[princesstech]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Er because a real fashion designer would have learnt the craft of fashion designing at college and even if there are some designers who haven't been to college they would have worked their way up in the industry and learnt it that way.......I don't believe a love of clothes makes you a fashion designer.......I love music, dance and films and can talk about those subjects at length........Does that make me a dancer, singer, musician, actor, film director etc!.......Of course it doesn't!

A real fashion designer has proved they can design.....to me VB never has! She decided she wanted a change of direction after the Spice Girls broke up and her solo career flopped and then she suddenly started calling herself a 'fashion designer'..........well sorry you believe she is if you want but I don't! I won't deny the success of her label but I do think she should be honest and admit she's just the name/figure head behind the label not the designer/ researcher!

Well it seems you are in the minority in the fashion world then really doesn't it? I still fail to see your argument that a "real" fashion designer has to have gone to college. There are plenty of people who excel in their fields who did not learn how to do so at a college. I am also sure that there are plenty of people who did go to college who failed in their chosen career due to a lack of talent.
VB's fame may have been her ticket in to the trade but something has certainly kept her in it. Maybe you just do not want to see that she may have talent as you obviously despise her. Me I am not a huge fan by any means but I am certainly not going to vilify someone who I do not know in person. Maybe you should be honest and admit you just don't like her.

[daisiesfan]

Originally Posted by RealityRocks

Which celebs did you like and now dislike, or visa versa?

For example -

I really liked Stephen Fry, until I read his autobiography, which wasn't very well written, and had a great amount of forced 'intelligent' references and name-dropping. As it turns out he has limted acaedemic achievements, is a convicted fraudster and has a sizable ego.

I disliked Jodie Marsh but I have now come to the opinion that she's a pretty harmless, probably mixed up woman desperate for love and attention. She's far preferable to Katie Price.

I disliked James Corden because he annoyed me (popping up all the time with Matthew Horne, I had him down as arrogant) but then I actually watched Gavin and Stacey and loved it, and now I have a lot of respect for him as an actor and writer.

Sharon Osbourne. Used t really like her (aes ago) but now I think she i a vile, bitter old witch!

[Blondie X]

Peter Andre. I wouldn't go so far as to say Iever liked him but I was definitelty Team Pete after his split with Pwicey. I thought he was far too good for her and that leaving her scrawny arse was the best days work he'd ever done. I thought he was a cheese merchant but basically a nice guy, harmless and decent.

Now I realise he's just as big a media ho as his ex and just as desperate and grasping. Far from being too good for her, they were actually perfectly matched

[intoxication]

Originally Posted by Blondie X

Peter Andre. I wouldn't go so far as to say Iever liked him but I was definitelty Team Pete after his split with Pwicey. I thought he was far too good for her and that leaving her scrawny arse was the best days work he'd ever done. I thought he was a cheese merchant but basically a nice guy, harmless and decent.

Now I realise he's just as big a media ho as his ex and just as desperate and grasping. Far from being too good for her, they were actually perfectly matched

I was going to say Peter Andre and explain but this post says it all.

I used to like Sharon Osbourne but now can't stand her. I thought she was funny on The Osbournes and liked her on the X Factor (I didn't watch the first couple of series so I hadn't seen the Steve rant at the time.) But then she started being nasty and after reading her autobiography, realised what a hypocritical hag she is. Her slagging off Dannii also made me do a turnaround on Dannii - didn't really like her before, but after that and her following series on the X Factor, I warmed to her.

[sheila blige]

Originally Posted by princesstech

Well it seems you are in the minority in the fashion world then really doesn't it? I still fail to see your argument that a "real" fashion designer has to have gone to college. There are plenty of people who excel in their fields who did not learn how to do so at a college. I am also sure that there are plenty of people who did go to college who failed in their chosen career due to a lack of talent.

Its true that people don't have to go to college to become 'something' in a particular field. I think Topaz did point out that people who've worked in the trade for years (possibly starting as pattern-cutters, etc) and worked their way up know as much (possibly more) than people who have gone to college. Victoria is head of a fashion empire - but she is NOT a designer. What she does have - is excellent taste enough to surround herself with a staff who do know what they're doing. She knows enough to hand over the reins to people who DO know what they're doing. She does come up with ideas - but its the creative staff around her who (I believe) do the designing.

