[kimindex]

Originally Posted by LIZALYNN

Some people do enjoy shooting and hunting. We need to accept that not everyone is a passionate animal lover.
Interesting to see how animal rights people will react when the rat population explodes seeing as councils are cutting pest control out of their budgets.

Some people enjoy all sorts of depraved things. That doesn't make it acceptable. Enjoying causing harm, pain and death is pretty low on the scale of lowness. It's despicable and not caring about it is callous and cold.

[chipbuttie1]

Even if someone isn't an animal lover why do they have to shoot animals? Why not do clay pigeon shooting? I cannot understand someone who wants to inflict pain and take away a beautiful animals life.

[who_me]

Scott would probably enjoy being in the Bullingdon Club and having a yacht moored in Monaco but its not going to happen. The only thing worse than a member of the landed gentry is a wannabe aristo. Total sad case

[heebs]

Originally Posted by Monkey Prince

No, because you don't kill animals for entertainment. IMO there is a difference.

Exactly right...Hunting for food...part of the Eco system and acceptable...hunting for pleasure...WRONG...SCOTT AND ADAM MUST NOT WIN....Adam used to be a robber...I know what it's like to be a victim of robbery and theft..and it's horrible...you feel so much hatred towards to person who feels he can just take your hard earned property..just snatch it...I never liked Adam.

[chipbuttie1]

Originally Posted by heebs

Exactly right...Hunting for food...part of the Eco system and acceptable...hunting for pleasure...WRONG...SCOTT AND ADAM MUST NOT WIN....Adam used to be a robber...I know what it's like to be a victim of robbery and theft..and it's horrible...you feel so much hatred towards to person who feels he can just take your hard earned property..just snatch it...I never liked Adam.

Adam's bio - Since the age of 19, he has worked hard to turn his life around and has worked as a mentor for young people in the US. He also wants to work with young adults with drug and alcohol problems in the UK.

Adam has turned his life around.

[Monkey Prince]

I generally find people with no care for animal welfare have not much more care for humanity.

Time for Scott to go.

[chipbuttie1]

Originally Posted by Monkey Prince

I generally find people with no care for animal welfare have not much more care for humanity.

Time for Scott to go.

Yes, experts say that many murderers started out torturing animals for fun.

[NatoPMT]

Originally Posted by Teddybear99

I disagree with this. I am a vegetarian and have been for over 30 years. However, I don't expect other people to be. What I would like to see is people being more aware of how their meat is produced and for it to be ethically sourced. So that there is an end to intense and battery type farming.

I have absolutely no problem, for example with some of the hunters in the world who kill for food, and who having killed the animal humanely ensure that every part of the animal is used. These people are expert hunters and are doing it purely for survival.

What I do have a problem with is people who kill animals for fun, so they can stand on the body and pose proudly with their big weapon. Or discard all the body and soul of the animal and have the skin made into a rug so they can stand on and degrade the animal further on a daily basis.

I have never heard of anyone eating a bear for food, yet it is a very common form of hunting.

I havent eaten meat since 1989, and the reason Im vegetarian is because i come from a hunting family. My father collects shotguns and I remember ducks hanging being matured in our porch

My reasoning for still respecting my dad is that the birds and animals he shoots, are eaten, and have a MUCH better life, and in the birds' cases a chance of survival against your average lamb or chicken.

My husband eats meat and I don't like it, but have to accept it, i am becoming more militant about it in that I really don't agree with eating meat or hunting and don't believe you can have empathy for sentient animals if you eat them - and this is an issue now we have a daughter who i would like to be vegetarian.

It upsets me to see a young man like Scott apparently aspire to hunting or mindlessly kill a moth or spider (when harmless), and it upsets me that people still view vegetarianism as a crank, and that people dont see it as a way of life humanity should evolve into, i dont often say these things as they offend and make me seem superior and that my beliefs are right, but i believe they are, quite frankly, and some rather more impressive people than me agree:

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist


Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

I dont mind admitting i have an agenda with this topic, cos i do and its an agenda that most people would rather deny

[chipbuttie1]

Originally Posted by NatoPMT

I havent eaten meat since 1989, and the reason Im vegetarian is because i come from a hunting family. My father collects shotguns and I remember ducks hanging being matured in our porch

My reasoning for still respecting my dad is that the birds and animals he shoots, are eaten, and have a MUCH better life, and in the birds' cases a chance of survival against your average lamb or chicken.

