[SofaRosa]

During an interview with shortlist, Ben Drew wears a Skrewdriver tee. Skrewdriver being an atrocious -musically and morally- nazi supporting band from the 70s/80s.

http://brianwhelan.net/post/27728099...o-nazi-t-shirt

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/cu...-bands-t-shirt

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainme...bout-real-life

Now, as a Plan B fan I can't believe that he didn't know who they were.-he's clued up musically.Is he making a statement?
There's a stereotypical sounding nazi character in Ill Manors and we have seen the rise of the far right in this country,

However, you really cannot be subtle/ambiguous with irony where fascism is concerned-it's way too dangerous for that.
Wtf was he thinking??

[OnDatKryptonite]

Maybe he likes their music and doesn't give a crap about their political leanings.

I like The Smiths but I am not an avid gay rights campaigner.

I love Slayer's Reign In Blood album but I do not endorse eugenics or anti-semitism.

I enjoy Public Enemy but do not actively march for black equality and rights.

Liking someone's music doesn't mean endorsing or replicating their beliefs of lifestyles.

[SofaRosa]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

Maybe he likes their music and doesn't give a crap about their political leanings.

I like The Smiths but I am not an avid gay rights campaigner.

I love Slayer's Reign In Blood album but I do not endorse eugenics or anti-semitism.

I enjoy Public Enemy but do not actively march for black equality and rights.

Liking someone's music doesn't mean endorsing or replicating their beliefs of lifestyles.

Errr Skrewdrivers' lyrics are racist/violent...

The Smiths' didn't sing exclusively about 'gay rights' or vegetarianism...
Lyrics mean a lot to Ben Drew...how can anyone possibly 'like' music which sings about the hateful crap they did/do?

You cannot possibly listen to a band like Skrewdriver without endorsing what they stand for-nothing to do with 'political leanings' -these guys were violent racist thugs. Facism kills....

[embryo]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

Maybe he likes their music and doesn't give a crap about their political leanings.

I like The Smiths but I am not an avid gay rights campaigner.

I love Slayer's Reign In Blood album but I do not endorse eugenics or anti-semitism.

I enjoy Public Enemy but do not actively march for black equality and rights.

Liking someone's music doesn't mean endorsing or replicating their beliefs of lifestyles.

The problem with Skrewdriver is that their political leanings are unavoidable when listening to their music. I agree that you can enjoy the art without liking the artist - Burzum, for example, is a racist murderer, but his personal beliefs are never expressed in his music or lyrics, which usually concern nature or fantasy. This makes it a lot easier to separate the art from the artist, and enjoy the music without supporting the personal views of the man behind them. Skrewdriver, however, have released countless songs in support of white power, making their beliefs a lot harder to ignore when listening to them.

I find your examples a little odd, to say the least. Slayer are not anti-semitic or in support of eugenics, and nor are the songs. I suspect you are referring to 'Angel of Death', which merely details the horrific events of the Holocaust - never do the lyrics say that it was a great idea. They even describe it as 'sickening' at one point in the song.

As for The Smiths and Public Enemy, they both have plenty of songs about subjects other than gay rights and black equality - The Smiths in particular do not have a great deal of songs focusing on homosexuality. Also, the fact that you do not actively march for gay rights or black equality does not necessarily mean you are actively against them. I don't actively march for black equality, but I certainly do not oppose it, and I respect Public Enemy for speaking out about it. That is very different from Skrewdriver, who speak out for something I find repulsive, and that I would hope you do too.

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by embryo

The problem with Skrewdriver is that their political leanings are unavoidable when listening to their music. I agree that you can enjoy the art without liking the artist - Burzum, for example, is a racist murderer, but his personal beliefs are never expressed in his music or lyrics, which usually concern nature or fantasy. This makes it a lot easier to separate the art from the artist, and enjoy the music without supporting the personal views of the man behind them. Skrewdriver, however, have released countless songs in support of white power, making their beliefs a lot harder to ignore when listening to them.

I find your examples a little odd, to say the least. Slayer are not anti-semitic or in support of eugenics, and nor are the songs. I suspect you are referring to 'Angel of Death', which merely details the horrific events of the Holocaust - never do the lyrics say that it was a great idea. They even describe it as 'sickening' at one point in the song.

