[sovietusername]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ble_Astronaut/

After my post on my favourite series finale, I thought I should do 1 on what has to be the best series opener EVER! I really cant stress enough how much I love these 2 episodes, not only is the 2 parter a bloody fantastic standalone story, but I really dont think you could hope for a better series opener. It's hugely cinematic in style, going from Europe in the Stuart era, to a Nazi run POW camp in WW2, to modern day Utah where the main character is KILLED (such a shock on first viewing, going from confusion to sadness, to BIG SMILES when they think he's dead and he just wanders out of the cubicle in that cafe with his special straw), to the white house in the 1960's (Matt Smith at his funniest, and boy can that bloke do comedy), to an old abandoned warehouse, ending with one of the most dramatic, and, after the past 45 min rollercoaster, the best cliffhangers ever, with a huge WHAT?! moment before moving on in the next episode to a chase across the desert, the apparently premature death of River Song, another perfect prison, a spooky old orphanage which gave us some of the scariest scenes Dr Who has given us in a while (I didnt find the Silence at all scary really, but when Amy finds the photo of herself and an unknown baby, that's just DISTURBING), Apollo 11, before finally ending on another WHAT?! moment with the little Girl's regeneration (remember we know nothing about Melody at this point).


It really is just 1 of those few stories that literally get's EVERYTHING right. It's perfect. It's action packed, it's really clever, it's produced some of the funniest scenes on TV in a while, and it also has some really emotional scenes e.g. Rory and the Doctor's chat when Amy is kidnapped (I get the feeling that in this series, Rory & the Doc are now much more friends than rivals) and when River explains her fate. Up until now we'd only really seen the Doctor/River relationship from his POV, now we see it from hers. And to already know what's going to happen to her, to have seen "the worst day of her life" is just heartbreaking. It's around here that I first really started caring for and being interested by the character and concept of River, series 5 was mainly focused on the brilliant NEW DOCTOR and Amy/Rory while before then, I'll be honest, I didnt really understand how River had met the Doctor before i.e. that she was a future companion. But the reason why this story is probs so good is that, while being an absolute cracker of a story in it's own right, it acts as the perfect intro to the main themes of this series (which were brilliant and SO clever+confusing, although I dont think they were wrapped up very well, shame the end of the series wasnt as good as the beginning, it had so much going for it). In just to 2 45 min long episodes we get the "death" of the Doctor, his relationship with River, her life, the Little Girl, Amy's pregancy, Rory coming into his own, Madam Kovarian, the Silence etc etc. It's bloody brilliant. I love this story to bits and highly recommend a rewatch, even if you've already seen the BBC 3 repeat. It's great

[sovietusername]

I fact, forget great, EPIC is the only word

[Josh Pinder]

I too find this two parter that status and trend setter tbh! It had everything! It was an epic story in scale and approach most definitely!

It established a fantastic set up for the rest of the series and also was the first to launch with a two parter and it worked so very very well too!

Not only that but it introduced us to some formidable and terrifying foes with The Silence...the mystery of the Astronaut/Death Of The Doctor/Madame Kovarian and introduced us to Canton.

Also has to be said....as a two parter (and as a series so overall) the cliffhangers were PERFECTION!

[outside]

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[allen_who]

I enjoyed it, but at the time it annoyed me that episode 2 didn't seem to carry on from where episode one left us. I'm okay with it now

[Scorpio2]

It was ok but it didnt feel like a 2 parter.

[bbll22]

Originally Posted by Scorpio2

It was ok but it didnt feel like a 2 parter.

I've seen this said a few times before I can never figure out what they mean by it. Is it just because DotM didn't start directly from where TIA left off?

Because if that's the case, I think it's just one weak excuse really. I like these 2-parters more where part 2 doesn't start off when part 1 left us. I think the Moff's done in it every one of his 2-parters (except Silence in the Library) and to me it works far better. The one's where they immediately resume always make the cliffhanger extremely weak to me and it's either just a flick of a switch or something to save them. I'm always thinking "We waited a week for that?" in those cases.

