[Bester]

Originally Posted by Helbore

I guess he was a man who was always convinced he was right. Unfortunately, it seems like he was wrong most of the time.

I would say that this is likely a very astute observation!

[Big Boy Barry]

Originally Posted by Bester

I think it was somewhere between Encounter at Farpoint and The Naked Now......

To be fair, TNG was pretty poor until Piller came on board. Season 3 onwards was just great. I think casting Pat Stewart as Picard was just about the best thing that Berman ever did for the franchise to be honest.

Casting Patrick Stewart was mainly the effort of Bob Justman, not Rick Berman.

[Bester]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Barry

Casting Patrick Stewart was mainly the effort of Bob Justman, not Rick Berman.

This is very true.

This seems to cover the subject quite well.

And then, just in case there's any doubt, Berman himself confirms it here.

[GDK]

Originally Posted by CD93

Enterprise was cut short, IMO. Season 3 also served as a reminder of what Voyager's Year of Hell could have been like if they went with the original plan.

The Xindi arc also remains some of Trek's best work. Annoyed the hell out of me how procedural Star Trek wanted to be.

The Xindi arc? Seriously!? Just about the most stupid villains Star Trek has ever had! From the get go. Testing a "secret" weapon on the home planet of the enemy they vow to destroy... and then Nazis. 4th season was fab though. (apart from the last episode, that is).

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by GDK

The Xindi arc? Seriously!? Just about the most stupid villains Star Trek has ever had! From the get go. Testing a "secret" weapon on the home planet of the enemy they vow to destroy... and then Nazis. 4th season was fab though. (apart from the last episode, that is).

Agreed. The Xindi arc bored the pants off me. I would have preferred them to continue the Temporal Cold War and actually reveal who future guy was.

[swingaleg]

Blimey it's a few years ago now but some of it was oK

The enemy who had the skin disease..........the phage ?.........that storyline was OK but it really hotted up towards the end the Seven came in............phwoar.......and the Borg turned up

The Borg episodes are always the best................

[Big Boy Barry]

They overdid the Borg. They never should have appeared in Star Trek after "The Best of Both Worlds". TNG did the damage with the stupid "Hugh" episode. It got worse with Lore being a leader of a Borg cult. First Contact went with the "sexy Borg Queen" idea, and then Voyager drove it into the ground

[Muzer]

Originally Posted by Listentome

Agreed. The Xindi arc bored the pants off me. I would have preferred them to continue the Temporal Cold War and actually reveal who future guy was.

That's the problem. They didn't know. They were just making that shit up as they went along, and it was never going to go anywhere. At least they were intelligent enough to see it and change tact by season 3.

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by Muzer

That's the problem. They didn't know. They were just making that shit up as they went along, and it was never going to go anywhere. At least they were intelligent enough to see it and change tact by season 3.

Sure it had no structure or foresight, but they replaced it with one of the most boring story arcs I have seen in sci fi.

[srhDS]

Originally Posted by Listentome

Agreed. The Xindi arc bored the pants off me. I would have preferred them to continue the Temporal Cold War and actually reveal who future guy was.

My main problem with it was that it diverted the series away from its main goal, the origin story. Why set a Star Trek series in that time period and not tell the origin story? We should have seen more about the Vulcans, about the Romulan wars, we began to see the begins of the Kingon conflict.
The Xindi arc could have been told in any time period.

I think they took it for granted that a Star Trek series would get at least seven years (the other new ones had). so they were in no hurry to tell the origin story. But Star Trek had been weakened by several factors.
Been on screen for 15 years running in various guises.
Voyager was weak.
TV was changing and the audience wanted more. Networks weren't going to give them seven years just because they were Trek.

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by srhDS

My main problem with it was that it diverted the series away from its main goal, the origin story. Why set a Star Trek series in that time period and not tell the origin story? We should have seen more about the Vulcans, about the Romulan wars, we began to see the begins of the Kingon conflict.
The Xindi arc could have been told in any time period.

I think they took it for granted that a Star Trek series would get at least seven years (the other new ones had). so they were in no hurry to tell the origin story. But Star Trek had been weakened by several factors.
Been on screen for 15 years running in various guises.
Voyager was weak.
TV was changing and the audience wanted more. Networks weren't going to give them seven years just because they were Trek.

At least the final season of enterprise told origin stories. A little too late in the game though.

[Bester]

^^ True.

You could disregard the other three seasons of Enterprise and you'd actually have a half-decent show.

You couldn't do that with any season of Voyager, it's all garbage, punctuated by the odd decent episode thrown in every once in a blue moon.

