[thenetworkbabe]

Originally Posted by Phil 2804

You have to wonder. Lamont only went after the ERM disaster led to the biggest deficit in peacetime history.

He's failed as a party strategist and he's failed as Chancellor.

What's it going to take? A credit downgrade?

He has Just been on ITV news telling us that it could be worse and is elsewhere..........

[Phil 2804]

Originally Posted by wallster

The chancellor should now start preparing real cuts in public expenditure to allow for tax cuts for all of us. That is the way to stimulate the economy - but unfortunately he can't do that because of the Lib Dems

What cuts do you propose then? How many jobs and what % or salaries. How much do you propose to shave off old age pensions and how many teachers are you going to sack. You think its just the Lib Dems or do you think its the electorate.

The total taxation rate of the UK is 37.7% of GDP. That is already close to a post WW2 low and its barely been much lower in our history. If those tax cuts haven't work what makes you think more will do the trick.

There has already been a sizeable cut in the rate of income tax in part thanks to the Lib Dems wish for a £10,000 tax free allowance. Yet that has had no effect? The reason? Below inflation wage growth for half a decade now, and possible another half decade to come. All that tax cut has done is allowed people to stand still. Nothing more.

Yet on here you condemn anyone who asks for a pay rise or bonus particularly if decide to use industrial action to press their case. You even cited a failed business that paid above NMW as justification for more wage cuts.

Either you are super rich and therefore don't understand what effect long term wage deflation has on people and an economy or you are stupid.

The economy is in a mess because business does not have the confidence to invest the £700 billion cash pile UK PLC is sitting on in new jobs and infrastructure development. A large part of the reason for that is that they don't have confidence in the idiot residing in No. 11 Downing Street.

The man is a joke, he's failed on almost every task he set himself.

[flobadob]

Originally Posted by wallster

Unemployment is falling anyway due to the rise in private sector jobs. The fact is that we haven't really cut that much. Public expenditure is higher now than it was a year ago. Still the cuts myth goes on...

Largely due to part-time jobs being created, which means that these people will probably not be paying income tax and will probably be getting working tax credit, which is just a fancy name for benefits.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe

He has Just been on ITV news telling us that it could be worse and is elsewhere..........

I think we're the only G20 country to go back into recession.

[Nick1966]

Originally Posted by Phil 2804

What cuts do you propose then? .

How about:

• Raising the age of the basic state pension to 70 by 2022
• Introducing some NHS overnight / GP charges (means tested)
• Increase VAT to 22%
• Public sector pay cuts for those earning over £40,000

?

[PLAN9FAN]

The fact that so much money is being wasted and the amount of decent jobs is slowly being eroded makes it even more of a joke that they are increasing the pension age and you want it to rise to 70?

People having to work longer makes it difficult for others to get further up the career ladder. There aren't enough jobs now with the pension age being what it is? Plus people who are losing their jobs at 50+ are finding it hard enough to get employment now. How hard will it be when they are made redundant when they're 65 with another 5 years to go before they can receive the state pension?

VAT is too high as it is. Its one of the main things that is limiting small businesses from expanding and is a huge cost for them.

I agree that there may be room for public sector pay cuts but mainly for council leaders who decide to pay themselves more then then Prime Minister who have a huge sense of self-entitlement. Plus all the other quango chiefs and civil servants who are paid £80,000 plus per annum.

[tasker]

Why do the Labour party think that :

a) we are the only country in the world in a recession? wake up idiots the whole planet is

b) they are the only party on the whole planet that has a way out of it better known as bugger the economy and spend spend spend

c) constantly shout, moan and tell the world how they can fix everything. you are in a huge way too blame for this bloody mess it was oh yeh on your watch regardless of how much you try to deny it and a majority of the labour party should be held up to answer a lot of serious questions on their dealings regarding the banking crisis.

However it seems the Blair way of politics still goes on in the party namely

"look over there while we blame the government"

and we can run away in the other direction, get some policies that actually are meaningful and maybe just maybe we will talk.

Either way i would never vote for a very poor Dickie Davies tribute act.

[gummy mummy]

Originally Posted by PLAN9FAN

The fact that so much money is being wasted and the amount of decent jobs is slowly being eroded makes it even more of a joke that they are increasing the pension age and you want it to rise to 70?

