[Portwenn59]

Originally Posted by poorrichard54

I've noticed that in previous seasons Mark Mylow uses the "er" in Louisa. Stewart Wright had played a Cornish policeman in another series for two years prior to his two seasons with Doc Martin, so perhaps he had the Cornish accent well studied. I'm also glad that in S1 Louisa spelled out "designer clothes" when telling Martin that she "had lots of Prader." In that case the "er" was so pronounced that I would never have associated it with "Prada," the designer label, otherwise.

You're right. I forgot about the 'er' in Prada

[Biffpup]

Originally Posted by mmDerdekea

I think it's clear LG has not worked on her accent as she mentions to her visiting friend Holly in a playful, slightly disparaging way that Holly has worked on hers.

And Holly tells LG she seems to have gone more "yokel". I'm from the Southern US where there are many pronounced accents (lots of different ones, despite what Hollywood seems to think). I've noticed that accents can change or soften with Southerners who go off to college elsewhere or who live for a time in other parts of the country. But get 'em riled or stressed or nervous and that accent can come flying back with a vengeance. LG went to college in London and lived there for a time and is educated, but she's been back in PW for a long time now. Especially when angry or stressed or nervous, LouisA naturally turns right back into LouisER.

[bookfan2]

Prior to her psychotic episode, what do you think Martin thought of Mrs. Tishell? He doesn't approve of the neck collar, although it turns out that she does need it.

Does he respect her intelligence, as she hoped? Think of her as a medical professional?

In Season Two, when she speaks honestly to Louisa, we get a glimpse into her life and why she ended up with Clive. Her disdain for Eleanor and the choices she made is clear (and most agree with her assessment of Louisa's mother). Even in her psychotic break, her conversation with the newlyweds is thoughtful. And finally, in her speech at the castle, she finally calls out Martin on his on again-off again behavior with Louisa and with PW -- and for that we are grateful

I think that Martin, in his general dismissal of most PW citizens, also dismisses her. And that's not fair. I don't expect her to become friends with Martin and Louisa, especially after her psychotic breakdown, but I think Martin underestimated Sally Tishell.

Maybe Series 6 we'll see Martin begin to be more accepting of PW citizens.

[DCcurlygirl]

Just saw that MC's latest project, "A Mother's Son", will be on ITV, Sept. 3 & 4. Mark it on your calendars!

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by Biffpup

Especially when angry or stressed or nervous, LouisA naturally turns right back into LouisER.

Just a note: That "LouisA" came out from LG after the Oakwoods called her "Louise". She was simply clarifying her actual name to the Oakwoods, and not focusing on how it is pronounced when they know what it really is. Obviously she doesn't care if she is called Louisa or Louiser, as Al is a firm Louiser, for example, and DM is a firm Louisa. She never makes any comment, except to the Oakwoods, who didn't know her real name.

[NewPark]

Originally Posted by bookfan2

Prior to her psychotic episode, what do you think Martin thought of Mrs. Tishell? He doesn't approve of the neck collar, although it turns out that she does need it.

Does he respect her intelligence, as she hoped? Think of her as a medical professional?

In Season Two, when she speaks honestly to Louisa, we get a glimpse into her life and why she ended up with Clive. Her disdain for Eleanor and the choices she made is clear (and most agree with her assessment of Louisa's mother). Even in her psychotic break, her conversation with the newlyweds is thoughtful. And finally, in her speech at the castle, she finally calls out Martin on his on again-off again behavior with Louisa and with PW -- and for that we are grateful

I think that Martin, in his general dismissal of most PW citizens, also dismisses her. And that's not fair. I don't expect her to become friends with Martin and Louisa, especially after her psychotic breakdown, but I think Martin underestimated Sally Tishell.

Maybe Series 6 we'll see Martin begin to be more accepting of PW citizens.

Sadly, I don't think he thought of her at all. I think he had a certain respect for her basic competence, but as a friend, colleague, someone to share views with -- no. He was quite dismissive.

She is an interesting character, and she is presented rather sympathetically, even if played for laughs most of the time. She is quite mean in her jealousy of Louisa, though. Still, I hope she doesn't wind up trapped in the Winnebago with Clive.

