[daveyboy7472]

Season 15 I have always thought a mixed bag overall, as it still has some Hinchcliffe overhang stories as Graham Williams became producer. This story was obviously one of them and could have fitted in anywhere in the previous few years and if it had it would actually be one of my faves overall from that period.

I think it was a great idea to bring in the Rutan's and see the other side of the story after the two Sontaran tales so far. They really are the total opposite to the Sontarans and it does make me wonder how too such opposing adversaries in physicality can actually ever do battle!

I think the Rutan works best in the earlier episodes where you only catch glimpses of it or when it copies people. Seeing it in full is a bit of a letdown but not so much as to ruin the story.

Otherwise it is an all round excellent story. I love the claustrophobic nature of it, the lighthouse setting is just superb and well realised. The Rutan Reuban is really creepy and I think the excellent mix of characters really helps move the story along.

Spoiler

It was really unusual of all them (bar The Doctor and Leela) to die.

I also think this is the best story to feature Leela for me. I just adore the way she tries to understand things and fails, like trying to remember the message to keep the boiler pressure up etc. Plus off course the convenient change of eye colour at the end!

A good start to Season 15 and in terms of story, possibly the best one of this run for me.

[CELT1987]

The opening two stories of season 15 were the last 'gothic' style stories, seen in the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era.. After that, there was more humour brought in to the series to replace the more violent style of the series from the Hinchcliffe era. Horror of Fank Rock is a great story, great atomsphere and a good villian in the Rutan. I thought the lighthouse keepers Reuben and Vince were good characters.

Sadly season 15 wasnt as good as the opening two episodes.

[sovietusername]

Also love this story, superb

[steven1977]

I thought this topic was going to be about when the pirates hacked into this story and put a funny Max Headroom clip instead.

[gboy]

Another brilliant story - I love the claustrophobic atmosphere, and the pervading sense of menace as the Rutan picks them off one by one.

A nice, tight story, with some good characterisation. Not bad, considering Terrance Dicks trotted it out on the quick after the BBC declined his initial vampire tale (later to become 'State of Decay' in season 18).

I agree the Rutan is definitely scarier when we can't see it in its glory - rather catch glimpses of it, or see scenes from its perspective.

And Tom has some great lines:

Palmerdale: Are you in charge here?

The Doctor: No, but I'm full of ideas.

It such a shame that a series that started so brilliantly with 'Fang Rock' should end so lamely with the truly awful 'Invasion of Time', but we'll come to that story shortly...

[Tom Tit]

First two watches I thought this was a ludicrously overrated story. On my third viewing recently I enjoyed it for the first time, maybe because of lowered expectations (I went into it originally expecting a classic).

The fourth Doctor is really very dark in this story, which I enjoy. At first, it seems like Tom Baker was in a bad mood when they recorded it (not very unlikely) but now i can see it as a nice change of pace from his more madcap ways later in the Williams era (which i also love, by the way).

The thing that still really hurts the story though, even though I now officially enjoy it :P is that bloody Rutan. Boy, it looks rubbish. But beyond that, it is stupid. The ending is truly laughable. The Rutan discards it's human form, claiming it no longer has need of it - and then promptly struggles to get up the stairs, taking an age to do it! Oh dear. Stupid Rutan or stupid writer? Jeez, should we really fear a potential invasion fleet from this lot?

Also, I have become more used to the poor performances of the actors playing the lighthouse keepers. I believe the young keeper was playing his first significant role on TV (according tot he commentary) - and boy, can you tell.

Add the fact that very little actually happens in the story, and that there is a whole tacked on subpplot involving the wrecked ship that doesn't really have any relevance beyond providing fodder and the serial should be a write off but, miraculously, the atmosphere manages to pull it through and make it an enjoyable 4 episodes.

It's still wildly overrated but i've made peace with it. And actually, it's one of Terrance Dicks best stories (love the man but not his writing).

[DavetheScot]

For me, this story marks the end of the great era. From Terror of the Zygons up to and including this story, every story bar one had been either great or very good. There were, of course, still great stories to come, but there was never to be such a consistently excellent period again.

This story is pretty much as good as any from that great period. It's a very simple and basic plot, but so well done here, and the idea of a lighthouse is a good setting.

I agree that the Rutan in its own form doesn't really work well, but I honestly don't think that spoils it. Reuben possessed by the Rutan is fantastic.

[chuffnobbler]

Colin Douglas is one of the scariest ever baddies, as Reuben the Rutan. Adelaide's death has always unsettled me.

Absolutely top-drawer DW. 10/10. Fantastic.

[CoalHillJanitor]

Originally Posted by Tom Tit

First two watches I thought this was a ludicrously overrated story. On my third viewing recently I enjoyed it for the first time, maybe because of lowered expectations (I went into it originally expecting a classic).

The fourth Doctor is really very dark in this story, which I enjoy. At first, it seems like Tom Baker was in a bad mood when they recorded it (not very unlikely) but now i can see it as a nice change of pace from his more madcap ways later in the Williams era (which i also love, by the way).

The thing that still really hurts the story though, even though I now officially enjoy it :P is that bloody Rutan. Boy, it looks rubbish. But beyond that, it is stupid. The ending is truly laughable. The Rutan discards it's human form, claiming it no longer has need of it - and then promptly struggles to get up the stairs, taking an age to do it! Oh dear. Stupid Rutan or stupid writer? Jeez, should we really fear a potential invasion fleet from this lot?

Also, I have become more used to the poor performances of the actors playing the lighthouse keepers. I believe the young keeper was playing his first significant role on TV (according tot he commentary) - and boy, can you tell.

