[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

I can't see DVB-T(2) being turned off any time soon but it's already at full capacity.

Hold on tight guys, because DMOL has other ideas!

We have decided that the HD genre should be expanded from the 10 LCN range consulted on to 20 LCNs in light of the Ofcom consultation published at the same time as ours. This suggested that the 600 MHz spectrum band vacated by digital switchover might be made available on an interim basis for DTT and could possibly be used for the simulcast of HD channels to drive the take-up of the DVBT2 standard. DMOL may launch a future consultation on the ordering of HD channels which have yet to launch on the DTT platform.

http://www.dmol.co.uk/__data/assets/...ul12_Final.pdf

Discussion thread:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1705300

[DragonQ]

Sure, that's a great idea to speed-up the move from DVB-T to DVB-T2. But DTT itself won't be turned off in the foreseeable future. DVB-T2 probably won't be replaced by DVB-T3 or anything else because it's already very near the theoretical limit.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Sure, that's a great idea to speed-up the move from DVB-T to DVB-T2. But DTT itself won't be turned off in the foreseeable future. DVB-T2 probably won't be replaced by DVB-T3 or anything else because it's already very near the theoretical limit.

Sorry, I wasn't too clear in that post (and quote), as I was really referring to "but it's already at full capacity." (in that DMOL are looking to provide additional DVB-T2 capacity).

Apologies for the confusion - and yes, DTT is not going to disappear, in fact it does look more rosy for HD services as I am sure that they would not want to attract viewers by providing additional HD streams only to take them away afterwards (regardless as to whether the move is to drive DVB-T2 itself, or to help facilitate the conversion of one or more esixting DVB-T muxes to DVB-T2

[Muzer]

I suppose if Ofcom still want to sell off the 700MHz band, this would be the ideal scenario (not saying this is what will happen or is likely to happen, just what Ofcom would love to happen ):

* Ofcom quickly sell off 600MHz spectrum on a temporary basis for HD muxes, and we end up with some "killer channels" that make everybody want HD (perhaps a major channel going HD only for some reason). I suppose the "killer channel" bit is the least likely thing to happen, as I can't see *everyone* changing, but perhaps most people who like the commercial muxes would.
* Everyone who then wants commercial channels will have HD boxes.
* HDSO happens - 700MHz band is vacated: Commercial muxes turn into DVB-T2 SFNs and PSBs use the space previously used by commercial muxes. Everyone gets new aerials.
* Mobile companies use the 700MHz band.

[DragonQ]

Everyone gets new aerials?? Even with the DSO, I think most people didn't need new aerials.

[Muzer]

Everyone who needs them I should have said. People will need them if the 700MHz band becomes in use, most definitely, because the COM muxes will have to go SFN, which will mean that all aerials across the country will have to be able to receive those frequencies, meaning most will need to be wideband.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by Muzer

Everyone who needs them I should have said. People will need them if the 700MHz band becomes in use, most definitely, because the COM muxes will have to go SFN, which will mean that all aerials across the country will have to be able to receive those frequencies, meaning most will need to be wideband.

And from what I have seen, those people who changed/upgraded aerials for DSO had widebands fitted anyway. Around my area, the only single-band aerials left are older ones which would probably require replacement anyway in a few years time.

[Muzer]

Er? Most people haven't changed/upgraded aerials for DSO. Old aerials work fine; the majority in my area are not wideband.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by Muzer

Er? Most people haven't changed/upgraded aerials for DSO. Old aerials work fine; the majority in my area are not wideband.

Er??? You seem to have misunderstood. That's why I clearly said:

those people who changed/upgraded aerials for DSO had widebands fitted anyway

and I did qualify that with the giveaway phrase "And from what I have seen," (i.e. from looking at aerials in and around my area). Perhaps I should have spelt that out.


The majority in my area ARE wideband, many of which were installed prior to DSO last September, or some years beforehand. Those single-band aerials that remain seem to be generally on their last legs, with elements or reflectors missing or bent, or on masts that are rusting away (hence my comment that they will need replacement sooner rather than later). I got the impression that the installers here defaulted to wideband, regardless.

And I didn't say or even hint that old aerials did not work.

[Spot]

C/D aerials work pretty well quite a long way below the part of the band they were designed for, and it's my understanding from the information on this site (written by DS member Justin Aerial) that even if the COMs go down into the UHF 31 to 37 range, many of them might still be OK, though signal strength presumably becomes more of an issue the further out of band you go.

In the most extreme of the three scenarios outlined by Arqiva in their planning options document, where the three COM muxs become nationwide SFNs using UHF22, 25 and 28, (which would leave room for possible further services in the UHF31 to 37 range) there might be many more viewers in areas which previously used the higher part of the band who would need to replace their aerials.

