[Helbore]

Originally Posted by Gormond

I do like the idea of the Arm version though, although i suspect we will see it around the time of the iPad 4.

The ARM version is due at the same time as general Windows 8 availability - so it should ship sometime this autumn/winter.

[whoever,hey]

Originally Posted by PiazzaCharlie

I guess I just think the tablet market and the laptop market are distinct. If someone is in the market for a tablet or a laptop, they'll most likely by a tablet other than a Surface. If they're in the market for a laptop, they'll most likely buy something other than a Surface.

In your opinion? Thats very subjective.

Having a tablet that is finally a computer is very appealing to many.

Edit: for me, i could finally touch type on it, which has been impossible on any pure tablet.

[PiazzaCharlie]

I know that opinions are subjective.

Fact - most posts on internet forums are subjective opinions.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by whoever,hey

In your opinion? Thats very subjective.

Having a tablet that is finally a computer is very appealing to many.

Edit: for me, i could finally touch type on it, which has been impossible on any pure tablet.

What about the Asus Transformer?

[Helbore]

I was just trying to work out what sort of battery life we can expect from the x86 tablet. As a comparison, I had a look at the specs for the Asus Zenbook UX21A, which is an ultrabook with a 1080p 11" screen. That's close enough in screen size to get a general idea. The unit I saw reviewed had a core i7 processor, so it probably drew a little more power than the i5. The Microsoft tablets battery was 42Whr, compared to the Asus have a 31Whr, so the Surface Pro has about a third larger battery.

The test on the Zenbook gave it just over 4 hours of battery life, but that was whilst running a movie on loop until it died, so it was a stress test. So with the Surface having a larger battery, we'd probably be looking at about 5 1/2 hours under heavy load. If we're kind and factor in the lower spec processor and the power saving improvements in Windows 8, we may see 6 hours.

If that is the case, I'd say it would be pretty good for an x86-based tablet that is only marginally larger than an iPad. It means you might even see 8 hours of life out if it in real world usage. That would actually be acceptable to me, as it would cover a whole work day without charging. If I actually used it as a laptop replacement, then it would end up being plugged in when sat at a desk at work anyway, so could well hold its charge all day without causing me any problems.

Of course this is pure guesswork on my part. It may work out better or worse in actual usage and we won't know that until they get out in the wild. But it gives a potential impression and its actually not as bad as I would have expected.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by The Phazer

The Intel version is very impressive. A tablet that runs a proper operating system where you can upload your own files to the internet, run any code you want, has a massive groundswell of software, lets you mount USB drives, has a proper active digitiser pen and integrates with corportate networks? Win win win.
It will just depend on battery life and price.
The Windows RT one I'm far less sure about. There's no software yet, and if I wanted a device that censored what code I could run, why wouldn't I buy an iPad where I don't have to wait for anything to be ported over?
That keyboard cover is swanky too.

Completely agree and obviously full windows has better than Android/Chrome open source software readily available.
Intel is already on phones so will be quite interesting how the 'Intel premium' works.

wARM could in fact be as cold as IOS. Even colder considering it is not fashionable.

[IvanIV]

I wonder when they become available outside US. I watched the presentation and they said they would be distributed via MS shops and a selected online shops

Anyway, there was a funny moment in the presentation when Sinofsky (I think) wanted to show some tablet functionality and it stopped responding, so first he just moved it away from camera that was following him and then he took another device. Well, these things always happen when you want everything to be flawless. It's a law of nature, it had happened to me, too

[Helbore]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

I wonder when they become available outside US. I watched the presentation and they said they would be distributed via MS shops and a selected online shops

I'm hoping Microsoft won't be so daft as to go with a US-only launch. I still think that one of the biggest killers of the Zune was that it came out as US-only at first and I'm not even sure what other countries it reached, if any. I thought the Zune HD looked fantastic, but could I have one? No.

Microsoft need to make this a worldwide launch, immediately alongside Windows 8. No dithering. No "only launched in one country," rubbish. They need to make the launch exciting. They need to make people want one. Then they need to make sure everyone who wants one can get one.

If they don't, people will give up and buy a tablet from a competitor instead.

They need to "Xbox" the launch, not "Zune" it.

[dadioflex]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

Anyway, there was a funny moment in the presentation when Sinofsky (I think) wanted to show some tablet functionality and it stopped responding, so first he just moved it away from camera that was following him and then he took another device.

When that happened I started shouting "BSOD BSOD" at the screen. I'm easily amused.

I could live with an x86 tablet with 8 hrs browsing. Hell yes. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Been reading a few opinions around the Web suggesting Microsoft may be moving towards an Apple model - not licensing Windows and keeping a tight grip on hardware. It's a fascinating idea, but I don't see it happening with so little warning.

The extra 20% profit margin they could work into the hardware when there's no competition would help their bottomline - and I'm not talking about competition from Linux for home browsers/email machines, I mean enterprise competition. Windows has business users by the nuts. If they stopped letting anyone license the OS and encrypted the bootloader it'd be a game-changer.

Something I'd quite like to see, because it'd open up the home PC market to open source alternatives.

[IvanIV]

Originally Posted by Helbore

I'm hoping Microsoft won't be so daft as to go with a US-only launch. I still think that one of the biggest killers of the Zune was that it came out as US-only at first and I'm not even sure what other countries it reached, if any. I thought the Zune HD looked fantastic, but could I have one? No.

I have Zune HD 32GB, it's a fantastic media player, great sound quality with good headphones.

[Helbore]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

I have Zune HD 32GB, it's a fantastic media player, great sound quality with good headphones.

Didn't think they ever got released in the UK.

