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:01
jesaya
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Do you think?

I honestly think you might be suprised. There are millions of people out there, quietly getting on with life, who by their quiteness are happy to allow others to do the same. At the moment we are bombarded with loud cries from a few at total opposite ends of the spectrum. I honestly think you might be suprised.

Was there uproar when civil partnerships were introduced? I do not remember any? I honestly do not think most people give a crap.
Actually there was - I remember wondering if we would get the legislation through at one point.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:10
stoatie
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I don't see the point of a vote on LBG equality
It should be there without any vote or stuff
This is one thing I agree with Kapellmeister on, actually- it does rather smack of having to ask straight people if it's OK, which is a bit shit, really.

Sadly, given that it's largely straight people who are responsible for the existing inequality, it does have to happen, one way or another. If you're wrongfully imprisoned, you can't just walk out without SOMEONE being convinced you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So yeah, it's a bit shit, but that's just one more piece of the whole situation being a bit shit.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:11
ladymoanalot
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Actually there was - I remember wondering if we would get the legislation through at one point.
Was it just the same people that are creating a stink now though, the loud minority?

Those that shout the loudest get heard. The vast majority are quiet and probably not giving a crap but the usual suspects are out in force trying to represent a nation with their overly vocal opinions.

This is why I do not like politics. A few people with totally contrasting views to me, get to dictate how my life is lived.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:18
rockerchick
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What does it matter to MP's how people live their lives??
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:18
kimindex
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Someone should email him (and other MPs) this thread and threads like it. It's not proof or anything of a country-wide consensus but it may show that there are quite a few people who don't agree with the Carey mob, including many religious people.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:18
jesaya
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Was it just the same people that are creating a stink now though, the loud minority?

Those that shout the loudest get heard. The vast majority are quiet and probably not giving a crap but the usual suspects are out in force trying to represent a nation with their overly vocal opinions.

This is why I do not like politics. A few people with totally contrasting views to me, get to dictate how my life is lived.
Yes it was the same people, the same papers, the same churches etc.

Asking permission from the majority to be treated equally to everyone else makes me feel very uncomfortable however. I don't think I should have to do that.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:20
Chester666666
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This is one thing I agree with Kapellmeister on, actually- it does rather smack of having to ask straight people if it's OK, which is a bit shit, really.

Sadly, given that it's largely straight people who are responsible for the existing inequality, it does have to happen, one way or another. If you're wrongfully imprisoned, you can't just walk out without SOMEONE being convinced you shouldn't have been there in the first place.

So yeah, it's a bit shit, but that's just one more piece of the whole situation being a bit shit.
Or it could be done without asking as it is the right thing to do, it's more then a bit shitty that there needs to be some asking to get equality
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:23
jesaya
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Someone should email him (and other MPs) this thread and threads like it. It's not proof or anything of a country-wide consensus but it may show that there are quite a few people who don't agree with the Carey mob, including many religious people.
Do you think they actually care what other people's views are? Reading his words I think it will take more than the opinions of some ordinary people to overcome what is clearly a deeply held prejudice.

What amuses me about some of these MPs is how they say 'I support Civil Partnerships for gay couples' yet actually voted against them when that legislation was proposed.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:29
kimindex
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Do you think they actually care what other people's views are? Reading his words I think it will take more than the opinions of some ordinary people to overcome what is clearly a deeply held prejudice.

What amuses me about some of these MPs is how they say 'I support Civil Partnerships for gay couples' yet actually voted against them when that legislation was proposed.
Yes, but I guess they're subject, some of them, to thinking in populist terms and, if they think equal marriage has more support than they thought, they might think about it, at least.

I just think that some of them are given traditionalist, little c conservative messages from activists in their community and from establishment figures like Carey, and think that reflects what the popular view is.

But, yes, I doubt they'd bother reading such views, most of them.
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Old 18-05-2012, 11:39
ladymoanalot
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Yes it was the same people, the same papers, the same churches etc.

Asking permission from the majority to be treated equally to everyone else makes me feel very uncomfortable however. I don't think I should have to do that.
Whilst I agree in priniciple, is that not how our system works? I mean laws get passed by being voted for or against, you can not just choose that system for certain things and not others.

It is a shame marriage has a legal aspect at all and that it is written in law. If marriage is about declaring and sharing your love, why do we need a law to do that?
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