I actually like Victoria Beckham (she's one person who I have changed my mind about) but it has nothing to do with her the clothes she puts her name to. What she does have is loads of class and taste and a great sense of humour - when she decides to show it. She also comes across as a very loyal person - not just to David but to her family and friends.

[princesstech]

Originally Posted by sheila blige

Its true that people don't have to go to college to become 'something' in a particular field. I think Topaz did point out that people who've worked in the trade for years (possibly starting as pattern-cutters, etc) and worked their way up know as much (possibly more) than people who have gone to college. Victoria is head of a fashion empire - but she is NOT a designer. What she does have - is excellent taste enough to surround herself with a staff who do know what they're doing. She knows enough to hand over the reins to people who DO know what they're doing. She does come up with ideas - but its the creative staff around her who (I believe) do the designing.

I actually like Victoria Beckham (she's one person who I have changed my mind about) but it has nothing to do with her the clothes she puts her name to. What she does have is loads of class and taste and a great sense of humour - when she decides to show it. She also comes across as a very loyal person - not just to David but to her family and friends.

Now this is an argument I can relate to rather than rabid anti VB venom. I agree, she is an ideas lady rather than probably the techy stuff (we don't know that fact either way for sure) but isn't the idea a huge chunk of it? I also agree she seems very loyal to those around her and vice versa. Not a lot of people who actually know them have come out and said anything horrible about the Beckhams.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by princesstech

Well it seems you are in the minority in the fashion world then really doesn't it? I still fail to see your argument that a "real" fashion designer has to have gone to college. There are plenty of people who excel in their fields who did not learn how to do so at a college. I am also sure that there are plenty of people who did go to college who failed in their chosen career due to a lack of talent.
VB's fame may have been her ticket in to the trade but something has certainly kept her in it. Maybe you just do not want to see that she may have talent as you obviously despise her. Me I am not a huge fan by any means but I am certainly not going to vilify someone who I do not know in person. Maybe you should be honest and admit you just don't like her.

Oh please where did I villify VB I acknowledged the success of her label and just because I don't believe she's a fashion designer and creates designs that doesn't mean I 'despise' her and I doubt you know VB personally so you can't prove she's as talented as you seem to think she is either! Goodness some people are so overprotective of celebs!

Originally Posted by sheila blige

Its true that people don't have to go to college to become 'something' in a particular field. I think Topaz did point out that people who've worked in the trade for years (possibly starting as pattern-cutters, etc) and worked their way up know as much (possibly more) than people who have gone to college. Victoria is head of a fashion empire - but she is NOT a designer. What she does have - is excellent taste enough to surround herself with a staff who do know what they're doing. She knows enough to hand over the reins to people who DO know what they're doing. She does come up with ideas - but its the creative staff around her who (I believe) do the designing.

I actually like Victoria Beckham (she's one person who I have changed my mind about) but it has nothing to do with her the clothes she puts her name to. What she does have is loads of class and taste and a great sense of humour - when she decides to show it. She also comes across as a very loyal person - not just to David but to her family and friends.

Yes thank you, I actually don't like or dislike her but she's never proven that she can design. I know she has a love of fashion so could probably contribute some ideas but I don't think that's enough to be able to call yourself a 'fashion designer'! I stand by my original point she shouldn't be calling herself one and that just doesn't apply to her it applies to many 'celebs' who suddenly become 'designers' overnight

[sheila blige]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Yes thank you, I actually don't like or dislike her but she's never proven that she can design. I know she has a love of fashion so could probably contribute some ideas but I don't think that's enough to be able to call yourself a 'fashion designer'! I stand by my original point she shouldn't be calling herself one and that just doesn't apply to her it applies to many 'celebs' who suddenly become 'designers' overnight

To be honest - I don't think I can recall her ever calling herself a fashion designer. I however know of people (I've worked for them) who've called themselves 'interior designers' - when all they've done is marry incredibly rich men - got the architects in saying 'I'd like that wall knocking down' ... 'a large window here please' ... then done some stuff with thrown cushions and drapes ... boom - they're an interior designer! LOL.