If it's not for this reason then fair enough, but if it is, I always just find it such a weak excuse...

[Muttley76]

It's a really great series opener, I think in terms of starting a series strongly, series 5 and 6 series openers are really a cut above anything series 1 - 4 delivered.

[Tumpy]

I absolutely adore these two episodes and have watched them so many times including this week. I love Canton Everett Delaware III as well and now I have a Mark Sheppard obsession.

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by Tumpy

I absolutely adore these two episodes and have watched them so many times including this week. I love Canton Everett Delaware III as well and now I have a Mark Sheppard obsession.

YES! Canton Everett Delaware III! How did I forget him. He, and the comic portrayal of Nixon, are 2 of the best things in this. I always thought Delaware should make another appearence. I know he probably isnt the Doctor's 3rd most trusted person in the universe as he had to be at the Doctor's "death" for the events of these 2 episodes to take place, but still, I think they should get to know each other better

[Tumpy]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

YES! Canton Everett Delaware III! How did I forget him. He, and the comic portrayal of Nixon, are 2 of the best things in this. I always thought Delaware should make another appearence. I know he probably isnt the Doctor's 3rd most trusted person in the universe as he had to be at the Doctor's "death" for the events of these 2 episodes to take place, but still, I think they should get to know each other better

Absolutely - my dream episode - Jack, Canton and River.

[Muttley76]

Originally Posted by Tumpy

Absolutely - my dream episode - Jack, Canton and River.

Quoted for the truth!

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ble_Astronaut/

After my post on my favourite series finale, I thought I should do 1 on what has to be the best series opener EVER! I really cant stress enough how much I love these 2 episodes, not only is the 2 parter a bloody fantastic standalone story, but I really dont think you could hope for a better series opener.

That's strange, because one of the reasons I hate this story is that it doesn't work as a standalone. You have to see the whole series arc before any of it makes much sense.

Another strange thing for me is the fondness of some posters for Canton. What's so great about him? I thought him one of the less interesting guest "good guys". Sally Sparrow, Nancy from The Empty Child, Jackson Lake and Vincent van Gogh - now those were really great characters!

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

That's strange, because one of the reasons I hate this story is that it doesn't work as a standalone. You have to see the whole series arc before any of it makes much sense.

Obviously there's a lot of stuff you cant understand without watching the rest of the series (I think that's good, surely the whole point of a first episode is to introduce the new series) but there's enough to be going on with and for me, the confusion is part of the joy. It can act as a standalone, it has lots of moments which are just unrealted to the rest of the season and it's really just so very funny and action packed, dramatic & moving. Besides, in some ways I think it's better without having seen the rest of the series, many scenes are much more effective than they were originally. I LOVE a good old mystery. There are many scenes which are better for this mystery e.g. the scene I mentioned earlier in which Amy finds Melody's photo of the two together in the future with Melody as a baby. Having seen the whole of series 6 that becomes just another scene tieing in with the finale, oh look it's a picture of Melody Pond i.e. Young River Song. But when you dont know any of that stuff, oh it's just disturbing. How can a picture of Amy be there? When was it taken, what does it mean? Who the **** is that baby? You can really sense Amy's freaked out. Forget the Silence or the weeping Angels, I'm very rare;y scared by Dr Who, (it is a family show remember, it's hardly the exorcist) but that was just creepy and, I'll repeat disturbing...

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

Obviously there's a lot of stuff you cant understand without watching the rest of the series (I think that's good, surely the whole point of a first episode is to introduce the new series) but there's enough to be going on with and for me, the confusion is part of the joy. It can act as a standalone,

For me, the point of a first episode is the same as the point of every other episode; to be entertaining/involving/exciting etc. I don't really like the series arc as it was done last series. I don't mind it as it was in the RTD era, where it was little more than teasers through the series to what was to come in the finale, but I don't like it to be as intrusive as this was.