Oh well, it doesn't matter now. I've got a Lumia 800 which does the job.

[LostFool]

Originally Posted by dadioflex

Been reading a few opinions around the Web suggesting Microsoft may be moving towards an Apple model - not licensing Windows and keeping a tight grip on hardware. It's a fascinating idea, but I don't see it happening with so little warning.

I really can't see that happening - and even if they wanted to them the competition authorities would be on to them immediately.

If they were to stop licencing Windows then what becomes of all of the PC manufacturers? I can't see Dell moving to only building machines with Linux!

[Pretinama]

I rather like what MS are doing with the UI at the moment. I have an iPad but may well give a Metro UI pad a go.

[IvanIV]

Maybe MS want to jumpstart OEMs to try to do something creative, too. They obviously want to get to mobile market, they build the infrastructure for online marketplace. I think they'd be happy enough if they just sold lots and lots of copies of Windows 8 for PCs AND tablets.

[Lyricalis]

These tablets look great. A few managers at work have started using iPads, but find using the on-screen keyboard frustrating when they want to do much more than write a couple of sentences.

If there was a docking station available to allow it to be attached to a bigger screen and some storage I could give up on my corporate PC altogether. Perhaps the next version will have a docking port like Apples stuff does? A version other tablet makers could use would be great.

It would be great to be able to take this into meetings and use it as a notepad (with the stylus). I could probably give up on my paper log book altogether. Sure, nothing you can't do with an iPad with some accessories, but that's the problem - you have to buy extras on top of something that's already pretty expensive.

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by Lyricalis

These tablets look great. A few managers at work have started using iPads, but find using the on-screen keyboard frustrating when they want to do much more than write a couple of sentences.

If there was a docking station available to allow it to be attached to a bigger screen and some storage I could give up on my corporate PC altogether. Perhaps the next version will have a docking port like Apples stuff does? A version other tablet makers could use would be great.

It would be great to be able to take this into meetings and use it as a notepad (with the stylus). I could probably give up on my paper log book altogether. Sure, nothing you can't do with an iPad with some accessories, but that's the problem - you have to buy extras on top of something that's already pretty expensive.

I think the keyboard for the Windows tablet is also an optional extra.

[IvanIV]

^^^ from what they write on MS page it looks like the touch cover is included, you can choose the colour, the type cover is probably extra.

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

^^^ from what they write on MS page it looks like the touch cover is included, you can choose the colour, the type cover is probably extra.

Yeah I'm now not so sure, on the MS site it says

Surface comes with an integrated Kickstand and a revolutionary, 3mm thin, pressure sensitive cover that doubles as a fully functioning keyboard and trackpad. Your Touch Cover connects to your Surface with a single magnetic click.

If this is sub £400 and comes with a keyboard they're onto a winner.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by Gormond

If this is sub £400 and comes with a keyboard they're onto a winner.

There are lots of decent laptops and ultra like netbooks at £300.

Supposedly here the keyboard is an extra so as still a limited device so I'm unsure how they will get non niche sales.

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

There are lots of decent laptops and ultra like netbooks at £300.

This is still a limited device so I'm unsure how they will get non niche sales.

£300 netbooks are awful, they have poor quality screens and often are heavy with rubbish battery life.

Tablets are light, have all day batteries and great screens, all for the price of a netbook.

You say they are limited but it depends what you want it for! Netbooks are also limited too, photoshop is hopelessly slow on them.

Apple sold 12 million iPads last quarter, hardly a niche product.

[alanwarwic]

Originally Posted by Gormond

£300 netbooks are awful, they have poor quality screens and often are heavy with rubbish battery life...Tablets are light.....Apple sold 12 million iPads last quarter, hardly a niche product.

No one pays £300 for an 'awful netbook'.

The going rate is closer to £200 with 10 hours common on life.
£300 is for Air type ones. Heavier but certainly not built like the proprietary non repairable Compaqs we hated of old.

[John259]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

^^^ from what they write on MS page it looks like the touch cover is included, you can choose the colour, the type cover is probably extra.

I've only seen mention of one sort of cover - are you sure there will be two?

[IvanIV]

Originally Posted by John259

I've only seen mention of one sort of cover - are you sure there will be two?

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/about.aspx

"Express yourself

Touch Cover comes in five vibrant colors. Type Cover offers classic typing experience for those who prefer a more traditional keyboard. Pick the one that best meets your needs and represents your sense of style."

[Gormond]

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

No one pays £300 for an 'awful netbook'.

The going rate is closer to £200 with 10 hours common on life.
£300 is for Air type ones. Heavier but certainly not built like the proprietary non repairable Compaqs we hated of old.

Air type ones for £300, that's just nonsence that you can get something equivalent to the air at that price.

Please give examples of these products you think is better than tablets, most of these cheap netbooks come with slow HDDs and 1GB of RAM which is useless nowadays where 4GB is the norm.

[Batwing]

Originally Posted by Helbore

I'm hoping Microsoft won't be so daft as to go with a US-only launch. I still think that one of the biggest killers of the Zune was that it came out as US-only at first and I'm not even sure what other countries it reached, if any. I thought the Zune HD looked fantastic, but could I have one? No.

Microsoft need to make this a worldwide launch, immediately alongside Windows 8. No dithering. No "only launched in one country," rubbish. They need to make the launch exciting. They need to make people want one. Then they need to make sure everyone who wants one can get one.

If they don't, people will give up and buy a tablet from a competitor instead.

They need to "Xbox" the launch, not "Zune" it.

There was a reasonable expectation that if it did not make it in America it likely would not have made it elsewhere. The iPod was simply too dominant.