[cpu121]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

It's normal to understand the working conditions and expectations of going into a specific line of work before one chooses to go into that line of work.

If you go into the army then you should expect deployment at anytime. If you do not like that, or think you will miss family, then joining army is not suited to that person.

Actually the Armed Forces have Harmony rules that dictate how long personnel are supposed to get between deployments. You see, in return for giving up certain rights and potentially having to make the ultimate sacrifice, we, the country owe them a duty of care too. It's called the Military Covenant.

And this is not the job they signed up for - they didn't sign up to fill the breach when a bunch of civil servants grossly failed to do their job properly.

[MidnightFalcon]

Surely if you pay someone £280 million to do a job then it's normal to expect them to do it without the client (UK Gov in this case) having to step in and do it for them.

[cpu121]

Originally Posted by MidnightFalcon

Surely if you pay someone £280 million to do a job then it's normal to expect them to do it without the client (UK Gov in this case) having to step in and do it for them.

Unless the client changes the job at the last minute and doesn't give you any extra time.

G4S were originally contracted to supply 2,000 people because that's what the Home Office's "finger in the air" estimate called for. The Home Office then belatedly worked out last December that they actually needed G4S to supply 10,000.

It's no wonder that a system set up to provide 2,000 people is struggling to provide 10,000 in the same time frame!

That's why the Ministry of Defence are furious with the Home Office, not G4S.

[MidnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by cpu121

Unless the client changes the job at the last minute and doesn't give you any extra time.

G4S were originally contracted to supply 2,000 people because that's what the Home Office's "finger in the air" estimate called for. The Home Office then belatedly worked out last December that they actually needed G4S to supply 10,000.

It's no wonder that a system set up to provide 2,000 people is struggling to provide 10,000 in the same time frame!

That's why the Ministry of Defence are furious with the Home Office, not G4S.

£140,000 a head???

Ok your post makes sense but **** me that sounds a lot.

[cpu121]

Originally Posted by MidnightFalcon

£140,000 a head???

Ok your post makes sense but **** me that sounds a lot.

The original contract was £86 million and in addition to supplying 2,000 paid security guards, G4S were also to traing 8,000 students and volunteers. Once you add in the costs of uniforms, training, recruitment, equipment, specialist capabilities (sniffer dogs) and a system to manage all this, that money probably doesn't go much further.

But last December, the contract was changed so that G4S were to supply 10,000 paid guards plus train 6,000 students and volunteers. For that they will get a further £198 million take the total value of the contract to aabout £283 million.

[MidnightFalcon]

Originally Posted by cpu121

The original contract was £86 million and in addition to supplying 2,000 paid security guards, G4S were also to traing 8,000 students and volunteers. Once you add in the costs of uniforms, training, recruitment, equipment, specialist capabilities (sniffer dogs) and a system to manage all this, that money probably doesn't go much further.

But last December, the contract was changed so that G4S were to supply 10,000 paid guards plus train 6,000 students and volunteers. For that they will get a further £198 million take the total value of the contract to aabout £283 million.

Ok.

You killed my outrage.

Spoilsport.

[ThePhotographer]

Originally Posted by cpu121

Actually the Armed Forces have Harmony rules that dictate how long personnel are supposed to get between deployments. You see, in return for giving up certain rights and potentially having to make the ultimate sacrifice, we, the country owe them a duty of care too. It's called the Military Covenant.

And this is not the job they signed up for - they didn't sign up to fill the breach when a bunch of civil servants grossly failed to do their job properly.

What did they sign up for? Drinking tea around a desk?

The soldiers get paid to do their job they chose to sign up for, so I see no problem with deploying some to the Olympic Games event in the capital of the country they serve.

[cpu121]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

What did they sign up for? Drinking tea around a desk?

The soldiers get paid to do their job they chose to sign up for, so I see no problem with deploying some to the Olympic Games event in the capital of the country they serve.