[Stuart_Renton]

Originally Posted by srhDS

My main problem with it was that it diverted the series away from its main goal, the origin story. Why set a Star Trek series in that time period and not tell the origin story? We should have seen more about the Vulcans, about the Romulan wars, we began to see the begins of the Kingon conflict.
The Xindi arc could have been told in any time period.

So very true. And that's what was so disappointing about Enterprise. But Trek had already been run into the ground (as has been said so many times on this thread) to the point that I wonder if a new series would carry any weight at all...

What do you think?

[Bester]

Originally Posted by Stuart_Renton

So very true. And that's what was so disappointing about Enterprise. But Trek had already been run into the ground (as has been said so many times on this thread) to the point that I wonder if a new series would carry any weight at all...

What do you think?

You can attribute Trek's decline to a few factors;

1) The failure to capitalize on DS9's move away from the traditional Trek mold
2) The disintegration of the syndicated TV market and the move of Trek to UPN, a fledgling network that wasn't even available to the entire nation
3) Voyager/Insurrection

[daz100]

Voyager was really good sci fi. More popular than DS9.

[RickyBarby]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Not really:

What would happen to Seven of Nine when she got back to earth, trusted starfleet operative or viewed upon as suspicious ex Borg?

What would happen to the Marquis when they got back to Earth, re-arrested for their old crimes or pardoned for their service aboard Voyager?

What would happen to Janeway when she got back, her wildly out of character moments where she tortured crew members or broke the prime directive would be swept under the carpet or celebrated?

What about all that future tech on the ship? Starfleet allowed to use that or would they destroy it to protect the future?

That's just the tip of the iceberg really, fading out just as the ship reached home was a cop out really.
They should've got back in the opening moments of Endgame and at least had the finale dealing with the consequences of their actions.

But what happened in Voyager did it happened now Same goes for TNG,VOY and Enterprise, As the time line as been changed.

[Bester]

Originally Posted by daz100

Voyager was really good sci fi. More popular than DS9.

Clearly not. Otherwise it would have rated better, which it didn't.

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by RickyBarby

But what happened in Voyager did it happened now Same goes for TNG,VOY and Enterprise, As the time line as been changed.

It didn't change. A new, seperate, timeline was created.

[GDK]

Voyager was largely crap, but it does have my all-time favourite teaser of any Star Trek:
Scorpion.

2 Borg cubes, "We are the Borg. Resistance is...." Boom!!!

Pity about most of the rest of the series...

The best episode in season 1 was where they found a wormhole connecting back to....
I think it was called "Eye of the Needle"?
That one had characterisation. You felt for the plight of Voyager's crew. It fitted with a more realsitic portrayal.Should've been a season 2 or 3 episode in a "good" version of Voyager.

[CD93]

Originally Posted by daz100

Voyager was really good sci fi. More popular than DS9.

It really isn't.

[Derekb108]

Originally Posted by CD93

It really isn't.

Oh yes it is! Don't like DS9 Rather watch the original series than that one find it rather boring where as STriginal Series, TNG and Voyager the best series that I enjoy and watch more than DS9

Id wish they made a film for voyager

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by RickyBarby

But what happened in Voyager did it happened now Same goes for TNG,VOY and Enterprise, As the time line as been changed.

When Nero went back in time and destroyed the Kelvin it created a separate timeline. The events in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY still exist in the original timeline. However, as there is now a new separate timeline, those things might happen differently, or not at all within that new timeline.

The whole of Enterprise happened before Nero went back in time and created a new timeline, so everything that happened in Enterprise remains the same even in the alternate timeline Nero's actions created. Everything prior to the Kelvin's destruction would be the same.

It would be interesting to see, if they do a new TV series if it would be following the in the continuity of the original TOS to VOY timeline, or withing alternate timeline of the new movie.

Actually for all the Voyager haters, they could totally re-do it in set in the alternate timeline with new actors and different stories.

[CD93]

Originally Posted by Derekb108

Oh yes it is! Don't like DS9 Rather watch the original series than that one find it rather boring where as STriginal Series, TNG and Voyager the best series that I enjoy and watch more than DS9

Id wish they made a film for voyager

Voyager is not more popular than DS9. (For the record, I like Voyager).

[RebelScum]

Originally Posted by CD93

Voyager is not more popular than DS9. (For the record, I like Voyager).

DS9 is vastly superior of course, but oddly enough Voyager does seem to be the more popular of the two.

[srhDS]

Star Trek's handling of timelines has always been a bit of a mess.
Spock stops Kirk saving someone in case it would disrupt the timeline, implying theer is only one timeline.
Then there is a mirror evil universe with its own timeline.
Of course there was a temporal cold war all about trying to keep a pure timeline.
But Star Trek they splits our timeline in to two.

As Miles O'Brien says once "I hate temporal mechanics", seems like the writers did too and couldn't settle on a single method for how they worked.