[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by Stardom

most of the hate has come from GaGa fans actually...

I wouldn't say its all Gaga fans but some of them are out of control. They behaved disgracefully towards Christina Aguilera during the summer of 2010 and that put me off Lady Gaga tbh.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by MissDexter

It's not all about sales figures though is it.

When did The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Elton John last have singles and albums that set the world alight? They, and many others, often live of the back of former glories.

Sales of singles and albums are very different now to what it was when she had Ray Of Light out for example. The whole situation has changed so much, whether that be because of downloads or the fact that Top Of The Pops doesn't exist anymore.

Fantastic post. MDNA hit under 1 in over 40 countries. Set a UK chart record and set an itunes worldwide record.

For someone 30 odd years into their career to do that is still incredible. None of todays artists will be doing that come 2042. You can bet on it.

[elasticlove]

Originally Posted by benana93

Agree with all of these, though to be fair it's pretty clear that this thread was created just to wind-up people.

I agree.

Even if it wasn't the intention, I think it would be obvious that it would cause trouble.

[thelifeofbrian]

Originally Posted by MissDexter

It's not all about sales figures though is it.

When did The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Elton John last have singles and albums that set the world alight? They, and many others, often live of the back of former glories.

Sales of singles and albums are very different now to what it was when she had Ray Of Light out for example. The whole situation has changed so much, whether that be because of downloads or the fact that Top Of The Pops doesn't exist anymore.

The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, and Elton John don't make pop music and aren't doing duets with Nicki bloody Minaj. I wouldn't say it is fair to compare them.


It is commendable that Madonna is still around in the mainstream somewhat, however in my opinion, she's spent far too long living off the talents and popularity of others. Her actual talent doesn't merit the reputation she has.

[Radiomaniac]

Couldn't care less who hates her or why, shes's still Queen to me.

[Hit Em Up Style]

Originally Posted by thelifeofbrian

The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, and Elton John don't make pop music and aren't doing duets with Nicki bloody Minaj. I wouldn't say it is fair to compare them.


It is commendable that Madonna is still around in the mainstream somewhat, however in my opinion, she's spent far too long living off the talents and popularity of others. Her actual talent doesn't merit the reputation she has.

Elton not pop?! what!!!! Many of his biggest tunes were the pop numbers he sang.

Plus Elton is alway dueting with younger people.. He re-released one of his biggest songs with Blue (!!!! ) on back up vocals! I think he is also dueting again with Lady Gaga on her next album.

[MissDexter]

Originally Posted by thelifeofbrian

The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, and Elton John don't make pop music and aren't doing duets with Nicki bloody Minaj. I wouldn't say it is fair to compare them.


It is commendable that Madonna is still around in the mainstream somewhat, however in my opinion, she's spent far too long living off the talents and popularity of others. Her actual talent doesn't merit the reputation she has.

Possibly the most ridiculous thing I've read about Madonna - are you actually serious.
Fair enough she's had collaborations in the last few years but how can you apply your statement to her whole career?

Living off the talent and popularity of others - utter crap!!!!
I'd love to hear your examples.

[ladymoanalot]

You do not have to like her but you can not knock her for longevity.

She was the background of my youth and the best years of my life from everything to nostalgia to current pleasure she is at the top for me.

It is an age thing for most I think

[madiain28]

Madonna is having a backlash purely based on her age. Media has always had a stormy relationship with Madonna as she has never conformed to what they want. In the early stages of her career she refused to do many interviews or have her pictures taken. She refused to allow the press to either of her weddings. Refused to do deals on selling pictures of her children.
Madonna throughout her career has manged to use the press to her advantage and still continues to do so. For an artist the media continuesly says is irrelevant they spend enough time printing stories about her and splashing pictures in the papers hardy irrelevant. MDNA topped the album charts in 40 countries again hardly makes her irrelevant.
The media are able to make and break film and music careers and have spent 30 years trying to do this to Madonna and failed this infuriates them.
The negative comments from bloggers generally are from fans of other artists. Reason for this is the fact Madonna is the biggest female artist in the world both in single and album sales. she also holds the record for best selling tours for a female artist. For some reason this angers some people as the feel she doesn't deserve it or isn't talented. At the end of the day regardless of the negative press or views of others Madonna has continued to make headlines sell records and sell out tours at hugely inflated prices that most artists could only dream of. The fact also is that worldwide very few artists could sell out arena tours in the current financial situation let alone sell out stadiums.

