[patsylimerick]

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

[mary03]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

I've said as much about the bit in bold in other posts this morning.

[Ms Ann Thrope]

Totally agree, the parallels are clear.

What exactly would the oaf have to do to get the boot, is the question we have to ask, that along with 'why are we still watching?'

[ChipChomper]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

sounds spot on.
The biggest failures coming through this are the production team who seem to have forgotten all the lessons enforced on them at Channel 4 post shilpa.

[patsylimerick]

It just struck me that, in the context of the Deana/Shilpa situation, Cleo was very similar to Lydia, also. Her friend, supposedly, but not to the extent of standing up to the bullies and pathetically attempting to stay 'in' with them, whatever their behaviour.

[od hominem]

I certainly think it's linked to an insecurity about their status in the scheme of things, and a low IQ renders them powerless because they don't possess the social skills to compete; so they group together and attack the threat to their social standing. Interesting post, thanks for taking the time, and I certainly agree that Connor should no longer be in there.

[i4u]

Originally Posted by ChipChomper

sounds spot on.
The biggest failures coming through this are the production team who seem to have forgotten all the lessons enforced on them at Channel 4 post shilpa.

The obivious question is...if they don't like what the producers are doing why keep watching, or is it the producers know what keeps people glued to their TV's?

[Gusto Brunt]

Low IQ is a major factor. You couldn't add Conor's, Ashleigh's, Luke C's, or Arron's IQs together and get double figures.

[Bacon&Eggs]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

I'd argue Deana, maybe Shilpa as well, primarily, were made scapegoats, why make them the scapegoat, take your pick Reserved/Race/unwillingness to guffaw(love that word)

Being reserved in my book is very likely, you can hear it in their complaints of her, they call her the Ghost, and not a team player.

But your right the similarities are there.

Deffinetly it's Bullying but:

They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome.

They never do this, it's part of BB, they let things run the course, only explaining things if the Hm's ask directly. I think BB have always taken a far to lenient view of Bullying. Shilpa, Freddie and now Deana spring to mind.

I think the only crime BB have committed here is not kicking Conor out, and i happen to think they acted correctly. I want to be the one that kicks him out on eviction night tbh. That's BB

[NatoPMT]

I havent watched last nights episode yet but I know racism and prejudice are specifically linked to low IQ - within that, there is a need for order and structured thinking, like stereotyping and putting things in the pigeon holes that the individual understands.

That could apply to Deana, in that once she has been put in the 'dislike' box, which happened the moment Deana had to nominate on the first night, its almost impossible for her to get out again. Then Lydia sewed lots of dislike seeds around the whole house about Deana, and might've sealed her fate in the social order of the house - the others are too low IQ to question why they dislike her, and to reassess their dislike. It's unquestioned dislike which is where i think the low IQ question might come in

Race may or may not not come in to it directly, but i think the processes behind the judgment of Deana are similar

[Electra]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I can say from experience that it's not the intelligent kids who pick on my autistic daughter at school. It's always the thick ones.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by od hominem

I certainly think it's linked to an insecurity about their status in the scheme of things, and a low IQ renders them powerless because they don't possess the social skills to compete; so they group together and attack the threat to their social standing. Interesting post, thanks for taking the time, and I certainly agree that Connor should no longer be in there.

Thank you! I think you're completely right. They don't have the ability to critically analyse why they dislike her. The 'group' dislikes her because a few vocal housemates have axes to grind and have voiced their dislike. It's just been latched onto by others in the group who have applied no independent thought at all to how they really feel about Deana.

It's upsetting to watch, I must admit. Enough to make me consider switching off.

[buttercup891]

good thread.

[Cornchips]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Thank you! I think you're completely right. They don't have the ability to critically analyse why they dislike her. The 'group' dislikes her because a few vocal housemates have axes to grind and have voiced their dislike. It's just been latched onto by others in the group who have applied no independent thought at all to how they really feel about Deana.

It's upsetting to watch, I must admit. Enough to make me consider switching off.

This. With bullying (and this is what this is) you get a couple of ring leaders and the rest just fall into place behind them because if they are not with them then they may end up against them (not a good place to be in that house). Also a few of the HMS have Connor down as their winner. Therefore it might be in their heads that if they side with one of the favourites then the public will no doubt be on their side - why not? connor will be a potential winner won't he?

