[skimminstones]

Originally Posted by batdude_uk1

Is it really so hard to answer the question at hand?

I get it, I always did, that you would have kept Fabio here, fine (so would I), but since he is not here he is on loan, which left back/left wing backs would say are good enough to play for us, that are currently available to purchase from other clubs?

You have said previously that you don't think Baines is good enough for us, fine then, then who else is then?

i have answered it over and over and over. You are asking em to play manager, ive given you my answer as to what i would have done if i were in the managers shoes.

I have not said baines isnt good enough to play for united either. Ive said it seems a very high price for a player i admittedly havent seen play week in week out.

Really starting to see why cantona gets so exasperated by you

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by zieler

What if Evra's replacement is Fabio? Then we would be signing someone simply to be backup rather than first team.

But it's fairly obvious that he isn't. Or else, we would have kept him this year and played him more often than before and not, as we're apparently about to, sign Baines for big money.

So the 'what if?' you pose is irrelevant because....it's not.

[batdude_uk1]

Originally Posted by skimminstones

i have answered it over and over and over. You are asking em to play manager, ive given you my answer as to what i would have done if i were in the managers shoes.

I have not said baines isnt good enough to play for united either. Ive said it seems a very high price for a player i admittedly havent seen play week in week out.

Really starting to see why cantona gets so exasperated by you

Okay, you have your point of view, and others have there own, which is fair enough.

I don't see what there is to get exasperated about, we are just have a good healthy debate, nothing more than that really.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

But it's fairly obvious that he isn't. Or else, we would have kept him this year and played him more often than before and not, as we're apparently about to, sign Baines for big money.

So the 'what if?' you pose is irrelevant because....it's not.

Really? So players we loan out never come back to become part of the team? Evans? Welbeck? Cleverley? Going back further Beckham? For me, this means Fergie wants Fabio to get first team football to aid his development, doesn't mean that he has suddenly lost faith in Fabio.

[MojoMaster]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

No it doesn't make sense at all. Why the hell would he be looking to Baines if that made sense to him?

Why suddenly would he make Fryers back up, out of the blue? Why does that make 'sense' over and above simply signing someone else?

I did mention that Evans would be covering too, so I wasn't suggesting Fryers would have been main backup/gauranteed sub.

There probably isn't anyone out there at a decent price, and Evra can still do a job, so if we have £18 million to spend I would have hoped he would have done the "obvious" thing and spend it in the midfield area to be honest.

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by zieler

Really? So players we loan out never come back to become part of the team? Evans? Welbeck? Cleverley? Going back further Beckham? For me, this means Fergie wants Fabio to get first team football to aid his development, doesn't mean that he has suddenly lost faith in Fabio.

SO you think we're about to spend £20m on a left back just to be back-up for a season?


Right-o.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

SO you think we're about to spend £20m on a left back just to be back-up for a season?


Right-o.

Are we? We look like we are considering signing a good defender who can play at left back and left mid, who will provide a good option for several years to both Evra and Fabio, for a fee that could rise to around 18 million. Pricey and I would prefer a cheaper option now, but I can see the benefit.

[Big Poy]

Baines isn't a bad shout, 3rd best LB not to be sniffed at.. I reckon 12-15m would be more reasonable though..

[MojoMaster]

He is not better than Evra though. Neither of them will be happy being a sub.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by MojoMaster

He is not better than Evra though. Neither of them will be happy being a sub.

It may be worth asking Baines. This is probably his only shot at Champions League football, so he may be willing to accept being rotation/backup. If he is, then we should probably go for him, if not then I don't think we should sign him.

[Bhaveshgor]

ji sung park has signed for QPR

[JoTaylor]

Originally Posted by zieler

It may be worth asking Baines. This is probably his only shot at Champions League football, so he may be willing to accept being rotation/backup. If he is, then we should probably go for him, if not then I don't think we should sign him.

If I had the chance to play for Utd but on the understanding that the first season for sure was going to be on a rotation basis I'd still bite (Suarez style) their hand off. He must know that Evra isn't going to be around forever. Also I'd rather be able to not be thrown in at the deep end.

Park has completed his move to QPR I see. Some are saying still at £5m as well. Tis a 2 year deal.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by JoTaylor

If I had the chance to play for Utd but on the understanding that the first season for sure was going to be on a rotation basis I'd still bite (Suarez style) their hand off. He must know that Evra isn't going to be around forever. Also I'd rather be able to not be thrown in at the deep end.

Park has completed his move to QPR I see. Some are saying still at £5m as well. Tis a 2 year deal.

The former may be down to you being a United fan, but who knows. The chance of playing for United in the Champions League may be enough for him to be willing to be rotation/backup. Who knows.

Good luck to Park, I would imagine it will be a fee potentially rising to 5 million based on them staying up and games he plays.

[BomoLad]

I'll stick my neck out and say there'll be two comings and two goings this week. Park counts as the first 'going'

[zieler]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

I'll stick my neck out and say there'll be two comings and two goings this week. Park counts as the first 'going'

Who do you think the second going will be?