Add the fact that very little actually happens in the story, and that there is a whole tacked on subpplot involving the wrecked ship that doesn't really have any relevance beyond providing fodder and the serial should be a write off but, miraculously, the atmosphere manages to pull it through and make it an enjoyable 4 episodes.

It's still wildly overrated but i've made peace with it. And actually, it's one of Terrance Dicks best stories (love the man but not his writing).

This is about where I am on it tbh, but...

Since tingramretro is on permanent holiday I thought I should recall for the record that episode 1 of Fang Rock was his second favourite Classic Who episode (first being ep 1 of The Mind Robber).

[steven1977]

Great story!

[chuffnobbler]

Originally Posted by Tom Tit

snip


At first, it seems like Tom Baker was in a bad mood when they recorded it (not very unlikely)


snip

This was a very bad-natured production.

Recorded in Birmingham at the Pebble Mill studios (may they rest in peace), Tom hated being away from London. He was in a permanent sulk and had huge arguments with Paddy Russell (director).

Tom aired his frustrations very publicly, and was quite unpleasant to some of the cast and crew. This might be the story where he snatched the script ot of someone's hand and threw it out of the window (I think it's the youngest lighthouseman who was on the receiving end of this).

The problems involved with working in a small, circular set also raised tensions. Working in Brum for the first time meant that some of the production team were totally new to DW, which added to the stresses and strains.

Tom and Louise often say this is their least favourite story.

[steven1977]

Originally Posted by chuffnobbler

Tom and Louise often say this is their least favourite story.

I felt Image of the Fendahl was a far worse story.

[Tom Tit]

Originally Posted by chuffnobbler

This was a very bad-natured production.

Recorded in Birmingham at the Pebble Mill studios (may they rest in peace), Tom hated being away from London. He was in a permanent sulk and had huge arguments with Paddy Russell (director).

Tom aired his frustrations very publicly, and was quite unpleasant to some of the cast and crew. This might be the story where he snatched the script ot of someone's hand and threw it out of the window (I think it's the youngest lighthouseman who was on the receiving end of this).

The problems involved with working in a small, circular set also raised tensions. Working in Brum for the first time meant that some of the production team were totally new to DW, which added to the stresses and strains.

Tom and Louise often say this is their least favourite story.

It really comes through onscreen. I guess it does go to show what Tom Baker has always said: he was Doctor Who when he played the part. Tom's mood was the Doctor's mood. And it's actually one of my favourite aspects of the story now: the doctor seems quite dangerous and cold. Of all the Doctor's the 4th was the one that could turn at the drop of a hat. We all know that the Doctor's appearance as a 'grinning jackanapes' is a false front to disarm people and the 4th was the best example of that (the 9th Doctor is second in this respect).

[Larry1971]

by far the best story in season 15.

[doublefour]

The Doctor Leela interaction is good in this story. I love some of the humour and by-play between the two. The Doctor biting back at Leela, “What do you mean, do not be afraid”, Leela’s expression is priceless. Later in episode 4, Leela is winding the Doctor up about being a Timelord, the Doctor realising this and saying “Come on Savage”. Also, the “Teshnician” joke from episode 1.
Leela does get a super role also, she’s hammering down doors with a sledgehammer, taunts the Rutan in it’s death throws, slapping Adelaide, also love the bit where Adelaide faints and her reaction. Threating to cut someone’s heart out if they don’t do what the Doctor says. Overall the Leela character is used well and is suited to the situation.
The Doctor is well balanced throughout the story, seriousness and light-hearted moments are nicely blended in. “Once you‘ve seen on Rutan, you‘ve seen em all”, also like the scene where he is meeting the crashed yaght crew, minutes into the conversation he suddenly cry’s out “Just a moment, we haven‘t been introduced”. But the line that stands out, is “Gentlemen, I‘ve got news for you, this Lighthouse is under attack, and by morning we might all de dead”.
The Lighthouse characters are excellently portrayed, Reuben the older grizzled Lighthouse keeper and the younger Vince naïve and a bit bumbling, but likable.
The crashed yaght crew are still well played, they fill in some of the gaps for a four part story and of course provide some cannon fodder for the Rutan.
SFX wise, the Rutan is adequate I feel, but the whole lighthouse is a very claustrophobic, creepy setting. The Beeb have in general always done a period piece well, which production wise makes it very good overall.
A superb Doctor Who story, a superb example of the early to mid Tom Baker era.

Quite surprised Tom & Louise state this is their least favourite production, you cannot tell from the performances they gave.
Easily the best in season 15, starts well and gets progressively worse (barring The Sunmakers).

[DavetheScot]

Originally Posted by chuffnobbler

This was a very bad-natured production.

Recorded in Birmingham at the Pebble Mill studios (may they rest in peace), Tom hated being away from London. He was in a permanent sulk and had huge arguments with Paddy Russell (director).

Tom aired his frustrations very publicly, and was quite unpleasant to some of the cast and crew. This might be the story where he snatched the script ot of someone's hand and threw it out of the window (I think it's the youngest lighthouseman who was on the receiving end of this).

The problems involved with working in a small, circular set also raised tensions. Working in Brum for the first time meant that some of the production team were totally new to DW, which added to the stresses and strains.

Tom and Louise often say this is their least favourite story.

It's an odd thing that a drama that the cast found a miserable experience in the making can nonetheless make wonderful viewing for the audience, and the converse can also be true.

I remember Don Warrington once saying that people kept saying to him how much fun Rising Damp must have been to work on. In fact, according to Don, it really wasn't; Leonard Rossiter was such a perfectionist that he drove everyone mad insisting on doing a scene over and over again, long after everyone else thought it was perfectly satisfactory, getting every tiny nuance fine-tuned. And yet, Don acknowledged, Leonard had been right, and the series wouldn't have been as great if he hadn't done that.