Smith and Jones, now that's a great first episode!

[korbany]

Originally Posted by Muttley76

It's a really great series opener, I think in terms of starting a series strongly, series 5 and 6 series openers are really a cut above anything series 1 - 4 delivered.

I agree that TIA / DotM is quite simply the best series opener in the history of Who, better even than 'Rose' or 'An Unearthly Child', but I am not sure how you could consider 'The 11th Hour' in the same vein. It was a good episode, but there have been many far better series openers. Still each to their own

[TheSilentFez]

While I hated most of Series 6 layout and structure, I have to admit that I thought the arc-heavy two-part opener was absolutely brilliant.
The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon have to be some of the best episodes of NewWho and the defeat of the Silence is probably my all-time favourite DW moments.

My perfect series would begin with an arc heavy (to set up the series arc) two part opener then continue with less of a prominent arc for the next 9 episodes (2 of which should be a two-parter) before finishing on an arc heavy two part finale (to resolve the series arc)

[Whovian1109]

Re-watched it yesterday, it's one of those amazing two-parters I can watch any number of times and still want to watch it again. The best series opener of New Who and that's saying something (considering the 11th Hour is one of my favourite ever episodes) it was very very funny, jaw-dropping at points, with a brilliant resolution and some huge shocks that kept you on your toes. It had everything and set up a great season. Brilliant.

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by bbll22

I've seen this said a few times before I can never figure out what they mean by it. Is it just because DotM didn't start directly from where TIA left off?

Because if that's the case, I think it's just one weak excuse really. I like these 2-parters more where part 2 doesn't start off when part 1 left us. I think the Moff's done in it every one of his 2-parters (except Silence in the Library) and to me it works far better. The one's where they immediately resume always make the cliffhanger extremely weak to me and it's either just a flick of a switch or something to save them. I'm always thinking "We waited a week for that?" in those cases.

If it's not for this reason then fair enough, but if it is, I always just find it such a weak excuse...

Sorry to be picky but he also did it in The Weeping Angels two-parter in series 5 and The Empty Child/Doctor Dances two-parter in series 1. Agree with your point though.

[Shawn_Lunn]

I rewatched it last week, it's a fantastic opening story with some wonderful character moments, memorable scenes, gorgeously shot, yeah, basically, it's fab.

[bbll22]

Originally Posted by Whovian1109

Sorry to be picky but he also did it in The Weeping Angels two-parter in series 5 and The Empty Child/Doctor Dances two-parter in series 1. Agree with your point though.

Ah, it's no problem! It's one of those where as I wrote it I was unsure but couldn't be bothered to double-check! Regardless of that though, TIA/DotM was one of the best 2-parters ever! It's certainly up there in my favourites!

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by bbll22

Ah, it's no problem! It's one of those where as I wrote it I was unsure but couldn't be bothered to double-check! Regardless of that though, TIA/DotM was one of the best 2-parters ever! It's certainly up there in my favourites!

Indeed, it's a stunning two-parter, can't fault it.

[KezM]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

For me, the point of a first episode is the same as the point of every other episode; to be entertaining/involving/exciting etc. I don't really like the series arc as it was done last series. I don't mind it as it was in the RTD era, where it was little more than teasers through the series to what was to come in the finale, but I don't like it to be as intrusive as this was.

Smith and Jones, now that's a great first episode!

I agree. I liked the fun frolic opening episodes of series 1-4. Especially Smith and Jones and Partners in Crime.

[sovietusername]

After series 5 which was probably perfect, we had series 6, which was a very mixed bag. I like how series 6 was spilt in half as they did kinda feel like 2 different series. I'm not very keen on series 6.2, however series 6,1 is brilliant and if it were it's own seires with no 2nd half that let it down, I think I'd even prefer this series to series 5 overall.