[leicsmark]

Sky News seems to be suffering massive picture blockiness (To the point where the ticker is unreadable) whenever anything busy happens on the screen. I never noticed this before but its like watching something on the internet.

Has anything changed?

[chrisy]

Originally Posted by leicsmark

Sky News seems to be suffering massive picture blockiness (To the point where the ticker is unreadable) whenever anything busy happens on the screen. I never noticed this before but its like watching something on the internet.

Has anything changed?

It's ok here. I noticed something similar on Pick TV recently, but it resolved itself after a couple of reception losses, so I put it down to interference (unfortunately I was watching a recording at the time, otherwise I would have investigated)

[Engine No 9]

So has BBC Three, CBBC etc returned to 720x576 yet? And if not, why don't we lodge a complaint to the BBC about it?

[kasg]

Yes, as already posted somewhere.

[DragonQ]

I assume you mean BBC Four/CBeebies and BBC News? They're both 720x576 again.

BBC Parliament and BBC 301 are 544x576 as always.

[Engine No 9]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

I assume you mean BBC Four/CBeebies and BBC News? They're both 720x576 again

That is good news, thanks for the information!

[Sexbomb]

After full DSO will we see improved picture and sound quality across the platform?

[David (2)]

everyone has a wideband tv aerial?

When we encountered problems with interference signals from other parts the UK (due to increase in broadcast power at DSO, and the use of a wideband aerial), i requested a Grouped (single band) aerial to replace it - i had to wait for the company to order one in as i refused point blank a replacement wideband (as it would not solve the problem).

[DragonQ]

Originally Posted by Sexbomb

After full DSO will we see improved picture and sound quality across the platform?

No.

It's possible that another multiplex or two could open but they'll no doubt try to cram more channels in rather than restore respectable image quality of the current ones.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Engine No 9

So has BBC Three, CBBC etc returned to 720x576 yet? And if not, why don't we lodge a complaint to the BBC about it?

If you can't tell by looking at them, then they may as well have remained at 544 x 720 !

(Thank god they didn't, it was obvious to me they had returned to 720)

[reslfj]

Originally Posted by David (2)

everyone has a wideband tv aerial?

When we encountered problems with interference signals from other parts the UK (due to increase in broadcast power at DSO, and the use of a wideband aerial), i requested a Grouped (single band) aerial to replace it - i had to wait for the company to order one in as i refused point blank a replacement wideband (as it would not solve the problem).

You are working to your own outdated aerial policy. It is Ofcoms rules that will prevail - independently of your personal opinions.

A wideband aerial may not have the same gain (in the case of ch 2x), but it should not collect more noise than a group A aerial (close LTE800 TX being the exception - use a filter)

Ofcom expect all new aerials will be wideband and may well redesign DTT into SFN's by - say - 2020. This will require most aerials to be W60 ( or even W48 if the 700 MHz band is used by LTE700).

Lars

[OwenSmith]

Originally Posted by reslfj

This will require most aerials to be W60 ( or even W48 if the 700 MHz band is used by LTE700).

Do W60 aerials exist yet? I may need to replace an aerial and I don't want to put a W69 in but it does need to be a wideband (channels from 21 to 52 on Sandy Heath).

[David (2)]

Originally Posted by reslfj

You are working to your own outdated aerial policy. It is Ofcoms rules that will prevail - independently of your personal opinions.

A wideband aerial may not have the same gain (in the case of ch 2x), but it should not collect more noise than a group A aerial (close LTE800 TX being the exception - use a filter)

Ofcom expect all new aerials will be wideband and may well redesign DTT into SFN's by - say - 2020. This will require most aerials to be W60 ( or even W48 if the 700 MHz band is used by LTE700).

Lars

the idea of Grouped aerials is to null out unwanted signals, and optimise the ones you do want - which is what we are doing now, and even when things move around for 4G, this will remain the case (although the Groups will be slightly different) and will be even more important if you want to avoid 4G interference.

Only when things change to SFN (if they do) will the entire system change, by which time I doubt I or many other people will be relying on Freeview, and with this in mind a sweeping "everyone needs new aerials" for freeview policy will only further hurt the platform - many wont spend the money on it given the options.

[OwenSmith]

Originally Posted by David (2)

Only when things change to SFN (if they do) will the entire system change, by which time I doubt I or many other people will be relying on Freeview,

I'll still be relying on Freeview, I have no intention of getting Cable or Satellite.

Don't say we'll all be using broadband to watch TV, the backbones aren't fast enough (and won't be even then) and I suspect the reliability will never be good enough. Broadband could be used if everyone accepted a download and watch later model, but that's political suicide (it would suit me fine however).

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by OwenSmith

I'll still be relying on Freeview, I have no intention of getting Cable or Satellite..

Same here. And I would suggest that will be the case for many people.