[ddegroodt]

Funny you mention this. I have actually written an article about Madonna tonight for my blog in which I wonder whether she can actually continue to reinvent herself.

I get the impression that she is trying too hard to be current and rather fails to be up to date.

She's always been like marmite really, and I don't suppose that will change.

If you're interested in reading the article here it is

http://glopop.co.uk/2012/07/12/can-m...nvent-herself/

[Josh Pinder]

Originally Posted by ddegroodt

Funny you mention this. I have actually written an article about Madonna tonight for my blog in which I wonder whether she can actually continue to reinvent herself.

I get the impression that she is trying too hard to be current and rather fails to be up to date.

She's always been like marmite really, and I don't suppose that will change.

If you're interested in reading the article here it is

http://glopop.co.uk/2012/07/12/can-m...nvent-herself/

That is a fantastic article (despite the few blips/fact mistakes there regarding dates and titles "Bedroom Stories" for example)....but it does open up a massive question....4 decades in, established legacy, 30 years in...where is her next venture and step in terms of sound, style, look, progression from MDNA as an album and era.

It will be exciting to see where she heads next tbh...and i really think given more tme to focus on her music, imagery, concepts she can really branch out to an exiting new reinvention and identity with music.

I posted ideas in the main Madonna AT...about her original Film Soundtrack idea before she made American Life...and perhaps revisiting that idea bringing film elements/cinematic displays INTO the new music and a new studio album.....would be interesting but yeah a definite watch this space scenario.

[NewWorldMan]

Originally Posted by madiain28

For some reason this angers some people as the feel she doesn't deserve it or isn't talented.

I think when judging artists too many people fail to distinguish between aesthetic and technical judgement. The former is subjective while the latter is objective (with some subjective elements).

E.g., it is possible to regard an artist as talented while not being a fan of their music. Madonna is clearly talented as a pop star, especially as judged by looking at her career as a whole. I think it's possible to hold that view even if you're not a fan.

It's also possible to like an artist while acknowledging that technically other artists are better, e.g., might be better singers, better guitarists or what not. E.g., I prefer Madonna to Whitney Houston even though I acknowledge that she was technically a better singer than Madonna.

But then there might be subjective variations within objective technical judgements. E.g., Elton John and Stevie Wonder are objectively better singers than me but is Stevie Wonder (at his peak) a better singer than Elton John (at his peak)? That distinction might be subjective.

[Fear of Fours]

Originally Posted by madiain28

At the end of the day regardless of the negative press or views of others Madonna has continued to make headlines sell records and sell out tours at hugely inflated prices that most artists could only dream of. The fact also is that worldwide very few artists could sell out arena tours in the current financial situation let alone sell out stadiums.

But this is the thing. Madonna isn't technically selling out all of these stadiums like her fans and management like you to believe. Take Gothenburg for example. 36,472 tickets went on sale and they all sold out. Great. But the stadium itself can fit over 75,000 people for concerts. You've only got to look at the aerial shots and YouTube videos posted online to see that she didn't actually sell out the complete stadium because half of it was empty. Guess they "projected low sales, so it's technically sold out". Funny how in Rome, at the exact same venue, this time she's "sold out" with 36,658 tickets sold, while for Confessions Tour she was sold out with 63,054. Guess they released less tickets this time "for safety reasons", and "projected lower sales because she did other concerts in the country". Most of the figures make her box office performance look better than it actually is when you keep in mind the full capacity of the stadiums that were hired.

If she can't live up to the reputation of a performer who sells out every show, she should accept it and book smaller venues or sell more affordable tickets. Why book a 70,000 seat stadium when you're only planning on making about half of that available? There's no denying that Madonna is doing a great business with her tour, sold out or not, but there's also no denying that her team is bending the truth to her advantage. There are TONS of shows reported to Billboard with only a few tickets unsold which are still marked as NOT sold out, but in Madonna's case even 30,000 unsold tickets still make the show sold out. Now her fans on the forums are claiming that the reported numbers are LOWER than the actual real attendance, and that there were actually more tickets sold than what Live Nation reported. And of course, the "technically sold out" excuse is used in every sentence.