[BomoLad]

Originally Posted by zieler

Who do you think the second going will be?

I think the Berbatov to Turkey thing could eat up. Or elsewhere. Possibly. A week is a short deadline admittedly but I'm a gambling man.

[skimminstones]

not that it really means much but john cofie looks like he is going to sheffield united on loan. Dont know how he did at antwerp last year.

[batdude_uk1]

Originally Posted by BomoLad

I think the Berbatov to Turkey thing could eat up. Or elsewhere. Possibly. A week is a short deadline admittedly but I'm a gambling man.

Berbs to Turkey? A strange move, as that is not really a big enough league for him I would have thought, as they cannot really offer him much in the way of a decent Champions League run, whomever or whichever team he joins in that region.
I think that Berbs is here to stay for this season at least.

[batdude_uk1]

Originally Posted by skimminstones

not that it really means much but john cofie looks like he is going to sheffield united on loan. Dont know how he did at antwerp last year.

Hopefully it is a loan with a view to a permenent deal sort of thing, as that would be the best thing for him, as he is not going to make it with us, there are just too many people in front of him here.
With Ched Evans not being there for them (for obvious reasons), this could be a good move for him, as the one thing that they lacked last season (after Ched went to prison), was a decent striker, so if Cofie could get himself some goals there, then it could be a win-win situation for all involved.

[JMTD]

Originally Posted by MojoMaster

He is not better than Evra though. Neither of them will be happy being a sub.

Based on form, Baines was by quite a distance better than Evra last season.

[MojoMaster]

Originally Posted by JMTD

Based on form, Baines was by quite a distance better than Evra last season.

Evra is still the better player though (imo).

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by zieler

The former may be down to you being a United fan, but who knows. The chance of playing for United in the Champions League may be enough for him to be willing to be rotation/backup. Who knows.

But that is simply not happening. We don't pay £15m+ for a back up full back, we just don't and it would be madness to do so. For SAF to spend this money on this player this summer he obviously thinks there is a need to have a new player in that role. Furthermore that means that Evra will have gone from playing 37 league games last season and being stand in captain to being relegated to second choice in the team this season, there is no logical reason why he would be willing or prepared to play second fiddle to another full back and play maybe 10 league games or even less if Baines doesn't get injured/suspensions.

[Tribec]

Originally Posted by MojoMaster

Evra is still the better player though (imo).

Evra hasn't played well for some time, his decline wasn't just last season, though last season it was much more obvious. I would say that last year certainly Baines was the better player, and it could be argued that the previous season that there was nothing between them. If Evra's form doesn't pick up straight away, at the start of the season, I dare say the arguement to your statement may well be indefensible

[batdude_uk1]

Originally Posted by Cantona07

But that is simply not happening. We don't pay £15m+ for a back up full back, we just don't and it would be madness to do so. For SAF to spend this money on this player this summer he obviously thinks there is a need to have a new player in that role. Furthermore that means that Evra will have gone from playing 37 league games last season and being stand in captain to being relegated to second choice in the team this season, there is no logical reason why he would be willing or prepared to play second fiddle to another full back and play maybe 10 league games or even less if Baines doesn't get injured/suspensions.

It is not madness, far from it, it is very sensible indeed, we need cover there, what we pay for Baines is irrelevant really, the fact is, that he is an accomplished player in his position, so will be able to fit into playing for us straight away.
Thus giving us twice as many options as we have had down that side for quite some time.
As for Evra's position, this will benefit him quite a lot, as he will now not have to play on with any niggles or any injuries, he can rest them up, and come back into the team, when he is 100% fit, rather then playing in neigh on every single game, without a break, as he has been doing for the past couple of seasons.
Compeition for places is always a good thing, it keeps players fron slacking off, safe in the knowledge that they will play, no matter how good or bad they play.

[Richie1001]

Originally Posted by batdude_uk1

It is not madness, far from it, it is very sensible indeed, we need cover there, what we pay for Baines is irrelevant really, the fact is, that he is an accomplished player in his position, so will be able to fit into playing for us straight away.
Thus giving us twice as many options as we have had down that side for quite some time.
As for Evra's position, this will benefit him quite a lot, as he will now not have to play on with any niggles or any injuries, he can rest them up, and come back into the team, when he is 100% fit, rather then playing in neigh on every single game, without a break, as he has been doing for the past couple of seasons.
Compeition for places is always a good thing, it keeps players fron slacking off, safe in the knowledge that they will play, no matter how good or bad they play.

But - when they are both 100% fit which do you play? Surely neither of them will accept being 2nd choice given that they are both currently first choice at their respective clubs.

I can see the point about Baines being more backup for a season with a view to taking over in a years time, but even so I'm still not sure he'd go for that and I can't imagine Evra being happy basically being told he's there for a year then he's done with.

For me, signing Baines would have to mean Evra is no longer first choice (unless Baines was happy to be 2nd choice). And in that situation are we saying a potentially £18m or whatever player is bought as backup?