[Shawn_Lunn]

Originally Posted by DariaM

Lets leave the charv, Billie Piper, out of the discussion... she was simply symptomatic of the insane selection of amateurs during the early seasons of Russel T David's tenure.

Okay, calling her a chav - not classy, though Billie has referred to Rose as a chav in many of her interviews.

Secondly, Rose is relevant to the discussion because she did open up the new series era with the 9th Doctor.

Maybe I should've made this into a Rose vs. Amy thread or a 'which one between Rose and Amy is the better companion' thread.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by DariaM

Lets leave the charv, Billie Piper, out of the discussion... she was simply symptomatic of the insane selection of amateurs during the early seasons of Russel T David's tenure.

Billie isn't a chav, nor is Rose the character unless you think chav means a working-class person.

Also, in what sense is Billie an amateur?

[Shawn_Lunn]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

Billie isn't a chav, nor is Rose the character unless you think chav means a working-class person.

Also, in what sense is Billie an amateur?

She isn't. The poster was just trolling methinks.

[Sara_Peplow]

Look at what the doctor does to peoples lives. He sometimes litterally comes crashing in to them.
He promises his freinds adventure and excitement but eventully things go bad. He is a tragic figure because he changes ,regenerates instead of actually dying. Meaning he allways ends up alone.
He is the last timelord apart from Jenny his daughter who he still doesn't know is actully alive and River who was born with timelord dna.Amy spent her childhood waiting for the doctor to come back. River aka Melody spent hers being brainwashed into a psychopathic killer. She later spends years in prison for the doctors "murder"and then burns to death in a library saving him and is "rewarded" for being a loving and faithfull wife by being saved into computor "heaven". At least she only had to "die" once. Unlike her father poor Rory who nearly didn't make it to his wedding or father her in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if Moffat does a total retcon in the ponds exit. 11 realises he screwed their lives up too much. Only way to save them is to go back and never meet Amy at all. She stays in Ledworth, marries Rory and gets to raise her daughter with him in peace and safety. Doctor sadly watches them from a distance before walking back into an empty tardis.

[mikey1980]

I find Amy Pond to be a thoroughly dislikeable character, partly down to the way she was written, and partly down to rather poor acting - Karen Gillan garbles her lines and posesses zero comic timing. I prefer Rory, although to be honest, I think both have out-stayed their welcome.

The best Doctor / companion dynamics in new Who have been Rose & the 9th Doctor, and Donna & the 10th Doctor - both had plenty of spark and good chemistry.

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by Sara_Peplow

Look at what the doctor does to peoples lives. He sometimes litterally comes crashing in to them.
He promises his freinds adventure and excitement but eventully things go bad. He is a tragic figure because he changes ,regenerates instead of actually dying. Meaning he allways ends up alone.
He is the last timelord apart from Jenny his daughter who he still doesn't know is actully alive and River who was born with timelord dna.Amy spent her childhood waiting for the doctor to come back. River aka Melody spent hers being brainwashed into a psychopathic killer. She later spends years in prison for the doctors "murder"and then burns to death in a library saving him and is "rewarded" for being a loving and faithfull wife by being saved into computor "heaven". At least she only had to "die" once. Unlike her father poor Rory who nearly didn't make it to his wedding or father her in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if Moffat does a total retcon in the ponds exit. 11 realises he screwed their lives up too much. Only way to save them is to go back and never meet Amy at all. She stays in Ledworth, marries Rory and gets to raise her daughter with him in peace and safety. Doctor sadly watches them from a distance before walking back into an empty tardis.

I wouldn't mind that ending, actually. I'd love for Rory and Amy to get their baby back to actually raise.

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by Sara_Peplow

Look at what the doctor does to peoples lives. He sometimes litterally comes crashing in to them.
He promises his freinds adventure and excitement but eventully things go bad. He is a tragic figure because he changes ,regenerates instead of actually dying. Meaning he allways ends up alone.
He is the last timelord apart from Jenny his daughter who he still doesn't know is actully alive and River who was born with timelord dna.Amy spent her childhood waiting for the doctor to come back. River aka Melody spent hers being brainwashed into a psychopathic killer. She later spends years in prison for the doctors "murder"and then burns to death in a library saving him and is "rewarded" for being a loving and faithfull wife by being saved into computor "heaven". At least she only had to "die" once. Unlike her father poor Rory who nearly didn't make it to his wedding or father her in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if Moffat does a total retcon in the ponds exit. 11 realises he screwed their lives up too much. Only way to save them is to go back and never meet Amy at all. She stays in Ledworth, marries Rory and gets to raise her daughter with him in peace and safety. Doctor sadly watches them from a distance before walking back into an empty tardis.