They signed up to be combat soldiers or aircraft mechanics or submariners. They train to go to war and they go to war.

Fixing Home Office screw up's is not a Defence function - in the same way that covering fire strikes is not a Defence function.

Use these soldiers at the Olympics and you take them away from their training, their day jobs and their families - all of which cannot be made up for.

That's why the Ministry of Defence will demand a very high price from the Home Office.

Perhaps next time the Home Office will do their job properly.

[stoatie]

This is going to be the problem with the army cuts, isn't it? What happens if (God forbid) we have to suddenly host an emergency sporting event at short notice?

[koantemplation]

Originally Posted by PrestonAl

I thought that's what soldiers did, provide security to the residents of this country :S

Then we wouldn't need a private company to do it at the cost of £280 mill.

[koantemplation]

Originally Posted by cpu121

Actually the Armed Forces have Harmony rules that dictate how long personnel are supposed to get between deployments. You see, in return for giving up certain rights and potentially having to make the ultimate sacrifice, we, the country owe them a duty of care too. It's called the Military Covenant.

And this is not the job they signed up for - they didn't sign up to fill the breach when a bunch of civil servants grossly failed to do their job properly.

Not to fill the breach.

But it would have saved us £280 mill to have them do the security instead of a private firm.

[cpu121]

Originally Posted by koantemplation

Not to fill the breach.

But it would have saved us £280 mill to have them do the security instead of a private firm.

No, it wouldn't. Using the MOD completely would cost a hell of a lot more.

See, the MOD are given a set budget. They need that budget to carry out Defence functions, like training an army and sending it to war. Guarding a gate at the Olympics is most certainly not a Defence function.

If you use that budget elsewhere (say to guard gates at the Olympics), then the MOD won't have enough money to carry out Defence functions like ensuring soldiers have proper kit and training.

It's the Home Office that is responsible for security. They were given the budget for Olympics security, which they were supposed to use. They cannot turnaround and expect the MOD to bail out them not only for nothing but actually at their own expense.

So if you want to use the MOD resources, you'll have to pay the MOD a very handsome price (because the MOD has better things to do).

[rjb101]

Originally Posted by cpu121

The original contract was £86 million and in addition to supplying 2,000 paid security guards, G4S were also to traing 8,000 students and volunteers. Once you add in the costs of uniforms, training, recruitment, equipment, specialist capabilities (sniffer dogs) and a system to manage all this, that money probably doesn't go much further.

But last December, the contract was changed so that G4S were to supply 10,000 paid guards plus train 6,000 students and volunteers. For that they will get a further £198 million take the total value of the contract to aabout £283 million.

But there only paying £8.50 ish top wack, no wonder they can't find the staff, It's only for a few weeks after all.

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by stoatie

This is going to be the problem with the army cuts, isn't it? What happens if (God forbid) we have to suddenly host an emergency sporting event at short notice?

'emergency sporting event?' Hmm. What would that be - a joust to the death between Osbourne and Balls or Scottish dancing with Brown and Blair?

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by RayRidley

Dunno about the strawberries, but Pimms is to be allowed - and this is a measure of how ludicrous this brand protection has got - they won't be able to sell it under the Pimms brand name !


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...s-7936311.html

They couldn't expect the Henrys and Henriettas to exclusively drink common lager, I s'pose...

What it's being sold as, then: the McPimms?

[Ethel_Fred]

Originally Posted by RayRidley

Dunno about the strawberries, but Pimms is to be allowed - and this is a measure of how ludicrous this brand protection has got - they won't be able to sell it under the Pimms brand name !

It's as if Valerie Singleton & John Noakes have taken over.

[Straker]

Teresa May - Presided over more cock-ups than Cum-Soon, the manager of the Bangkok Ladyboy Massage Parlour.

She’s a badly dressed, frightwigged, one-woman cluster****.

[thenetworkbabe]

Originally Posted by stoatie

This is going to be the problem with the army cuts, isn't it? What happens if (God forbid) we have to suddenly host an emergency sporting event at short notice?

