[doom&gloom]

The main pleasure of murder mysteries is guessing who the killer is and this tends to be ruined when the killer is always a Nazi or a Capitalist Pig or both.

It seems to me that people like Sjowall and Wahloo, Henning Mankell and Stieg Larsson aren't actually interested in writing crime novels but rather in getting the Marxist message across to the masses.

Is this something that's encouraged on Swedish creative writing courses or is there a Marxist movement there concentrating on bringing about a Communist revolution through popular culture?

What a bizarre country Sweden is.

[*Sparkle*]

I haven't read all of those authors, but those that I have read - none have been Marxist. Unless you think that it is a Marxist plot to sully the previously good name of Nazis and corrupt business men by having them as baddies.

I wonder what were the secret political ambitions of Ian Fleming?

[the_lostprophet]

Originally Posted by *Sparkle*

I haven't read all of those authors, but those that I have read - none have been Marxist. Unless you think that it is a Marxist plot to sully the previously good name of Nazis and corrupt business men by having them as baddies.

You're misrepresenting the situation there. Who on earth in Britain of all places would think the Nazis have a good name? Maybe it's something that other countries are worried about but to a British mind it's not really a relevant concern, especially not in 2012 - let's stop fighting the battles of the mid 20th C shall we?

I actually agree with the OP that Nordic crime is far too headbangingly/hardcore leftist. It's the one thing I dislike about it; I had to stop reading Mankell for that reason. Nordic writers are often utterly obsessed with the far right and evil businessmen (who of course just happen to be of a centre right political persuasion). You admit yourself that they often put a businessman as the baddy - very interesting. So there is a political agenda in doing that then despite your sarcasm about a 'Marxist plot' and trying to pretend that Nordic crime writers are even-handed. It's so blatant as well unless maybe you support the Socialist Workers' Party here and then as a reader, you wouldn't notice it.

You just don't get this issue with British or American crime novels but then Scandinavia is hardcore socialist; not to mention the fact that they're very conformist countries whereas we value individualism.

[Elanor]

I like the social aspect of the Scandinavian crime novels that I've read. However, you may like Jo Nesbo, OP. I can't remember any political bits in the Harry Hole novels, they're pretty much just gripping thriller whodunnits.

[*Sparkle*]

Originally Posted by the_lostprophet

You admit yourself that they often put a businessman as the baddy - very interesting. So there is a political agenda in doing that then despite your sarcasm about a 'Marxist plot' and trying to pretend that Nordic crime writers are even-handed. It's so blatant as well unless maybe you support the Socialist Workers' Party here and then as a reader, you wouldn't notice it.

OK, if you think I must be a supporter of the Socialist Worker Party to not object to writers having bad guys as Nazis or dodgy businessmen, or that Scandanavians are "hardcore socialist", which you seem to disapprove of, then you probably shouldn't read their books.

But the OP did complain that the bad guys are sometimes Nazis. What's the problem with that? It's fiction. The bad guys are going to be portrayed as a bit more interesting and worth writing about than the typical prison in-mate.

What's wrong with bad guys sometimes being corrupt business men? Try reading "The Psychopath Test", and you'll see that some leading psychiatrists are of the belief that not all psychopaths are serial killers, but instead are attracted to the world of business where they run their own empires, damaging individual lives that way instead.

I find a lot of literature likes to paint the bad guy as a religious nutter. Some people may interpret that to mean that everyone with religious views is a nutter, but more often people just accept that some religious people might be nutters. Some dodgy business men go beyond normal dodgy business practices and are nutters, and as seem to agree on Nazis being a bad sort, there's nothing to see there either.

It's true that Scandanavia's politics tends to be to the left of us in the UK, and we in turn are to the left of the US. There are Americans who think we're all Marxists! There were even a few who thought the Muppets film (not made in Scandanavia) was a Marxist plot because it promoted environmental values and condemned the greedy, exploitative business man.

However, back in the real world, Scandanavian countries are not Marxist. There are plenty of private businesses and a strong sense of the value of the individual.

However, I've seen nothing to say that normal, decent business men and women are automatically bad guys.

Why do the Nordic writers need to be "even handed"? It's not an analysis of economic models. For every big businessman who is revealed to be dodgy, do you want some corrupt officials? I'm sure I've come across a few of them in my reading. There are definitely quite a few in the Millenium Trilogy.

What next, cat owners complaining about James Bond films not having enough dog owners as the baddie?

[ty webb]

I have also been reading Jo Nesbo's "Harry Hole" series(brilliant reading) and they are nowhere near as political as Stieg Larsson's trilogy, I enjoyed The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo but found the next 2 books a bit tedious and bogged down in politics.

[doom&gloom]

When I said Nazis and Capitalist Pigs I was speaking like a stereotypical Marxist would, they don't have to be literally Nazis, just right-wingers (though sometimes they are actual Nazis (in Larsson and Mankell's works they have been).

If you look at the biographies of the writers I've mentioned, some of the most important crime writers in Swedish history you'll see they are really far-left and have come out with ridiculous statements like Mankell's "What would Europe have been without Islamic culture? Nothing."

[ty webb]

Originally Posted by doom&gloom

When I said Nazis and Capitalist Pigs I was speaking like a stereotypical Marxist would, they don't have to be literally Nazis, just right-wingers (though sometimes they are actual Nazis (in Larsson and Mankell's works they have been).

If you look at the biographies of the writers I've mentioned, some of the most important crime writers in Swedish history you'll see they are really far-left and have come out with ridiculous statements like Mankell's "What would Europe have been without Islamic culture? Nothing."

I think you are worrying about nothing mate, personally I'm maybe right-of-centre politics wise but have enjoyed Henning Mankell's books, even more so the swedish tv Wallander adaptations on bbc4. I find that if a book or author really irks me I'll move onto something else. No big deal really

[trinity2002]

So what you actually meant to ask was if there were any Swedish crime authors that aren't less liberal and more to the right?

[doom&gloom]

Originally Posted by trinity2002

So what you actually meant to ask was if there were any Swedish crime authors that aren't less liberal and more to the right?

They're further left than that, they are/ were involved in far-left activism.

[ty webb]

Maybe some of these Authors have good reason to comment on the "far-right"? Maybe they are on the rise in Scandinavia i.e. Anders Brevik? Like i said it doesn't bother me, I'll move on and read something else if its not to my liking. Try Jo Nesbo's books Doom&Gloom, not political just great crime thrillers