Digital Spy

Search Digital Spy
 

DS Forums

 
 

A Theory On Why England Do So Poorly At Football


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29-06-2012, 12:25
Gravitas
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,305
Quite astonishing such a joke thread has ended up with serious debate.
Gav Marcottie(?) the tubby football pundit made somewhat related comments the other night on Talksport - saying most footballers are working class which meant (he claimed) that the middle classes didn't think of it as an option as a career.

I find it weird that Gary Lineker seems to be the only British professional footballer who can speak and get his basic grammar and tenses right. Maybe The Ox as he was privately educated?
Gravitas is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 29-06-2012, 12:33
I, Candy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 2,511
Batty taking a penalty for england in a major event even though he said he'd never taken one before even in practice?
Does that seem like a team with great psychology?
Look at our cricketers and rugby players who utilise sports pyschology and win.
They have the nouce to use it.
Not only that, but it was the first time he had ever kicked a ball forward in his entire career. No wonder he missed.
I, Candy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 12:51
bikini
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 122
I am really not wanting to be insulting to footballers as thick.
I got a rubbish education but I read a lot and try to listen to all the debates and get a good idea about things.
It is just that we seem to always burn out on penalties or get sent off etc.
Lose our nerve and the opposition seem to feel it and laugh at us.
How come aussies etc love rugby and all play it and the indians all adore cricket and have billions playing it yet with a small pool of talent we beat them?
It is because we use sports psychology and utilise it to the max.
Just a view I guess among many
bikini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:01
DirtyBarrySpeed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,413
How come aussies etc love rugby and all play it and the indians all adore cricket and have billions playing it yet with a small pool of talent we beat them?
Gross generalisation, 'we beat them'.

Your views are coming across as incredibly ignorant.
DirtyBarrySpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:12
yaristaman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: London
Posts: 648
I'm sorry, but anyone who can like Rooney to Pele (or anyone of that caliber) must be on a wind-up mission. For one, no player (and yes that includes Messi and Ronaldo) can achieve legend status without having won a title with the national team. We can all pretend that club football is more important, but that's simply not true. Players who will be remembered for generations to come are those who have won titles with the national team.
So Cruyff isn't a legend then? Best?
yaristaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:13
bikini
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 122
Gross generalisation, 'we beat them'.

Your views are coming across as incredibly ignorant.
that dog don't hunt!
bikini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:20
DirtyBarrySpeed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,413
that dog don't hunt!
And you accuse our players of being 'not very bright'.
DirtyBarrySpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:28
Dub2
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ireland and France
Posts: 2,184
Technicality maybe but England didn't lose any matches this tournament
They went out to the first half decent team they played, as usual.
Dub2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:36
BomoLad
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,878
They went out to the first half decent team they played, as usual.
So did Germany and Portugal
BomoLad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 13:39
mel1213
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manchester/Madrid
Posts: 8,336
It is just that we seem to always burn out on penalties or get sent off etc.
Burnıng out on penaltıes ıs lack of confıdence and technıque, gettıng sent off ıs lack of dıscıplıne/self control - nıether are down to how "smart" aplayer ıs.

Lose our nerve and the opposition seem to feel it and laugh at us.
Trust me, the opposıtıon only laughs at England when the medıa etc belıeve as though they're entıtled to wın and then crash out. Otherwıse, they don't care

How come aussies etc love rugby and all play it and the indians all adore cricket and have billions playing it yet with a small pool of talent we beat them?
And they beat us a lot more than we beat them, what's your poınt?

England went to South Afrıca on theır summer tour and got soundly beaten and could only salvage a draw ın theır last Test to prevent a whıtewash.

It is because we use sports psychology and utilise it to the max.
Just a view I guess among many
No ıt ısn't. It's because we occasıonally have a good group of players who are at theır peak at the same tıme, playıng together as a group and who manage to be better thanthe opponents on theır day.
mel1213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 14:18
whedon247
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,773
humm not a bad OP actually, ive thought similar in terms of "too many english players are chavs" which i admit isnt 100% true and cant be proven,but i would like to see g.c.s.e grades for different nations footballers and see how they compare.

it seems ours just forsake having brains if they know they wont need them to make money.
whedon247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 14:30
mel1213
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manchester/Madrid
Posts: 8,336
humm not a bad OP actually, ive thought similar in terms of "too many english players are chavs" which i admit isnt 100% true and cant be proven,but i would like to see g.c.s.e grades for different nations footballers and see how they compare.