[princesstech]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Oh please where did I villify VB I acknowledged the success of her label and just because I don't believe she's a fashion designer and creates designs that doesn't mean I 'despise' her and I doubt you know VB personally so you can't prove she's as talented as you seem to think she is either! Goodness some people are so overprotective of celebs!


Yes thank you, I actually don't like or dislike her but she's never proven that she can design. I know she has a love of fashion so could probably contribute some ideas but I don't think that's enough to be able to call yourself a 'fashion designer'! I stand by my original point she shouldn't be calling herself one and that just doesn't apply to her it applies to many 'celebs' who suddenly become 'designers' overnight

Hmm I actually made it clear that I do NOT know what input she has. Why should she have to prove anything? She is successful. Your original point still stands as flawed as you do not have the facts and no neither do I.

I am not over protective of VB but this is one lady who seems to have an inordinate amount of vilification thrown her way for no reason that I can fathom. Last post on the subject as my head is sore from hitting a brick wall.

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by princesstech

Hmm I actually made it clear that I do NOT know what input she has. Why should she have to prove anything? She is successful. Your original point still stands as flawed as you do not have the facts and no neither do I.

I am not over protective of VB but this is one lady who seems to have an inordinate amount of vilification thrown her way for no reason that I can fathom. Last post on the subject as my head is sore from hitting a brick wall.

You didn't actually make it clear in your posts, you seemed to be suggesting she was a 'fashion designer' just because she talked the talk in interviews and because of the success of her label and then jumped down my throat when I suggested she wasn't so it's your posts that are flawed really..........and she's the one whose gone along with the label 'fashion designer' that her PR has given her and has never proved that she can design..........sorry but you do seem over protective of her because I gave you some very valid reasons why she wasn't a designer which you conveniently ignored .........so I'm fine with ending it here - the feeling is quite mutual, no point in trying to debate with someone who doesn't want to listen to reason

[Beakerange]

I used to really like Claire Richards from Steps, but since that autobiography I have completely changed my opinion on her

[Chip Popple]

Originally Posted by Beakerange

I used to really like Claire Richards from Steps, but since that autobiography I have completely changed my opinion on her

Agree, she's made a fool of herself and strikes me as an attention seeker

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

I don't believe that just because Victoria presents herself well in interviews and has been PR advised in what to say in them that it means she's heavily involved in the design/research side of her fashion line..........I believe the vast majority of work is done by her team and she is just the name behind the label.........she has done a good job of using her celebrity status to promote the line and it is to her credit that she took advice and she changed her image and was then able to get people to take her more seriously. However, I really think it is an insult to fashion designers who've been to fashion college and proved that they can design and worked hard throughout their careers to get their names recognised to call someone like Victoria Beckam a 'fashion designer'.........and before you say that all fashion designers have teams behind them yes I know they do, but at least they themselves have proved they can etch and create designs.......VB just giving interviews talking about her line doesn't prove that she can!

I think that VB rode to fame on the back of the Spice Girls and being a WAG, yes, but I think that's better than just having a famous father. Where would Stella McCartney be without THAT surname?

Originally Posted by casualtyno1fan

I used to really love Rihanna, but I've really gone off her lately. All she seems to do is pose and love herself and post photos on Instagram every two seconds. Such a turn-off in my eyes.

True!

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Er because a real fashion designer would have learnt the craft of fashion designing at college and even if there are some designers who haven't been to college they would have worked their way up in the industry and learnt it that way.......I don't believe a love of clothes makes you a fashion designer.......I love music, dance and films and can talk about those subjects at length........Does that make me a dancer, singer, musician, actor, film director etc!.......Of course it doesn't!

A real fashion designer has proved they can design.....to me VB never has! She decided she wanted a change of direction after the Spice Girls broke up and her solo career flopped and then she suddenly started calling herself a 'fashion designer'..........well sorry you believe she is if you want but I don't! I won't deny the success of her label but I do think she should be honest and admit she's just the name/figure head behind the label not the designer/ researcher!

Good post!