War with iran could break out any moment over sanctions. All the Gulf states are ready, Israel has been training its army units for operations into Lebanon to take out iranian missiles there, the US and Uk have just increased their minesweeping forces in the Gulf, the US has built up its carrier force in the region from 1 to 3 and stationed extra aircraft in the region ready. The French have boosted their air presence in the UAE, and their carrier is there too.

And Cameron has half of the ready British Army thats not committed to Afghanistan guarding the Olympics..........

[MARTYM8]

Originally Posted by penelopesimpson

Has anyone told McDonald's that sponsoring something is meant to enhance your brand?

You should see the huge yellow McDonalds which has been dumped right next to the Orbit and in front of the Olympic stadium with its big yellow M sign - and that's not the main one.

It just looks so tacky - in what should be the panoramic view of the park (i.e. looking from the railway line from the south).

I could not believe it when I saw it going past on the train - at night its light up now more than the Orbit and stadium!

[penelopesimpson]

Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe

War with iran could break out any moment over sanctions. All the Gulf states are ready, Israel has been training its army units for operations into Lebanon to take out iranian missiles there, the US and Uk have just increased their minesweeping forces in the Gulf, the US has built up its carrier force in the region from 1 to 3 and stationed extra aircraft in the region ready. The French have boosted their air presence in the UAE, and their carrier is there too.

And Cameron has half of the ready British Army thats not committed to Afghanistan guarding the Olympics..........

It's extraordinary. 25% of the British Army which in actual fact means a far higher percentage of actual troops rather than support workers, tIed up protecting VIP's before being flung on the scrap heap. Can nobody around Cameron remotely understand how badly this plays? The Generals must be purring with satisfaction tonight.

[koantemplation]

Originally Posted by cpu121

No, it wouldn't. Using the MOD completely would cost a hell of a lot more.

There army are there and paid for.

They are not doing much when not at war, so guarding the Olympic games will give them something to do.

[Ethel_Fred]

Originally Posted by koantemplation

There army are there and paid for.

They are not doing much when not at war, so guarding the Olympic games will give them something to do.

The taxpayer pays compensation to soldiers for cancelled holidays, leave will have to be rearranged for other dates, troops that would have been available for active service won't be available as they will be on leave, training will have to be cancelled or rearranged...

[Blairdennon]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

It's normal to understand the working conditions and expectations of going into a specific line of work before one chooses to go into that line of work.

If you go into the army then you should expect deployment at anytime. If you do not like that, or think you will miss family, then joining army is not suited to that person.

Yes it is a contract, a bit like signing a contract to provide security for the Olympics. You meet the contract requirements or you do not get paid. Seems like the same rules do not apply to all then.

[koantemplation]

Originally Posted by Ethel_Fred

The taxpayer pays compensation to soldiers for cancelled holidays, leave will have to be rearranged for other dates, troops that would have been available for active service won't be available as they will be on leave, training will have to be cancelled or rearranged...

They don't need training, they could use the guarding as a live exercise.

Not all troops are doing things. Surely we can spare how ever many it needs to guard the Olympics.

I'd rather the army be used than a private company. They could even use a bit of the £280 mill to give a bonus to the soldiers.

[cpu121]

Originally Posted by koantemplation

They don't need training, they could use the guarding as a live exercise.

Not all troops are doing things. Surely we can spare how ever many it needs to guard the Olympics.

I'd rather the army be used than a private company. They could even use a bit of the £280 mill to give a bonus to the soldiers.

You don't get it do you?

The MOD does not have resources sitting around doing nothing. They are engaged in a Defence committment - whether that is carrying out their day jobs, training for operations, deployed on operational service or on leave having just returned from operational service.

Guarding a gate and directing lost tourists have bugger all training value to the Armed Forces. Indeed, when it comes at the expense of operational training, it damages the Armed Forces.