Series 6 is huge, with a load of really big cinematic stories/arc. The opening 2 parter at the start of this series is probably the best, it's one of my all time favourite stories and I love it to bits, and I cant really think of many criticisms other than it has so many brilliant ideas and plot strands that not ll of them are easily resolved, which is why series 6.2 was disappointing. Obviously I've already done a thread on this (hey, I like it, shoot me) so I'll just recap. The opening scene is great, real fun to watch. The scene where the Doctor dies, OMG !!! I could not believe what I was seeing on first viewing. It was so "WHAT!" and when they burnt his body was so sad. Although of courser, I became much happer when the younger Doctor strolled through those doors with his special straw.

There's lots of comedy in this episode, one of my favourite scenes is the scene in the oval office, brilliant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rz5iImQzKc

There's lots of serious stuff to though, not only the whole Doctor death thing, but the mystery of the astronaut, Amy's pregnancy, River realsiing about her future with the Doctor, and the Silence. Also, 1 scene in the orphanage is really chilling, I dont mean all the stuff with the Silence, which is pretty standard really. But I've said before on The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit and Midnight threads, that this is the 1 time I'm genuinely disturbed by a TV programme. It's the scene where Amy finds the nursery, where she's a picture of hersself with her baby, and the astronaut comes in behind. There's just something so unsettling about that scene, that she can be there with a child she doesent know. the end scenes great, with a clever resolution with the whole "you should kill us all on sight thing." That's a great sceen, accompanied by a really great score. in fact the soundtrack to all these 2 episodes is really rather brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCHfVZIAZ6s

These are just 2 really good Dr Who stories,love them to bits, great acting, great cliffhangers, great everything. Well done Mr Moffatt and co, very well done

[daveyboy7472]

I obviously disagree with Soviet that Series 5 was perfect but there's no doubt in my mind that Series 6 was an improvement, a few episodes aside, but overall I enjoyed a lot more episodes than the previous run and there's even a couple of corkers in it as well. It's still, however, far of anything I enjoyed during RTD's run.

Having a 2-parter as an opener was an original idea. As I said in The Eleventh Hour thread, the one thing Moffat does do better than RTD is Series openers despite what follows, and he pulls of another good start here, though I'd say I prefer the other two to this one.

For me the first episode is the best of the two. The opening 15 minutes where the arc for the series is setup are the best moments as The Doctor is apparently killed and then a younger version of him arrives on the scene. I love the dilemma between the three companions and for once The Doctor is kept in ignorance of what is going on around him.

The middle part in the Oval Office is also good where we are introduced to the Silence and I loved the idea of not remembering them as someone looks away. The last ten minutes fall a bit flat but it was interesting to hear River speculate about her future and the prediction of her death at a time where The Doctor won't know her, forecasting the events of the library story.

The second episode, not quite as good but okay in it's own right. I was tiring of the fact we never seem to have a proper resolution to any cliffhanger during Moffat's run and it always seems to move away completely from the cliffhanger itself and move elsewhere which is really annoying. The Big Bang one I can accept because the whole Amy in the Pandorica was a masterstroke but here we suddenly move 3 months into the future. Yes, RTD did it with the Series 3 Finale but there wasn't an actually immediate peril to anyone, they were just all under The Master's control. Here we have the little girl about to be shot by Amy but it takes a little while before we find out she didn't actually shoot her.

As for the rest of the episode, it was okay and had a neat resolution to defeat the Silence. Loved the Davison-Style 'Brave Heart Canton' by The Doctor and the lady with the eye patch through the window. I also liked the mystery surrounding Amy that she was pregnant and then she wasn't and The Doctor's attempts to try and find out via the TARDIS.

Also loved the scene with the little girl regenerating at the end which added extra intrigue to the Series arc we'd already been introduced to at that point.

The America setting certainly added something exciting to the story in a different way to the foreign locations for Series 5, which seemed to add a general sense of boredom in those episodes.

All in all a very good start to what was an improving time during Series 6.