Nice idea. I'm actually a little bored of the new series fixation with The Doctor ruining companion' s lives. Not every one has to have their life destroyed. It happened a few times in classic Who, Tegan springs to mind, but not every subsequent companion. Please can we have a companion who leaves happy that they met The Doctor.

[RememberMeWhen]

Originally Posted by mikey1980

I find Amy Pond to be a thoroughly dislikeable character, partly down to the way she was written, and partly down to rather poor acting - Karen Gillan garbles her lines and posesses zero comic timing. I prefer Rory, although to be honest, I think both have out-stayed their welcome.

The best Doctor / companion dynamics in new Who have been Rose & the 9th Doctor, and Donna & the 10th Doctor - both had plenty of spark and good chemistry.

I agree with you. She's too bossy and sometimes I feel she overshadows the doctor.

The two main issues I have with Moffat: his overly complicated and completely boring story lines and his overpowering companions.

River is the worst companion, in my opinion. Can't stand her. Rose was likeable and relate-able to the audience and she had faults, she wasn't absolutely perfect. Her story lines were heartfelt as well. She didn't overshadow the Doctor. I thought for a while that Matt Smith just wasn't a strong Doctor, but then I realised it's Moffat's fault for having companions that the audience focus on too much.

How many times have the Doctor, Amy and Rory died, but haven't died? I get tired of it. If any of them do actually die, no one will believe them.

[Sue_Aitch]

Originally Posted by DavetheScot

I wouldn't mind that ending, actually. I'd love for Rory and Amy to get their baby back to actually raise.

...which would blow a hole in the space-time continuum bigger than Belgium seeing as it was Mels who helped Amy realise Rory had fallen for her

[Mulett]

I think Amy is long-serving more than 'most significant'.

[sebbie3000]

Originally Posted by mikey1980

I find Amy Pond to be a thoroughly dislikeable character, partly down to the way she was written, and partly down to rather poor acting - Karen Gillan garbles her lines and posesses zero comic timing. I prefer Rory, although to be honest, I think both have out-stayed their welcome.

The best Doctor / companion dynamics in new Who have been Rose & the 9th Doctor, and Donna & the 10th Doctor - both had plenty of spark and good chemistry.

I almost completely disagree (I do prefer Rory...)! I think Amy is a great character - her twisted mind from the crack and her parents being absorbed but still remembering them somewhat, being abandoned at some point by everyone she bonds with, only to get them back, her attempts at being the ballsy strong woman she feels she has to be and would have been had her situation not been improved by the new Big Bang, and the fact that she really does need her man to feel safe and whole (not in a sexist way, but in a loving relationship way...). And as for Karen - she's a great actress, one of the better companion actors they've had (but they've all been great actors). She has great comic timing - the first thing I saw her on was a comedy show, in which she was very funny. Often, Scottish can sound garbled when it's not enunciated deliberately, but that would detract from the realism of her (or anyone's) acting.

But I do like 9th and Rose's dynamic.

But then, I really like all the Doctor Companion dynamics...

[The_abbott]

I think rewatching the new series my opinion on Rose has devalued and my opinion of Amy has risen but I'm not sure why. I think Rose worked really well with 9 but I hated her time with 10 as if they were in some kind of love affair.

I rewatched the Beast Below last night and thought it worked better then when I first watched it because at the time 11 and Amy were new and it was getting used to them. Looking back at the connection between them they work realy well together and its clear there is a bigger story for Amy to come and also that there is a sense, now that we know whats to come, a greater history between the Doctor and Amy (The doctor having been in her life since childhood).

[Shawn_Lunn]

Rose worked better with Nine than she did with Ten IMO and Amy is wonderful with Eleven.