it seems ours just forsake having brains if they know they wont need them to make money.
Hard to compare GCSE grades of players from countrıes where chıldren don't do them ...
mel1213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 14:31
whedon247
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,773
Hard to compare GCSE grades of players from countrıes where chıldren don't do them ...
well of course,i mean the equivilant.
whedon247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 15:37
SULLA
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Black Country
Posts: 99,484
I'm sorry, but anyone who can like Rooney to Pele (or anyone of that caliber) must be on a wind-up mission. For one, no player (and yes that includes Messi and Ronaldo) can achieve legend status without having won a title with the national team. We can all pretend that club football is more important, but that's simply not true. Players who will be remembered for generations to come are those who have won titles with the national team.
I don't remember that Puskas. Who was he?
SULLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 15:50
Victim Of Fate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 4,439
While the idea that "less intelligent" or "less well-educated" people can't be good footballers is ridiculous, I think there is a fair argument that a low number of people from middle-class backgrounds (especially with a growing middle class) might hinder quality.
Victim Of Fate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 16:12
bikini
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 122
For the last time I am NOT talking about purely academic intelligence.
I am talking about the human ability to be composed and to still be good under extreme pressure which requires certain talents that are not about football skills.
remember that england do well in friendlies and the players are at top clubs in the world so they are good players.
But it is like fluffing your lines on your wedding day speech or something that is sooooo difficult to prepare for and your biggest ever day.
The way to deal with these types of tension is a form of mental skill that our players lack hence why other teams beat us when on paper we should do well.
The players from Italy learn many of these life skills along with football skills.
People keep on banging on about academic stuff.
Does anyone here ever read about sports and mental preparation etc?
batty steps up to take a penalty having never even practised.
Gasgoine booked along with beckham rooney etc all at semis or quater finals.
Remember frank bruno always good up till he met tyson and completely lost his bottle?
To put it bluntly england lose their bottle.
There are skills to be learned about keeping your bottle which is why some england players score their penalties and others screw up always at the final hurdle.
It happens in tennis and all sports.
Not about how brainy you are at bloody maths etc.
It is a form of ignorance that english teams have when it comes to been at camp and getting the right attitude and not blowing a fuse and not getting sent off in semis and not taking shite penalties because they are bags of nerves.
That skill can be learned as the italians showed us and many others have.
Calling me ignorant is just wrong and personal when no other arguement is put forward to challenge why on paper we are good but always fold in quaters and semis.
bikini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 16:16
bikini
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 122
muhammed ali was intelligent in beating foreman as he knew how to tactically win and so did lennox lewis against tyson and leonard against hagler.
He never recieved an education but in his sport he showed maturity and intelligence.
bikini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 16:44
Mark F
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,702
Germany have always been great but Italy have been up and down in major tournaments over the years...sometimes with the same sort of players.

World Cup winners then in 2010 knocked out in the 1st round for example.

I'd tend to say the Germans etc maybe prepare better and have more confidence at vital moments but as last night proved even they can come up short.

Ofcourse Italy might be aided by the fact most of their defensive players and Pirlo played for a very successful Juve side and know how each other work.
Mark F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 16:46
Tombstone
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,494
muhammed ali was intelligent in beating foreman as he knew how to tactically win and so did lennox lewis against tyson and leonard against hagler.
He never recieved an education but in his sport he showed maturity and intelligence.
Not the intelligence or maturity to stop boxing before he was beaten into severe brain damage.

'Oh, it's Parkinsons', people cry.


No, it being beaten senseless, but no one wants to admit it.
Tombstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 17:08
TRIPS
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,636
There are skills to be learned about keeping your bottle which is why some england players score their penalties and others screw up always at the final hurdle.
It happens in tennis and all sports.
Not about how brainy you are at bloody maths etc
Very true,ive said the same thing for years.
I came to that opinion from playing for dart teams.
Completely different game but the preparation you need is still the same, routine and composure, without it most players can let their mind wander so they rush and bottle it.
It was annoying to hear the excuse you can't prepare anyone for penalties under that much pressure.
Yes you can, well you can have them as mentally prepared as possible.
Ashley Young may have gone through it in training but as far as i could see he looked terrified, he wouldn't even look at the goal .maybe that was the plan,i don't know, but i would like to see every player.take there time walking up.
walk back from the spot a few paces,set themselves and look at the goal,give it a few sec's for composure, take a deep breath and hold it then run up and hit the penalty the way you decided in training.
never ever walk back turn round and immediately run and kick the ball. Look at all top darts players,this is exactly what they do when going for their winning double.they compose themselves under pressure..
many English players have not had a routine,that should be drummed into them, you need routine under tremendous pressure
TRIPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 17:15
BomoLad
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 14,878
If you take the mean average of a lot of sides we should be competing against or with at World Cups and Euros we're actually reasonably consistent.

