[Joanne1938]

Originally Posted by lach doch mal

Now I don't believe in wikipedia, but I have seen this quoted bit in other sources

Doctor Who (2005)
On 20 March 2004, it was announced that Eccleston was to play the ninth incarnation of the Doctor in the revival of the legendary BBC science fiction television series Doctor Who, which began transmission on 26 March 2005. Eccleston was the first actor to play the role who was born after the series began, albeit by less than three months.
On 30 March 2005, the BBC released a statement, ostensibly from Eccleston, saying that he had decided to leave the role after just one series, because he feared becoming typecast. On 4 April 2005, the BBC revealed that Eccleston's "statement" was falsely attributed and released without his consent. The BBC admitted that they had broken an agreement made in January not to disclose publicly that he only intended to do one series. The statement had been made after journalists made queries to the press office.[10]
On 11 June 2005, during a BBC radio interview, when asked if he had enjoyed working on Doctor Who, Eccleston responded by saying, "Mixed, but that's a long story." Eccleston's reasons for leaving the role continue to be debated in Britain's newspapers: on 4 October 2005 Alan Davies told the Daily Telegraph that Eccleston had been "overworked" by the BBC, and had left the role because he was "exhausted".[11] Ten days later, Eccleston told the Daily Mirror this was not true, and expressed some irritation at Davies for his comments.[12] In a 2011 interview, Eccleston revealed that he left the show because he "didn't enjoy the environment and the culture that [they], the cast and crew, had to work in", but that he was proud of having played the role.[13]
On 7 November 2008, at the National Theatre to promote his book The Writer's Tale, Russell T. Davies said that Eccleston's contract was for a single year because it was uncertain whether the show would continue beyond a single revival series. In retrospect, he says, it has been an enormous success, but at the time there were doubts within the BBC.
Eccleston was voted "Most Popular Actor" at the 2005 National Television Awards for his portrayal of the Doctor.

This shows that firstly, the BBC released a false statement and that Russell stated that originally he was only signed up for one year. If the BBC had not released a false statement, he might not have had to say anything.

As I see it, he was signed up for one series, because it was not clear whether there would be a further series. After he didn't enjoy the conditions on the show, he decided not to extend his contract. There is no myth, no mystery, nothing to it. Anyway, he had the choice to leave and therefore left. Other people might not have been so fortunate, and not everyone will leave when conditions are unacceptable. The people that worked under the less than ideal conditions, might not want to speak up, because they are still employed. You get this in real life all the time, surely, this is not different.

I'm seriously confused about the level of dislike based on actually nothing, but normal behaviour. He didn't like it, he didn't stay. His employer released a false statement, and he asked them to retract it. Russell clearly doesn't have a problem with him. Whenever he is asked, he never tell tall tales, but behaves like someone who is diplomatic and mindful.

He also does work with a lot of charities (Mind etc.). Maybe leaving after his contract ended did not improve the conditions, but for me someone who leaves because conditions are bad has more integrity than someone who stays and thinks "don't care as long as I get my money".

He still is proud of having been the Doctor, and when you look up the thread about the father with the child, who met Chris, you will see, he is a lovely person who will engage with people.

I am honestly flabberghasted, how normal behaviour can be twisted into something strange. Not surprised when normal people think Doctor Who fans are strange.

Thank you. I loved Christopher in the role and (whilst its unlikely he will) I'd love to see him return. However at the end of the day its his decision, his life and the work he's done since has been brilliant. So could people stop complaining about the man, had he not been so successful in the role then Dr. Who might not have been on our screens today.

[GDK]

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

Matt Smith uses his natural accent, and I don't think he was hired because of it.

I think you're slightly missing my point. It's not about whether or not an individual actor is asked to use his own natural accent or not (after all, these are actors - change of accent is part of the skillset for the job).

What I'm questioning goes a bit deeper than that....

Have you ever thought to wonder why the Matt Smith was not asked to play the Doctor with a different accent? Why the (vaguely) southern England accent is just accepted as being suitable for the Doctor as a sophisticated, educated character? Is it OK that DT was asked to play the Doctor with a southern English accent? Of course an accent has to be chosen, but why is it usually that accent for educated characters?

Ever wondered why the "bad characters" in the TV version of "Wind in the Willows" or "Tales of the Riverbank" all spoke with "working class" accents, and the nice characters had posh accents? (Both old examples, I know, but there's still quite a lot of it about)

Ahm jus sayin, is all....

[johnnysaucepn]

Originally Posted by GDK

I think you're slightly missing my point. It's not about whether or not an individual actor is asked to use his own natural accent or not (after all, these are actors - change of accent is part of the skillset for the job).

What I'm questioning goes a bit deeper than that....

No, I understand. But it goes both ways. CE has a Northern accent, and plays an intellectual. MS has a Southern accent, and plays the same intellectual. You can't give them plaudits for casting a Northerner as an intellectual, and then criticism for casting a Southerner, without appearing to buy into the stereotype.

You could equally make the point about people with shaved heads are rarely intellectuals, comparing CE with DT and MS's floppy hair.

The more likely possibility - and the one that has been reported as the real reason - is that the casting and choice of accent wasn't made as an attempt to confirm/contradict stereotypes, but because they wanted to contrast someone with a strong regional accent against someone without one.

[glasgowwho]

Christopher Eccleston was a fabulous choice for the return of Doctor Who.