Originally Posted by GuyCarleyfan

Definitely Kristen Stewart. I was a huge fan of her and loads of people thought she was a really genuine, mature and smart girl (Even celebs thought she was the ''most real person in Hollywood'') but then that whole scandal happened which showed that she is a liar & I lost respect for her because of what happened. Really did not think she was the type of girl to do that.

I propose that we change the first two lines of the christmas carol Oh Come All Ye Faithful from

Oh Come All Ye Faithful
Joyful and triumphant

to

Oh Come All Ye Faithful
(Except for Kristen Stewart)

Originally Posted by My Sweet Life

I liked Rhianna, but the whole "look at me, I'm so controversial, I wander around half naked and sing about kinky sex" thing has put me right off her.

Post of the week, no, post of the month, and prime candidate for post of the year!

Originally Posted by sheila blige

To be honest - I don't think I can recall her ever calling herself a fashion designer. I however know of people (I've worked for them) who've called themselves 'interior designers' - when all they've done is marry incredibly rich men - got the architects in saying 'I'd like that wall knocking down' ... 'a large window here please' ... then done some stuff with thrown cushions and drapes ... boom - they're an interior designer! LOL.

My flat was just bare walls and floor when I moved in... I've furnished it, got the curtains, the carpets, everything, now its chique + elegant. So I think I can call myself an interior designer and so can anyone who does the same!

[sheila blige]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I think that VB rode to fame on the back of the Spice Girls and being a WAG, yes, but I think that's better than just having a famous father. Where would Stella McCartney be without THAT surname?

Very, very true. And ... if I were to choose a nice frock to go out in ... I'd choose one that had Victoria's name to it than the horsey sh/te Stella McCartney comes up with!

My flat was just bare walls and floor when I moved in... I've furnished it, got the curtains, the carpets, everything, now its chique + elegant. So I think I can call myself an interior designer and so can anyone who does the same!

But you did so for yourself! Do you go around to other people's homes saying - 'I can re-design it for you. I'm an interior designer' The woman I knew did!

[*Topaz*]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I think that VB rode to fame on the back of the Spice Girls and being a WAG, yes, but I think that's better than just having a famous father. Where would Stella McCartney be without THAT surname?

My argument about Victoria Beckham was not how she became famous - it was about people using the word 'fashion designer' to describe what she does because imo she's not one. She's never shown that she's capable of designing and although I accept the success of her fashion line I think it's wrong and misleading that the media/PR calls her a 'fashion designer' - I'm not sure if she's ever called herself one but she does seem to go along with the title and I feel it's insulting to real fashion designers.

Whatever you think of Stella McCartney she is a fashion designer........it's something she's trained in and shown she can do and is therefore entitled to call herself one. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of hers and I accept that having a famous father has helped her but she has worked and trained in fashion for a long time so I think she's earnt the right to call herself a 'fashion designer'.

[Chip Popple]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

My argument about Victoria Beckham was not how she became famous - it was about people using the word 'fashion designer' to describe what she does because imo she's not one. She's never shown that she's capable of designing and although I accept the success of her fashion line I think it's wrong and misleading that the media/PR calls her a 'fashion designer' - I'm not sure if she's ever called herself one but she does seem to go along with the title and I feel it's insulting to real fashion designers.

Whatever you think of Stella McCartney she is a fashion designer........it's something she's trained in and shown she can do and is therefore entitled to call herself one. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of hers and I accept that having a famous father has helped her but she has worked and trained in fashion for a long time so I think she's earnt the right to call herself a 'fashion designer'.

BIB - Totally agree. Regardless of whether she's Macca's daughter, Stella has worked hard to get where she is.

[scatcatcathy]

Used to like amanda holden in cutting it,in recent times she seems so full of herself.

[Yoshi Fan]

Amanda Holden. I disliked her, but since her stint on Britain's Got Talent, I've grown to like her a lot more.

I found Gino DiCampo very irritating until he went on I'm a Celebrity. Any man who can put a live spider in his mouth immediately wins my respect. Also loved Katie Price during her first stint on I'm a Celebrity. Now I hate her guts...publicity seeking, money-grabbing tart.