I've read that some people believe her low sales are partly due to the economic crisis in Europe, but it doesn't make sense since she packed venues in the countries whose economies are hanging by a thread (Spain, Portugal and Italy for instance) while territories which are faring better than the rest (Sweden) saw half-full (or half-empty) stadiums. A lot it down to people not caring for MDNA and the fact that she's touring so frequently nowadays.

[gpk]

Originally Posted by Fear of Fours

Madonna isn't technically selling out all of these stadiums like her fans and management like you to believe.

maybe some of her fans are like me, perhaps they take the figures presented on face value. when i look at her concert footage on youtube, i cant say the most important aspect is how full the stadium is. to be honest, i hadn't given it a lot of thought. as interesting and as well researched as your post is. i have to wonder though, what is the point?

it seems a lot of effort to come up with those figures, read related topics in forums and view the concert footage. so i can only assume the purpose is to discredit her and her management. however, i wouldn't assume that all her fans are that obsessive or creative with the truth, like you suggested.

[gpk]

Originally Posted by Fear of Fours

If she can't live up to the reputation of a performer who sells out every show, she should accept it and book smaller venues or sell more affordable tickets.

as a fan i would prefer her to do small venues at more affordable prices. an unexpected car repair has ruled me out being able to pick up tickets at the last minute. surely though, if she did these things, she would still be selling out every show and her reputation would still be intact.

i suspect that though, some would dwell on her lowering her expectations and suggest she was manipulating the situation to her advantage to continue as a successful touring act.

[50 Cent Rules]

Originally Posted by elasticlove

I agree.

Even if it wasn't the intention, I think it would be obvious that it would cause trouble.

how do you work this out? i am mearly asking why Madge is now getting so many childish insults aimed at her.

I think some on here take things too seriously.

[Boobob]

Originally Posted by Fear of Fours

But this is the thing. Madonna isn't technically selling out all of these stadiums like her fans and management like you to believe. Take Gothenburg for example. 36,472 tickets went on sale and they all sold out. Great. But the stadium itself can fit over 75,000 people for concerts. You've only got to look at the aerial shots and YouTube videos posted online to see that she didn't actually sell out the complete stadium because half of it was empty. Guess they "projected low sales, so it's technically sold out". Funny how in Rome, at the exact same venue, this time she's "sold out" with 36,658 tickets sold, while for Confessions Tour she was sold out with 63,054. Guess they released less tickets this time "for safety reasons", and "projected lower sales because she did other concerts in the country". Most of the figures make her box office performance look better than it actually is when you keep in mind the full capacity of the stadiums that were hired.

If she can't live up to the reputation of a performer who sells out every show, she should accept it and book smaller venues or sell more affordable tickets. Why book a 70,000 seat stadium when you're only planning on making about half of that available? There's no denying that Madonna is doing a great business with her tour, sold out or not, but there's also no denying that her team is bending the truth to her advantage. There are TONS of shows reported to Billboard with only a few tickets unsold which are still marked as NOT sold out, but in Madonna's case even 30,000 unsold tickets still make the show sold out. Now her fans on the forums are claiming that the reported numbers are LOWER than the actual real attendance, and that there were actually more tickets sold than what Live Nation reported. And of course, the "technically sold out" excuse is used in every sentence.

I've read that some people believe her low sales are partly due to the economic crisis in Europe, but it doesn't make sense since she packed venues in the countries whose economies are hanging by a thread (Spain, Portugal and Italy for instance) while territories which are faring better than the rest (Sweden) saw half-full (or half-empty) stadiums. A lot it down to people not caring for MDNA and the fact that she's touring so frequently nowadays.

They do the concert 'sold out' stats spin all the time with any artist, it's not just Madonna, you're not that naive are you. I think her lower attendees are because of a low selling album without a mega hot single and her over saturation of the market in Europe with her touring. She's touring Australia a market she hasn't toured in for 20 years, I bet the stats will be amazing for that market. America is pretty much sold out too.

Ye I'm going to go there because I'm sick of all the negativity just aimed at Madonna. Lady Gaga hasn't had technical sell outs either, one of her shows in Asia didn't sell well and tickets were discounted and even given away, so if it can even happen to the most current name in music, it can happen to anyone. Madonna has added another stadium date for Medellin just the other day. Yes some dates haven't sold as well but I know for a fact some who attended some concerts stated that the arenas were jam packed and looked sold out to them.