It's a shame that he only did one season but it would appear there were very good reasons for that.

And everyone I know who has been lucky enough to meet him has told me you couldn't hope to meet a nicer guy.

[be more pacific]

Originally Posted by GDK

I think you're slightly missing my point. It's not about whether or not an individual actor is asked to use his own natural accent or not (after all, these are actors - change of accent is part of the skillset for the job).

What I'm questioning goes a bit deeper than that....

Have you ever thought to wonder why the Matt Smith was not asked to play the Doctor with a different accent? Why the (vaguely) southern England accent is just accepted as being suitable for the Doctor as a sophisticated, educated character? Is it OK that DT was asked to play the Doctor with a southern English accent? Of course an accent has to be chosen, but why is it usually that accent for educated characters?

Ever wondered why the "bad characters" in the TV version of "Wind in the Willows" or "Tales of the Riverbank" all spoke with "working class" accents, and the nice characters had posh accents? (Both old examples, I know, but there's still quite a lot of it about)

Ahm jus sayin, is all....

True at one time, but inverted snobbery has become the norm in recent years with honest working class heroes and decadent posh villains.

In fact, the 11th Doctor is one of the few RP-speaking heroes on TV. Received Pronunciation almost always identifies a character as a villain.

[GDK]

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

No, I understand. But it goes both ways. CE has a Northern accent, and plays an intellectual. MS has a Southern accent, and plays the same intellectual. You can't give them plaudits for casting a Northerner as an intellectual, and then criticism for casting a Southerner, without appearing to buy into the stereotype.

I don't think you understand at all. What you just said makes no sense. One of those is the accepted stereotype. The other plays against it. Why would I give plaudits for reverting to the stereotype?

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

You could equally make the point about people with shaved heads are rarely intellectuals, comparing CE with DT and MS's floppy hair.

Not really. We're talking about accents, not hairstyles.

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

The more likely possibility - and the one that has been reported as the real reason - is that the casting and choice of accent wasn't made as an attempt to confirm/contradict stereotypes, but because they wanted to contrast someone with a strong regional accent against someone without one.

Qutie possibly. I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy, just a tendency. They could have gone for a different "strong regional accent" - to use your words.

And, by the way, a southern accent is also a "strong regional accent". Now who's buying into the stereotypes?

It's almost impossible to discuss this subject without buying into one prejudice or another....

[johnnysaucepn]

Originally Posted by GDK

I don't think you understand at all. What you just said makes no sense. One of those is the accepted stereotype. The other plays against it. Why would I give plaudits for reverting to the stereotype?

For being blind to the stereotype. For saying that an intellectual can be a Northerner or a Southerner, equally - by following one with the other.

Subverting a stereotype is a difficult thing to do without drawing attention to it.

[GDK]

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

For being blind to the stereotype. For saying that an intellectual can be a Northerner or a Southerner, equally - by following one with the other.

If we'd had, say 5 new Doctors with 5 different regional (and I include "southern" as regional, BTW) accents, then I might agree with you. Since we've actually had 3 new Doctors, 2 of which had southern accents, then I think your case falls down (the ratio gets worse if you include classic Doctors).

That's hardly "subverting the stereotype". That's "going with the tendency". Hence, I make the distinction of praising them for CE and not praising for DT and MS. Further, I criticise them for asking DT to use a "received pronunciation" accent.

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

Subverting a stereotype is a difficult thing to do without drawing attention to it.

Indeed, but that's no argument for not trying to subvert the stereotype. And, in fact, drawing people's attention to an issue and making them think about it is the first step towards dealing with it.

[be more pacific]

Originally Posted by GDK

If we'd had, say 5 new Doctors with 5 different regional (and I include "southern" as regional, BTW) accents, then I might agree with you. Since we've actually had 3 new Doctors, 2 of which had southern accents, then I think your case falls down (the ratio gets worse if you include classic Doctors).

That's hardly subverting the stereotype. That's "going with the tendency". Hence, I make the distinction of praising them for CE and not praising for DT and MS. Further, I criticise them for asking DT to use a "received pronunciation" accent.



Indeed, but that's no argument for not trying to subvert the stereotype.

But Tennant did not use Received Pronunciation. The 10th Doctor's accent can be described as Estuary English or "Mockney".

Matt Smith is the first Doctor since Colin Baker to speak in RP or "BBC English" as it was known in the days before its speakers were mainly portrayed as villains.

[GDK]

Originally Posted by be more pacific

But Tennant did not use Received Pronunciation. The 10th Doctor's accent can be described as Estuary English or "Mockney".

Matt Smith is the first Doctor since Colin Baker to speak in RP or "BBC English" as it was known in the days before its speakers were mainly portrayed as villains.

OK, so it's still southern. It's actually going with the accent the largest group in the English population use. Since the south east is where the largest part of the population lives.

And it's usually US productions that have RP English accented villains.

Let's see what accent the next Doctor has then. :-)

[be more pacific]

Originally Posted by GDK

OK, so it's still southern. It's actually going with the accent the largest group in the English population use. Since the south east is where the largest part of the population lives.

And it's usually US productions that have RP English accented villains.

Let's see what accent the next Doctor has then. :-)

While "villains" may have been a bit harsh, RP speakers are routinely portrayed as cold and flawed characters who lack the emotional honesty and integrity shown by those with regional "working class" accents. Inverted snobbery is pretty much the norm in TV Drama these days.