My husband eats meat and I don't like it, but have to accept it, i am becoming more militant about it in that I really don't agree with eating meat or hunting and don't believe you can have empathy for sentient animals if you eat them - and this is an issue now we have a daughter who i would like to be vegetarian.

It upsets me to see a young man like Scott apparently aspire to hunting or mindlessly kill a moth or spider (when harmless), and it upsets me that people still view vegetarianism as a crank, and that people dont see it as a way of life humanity should evolve into, i dont often say these things as they offend and make me seem superior and that my beliefs are right, but i believe they are, quite frankly, and some rather more impressive people than me agree:

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
Pythagoras, mathematician

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist


Our task must be to free ourselves . . . by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

I dont mind admitting i have an agenda with this topic, cos i do and its an agenda that most people would rather deny

I totally agree with you. I don't think being veggie is as unusual as it used to be. And I think it's becoming much more mainstream to be aware of the suffering that goes in to our plate of meat. Personally I'm not a vegetarian, I used to be but I found it difficult to be honest. Now I only eat free range eggs, outdoor reared, organic meat, I don't eat much meat anyway, but just find it very hard to give it up completely. I'll often have days when I don't eat any meat though.

But in Scott's case, wanting to hunt big game in Africa and bring back trophies is a totally different ball game entirely, and I can't see how anyone can agree with it.

[NatoPMT]

Originally Posted by chipbuttie1

I totally agree with you. I don't think being veggie is as unusual as it used to be. And I think it's becoming much more mainstream to be aware of the suffering that goes in to our plate of meat. Personally I'm not a vegetarian, I used to be but I found it difficult to be honest. Now I only eat free range eggs, outdoor reared, organic meat, I don't eat much meat anyway, but just find it very hard to give it up completely. I'll often have days when I don't eat any meat though.

But in Scott's case, wanting to hunt big game in Africa and bring back trophies is a totally different ball game entirely, and I can't see how anyone can agree with it.

There are people like you, who dont screw their faces up when i mention Im veggie, but there are more who do screw their faces up and show actual contempt for the concept of vegetarianism. I get told im a pain in the arse regularly when going for dinner (it is hard finding nice food, espec in some foreign countries but Marrakesh & Rio were a dream)

My favourite dinner party tale was when my friend called me to ask what I eat, and I said "i dont eat anything with an arse" as a joke.

I got there, and he had cooked me a meal completely different to everyone else's as he thought Id said

"i don't eat anything with an R"

and he's dyslexic, and there were several R's within the meal.

[chipbuttie1]

Originally Posted by NatoPMT

There are people like you, who dont screw their faces up when i mention Im veggie, but there are more who do screw their faces up and show actual contempt for the concept of vegetarianism. I get told im a pain in the arse regularly when going for dinner (it is hard finding nice food, espec in some foreign countries but Marrakesh & Rio were a dream)

My favourite dinner party tale was when my friend called me to ask what I eat, and I said "i dont eat anything with an arse" as a joke.

I got there, and he had cooked me a meal completely different to everyone else's as he thought Id said

"i don't eat anything with an R"

and he's dyslexic, and there were several R's within the meal.

LOL, how mad?! What bugs me is when people claim to be veggie but then say they eat fish and/or chickn, it's like that's not a blooming veggie.

I am such a total hypocrite though because I am the biggest animal rights psyco going yet I still eat some meat. But if I had to kill the animal myself, I would be a veggie.

[NatoPMT]

Originally Posted by chipbuttie1

LOL, how mad?! What bugs me is when people claim to be veggie but then say they eat fish and/or chickn, it's like that's not a blooming veggie.

I am such a total hypocrite though because I am the biggest animal rights psyco going yet I still eat some meat. But if I had to kill the animal myself, I would be a veggie.

I'd rather talk to someone 'hypocritical' like you than someone militantly pro meat. Any reduction in meat consumption is a good thing.

Re: going to Africa game hunting, i went on safari in kenya a few years ago, and you suddenly realise what its like to be prey. It felt like being in Jurassic Park. I almost wished i had an "i'm a veggie" ID card to flash at the lions to prove they should eat someone els for revenge. If game hunters were really in the bush, with no cover they would crap themselves. That's what makes it even more cowardly, Im sure most commercial hunters stay in their van.