As for The Smiths and Public Enemy, they both have plenty of songs about subjects other than gay rights and black equality - The Smiths in particular do not have a great deal of songs focusing on homosexuality. Also, the fact that you do not actively march for gay rights or black equality does not necessarily mean you are actively against them. I don't actively march for black equality, but I certainly do not oppose it, and I respect Public Enemy for speaking out about it. That is very different from Skrewdriver, who speak out for something I find repulsive, and that I would hope you do too.

Lemmy owns more Nazi memorabilia than almost anyone on Earth. Does he endorse Nazism? No. He just likes the eagles an spikes and craftsmanship and has declared "racism's a bunch of stupid s--t , I've had black girls, white girls, Asian, Malaysian..."

So, once again, I am of the view you can like something by someone and not support their personal beliefs by doing so. I like Bad Religion, their logo is a cross with a censored circle over it but I am not going out and burning down churches am I? No, because my choice in fashion has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. Sometimes a T shirt is honestly just something you wear, not something that espouses deeply held personal beliefs.

One of my favourite T shirts is from DJTees and features Morrissey. However I am not gay, I eat meat regularly and only like his songs because he's an increasingly ornery and antagonistic guy detached from common society. Liking someone's work and liking them is another issue.

[Steve35]

http://thequietus.com/articles/09423...sunderstanding

[vauxhall1964]

Originally Posted by SofaRosa

Errr Skrewdrivers' lyrics are racist/violent...

The Smiths' didn't sing exclusively about 'gay rights' or vegetarianism...
Lyrics mean a lot to Ben Drew...how can anyone possibly 'like' music which sings about the hateful crap they did/do?

You cannot possibly listen to a band like Skrewdriver without endorsing what they stand for-nothing to do with 'political leanings' -these guys were violent racist thugs. Facism kills....

Er, the Smiths never once that I'm aware of sung about 'gay rights' (it was Morrissey doing the singing and as he's never 'come out' he's hardly likely to sing about gay rights)

[embryo]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

Lemmy owns more Nazi memorabilia than almost anyone on Earth. Does he endorse Nazism? No. He just likes the eagles an spikes and craftsmanship and has declared "racism's a bunch of stupid s--t , I've had black girls, white girls, Asian, Malaysian..."

So, once again, I am of the view you can like something by someone and not support their personal beliefs by doing so. I like Bad Religion, their logo is a cross with a censored circle over it but I am not going out and burning down churches am I? No, because my choice in fashion has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. Sometimes a T shirt is honestly just something you wear, not something that espouses deeply held personal beliefs.

One of my favourite T shirts is from DJTees and features Morrissey. However I am not gay, I eat meat regularly and only like his songs because he's an increasingly ornery and antagonistic guy detached from common society. Liking someone's work and liking them is another issue.

I've already said you can like the art and not the artist so there is no need to explain that to me. However, as I have already said, the situation is different with Skrewdriver because their music is inextricably linked to their personal beliefs - you cannot listen to a Skrewdriver song and overlook the fact that they actively encourage racism and hatred, because the majority of their songs are specifically about their racist views. To me, racism is a lot harder to stomach than a song about homosexuality or vegetarianism, but maybe you feel differently.

Coming back to the fashion side of things, even if you do genuinely like Skrewdriver's music yet do not support the views clearly expressed in their songs, wearing a T-shirt with the band's name printed on it implies that you support the band and/or their music. Skrewdriver's name is inextricably associated with their disgusting views, because they used their music and their live shows to promote their message and attempt to invoke racial hatred. Therefore, wearing a T-shirt with Skrewdriver's name on it is completely inappropriate because of what it represents - they are known to be intolerant bigots, to make racist music and to have a violent and prejudiced fanbase. Bad Religion may have a controversial logo, but that is not comparable to Skrewdriver. Bad Religion do not actively encourage hatred of any kind, in their music or otherwise, and you know as well as I do that they would never condone 'burning churches' or any other act of violence or prejudice. The same cannot be said for Skrewdriver.