There seem to be a lot of them this year who follow the crowd - more so than usual it seems. Not sure its about IQ - maybe life experience? I have always been an independent soul (even as a child) and rarely followed the crowd (in fact more likely to have rebelled against the crowd just because ) therefore such behaviour is completely alien to me.

[aggs]

Originally Posted by Cornchips

This. With bullying (and this is what this is) you get a couple of ring leaders and the rest just fall into place behind them because if they are not with them then they may end up against them (not a good place to be in that house). Also a few of the HMS have Connor down as their winner. Therefore it might be in their heads that if they side with one of the favourites then the public will no doubt be on their side - why not? connor will be a potential winner won't he?

There seem to be a lot of them this year who follow the crowd - more so than usual it seems. Not sure its about IQ - maybe life experience? I have always been an independent soul (even as a child) and rarely followed the crowd (in fact more likely to have rebelled against the crowd just because ) therefore such behaviour is completely alien to me.

Again, which is exactly the same as what happened in the Jade/Shlipa situation.

The other HM's - particularly the girls - knew that Jade went in riding high in the popularity stakes and darling of the glossy mags. Donny had vaulted the fence and Ken had walked. Why shoot yourself in the foot and opt for the 'wrong' side?

[nerf666]

Just hope Deana stays till Friday to hear some cheers

Bless her!

[Bacon&Eggs]

Sorry but i think it's nothing to do with IQ No point in engaging their brains if it's going to tell them something they don't want to hear, something like, Deana's a nice person, or Laurens really nice. It's about survival. Lydia rejected Deana early on because she had realized she was very reserved, and likely a burden on her. All the rest are likely thinking the same way. Group Think i think they call it.

[Barrie Williams]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

Yes, good question, and true. People lacking in intelligence simply can't understand people who are different, hence hatred towards gays, blacks, clever people, people with more class etc etc. I've been told many times that I'm not a 'team player', but that's because I don't want to join in peoples stupid games and so on.

[Teddybear99]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Serious question. Is the hateful reaction to someone who is very different related to low intelligence?

I am NOT playing the racist card here - absolutely no way. But there are undeniable comparisons with Shilpa here. Take the race out of it completely. Shilpa was reserved, quietly spoken, unwilling to guffaw at inanity, well spoken and polite. Deana is very similar.

Now take the protagonists. We have Conor, Arron, Luke S, Caroline, Becky and Ashleigh. Caroline may be slightly better spoken than your average fool - but she's a fool nonetheless; one who admits to having made a career out of failing exams.

She is different to them. There was a time on Big Brother when being different was embraced rather than being a cause for suspicion. It was supposed to be about bringing different people together to see how they interacted. That sense of experiment was lost post Shilpa/Jade/Danielle/Jo; and we seem to be seeing something of a re-run.

Conor should be in a cop shop somewhere, explaining his threat of sexual assault. But Caroline was not that far behind him in last night's highlights.

The way they giggle through the insults, the way they target her when they are all sat together, the way Deana only has Adam/Luke A (Dirk/Jermaine); I think it's impossible not to draw the comparison.

It's bullying, pure and simple. The upsetting part is that Channel 5 seem to be manipulating it. They could have stepped in any number of times at this stage. For instance, they could have immediately confirmed that Deana's failure to do the task made no difference to the outcome. They could have take immediate action on the nominations discussions. They could have, and should have, booted Conor out immediately.

Ratings, eh?

I think it's unfair to include Becky and Ashleigh in that, Ashleigh stood up for Deanna last night, Becky may have dropped Deanna after her initial task, but I don't think that was ever going to be a really close friendship. Just because people don't get on or even bitch about each other doesn't make them bullies.

Conor on the other hand and to a lesser extent, but not far behind Arron (who was one of my favourites, but I'm rapidly going off him) were bullying her last night and it was truly awful to see. If the nominations are to be believed Ashliegh didn't nominate Deanna either.

