[Meldrewman]

Originally Posted by 15 minutes

I was wondering if the twist would be that the head of anti corruption is actually the kingpin in corruption. Coincidence on the Scottish accent? But you'd think 'The King' sorry...Gates would know so it probably isn't him.

How the hell is Arnott going to get out of this with his hand in tact???

No, Adrian Dunbar's accent is Irish.

Spoiler

The guy on the phone is an actor/character we haven't seen yet - he appears in Episode 5.

[jimbo1962]

Norn' Irish, to be more precise, which is close to Scottish.

It seems to me that Gates hasnt done anything really bad and he still has time to redeem his actions in the latest episode, so Im thinking that old Tony is OK.

[MR. Macavity]

Originally Posted by 15 minutes

How the hell is Arnott going to get out of this with his hand in tact???

Well presumably Fleming will arrive with the cavalry in time once she's worked out how to switch Gate's computer on....

As others have said, after an excellent series I hope we do get a barn stormer of a final episode. I remember being left slightly disappointed by the conclusion of the otherwise superb Shadowline, but I still feel there's lots of different directions for this to go in.

Not bothered if there's a second series or not - I like one off dramas and any follow-ups can sometimes end up feeling contrived.

[JMinLondon]

Originally Posted by jimbo1962

Norn' Irish, to be more precise, which is close to Scottish.

It seems to me that Gates hasnt done anything really bad and he still has time to redeem his actions in the latest episode, so Im thinking that old Tony is OK.

Really !!!!
Apart from being involved with a money launderer, concealing the fact a woman was murdered, hiding evidence, being in league with drug dealers and murderers and luring a policeman to be tortured to death (as he would think).

But I do think he will redemm himself in some way.

[Bosox]

Originally Posted by JMinLondon

Really !!!!
Apart from being involved with a money launderer, concealing the fact a woman was murdered, hiding evidence, being in league with drug dealers and murderers and luring a policeman to be tortured to death (as he would think).

But I do think he will redemm himself in some way.

You can see how he got into all the other things and that his motivations were in many ways noble (ie to help his kids) but the last bit was clearly crossing a line. It's going to be difficult for him to redeem himself after being complicit in luring Arnott there.

[Andy-B]

Originally Posted by JMinLondon

Really !!!!
Apart from being involved with a money launderer, concealing the fact a woman was murdered, hiding evidence, being in league with drug dealers and murderers and luring a policeman to be tortured to death (as he would think).

I can't see how the gang gain anything from hurting Arnott given he doesn't actually have any evidence any other officer wouldn't find - this is surely about putting the 'frighteners' on him (well, actually it's the cliffhanger at the end of E4). Killing a two-bob street dealer is one thing ... Gates would know it's just about scaring Arnott.

Gates' journey is 'unfortunate': Jackie targeted him and pressed all the right sexual buttons, indebted him to her, called in the favour - and then he twigged it wasn't a hit and run. He even arrested her, but by then she'd exposed his Achilles Heel (his family).

We could climb up on a moral high horse about infidelity but, imo, he's where he is because of what he wanted for his kids (a happy family and a good school).

[Casmana]

No he's where he is because he got involved with Jackie again .... lust.!
Anything else is secondary.

[tealady]

Originally Posted by Bosox

You can see how he got into all the other things and that his motivations were in many ways noble (ie to help his kids)

Well, that's alright then!
Should have robbed a bank instead.

[tealady]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

We could climb up on a moral high horse about infidelity but, imo, he's where he is because of what he wanted for his kids (a happy family and a good school).

No need for the morality (though in itself is enough); the infidelity gave Jackie the leverage she needed over him.

[kazzabeee]

Post 379 - Couldn't you have used the spoiler tag? You've just ruined the anticipation. Spoilsport!

[Meldrewman]

Originally Posted by kazzabeee

Post 379 - Couldn't you have used the spoiler tag? You've just ruined the anticipation. Spoilsport!

I wasn't sure whether #379 was serious or joking - given that the image could have come from a previous episode - but I agree.

I was reprimanded (probably justly) for identifying the voice on the phone - I wasn't trying to spoil - just got carried away after a nice bit of detective work!

[sian2011]

Have to say this program has been the highlight of my TV viewing year so far!! Nearly missed it but thanks to collegue who told me about it I caught up with it being repeated.

Can't think why they hid it on BBC2 but so glad I found it! I'm for once stumped about who's behind what and unusually for me I'm enjoying not knowing!!! I still find myself sympathetic with Gates and I really don't know why!! I do find Arnott and Kate unlikeable which might be why I'm still routing for Gates to redeem himself (unlikely I know !).