I don't believe for a moment that Plan B is a Skrewdriver fan or would want to promote them, and since he has apologised for wearing the T-shirt it is safe to assume that he does not support their beliefs. If he had known of them though, wearing the T-shirt would have been wrong, regardless of whether or not he agrees with their views. It may well be just 'something you wear', but there are some things that really shouldn't be made into a fashion statement, a bunch of violent racists being one of them.

[walterwhite]

He has apologised and said he didn't realise who they were. Seems fair enough to me.

[SillyBoyBlue]

Originally Posted by walterwhite

He has apologised and said he didn't realise who they were. Seems fair enough to me.

Like all those posers wearing Ramones t-shirts who can't name one Ramones song. Sad.

[Tal'shiar]

He just liked the picture it seemed and had never heard of the band. In all fairness, not everyone would know who they are and what they are all about (or the fact they actually started off as a non-racist band and then changed with time and influence). Although it is surprising that he never thought to do a quick google to see who they were. Even just to have a listen in case you like them. And no one who is in his life suggested he check them out first.

Not really a news story as he clearly had no clue as to what it was all about. Now if he had known and started talking some racist smack, then it would be a news story (barely)

[ShaunIOW]

I like some of Skrewdrivers music but don't agree with their politics, but not all their stuff is racist - look for their version of Green Fields Of France for a very sad and poignant track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhIFPvZpLZI it's been done by a few people and is an old poem, but their's was the first version I heard and I still like it the best.

[Adamsk]

I think the media got all wrong again.

He said he did not known who they were not even I know them.

Sid use to go around with Nazie t shirt but It was for shock value.

The same way the English press trashed polish football recently but they were just looking at the hooligans not the polish people.

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by walterwhite

He has apologised and said he didn't realise who they were. Seems fair enough to me.

Yes. He doesn't seem particularly intelligent.

[robo2]

Originally Posted by Glengavel

Yes. He doesn't seem particularly intelligent.

his acting, directing, scriptwriting + songwriting would suggest he is more intelligent than 99.9% of musicians around at the moment, its hardly even a story, guy who likes rap music doesn't know who obscure nazi pnk band are - not really that surprising

[Glengavel]

Originally Posted by robo2

his acting, directing, scriptwriting + songwriting would suggest he is more intelligent than 99.9% of musicians around at the moment

Aye, right.

[cockneykid1962]

Always had him down as a fake, and this does nothing to disprove that. This years flavour, next year's make-over.

And as for some of the comments on here regarding being able to separate a band's music from their quite obvious repugnant political ideology, no wonder the EDL have a stronger presence than ever before...in all my years on this forum I have treated it as a bit of light-hearted banter, but this goes into very dangerous waters...

[OnDatKryptonite]

Originally Posted by Tal'shiar

He just liked the picture it seemed and had never heard of the band. In all fairness, not everyone would know who they are and what they are all about (or the fact they actually started off as a non-racist band and then changed with time and influence). Although it is surprising that he never thought to do a quick google to see who they were. Even just to have a listen in case you like them. And no one who is in his life suggested he check them out first.

Not really a news story as he clearly had no clue as to what it was all about. Now if he had known and started talking some racist smack, then it would be a news story (barely)

It wasn't even a Skrewdriver T Shirt, it was a shirt with some graffiti of Skrewdriver in the back ground while a punk stood in front of a wall. Just people looking for trouble where there was none worth the attention.

[cockneykid1962]

Originally Posted by OnDatKryptonite

It wasn't even a Skrewdriver T Shirt, it was a shirt with some graffiti of Skrewdriver in the back ground while a punk stood in front of a wall. Just people looking for trouble where there was none worth the attention.

A moot point, perhaps. It may not be actively promoting the band itself, but merely having the name blazed across it is enough for me, I'm afraid.

I'm old enough to remember how violent, sinister and threatening their 'fans' were in the band's heyday and everything which is associated and attributed to them. If he genuinely doesn't know who the band are and what they stand for, then he obviously isn't as 'sussed' about 'life in da ghetto' as he makes out. Ask anyone 'hip' in east London and they will tell you EXACTLY who they are and what they represent. Ignorance should be no excuse when it comes to matters like this.