As to whether it is related to low intelligence, I guess it depends on how you define intelligence. I have known people in my life who had little or no formal education, yet they were the most open and interesting people able to communicate with just about anyone. Likewise I have met people who had all the advantages in life, loads of qualifications but were small minded and bigoted.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Bacon&Eggs

Sorry but i think it's nothing to do with IQ No point in engaging their brains if it's going to tell them something they don't want to hear, something like, Deana's a nice person, or Laurens really nice. It's about survival. Lydia rejected Deana early on because she had realized she was very reserved, and likely a burden on her. All the rest are likely thinking the same way. Group Think i think they call it.

Yes, it certainly is group think. But I included the word fear in the OP on purpose. You mention Lydia and, here's the interesting thing, Lydia is stirring against Deana and definitely wants her out, but she engages with her and converses with her.

Conor/Ashleigh/Arron/Caroline/Luke S do not engage with her because they don't know what to do with her. She frightens them, I think. They just cannot handle her at all. I say fear because the reaction is so strong. You only react like that to something that raises very strong emotions in yourself.

Lydia doesn't like her, but she's not hateful towards her. She probably respects her; and Lydia's a bit 'different' herself, is she not?

[premixxed]

Great posts patsy.

Succinct, informed, literate, and nail firmly hit on head.

Kudos.

[Ms Ann Thrope]

They don't have the skills of self awareness, self monitoring and critical thinking that would enable them to judge how their behaviour is coming across.

Have none of them watched the show before? Maybe they have never been on the BB forums and witnessed the thinking processes of the audience in action? How could they not realise, other than the fact that a lot of them are very young and may not be aware of the history and significance of the whole Shilpa/Jade race row?

[artensoll]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Yes, it certainly is group think. But I included the word fear in the OP on purpose. You mention Lydia and, here's the interesting thing, Lydia is stirring against Deana and definitely wants her out, but she engages with her and converses with her.

Conor/Ashleigh/Arron/Caroline/Luke S do not engage with her because they don't know what to do with her. She frightens them, I think. They just cannot handle her at all. I say fear because the reaction is so strong. You only react like that to something that raises very strong emotions in yourself.

Lydia doesn't like her, but she's not hateful towards her. She probably respects her; and Lydia's a bit 'different' herself, is she not?

You have to demonise someone if you're planning on throwing them under a bus.

Lydia has done her fair share of this (periodgate) but is not a member of a group, is not being egged on and is not subject to 'group think' when it comes to Deana.

The group's reaction to Deana is escalating but I think that is as much to do with posturing within the group. Aaron, for example, is so desperate for the group's protection that he is now going out of his way to attack her, almost like "look! I'm one of you, I hate her too!"

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Teddybear99

I think it's unfair to include Becky and Ashleigh in that, Ashleigh stood up for Deanna last night, Becky may have dropped Deanna after her initial task, but I don't think that was ever going to be a really close friendship. Just because people don't get on or even bitch about each other doesn't make them bullies.

Conor on the other hand and to a lesser extent, but not far behind Arron (who was one of my favourites, but I'm rapidly going off him) were bullying her last night and it was truly awful to see. If the nominations are to be believed Ashliegh didn't nominate Deanna either.

As to whether it is related to low intelligence, I guess it depends on how you define intelligence. I have known people in my life who had little or no formal education, yet they were the most open and interesting people able to communicate with just about anyone. Likewise I have met people who had all the advantages in life, loads of qualifications but were small minded and bigoted.

Firstly, I don't equate intelligence with academic qualifications; often, obviously, they do go hand in hand but, like you, some of the smartest people I know barely have the equivalent of a few O levels and some of the most unbearably dim have several degrees.

I dragged Ashleigh into it because, though she made a half-hearted attempt to defend Deana immediately after the task (and she does deserve some credit for that IMO); she was the one who clearly heard what Conor said and engaged him in 'banter' about it. 'What if she threw water at you?'

I dragged Becky into it because, if anyone stoked the anti-Deana fires after that task it was Becky. She just would not let it go. She wound them all up - Conor included, and was like a dog with a bone throughout.

[aggs]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

I dragged Becky into it because, if anyone stoked the anti-Deana fires after that task it was Becky. She just would not let it go. She wound them all up - Conor included, and was like a dog with a bone throughout.

Which is a typical Josie tactic. Wind everyone up and watch them go with a look of bafflement and an 'that wasn't because of me, was it?'