People having to work longer makes it difficult for others to get further up the career ladder.

Exactly!!

Originally Posted by PLAN9FAN

There aren't enough jobs now with the pension age being what it is? Plus people who are losing their jobs at 50+ are finding it hard enough to get employment now. How hard will it be when they are made redundant when they're 65 with another 5 years to go before they can receive the state pension?

It was exactly the same in the 1980's and 90's the over 50 had no chance of getting a job, even skilled and semi skilled workers couldn't get work It was only the introduction of the New Deal 50+ scheme introduced by Labour in 2000 that helped the over 50's to get back into work.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by PLAN9FAN

The fact that so much money is being wasted and the amount of decent jobs is slowly being eroded makes it even more of a joke that they are increasing the pension age and you want it to rise to 70?

People having to work longer makes it difficult for others to get further up the career ladder. There aren't enough jobs now with the pension age being what it is? Plus people who are losing their jobs at 50+ are finding it hard enough to get employment now. How hard will it be when they are made redundant when they're 65 with another 5 years to go before they can receive the state pension?

VAT is too high as it is. Its one of the main things that is limiting small businesses from expanding and is a huge cost for them.

I agree that there may be room for public sector pay cuts but mainly for council leaders who decide to pay themselves more then then Prime Minister who have a huge sense of self-entitlement. Plus all the other quango chiefs and civil servants who are paid £80,000 plus per annum.

That's the Cameron-Osborne 'kakistocracy' a 'T'. A sense of entitlement has a habit of coming with privilege though I share your sentiments re-the highest eschelons of local government. I just hope local authorities are busting their guts avoiding down-the-line compulsory redundancies. Then Durham City Council did following the recession of the early 1990s, when the then Conservative government was running a budget deficit of 9% of GDP.

That said, City of Durham, of today, is not an unemployment blackspot (3%) though the high street is struggling

[PLAN9FAN]

Dave Hawk - my feeling is that the High Street in its current form is a dead duck.

Internet shopping is getting more and more popular whilst councils continually increase parking charges. People are seeing through this and deciding that its better to either get most things online or go to an out-of-town supermarket.

Theres so many advantages internet shopping has over the high street shop, and most of them are suffering from lack of custom and high business rates imposed by, yes, yet again the local councils!

The problem is that working in a shop is one of the main '1st jobs' out there! I can't see things getting better sadly - at the end of they day, distribution centres run by firms like Amazon and the increase in delivery drivers caused by Internet shopping will not offset the loss of jobs in the High Street.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by PLAN9FAN

Dave Hawk - my feeling is that the High Street in its current form is a dead duck.

Internet shopping is getting more and more popular whilst councils continually increase parking charges. People are seeing through this and deciding that its better to either get most things online or go to an out-of-town supermarket.

Theres so many advantages internet shopping has over the high street shop, and most of them are suffering from lack of custom and high business rates imposed by, yes, yet again the local councils!

The problem is that working in a shop is one of the main '1st jobs' out there! I can't see things getting better sadly - at the end of they day, distribution centres run by firms like Amazon and the increase in delivery drivers caused by Internet shopping will not offset the loss of jobs in the High Street.

I think you're right. Though I rarely get beyond the High Street and try to support it as far as I can. I, rarely, buy online. Ink cartridges for my printer is my main online purchase but whatever I buy I'm supporting somebody in work some place. But that's true of all who consume private sector goods and services

Durham (city that is) has two major retail parks - Arnison Centre (Pity Me) and Dragonville (Gilesgate Moor)

[flobadob]

Originally Posted by tasker

Why do the Labour party think that :

a) we are the only country in the world in a recession? wake up idiots the whole planet is

b) they are the only party on the whole planet that has a way out of it better known as bugger the economy and spend spend spend

c) constantly shout, moan and tell the world how they can fix everything. you are in a huge way too blame for this bloody mess it was oh yeh on your watch regardless of how much you try to deny it and a majority of the labour party should be held up to answer a lot of serious questions on their dealings regarding the banking crisis.

However it seems the Blair way of politics still goes on in the party namely

"look over there while we blame the government"

and we can run away in the other direction, get some policies that actually are meaningful and maybe just maybe we will talk.

Either way i would never vote for a very poor Dickie Davies tribute act.