I used to love Cilla Black, but reading how so many have experienced her and said she's a nasty woman has put me off her.

[InNoctem]

not really a celeb but Jools Oliver. I'm rather jumping wagons with her husband, sometimes I like him somtimes I don't.

I used to like Jools. Saw her in the early Oliver's twist and and Jamie's School Dinners and thought she's absolutely down to earth and a supportive wife. Then she came out with a children's book, then a children's clothes line then a magazine cover(s)...I mean who does she think she is? Former model my arse. She's got nothing to talk about really apart from being Jamie's wife. which is why comes out all this ridiculous interviews , "My Jamie will never cheat on me" "I check Jamie's emails, twiitter" "I want more babies"...as if it matter what she thinks, says and do!

I remember Daily Mail publishing a story of how Brangelina and brood were in London and they printed a picture of her and the kids peering from their home like a bunch of busybody nobodys..thought it was funny because i was thinking, 'yeah, you're just as common as we are! muck!"

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

Whatever you think of Stella McCartney she is a fashion designer........it's something she's trained in and shown she can do and is therefore entitled to call herself one. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of hers and I accept that having a famous father has helped her but she has worked and trained in fashion for a long time so I think she's earnt the right to call herself a 'fashion designer'.

Originally Posted by Chip Popple

BIB - Totally agree. Regardless of whether she's Macca's daughter, Stella has worked hard to get where she is.

Fair enough. Good to see that she's got enthusiastic supporters here! Perhaps you're right.

[Lilaeth]

Originally Posted by *Topaz*

My argument about Victoria Beckham was not how she became famous - it was about people using the word 'fashion designer' to describe what she does because imo she's not one. She's never shown that she's capable of designing and although I accept the success of her fashion line I think it's wrong and misleading that the media/PR calls her a 'fashion designer' - I'm not sure if she's ever called herself one but she does seem to go along with the title and I feel it's insulting to real fashion designers.

Whatever you think of Stella McCartney she is a fashion designer........it's something she's trained in and shown she can do and is therefore entitled to call herself one. I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan of hers and I accept that having a famous father has helped her but she has worked and trained in fashion for a long time so I think she's earnt the right to call herself a 'fashion designer'.

So what does VB have to do to merit calling herself a designer? Is coming up with ideas not enough? Pretty sure Lagerfeld et al don't draw the patterns, cut them out, sew them up, etc.

[My Sweet Life]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

Post of the week, no, post of the month, and prime candidate for post of the year!

Why, thank you!

[sweetm1995]

I used to hate Mariah Carey as her 'diva antics' put me off her so much and I thought she was very overrated for a woman, who had huge boobs and had an ego the size of China, whose only song I knew was on the radio EVERY Christmas. Then I watched YouTube performances of her singing in the 90s and now I LIKE her music.

[tally]

Originally Posted by daisiesfan

Sharon Osbourne. Used t really like her (aes ago) but now I think she i a vile, bitter old witch!

Oh me too, I loathe her now. On t'other hand I've done a complete one eighty on son Jack. I used to think he was a fat, useless waste of space. I so admire the way he's changed his life around. Even the devastating news of MS has been met head on with no pity and tremendous courage. Good on you Jack.

Originally Posted by Blondie X

Peter Andre. I wouldn't go so far as to say Iever liked him but I was definitelty Team Pete after his split with Pwicey. I thought he was far too good for her and that leaving her scrawny arse was the best days work he'd ever done. I thought he was a cheese merchant but basically a nice guy, harmless and decent.

Now I realise he's just as big a media ho as his ex and just as desperate and grasping. Far from being too good for her, they were actually perfectly matched

Couldn't have put it better myself. Are you reading my mind Blondie?

[Chip Popple]

Originally Posted by Lilaeth

So what does VB have to do to merit calling herself a designer? Is coming up with ideas not enough? Pretty sure Lagerfeld et al don't draw the patterns, cut them out, sew them up, etc.

Lagerfeld did start his career as an apprentice for a fashion house, he worked his way up too. He's been in the fashion world since the late 1950's, to mention him and Posh in the same sentence is a bit of a travesty tbh.