[catsitter]

We don't actually know whether the story that Gates told Fleming about his relationship with Jackie is actually the truth, do we? He told his wife that he met Jackie through his work (yes, I know he missed out the fact that they had an affair), and he told Fleming that Jackie was the estate agent who sold him a house (or was it a flat?) and that she chased after him etc but I don't think we can be sure which, if either, is true, or have I forgotten something that proves it?

[JeffG1]

Originally Posted by Meldrewman

I was reprimanded (probably justly) for identifying the voice on the phone - I wasn't trying to spoil - just got carried away after a nice bit of detective work!

That would have been me, then . I never thought it was done deliberately - just without thinking it through.

It's always risky going to IMDB before the event, if you really don't want to know what's going to happen.

[Meldrewman]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

That would have been me, then . I never thought it was done deliberately - just without thinking it through.

It's always risky going to IMDB before the event, if you really don't want to know what's going to happen.

I always avoid iMDB and Digiguide!

I was fairly safe this time because I looked for the actor rather than the programme - then was so impressed with myself for finding him that I completely forgot the tags!!!

You can safely read my future posts - once told ....

[kazzabeee]

Originally Posted by sian2011

Have to say this program has been the highlight of my TV viewing year so far!! Nearly missed it but thanks to collegue who told me about it I caught up with it being repeated.

Can't think why they hid it on BBC2 but so glad I found it! I'm for once stumped about who's behind what and unusually for me I'm enjoying not knowing!!! I still find myself sympathetic with Gates and I really don't know why!! I do find Arnott and Kate unlikeable which might be why I'm still routing for Gates to redeem himself (unlikely I know !).

I was rooting for Gates to come clean until the baddies got hold of Arnott. Not sure he can redeem himself now. Can't wait for next week's final episode!!!

[kazzabeee]

Originally Posted by catsitter

We don't actually know whether the story that Gates told Fleming about his relationship with Jackie is actually the truth, do we? He told his wife that he met Jackie through his work (yes, I know he missed out the fact that they had an affair), and he told Fleming that Jackie was the estate agent who sold him a house (or was it a flat?) and that she chased after him etc but I don't think we can be sure which, if either, is true, or have I forgotten something that proves it?

Didn't Gates tell someone that he had been engaged to Jackie but she left him for a millionaire?

[catsitter]

I think that was part of the story he told Fleming, or was it what he told the senior police? but don't know whether it was true or not.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by kazzabeee

Didn't Gates tell someone that he had been engaged to Jackie but she left him for a millionaire?

Pretty sure he mentioned her running off with a millionaire in conversation with Jackie before.
Seems like she was a scheming money hungry type from the get go and deliberately got back in touch with Gates to use him.
Nothing like having a 'tame' copper on staff.
Hence all that nonsense with the hit n run story, playing the poor frightened confused woman, paying the school fees behind his back, he must have thought she was being generous, trying to buy his company.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by Andy-B

I can't see how the gang gain anything from hurting Arnott given he doesn't actually have any evidence any other officer wouldn't find - this is surely about putting the 'frighteners' on him (well, actually it's the cliffhanger at the end of E4). Killing a two-bob street dealer is one thing ... Gates would know it's just about scaring Arnott.

Gates' journey is 'unfortunate': Jackie targeted him and pressed all the right sexual buttons, indebted him to her, called in the favour - and then he twigged it wasn't a hit and run. He even arrested her, but by then she'd exposed his Achilles Heel (his family).

We could climb up on a moral high horse about infidelity but, imo, he's where he is because of what he wanted for his kids (a happy family and a good school).

How do the gang know how much information Arnott's got, Gates doesn't know and we don't know either.
Once they know what Arnott knows they can clean up the evidence and go to ground or start up again elsewhere.

Why just put the frighteners on him, why not kill him, if they clean their tracks properly.

[lizii]

Originally Posted by Prince Monalulu

Pretty sure he mentioned her running off with a millionaire in conversation with Jackie before.
Seems like she was a scheming money hungry type from the get go and deliberately got back in touch with Gates to use him.Nothing like having a 'tame' copper on staff.
Hence all that nonsense with the hit n run story, playing the poor frightened confused woman, paying the school fees behind his back, he must have thought she was being generous, trying to buy his company.