Actually Labour's economic policy at the moment is virtually identical to the Conservative one. This is what makes it so difficult for Miliband to attack the government, because he would do nothing different.
There's nothing wrong with spending, but unfortunately Labour is so afraid of upsetting people by talking about increasing income tax that those in the Labour Party who do support increased spending believe it can be done through borrowing or by taxing a few millionaires. Look at the successful economies of northern Europe - Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany. They have levels of tax (and that's tax for everyone, not just someone else) that would make people in Britain wince, but they end up with great infrastructure, an educated population, competitive industries and a better standard of life.
It may be that people in Britain really are happy with paying virtually the lowest taxes in Europe on the one hand, but on the other hand having unaffordable nursery care, the most expensive tertiary education, virtually non-existent public housing, and an economy that crashes from boom to bust with depressing regularity.
But I think the Labour Party should offer and explain an alternative. It's pointless having economic policies identical to the Conservatives, because then people get no choice.
And it is just possible that the voters would go for the higher taxes/more public spending model. It is successful in other countries, and the British public may not be that short sighted after all. But we'll never know until Labour actually puts an alternative to the voters, will we?

[Puterkid]

If we had a VAT 'holiday' for three months, that would kickstart the economy.

This government is determined to see us sink further and further into recession, and cares not that millions are being put into hardship as a result.

[Puterkid]

Originally Posted by flobadob

Actually Labour's economic policy at the moment is virtually identical to the Conservative one. This is what makes it so difficult for Miliband to attack the government, because he would do nothing different.
There's nothing wrong with spending, but unfortunately Labour is so afraid of upsetting people by talking about increasing income tax that those in the Labour Party who do support increased spending believe it can be done through borrowing or by taxing a few millionaires. Look at the successful economies of northern Europe - Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany. They have levels of tax (and that's tax for everyone, not just someone else) that would make people in Britain wince, but they end up with great infrastructure, an educated population, competitive industries and a better standard of life.
It may be that people in Britain really are happy with paying virtually the lowest taxes in Europe on the one hand, but on the other hand having unaffordable nursery care, the most expensive tertiary education, virtually non-existent public housing, and an economy that crashes from boom to bust with depressing regularity.
But I think the Labour Party should offer and explain an alternative. It's pointless having economic policies identical to the Conservatives, because then people get no choice.
And it is just possible that the voters would go for the higher taxes/more public spending model. It is successful in other countries, and the British public may not be that short sighted after all. But we'll never know until Labour actually puts an alternative to the voters, will we?

Agree a lot!

[Tassium]

The public will blame the current government for the economic situation more and more with each passing year.

After 5 years in power and cuts cuts cuts (including cuts to the tax that the rich pay) there is no way that Labour will be blamed for the total failure.

That's just reality.

[flobadob]

Originally Posted by Tassium

The public will blame the current government for the economic situation more and more with each passing year.

After 5 years in power and cuts cuts cuts (including cuts to the tax that the rich pay) there is no way that Labour will be blamed for the total failure.

That's just reality.

And then a Labour government will be elected, but it will almost certainly pursue the same policies as the Tories. But at least we'll have some new slogans and new logos.
And Tony Blair (who was recently in the Telegraph speaking out against banking regulation) will probably be back in it.
By the by, Berlusconi wants to run in Italy again. It's like all the fruit loops you thought had gone forever are coming back. I wonder if there's another Bush in America who would like to have a crack at the presidency?

[heiker]

Originally Posted by Puterkid

If we had a VAT 'holiday' for three months, that would kickstart the economy.

This government is determined to see us sink further and further into recession, and cares not that millions are being put into hardship as a result.

All it would do is increase imports. Joe Public would have a little bit of extra spending money in his pocket which he would spend on imported goods such as clothing and electronics.

[heiker]

Originally Posted by Tassium

The public will blame the current government for the economic situation more and more with each passing year.

After 5 years in power and cuts cuts cuts (including cuts to the tax that the rich pay) there is no way that Labour will be blamed for the total failure.

That's just reality.