[yellowlabbie]

Originally Posted by chipbuttie1

LOL, how mad?! What bugs me is when people claim to be veggie but then say they eat fish and/or chickn, it's like that's not a blooming veggie.

I am such a total hypocrite though because I am the biggest animal rights psyco going yet I still eat some meat. But if I had to kill the animal myself, I would be a veggie.

It really bugs me too, I don't eat any meat, chicken or fish.

[PrinceGaz]

Big game hunting in Africa is of species which are NOT endangered in any way. Primarily the sorts you see in documentaries running across rivers in their hundreds trying to avoid the crocodiles, and being preyed on by lions, leopards, cheetahs and the like on the plains (or after they die, get eaten by hyenas and other scavengers). Yes, a limited amount of hunting of other animals like elephants takes place, but that is beneficial because if their numbers were allowed to grow unchecked, they could devastate the vegetation, much like how farmers here shoot or otherwise kill rabbits, rats and other species classified as vermin, and how deer are culled in Scotland (and then used for food).

I've never shot an animal in person for real, though I've enjoyed eating lots of pigs, cattle, chickens and other animals I've paid people to kill on my behalf. I've also enjoyed playing games like the 'Deer Hunter' series on my PC and can see the appeal of hunting, because unlike what some people in this thread seem to assume, hunting game requires considerable skill and patience, and isn't like playing Duck Shoot in a theme-park game where you knock them over one after the other.

I'm looking forward to enjoying some of the pig that was killed for me and delivered in a Tesco van earlier this evening. Perhaps if I'd gone out hunting game (boar) to kill it myself, I'd appreciate it even more.

[hawkwind123]

Originally Posted by Containsnuts

I enjoy eating them

Lion steak or whole leg of zebra with a reduced red wine sauce?

[Vesna]

Originally Posted by Flight815-23D

But they do eat antelope and primates. I suppose it's more convenient to insist he'd only ever shoot something with no use at all than concede not all hunters are evil, bloodthirsty villains out to steal your children in the middle of the night and rape your women.

Antelope and Primates are NOT BIG GAME. BIB is sick and twisted, violent and ugly. It could never come out of my mind and it's certainly not a defense for wanting to kill beautiful and in many cases ENDANGERED species for shits and giggles.

Originally Posted by chipbuttie1

This is the sort of thing Scott would derive enjoyment from.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ows-sport.html

Yes that's big game hunting. Done for sport and for trophies, not for providing food.

[Nemokins]

LOL! I view it in the same way as eating - people eat meat because they enjoy it which results in animals needing to be killed to supply the meat.
He enjoys hunting whats the problem?

[PrinceGaz]

Originally Posted by hawkwind123

Lion steak or whole leg of zebra with a reduced red wine sauce?

The main threat to lions is loss of land because of ever more humans wanting to use more land.

As for zebras, African horse-meat. Theres more than enough zebras to go around.

[NatoPMT]

Originally Posted by PrinceGaz

Big game hunting in Africa is of species which are NOT endangered in any way. Primarily the sorts you see in documentaries running across rivers in their hundreds trying to avoid the crocodiles, and being preyed on by lions, leopards, cheetahs and the like on the plains (or after they die, get eaten by hyenas and other scavengers). Yes, a limited amount of hunting of other animals like elephants takes place, but that is beneficial because if their numbers were allowed to grow unchecked, they could devastate the vegetation, much like how farmers here shoot or otherwise kill rabbits, rats and other species classified as vermin, and how deer are culled in Scotland (and then used for food).

I've never shot an animal in person for real, though I've enjoyed eating lots of pigs, cattle, chickens and other animals I've paid people to kill on my behalf. I've also enjoyed playing games like the 'Deer Hunter' series on my PC and can see the appeal of hunting, because unlike what some people in this thread seem to assume, hunting game requires considerable skill and patience, and isn't like playing Duck Shoot in a theme-park game where you knock them over one after the other.

I'm looking forward to enjoying some of the pig that was killed for me and delivered in a Tesco van earlier this evening. Perhaps if I'd gone out hunting game (boar) to kill it myself, I'd appreciate it even more.