[andersq]

Amy and Rory better than Rose cuz they r his in-laws sort of and family. Something Rose will never be unless u count the metecrisis tenth doctor.

[Sarah Soreen]

To choose between Rose and Amy isnt hard for me as I cant bear Amy. There are so many times I have felt that it is the Amy show and not Doctor Who, he is just incidental, a bit like the designated driver. I quite liked her at first, but it just got too much for me and I will be happy to see the character depart.

Rose could be annoying at times, but nothing on the scale that Amy grates on me.

My favourite dynamic was 10/Donna personally but thats O/T

[mikey1980]

Originally Posted by Sarah Soreen

To choose between Rose and Amy isnt hard for me as I cant bear Amy. There are so many times I have felt that it is the Amy show and not Doctor Who, he is just incidental, a bit like the designated driver. I quite liked her at first, but it just got too much for me and I will be happy to see the character depart.

Rose could be annoying at times, but nothing on the scale that Amy grates on me.

My favourite dynamic was 10/Donna personally but thats O/T

She's too intense, too over-written. And for me, Karen Gillan gives you the impression of someone who is "acting" a part, a sign of a poor actress; she never truly inhabits the part. I'll be very pleased to see the back of Amy.

[Sara_Peplow]

Amy and 11 have played big parts in eachothers lives. He met her when she was 7. He saw her get married and have a child of her own. Wierd but the little girls little girl did grow up to be his wife making Amy his mother in law. Liked how she defended her daughter at christmas when he was annoyed River told them he was still alive."She's a good girl!". Sadly Amys good and innocent girl is still in prison but thats for another day.

[RememberMeWhen]

Originally Posted by Sara_Peplow

Amy and 11 have played big parts in eachothers lives. He met her when she was 7. He saw her get married and have a child of her own. Wierd but the little girls little girl did grow up to be his wife making Amy his mother in law. Liked how she defended her daughter at christmas when he was annoyed River told them he was still alive."She's a good girl!". Sadly Amys good and innocent girl is still in prison but thats for another day.

Every assistant has played a big part in one another's lives. That's what makes Doctor Who so compelling. But the whole story with River is just so unbelievable that I actually laughed when I found out the story. I find it cringey.

Rose ended up with the human version of the Doctor. He loved her. He went back to help her in school and do little things to make her life better. She was the last person he chose to go see.

Martha and Mickey ended up together because of the Doctor. The Doctor realised that assistants could leave him, not the other way around, because of Martha.

The Doctor completely turned Donna's life around. She really livened him up and helped him over his loneliness. He had a best friend in Donna.

But its more like the Amy and Rory show now. Don't even get me started on his relationship with River. But back to the point I was trying to make, the Doctor impacted on everyone's lives.

The one line that always sticks in my mind from all the Doctor Who episodes is 'if I have faith in anything, I have faith in her.' And the fact he admitted he loved her, he's never done that to anyone else.

[mikey1980]

Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen

But its more like the Amy and Rory show now. Don't even get me started on his relationship with River. But back to the point I was trying to make, the Doctor impacted on everyone's lives.

The one line that always sticks in my mind from all the Doctor Who episodes is 'if I have faith in anything, I have faith in her.' And the fact he admitted he loved her, he's never done that to anyone else.

Indeed! And it's not a convincing love story. I can see how River might be infatuated with the Doctor, but I can't see it the other way around.

By the way, River's introduction in Silence in the Library gave the impression that she knew a future and older doctor. She commented on how young Tennant's Doctor was. Unless I'm missing something here, I assume that the Doctor she knew (and was married to) was indeed Smith's young-looking Doctor. How on earth is this squared up?

[RememberMeWhen]

Originally Posted by mikey1980

Indeed! And it's not a convincing love story. I can see how River might be infatuated with the Doctor, but I can't see it the other way around.

By the way, River's introduction in Silence in the Library gave the impression that she knew a future and older doctor. She commented on how young Tennant's Doctor was. Unless I'm missing something here, I assume that the Doctor she knew (and was married to) was indeed Smith's young-looking Doctor. How on earth is this squared up?

Exactly! There are just so many loop holes and things that don't add up! His writing is clumsy. Steven Moffat even said in an interview 'it's good fun. Not everything is explained or makes sense. But that's what makes it good fun.' Since when in the writing world is that good fun?