*shuts eyes and covers ears*

I must just say that Gates was not the innocent amongst all this! He knew what Jackie was capable of; as we've said she cancelled their engagement and ran off with a millionaire with very little notice the first time round, completely took him by suprise. He would surely have realised that there was more to her paying those fees than her just wanting to be helpful; that she was capable of manipulation and that it was dangerous to trust her. He became involved with her again knowing all this, because he just couldn't help himself - he was still fascinated with her. I think it's quite poignant that we've not seen anything like the chemistry between those two, between Gates and his wife. Gates clearly loves his wife , yet both actors play their relationship in a way that conveys that there is something missing - don't forget that Jackie was the woman he loved and wanted to marry first before he met his current wife. There's almost a hint that he settled for a nice steady relationship lacking passion , which is something his character clearly thrives off, to avoid similar pain.

Anyway as sorry as I'm beginning to feel for Gates, he has brought it on himself. And I really don't mean to get on the moral high horse re. infidelity, but if he loved and respected his family so much , valued them above his drive and desire - really? Would he really be making love to Jackie at every possible opportunity? She was fairly irresistable IMO.... but even so

[barnsleykeith]

Some of us were wondering how the cops could change their statements about what happened when they shot the wrong guy.

Watching Episode 1 again. The Coroner adjourned the inquest for six weeks - to allow all relevant evidence and statements to be put together. So the cops who stormed the wrong house haven't put their statements into evidence yet. This is how they can ''revisit'' their versions and alter them if they wish. Under pressure from dodgy Osborne of course.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by lizii

*shuts eyes and covers ears*

I must just say that Gates was not the innocent amongst all this! He knew what Jackie was capable of; as we've said she cancelled their engagement and ran off with a millionaire with very little notice the first time round, completely took him by suprise.
He would surely have realised that there was more to her paying those fees than her just wanting to be helpful; that she was capable of manipulation and that it was dangerous to trust her.
He became involved with her again knowing all this, because he just couldn't help himself - he was still fascinated with her. I think it's quite poignant that we've not seen anything like the chemistry between those two, between Gates and his wife. Gates clearly loves his wife , yet both actors play their relationship in a way that conveys that there is something missing - don't forget that Jackie was the woman he loved and wanted to marry first before he met his current wife. There's almost a hint that he settled for a nice steady relationship lacking passion , which is something his character clearly thrives off, to avoid similar pain.

Anyway as sorry as I'm beginning to feel for Gates, he has brought it on himself. And I really don't mean to get on the moral high horse re. infidelity, but if he loved and respected his family so much , valued them above his drive and desire - really? Would he really be making love to Jackie at every possible opportunity? She was fairly irresistable IMO.... but even so

BIB Dangerous, not to be trusted etc.
What do you base that on, the fact that she ran off to marry a millionaire instead of Gates?
It's a bit of leap from choosing the rich bloke over the poor bloke, to money laundering and vehicular murder and playing Gates like a stringed instrument.

As for the rest of the emotional stuff, I don't see it, but it's open to interpretation.

[Prince Monalulu]

Originally Posted by barnsleykeith

Some of us were wondering how the cops could change their statements about what happened when they shot the wrong guy.

Watching Episode 1 again. The Coroner adjourned the inquest for six weeks - to allow all relevant evidence and statements to be put together. So the cops who stormed the wrong house haven't put their statements into evidence yet. This is how they can ''revisit'' their versions and alter them if they wish. Under pressure from dodgy Osborne of course.

I didn't even listen to any of that business, just let it leak straight out of my brain, don't care
That said it now sounds interesting that they can change their statements yet again after being coached in the first instance anyway.

[striing]

Originally Posted by JMinLondon

Another great episode and great acting from Neil Morrissey too I thought.
Please please please have a great final episode - would hate it to have a 'well what was that all about' ending.

My thoughts exactly. Good acting all round this week (loved the scene where Nige was getting questioned, no commented and got told to piss off when the tape was turned off ) and I'm hoping it holds up.

Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro

No, I'm sure he didn't. Dot just said it was OK to go early - I felt he was taking his cue from Arnott and Hastings to remove the blame from himself and give them something else with to go after Gates.

Yes I thought he was trying to make sure he kept his job. He was set up as bit flaky and unreliable with his past issues. Maybe Gates just kept him on so he'd be beholden to him and now it's come back to haunt him.

Originally Posted by lizii

how on earth does everyone know that Jackie is actually dead?

I read this as how do we (the audience) know and was going to say um... the body in the freezer...and then I realised you mean the other characters!