2002 - QF
2004 - QF
2006 - QF
2010 - 2nd Rnd
2012 - QF


Italy's record in that time

2002 - 2nd Rnd
2004 - 1st Rnd
2006 - Winners
2010 - 1st Rnd
2012 - ???

France

2002 - 1st Rnd
2004 - QF
2006 - Runners-up
2010 - 1st Rnd
2012 - QF

Netherlands
2002 - DNQ
2004 - Semi-final
2006 - 2nd Rnd
2010 - Runners-up
2012 - 1st Rnd

2008 being the obvious and deliberate omission
BomoLad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2012, 17:28
DirtyBarrySpeed
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,413
Calling me ignorant is just wrong and personal when no other arguement is put forward to challenge why on paper we are good but always fold in quaters and semis.
The first sentence of your opening post in this thread provides ample evidence of your ignorance.
DirtyBarrySpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2012, 00:19
RichmondBlue
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond, Surrey.
Posts: 9,844
If English football want's to change for the better then we have to know what the problem is.
Look at all the top European club sides, how many English players play for these clubs, Barcelona. Real Madrid.etc
can't think of any, Sorry can't believe this is down to lack of intelligence or maturity. it's a bit of an insult,1000s of players have come through and everyone of them are thick and immature? no way.
It's down to basic skill and the style of football that has been drummed into our players from day 1.
We are not comfortable with the ball in tight situations, we cant find the space for pass and move as well as European players.
that is why the likes of Spain look as though they know exactly what to do with the ball, they pass and move and exploit when they draw the opposition out of position.
learn the close skills needed and the philosophy of pass and move to get out of trouble and to create and you will probably see
the England team play far better ,it may take a new generation to see real change.it will happen,everything is in place for change.
I wonder in years to come if we will then see English players in teams like Barcelona and Real Madrid, why not, it has nothing to do with intelligence,obviously maturity is down to the individual but that is not a major factor either,
There have also been many great players who have thrown a tantrum every game they play.
confidence is far more important,that comes with knowing you have the skills.
I agree. It certainly has nothing to do with intelligence, academic or otherwise.
There are certainly cultural differences, we basically play the football we enjoy. Why ?..the answer could be somthing as simple as our climate. It would be interesting to take a group of talented English youngsters to Southern Europe or South America for a year or two and see how they compared with a similar group left at home.
I don't know if anyone has ever played a game in Spain or Italy, even at a low level. If you have, the difference is plain to see. They have a different philosophy about the game. They are generally more technically competent than we are. Where we can sometimes gain the upper hand is by pace and physical strength. They are not used to playing the high tempo game that we enjoy.
RichmondBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2012, 00:47
bean999
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,686
I agree. It certainly has nothing to do with intelligence... There are certainly cultural differences, we basically play the football we enjoy. Why ?..the answer could be something as simple as our climate. It would be interesting to take a group of talented English youngsters to Southern Europe or South America for a year or two and see how they compared with a similar group left at home...
Good point about culture, and climate, yes why not, I suppose you can't run around like mad in the heat, but what about the Germans?

I can't help thinking if you care deeply about tournament football and yet play with a style that doesn't lend itself to it, and have your top players knacker themselves with a jam-packed season ending just prior to the summer tournament, then some kind of lack of intelligence must have something to do with it.

Either we need to be more like the Germans, ie plan a bit better, or more like second string sides and trim our expectations. Or more like the USA, who enjoy the World Cup without expecting to win it, and then go back to their more popular sports. The popular sport in England, the equivalent of NFL if you like (and like the NFL ruled by money), is club football.
bean999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2012, 00:56
bean999
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,686
humm not a bad OP actually, ive thought similar in terms of "too many english players are chavs" which i admit isnt 100% true and cant be proven,but i would like to see g.c.s.e grades for different nations footballers and see how they compare.

it seems ours just forsake having brains if they know they wont need them to make money.
I think our footballers aren't as 'thick' as they're painted, but as it goes football players in Germany have a better than average education. Maybe we need an equivalent to the American Wonderlic test.
bean999 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:26.