The guy's a phoney anyway, so it will all blow over in about six months...

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by Glengavel

Yes. He doesn't seem particularly intelligent.

He liked the t-shirt so wore it, do you research everything on every t-shirt you buy?

[cockneykid1962]

Originally Posted by walterwhite

He liked the t-shirt so wore it, do you research everything on every t-shirt you buy?

The problem here is, that the guy is going on about skinhead sub-culture mythology as if he knows what he is talking about...how some of them were 'mis-understood' back in the early 1980s, and they were standing up for their beliefs, blah blah blah...linking it back to last summer's riots. The interview can be found anywhere online so judge for yourself.

He is desperately trying to appear knowledgeable about something he frankly hasn't the first clue about. If he knew anything about skinhead culture from that period, he would know about the influence of Skrewdriver, their political beliefs and those of their fans.

To pose with a T.Shirt emblazoned with their name (and I am quite aware of where this image has come from, as I bought the book some twenty years ago, long before this chancer saw it as a marketing opportunity), brandishing a blazing flare as if it were a dangerous 'call to arms' speaks volumes of his utter naivety and ignorance of recent social history.

So far he has appropriated a retro soul music stance, bigged himself up as a hip hop artist, now is 'down' with skinhead culture. I eagerly await which bandwagon he will attach himself to next...

[robo2]

Originally Posted by cockneykid1962

The problem here is, that the guy is going on about skinhead sub-culture mythology as if he knows what he is talking about...how some of them were 'mis-understood' back in the early 1980s, and they were standing up for their beliefs, blah blah blah...linking it back to last summer's riots. The interview can be found anywhere online so judge for yourself.

He is desperately trying to appear knowledgeable about something he frankly hasn't the first clue about. If he knew anything about skinhead culture from that period, he would know about the influence of Skrewdriver, their political beliefs and those of their fans.

To pose with a T.Shirt emblazoned with their name (and I am quite aware of where this image has come from, as I bought the book some twenty years ago, long before this chancer saw it as a marketing opportunity), brandishing a blazing flare as if it were a dangerous 'call to arms' speaks volumes of his utter naivety and ignorance of recent social history.

So far he has appropriated a retro soul music stance, bigged himself up as a hip hop artist, now is 'down' with skinhead culture. I eagerly await which bandwagon he will attach himself to next...

initial skinhead culture was for people who were into reggae and ska and had nothing to do with racism

you can hardly blame a 28 year old for not reading the book 20 years ago and for not knowing who skrewdriver are after all they are a very obscure punk band who are airbrushed out of history due to their nazi leanings and as for appropriating retro soul - he is no different to amy winehouse, adele or any other british artist, are those all fake as well?

[cockneykid1962]

Originally Posted by robo2

initial skinhead culture was for people who were into reggae and ska and had nothing to do with racism

Absolutely.

Some of the second wave of skinheads, who followed the 'Oi!' movement, were a very different breed, ideology and musically-wise.

It would appear that Pan B sees himself as the 'voice of a generation' without having all the necessary credentials to back up that position.

[robo2]

Originally Posted by cockneykid1962

Absolutely.

Some of the second wave of skinheads, who followed the 'Oi!' movement, were a very different breed, ideology and musically-wise.

It would appear that Pan B sees himself as the 'voice of a generation' without having all the necessary credentials to back up that position.

to be fair to him, what he was trying to achieve with the t-shirt is the same message in his self penned album and his film which he created and directed - youth being unfairly stereotyped, i think maybe his age and location has a lot to do with no knowing who skrewdriver are, you are more likely to know who they are if you are over 30 and don't come from london

[JohnnyForget]

Originally Posted by robo2

initial skinhead culture was for people who were into reggae and ska and had nothing to do with racism

Not entirely true. The first skinheads (late sixties/early seventies) were "selectively racist". While they embraced ska and reggae and were not racist towards Afro-Caribbean people, one of their favourite pastimes was what they termed P*ki-bashing, i.e. beating up Asian people, which I suggest did make them somewhat racist,