[TH14]

Originally Posted by Boobob

They do the concert 'sold out' stats spin all the time with any artist, it's not just Madonna, you're not that naive are you. I think her lower attendees are because of a low selling album without a mega hot single and her over saturation of the market in Europe with her touring. She's touring Australia a market she hasn't toured in for 20 years, I bet the stats will be amazing for that market. America is pretty much sold out too.

Ye I'm going to go there because I'm sick of all the negativity just aimed at Madonna. Lady Gaga hasn't had technical sell outs either, one of her shows in Asia didn't sell well and tickets were discounted and even given away, so if it can even happen to the most current name in music, it can happen to anyone. Madonna has added another stadium date for Medellin just the other day. Yes some dates haven't sold as well but I know for a fact some who attended some concerts stated that the arenas were jam packed and looked sold out to them.

I agree that the Europe market has been over saturate. She did a second leg of S&S solely in Europe as well as doing the show the year before. America has sold exceptionally well and she's sold 100,000 tickets for Brazil and South America has sold well. I imagine OZ will sell really well also. Everything is all doom and gloom but it really isn't, she's doing just fine

[WhatWasThat]

I think she must be admired for her hard work! She never stops! This whole Lady Gaga thing is beyong a joke... Im sure there best friends in private! That will be the headlines for 2013 and a duet will be on the cards - then what will happen?!

[Fear of Fours]

The staging at concerts can sometimes dictate how many seats can go on sale due to the size of the production etc., but there is no way that a stage is the reason for only putting half a stadium on sale. Selling 36,472 of a 75,000 seat stadium is NOT sold out. There is no doubt that Madonna has mostly sold the tickets put on sale for venues but a fair few of those venues have actually had upwards of 30,000/40,000 seats not actually put on sale. So all this talk and boasting about her filling every single stadium is utter tosh.

She also needs to lower her ticket prices. A lot of people are no longer willing to pay hundreds of pounds to see a 53 year old woman sing below standard material whilst preaching to them about politics and whatever platform she happens to be supporting at that time.There is nothing fun about her anymore. Her music is lifeless, her lyrics are laughable, her ideas are recycled. The woman that gave us songs like 'Express Yourself', 'Ray of Light' and 'Like a Prayer' is now a distant memory.

[Nyota]

Originally Posted by 50 Cent Rules

Madonna has never been this hated. I just wanted to know what has changed.

Fans of "rival" artists.

I think the whole thing is stupid. It's actually possible to like Madonna and Gaga and Britney and Katy and Rihanna...I will never understand fan wars. It's pathetic.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Nyota

Fans of "rival" artists.

I think the whole thing is stupid. It's actually possible to like Madonna and Gaga and Britney and Katy and Rihanna...I will never understand fan wars. It's pathetic.

Usaually pre teens and teens I would think.

[Nyota]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

Usaually pre teens and teens I would think.

I think they are generally quite young, yes. I couldn't imagine anyone who is over the age of about 21 behaving that way. I certainly don't want to!

Rival fan bases has always been a thing though. I remember the days of Blur vs Oasis, Britney vs Christina...it's been around a long time and won't go away. People grow out of it but there are always fresh batches of immature teens right around the corner to keep it going.

[ladymoanalot]

Originally Posted by Nyota

I think they are generally quite young, yes. I couldn't imagine anyone who is over the age of about 21 behaving that way. I certainly don't want to!

Rival fan bases has always been a thing though. I remember the days of Blur vs Oasis, Britney vs Christina...it's been around a long time and won't go away. People grow out of it but there are always fresh batches of immature teens right around the corner to keep it going.

I was staunchly Blur. I remeber listening to the charts that Sunday evening in anticipation. When Blur got the top spot I acted like I had won the lottery.

Fact was i like oasis to but I was a Blur girl!

[Nyota]

Originally Posted by ladymoanalot

I was staunchly Blur. I remeber listening to the charts that Sunday evening in anticipation. When Blur got the top spot I acted like I had won the lottery.

Fact was i like oasis to but I was a Blur girl!

I liked both. Wonderwall and Country House were like Shakespeare to my teenage self.

I also love both Britney and Christina, so was never able to pick a side there either.

I feel like I might have missed out on some kind of rite of passage by my total inability to get involved in fan wars!