Another thing that always annoys me: before Steven Moffat, the Doctor was anti-gun and violence and could achieve his goals without any of that. It used to make him angry when anyone used a gun. Suddenly Matt Smith's Doctor congratulates River Song on shooting everything in sight and blowing up buildings and killing everything.

Also, how many times have the Doctor, Amy and Rory died in all the episodes? Nearly every episode someone nearly dies but doesn't. Bad writing.

Russel T Davies was an excellent writer with a great perspective on how to make a strong Doctor and a likeable and relatable assistant. That's what Doctor Who is all about. Not who is related to who, how the companion has a child who is older than her, how every episode is on earth and the Doctor would never get married.

[Shawn_Lunn]

Rose and Amy do seem to be the most polarising of companions for a lot of viewers as well as the two longest serving, new series wise.

[JohnnyForget]

Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen

The one line that always sticks in my mind from all the Doctor Who episodes is 'if I have faith in anything, I have faith in her.' And the fact he admitted he loved her, he's never done that to anyone else.

That's all very well, but do we want the Doctor romantically loving a human companion? I think not!

The Doctor is a centuries old Time Lord - why would he be attracted to a 19 year old girl from an alien species? The whole Ten-Rose so-called love affair ruined the otherwise very good RTD era. Rose certainly isn't the love of his life (imo), even if RTD once stated on Doctor Who Confidential that she was.

The Doctor being attracted to River Song makes more sense. She is not one of his own species, but in the absence of that species, being part-human part-time-lord she's the closest thing to it, certainly closer to it than a full human. Although, nor is River the love of the Doctor's life (imo).

So who is the love of the Doctors life? Susan's grandmother, of course.

[k9fan]

Originally Posted by bbll22

I agree - all companions are just as important as one another. I do think each Doctor's first companion shapes them for the future obviously ala Rose and Amy for their respective Doctors, but every companion is significant in their own way!

(Oh, and Rory's just as important as Amy... It's an obligatory thing for me to post now! )

Rory XXXX There will only ever be one Rory, the Last Centurion http://erychan86.livejournal.com/59981.html

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by mikey1980

By the way, River's introduction in Silence in the Library gave the impression that she knew a future and older doctor. She commented on how young Tennant's Doctor was. Unless I'm missing something here, I assume that the Doctor she knew (and was married to) was indeed Smith's young-looking Doctor. How on earth is this squared up?

Because she's not on about looks when she says Tennant is young. The Doctor she knows may look younger but he's older (over 200 years older for at least part of their relationship).

Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen

Another thing that always annoys me: before Steven Moffat, the Doctor was anti-gun and violence and could achieve his goals without any of that.

Really?

Have a look at this.

and the Doctor would never get married.

So he had a bastard child then or are you denying he has a Grandaughter?

[RememberMeWhen]

Originally Posted by JohnnyForget

That's all very well, but do we want the Doctor romantically loving a human companion? I think not!

The Doctor is a centuries old Time Lord - why would he be attracted to a 19 year old girl from an alien species? The whole Ten-Rose so-called love affair ruined the otherwise very good RTD era. Rose certainly isn't the love of his life (imo), even if RTD once stated on Doctor Who Confidential that she was.

The Doctor being attracted to River Song makes more sense. She is not one of his own species, but in the absence of that species, being part-human part-time-lord she's the closest thing to it, certainly closer to it than a full human. Although, nor is River the love of the Doctor's life (imo).

So who is the love of the Doctors life? Susan's grandmother, of course.

Is she really part time lord though? I mean that whole storyline really annoyed me. I just don't see how. There's also a big age gap between River and the Doctor too.

Originally Posted by Corwin

Because she's not on about looks when she says Tennant is young. The Doctor she knows may look younger but he's older (over 200 years older for at least part of their relationship).



Really?

Have a look at this.



So he had a bastard child then or are you denying he has a Grandaughter?

Firstly, I meant Russel made a smart Doctor that demonstrated how the Doctor could prevent from using guns in a society that glorifies them.

Secondly, I was talking about River. Nothing else. Why would he get married to River, he hardly knows or trusts her?