I agree that the ecology and population dynamics of African species are complicated and vary locally to individual regions and countries. However, if you want to do something that needs skill and patience, you could build a house of cards, play chess, learn an instrument/language etc etc etc...Thats a non argument

[PrinceGaz]

Originally Posted by Vesna

Antelope and Primates are NOT BIG GAME. BIB is sick and twisted, violent and ugly. It could never come out of my mind and it's certainly not a defense for wanting to kill beautiful and in many cases ENDANGERED species for shits and giggles.

Yes that's big game hunting. Done for sport and for trophies, not for providing food.

I assume you are unaware that across most of Africa, giraffes (mentioned in the link "Yes that's big game hunting") are very numerous and killing them would be like culling deer in Scotland. And as most people in rural Africa don't have a local supermarket, the trophy kills also result in a lot of meat for the people living near the wildlife reserve.

Seriously, get with the picture before talking about things you know nothing about.

[Vesna]

Originally Posted by PrinceGaz

I assume you are unaware that across most of Africa, giraffes (mentioned in the link "Yes that's big game hunting") are very numerous and killing them would be like culling deer in Scotland. And as most people in rural Africa don't have a local supermarket, the trophy kills also result in a lot of meat for the people living near the wildlife reserve.

Seriously, get with the picture before talking about things you know nothing about.

You seem to think you know me.. This is a false assumption on your part. You don't know me, you don't know what I think or what I know.

Seriously you haven't clue one about who I am and what I know. So sad I have to tell you that.

[chipbuttie1]

Big game hunting in Africa is of species which are NOT endangered in any way. Primarily the sorts you see in documentaries running across rivers in their hundreds trying to avoid the crocodiles, and being preyed on by lions, leopards, cheetahs and the like on the plains (or after they die, get eaten by hyenas and other scavengers). Yes, a limited amount of hunting of other animals like elephants takes place, but that is beneficial because if their numbers were allowed to grow unchecked, they could devastate the vegetation, much like how farmers here shoot or otherwise kill rabbits, rats and other species classified as vermin, and how deer are culled in Scotland (and then used for food).

I disagree. Lions are shot. Lions are not on the endangered list yet but they are considered vulnerable, which is just below endangered. Giraffes which are also killed have seen numbers halved and are now extinct in countries where they used to thrive. The ivory trade has always endangered elephant populatons until they were protected. 'Between 1970 and 1977, Kenya lost more than half of its elephants.' Need I add that tigers have been hunted almost to extinction. Seems like some idiots won't be happy until we're the only ones left on the planet.

[Rosie50]

Originally Posted by kimindex

Some people enjoy all sorts of depraved things. That doesn't make it acceptable. Enjoying causing harm, pain and death is pretty low on the scale of lowness. It's despicable and not caring about it is callous and cold.

Sorry kim but trying telling that to the fox who has killed 6 of my ducks and nicked the other ones neck so had to be destoyed Foxes kill for killings sake not because they are hungary If a hadf a gun I would shoot without any hesitation I wonder how many of you live in the city or Country

[Flight815-23D]

Originally Posted by Vesna

Antelope and Primates are NOT BIG GAME. BIB is sick and twisted, violent and ugly. It could never come out of my mind and it's certainly not a defense for wanting to kill beautiful and in many cases ENDANGERED species for shits and giggles.

Yes that's big game hunting. Done for sport and for trophies, not for providing food.

Except you're still ignoring the fact that in Africa, giraffes are food.

Bottom line, if people want to get their panties in a bunch because another person, of their own free will, chooses to hunt, there's nothing to stop them from doing so. The hyperbole and motives being assigned to Scott just for saying he'd like to hunt in Africa someday are excessive, and frankly, embarrassing to read.

Scott has never shot a giraffe. Scott has never even been to Africa. Scott has very likely shot animals that were then used for a meal, since he made a point of specifying "game hunting" rather than simply "hunting" which is the term used to refer to fox hunting.

KFC is warehousing and abusing millions of chickens every day. Migrant workers are suffering inhumane conditions while harvesting your vegetables. But have a hissy about Scott maybe one day trying to shoot a big animal 30 years from now with a 50/50 chance he'd even hit it. That's so much more disgusting.

[JoeToon]

Nothing wrong with veggies, she who must be obeyed is one. What I do not like is when they give me a lecture in why I am a bas**rd for eating meat and having leather shoes, then inform me that even their child and their dog are veggies, maybe, but throw a baked bone on the floor and see what the dog does.

Perhaps you could take your argument to East Africa, see if they would agree to be veggie, and not hunt bushmeat.