Only because the coalition is crap at public relations. If Labour was in power at the moment they would be hammering home to the public the line that this all the fault of the Eurozone.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by tasker

Why do the Labour party think that :

a) we are the only country in the world in a recession? wake up idiots the whole planet is

I think we are the only G20 country in recession.

b) they are the only party on the whole planet that has a way out of it better known as bugger the economy and spend spend spend

Not exactly true, is it? They were going to cut the deficit, just not as fast.

[Nick1966]

Originally Posted by Puterkid

If we had a VAT 'holiday' for three months, that would kickstart the economy.

Doubtful.

Over the last 3 years, the Bank of England has printed enough new money to pay the basic state pension for every pensioner for 5 years or run the NHS for 3.5 years.

We also have the lowest interest rates for 300 years.

And we are still in rececession.

Nothing is going to work. Expect another decade of stagnation, squeezed living standards and austerity.

[tvd]

Originally Posted by blue85

The thing I don't quite get is this. We told, by almost every politician and at every opportunity on almost any related issue that the levels of immigration we now have is good for the country and a net economic benefit. Well, we learned last week that the country grew faster over the last ten years than any other period for over 200 years.

And yet we are knee-deep in debt, debt which is steadily rising - and our economy is now tanking faster than Spain's.

Could it be that, just possibly, that we have been sold a pup? And if we have, what does that mean for the future given we are virtually guaranteed big increases in the population for decades to come?

Supporters of immigration have never been able to explain why immigrants ARE net contributors to the economy, when at the same time they are, in the main, here doing low-paid, unskilled work that our own unemployed could and should be doing.

You dont have to be a mathematical genius to work out that situation is costing us money, not saving it. The only ones gaining, yet again, are big business and even that is short term.

[Nick1966]

Originally Posted by tvd

Supporters of immigration have never been able to explain why immigrants ARE net contributors to the economy, when at the same time they are, in the main, here doing low-paid, unskilled work that our own unemployed could and should be doing.

Probably British people feel that cleaing toilets, being a security guard outside a Tesco Express or driving mini cabs in the small hours is beneath them.

Apparently, there are 11,000 jobs unfilled at the Olympic stadium.

Not only that but there may well be a mismatch between where the jobs are and where people can afford to live.

We need to wise up: there is systematic failure in the country namely:

• low skill, low paid jobs
• record levels of personal and government debt
• mistatch between job vacancies and available / affordable housing
• falling productivity compared with other developed countries
• and 13 years (1995-2008) of consumer boom based on cheap money

You can blame anyone you like: Labour, immigrants, the jet stream, bankers or congestion charging. It doesn't alter the current circumstances: we have a financial and economic hangover which is going to last a decade or more.

[tvd]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Probably British people feel that cleaing toilets, being a security guard outside a Tesco Express or driving mini cabs in the small hours is beneath them.

Apparently, there are 11,000 jobs unfilled at the Olympic stadium.

Not only that but there may well be a mismatch between where the jobs are and where people can afford to live.

We need to wise up: there is systematic failure in the country namely:

• low skill, low paid jobs
• record levels of personal and government debt
• mistatch between job vacancies and available / affordable housing
• falling productivity compared with other developed countries
• and 13 years (1995-2008) of consumer boom based on cheap money

You can blame anyone you like: Labour, immigrants, the jet stream, bankers or congestion charging. It doesn't alter the current circumstances: we have a financial and economic hangover which is going to last a decade or more.

I agree that many British think these jobs are beneath them, but that's up to the government to compel our unemployed to take the jobs.

I also agree the current problems are going to last for a very long time, there doesnt seem to be any plan that will change things for the better - they talk about getting money flowing but all that happens is they give it to banks to sit on.

People who work need to have enough spare after essential bills to actually spend.

[jassi]

Originally Posted by tvd

I agree that many British think these jobs are beneath them, but that's up to the government to compel our unemployed to take the jobs.

I also agree the current problems are going to last for a very long time, there doesnt seem to be any plan that will change things for the better - they talk about getting money flowing but all that happens is they give it to banks to sit on.

People who work need to have enough spare after essential bills to actually spend.

There should be no compel about it.

Workers who are compelled to do something seldom turn out to be very good or reliable employees.

[tvd]

Originally Posted by jassi

There should be no compel about it.

Workers who are compelled to do something seldom turn out to be very good or reliable employees.

Ok, put it another way. Either take these jobs or forfeit job seekers' allowance. Their choice.