[Shop Girl]

Originally Posted by DCcurlygirl

Just saw that MC's latest project, "A Mother's Son", will be on ITV, Sept. 3 & 4. Mark it on your calendars!

Anyone know how we can get to see it here in the US? Surely Connie has a way - she knows everything!

[DCcurlygirl]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

Anyone know how we can get to see it here in the US?

Sent you a PM, Shop Girl.

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by NewPark

Sadly, I don't think he thought of her at all. I think he had a certain respect for her basic competence, but as a friend, colleague, someone to share views with -- no. He was quite dismissive.

She is an interesting character, and she is presented rather sympathetically, even if played for laughs most of the time. She is quite mean in her jealousy of Louisa, though. Still, I hope she doesn't wind up trapped in the Winnebago with Clive.

I agree, NewPark. We know that "on paper" a pharmacist has certain respectable front, as DM said to LG in the S5 finale. However, as a person, or a colleague, he was quite dismissive, to her, as he was to nearly everyone else in town.

In fact, he was more than simply dismissive to her; he was entirely clueless, as well. After she kissed him and gave him her MARTIN sweater, wouldn't he have just an inkling of her infatuation with him? His utter surprise she had "clippings" of him on her dresser door in the S5 finale was kind of bizarrely funny. After all, 1) I have more clippings of him than that....but, more importantly 2) could all the clues of her constant conciliatory nature to him, wanting to have tea, cake, bisquits, spend time with him socially upstairs in the living space of her pharmacy, kiss him, make him a sweater, and such really not rung any bells inside him that she had the teensiest crush on him? But, the clippings, by jove--that did it! (okay, as well as stealing his baby and wanting to see him at The Castle).

[poorrichard54]

Originally Posted by bookfan2

Prior to her psychotic episode, what do you think Martin thought of Mrs. Tishell? He doesn't approve of the neck collar, although it turns out that she does need it.

Does he respect her intelligence, as she hoped? Think of her as a medical professional?

In Season Two, when she speaks honestly to Louisa, we get a glimpse into her life and why she ended up with Clive. Her disdain for Eleanor and the choices she made is clear (and most agree with her assessment of Louisa's mother). Even in her psychotic break, her conversation with the newlyweds is thoughtful. And finally, in her speech at the castle, she finally calls out Martin on his on again-off again behavior with Louisa and with PW -- and for that we are grateful

I think that Martin, in his general dismissal of most PW citizens, also dismisses her. And that's not fair. I don't expect her to become friends with Martin and Louisa, especially after her psychotic breakdown, but I think Martin underestimated Sally Tishell.

Maybe Series 6 we'll see Martin begin to be more accepting of PW citizens.

Yeah, I agree with you and NewPark and mmDerdekea that he dismisses her. I also agree that he doesn't really realise the extent of her fixation until he sees those clippings, and that that's slightly ridiculous given his diagnostic brilliance toward everyone else, and all the none-too subtle indicators there have been, but I think it's all meant to show us that Martin doesn't pay attention to Sally, even as much attention as he pays to random hotel waiters. She could well complain, as many a teenager has of the object of their crush in junior high: "he doesn't even know I exist." I think this is exactly the point. It makes Martin a poorer doctor toward Sally than he should be. When she drops off the MHRA bulletins and says "don't mind that they're wet, it's just where I dropped them when I fell in the bath" he should be onto that -- "what do you mean, you fell in the bath?" -- and would be with any other patient. But it's Mrs. Tishell, so he doesn't even hear her. She's just a non-entity to him and her speech is like white noise.

If Martin thinks of Sally at all, or has any inkling of her pash for him, it is registered only in the fact that he has especially strong boundaries with her. She's one of those people in the village (like Mark, like Penhale) who want to pursue friendship with him, and whose overtures to that end must be given no quarter. Sally, Mark and Joe, in their eagerness to make friends just appear to Martin as fawning and dog-like, which assures them the same kind of rebuff that Martin is always showing to the dogs that follow him. But, as I've posted before, it seems to me that in the case of the police constables, something like friendship is established, and the way to it is opened when Martin begins to empathise with, respect, and depend on them as his colleagues. Such a moderation of his dismissive, contemptuous attitude toward Sally Tishell never happens though, and I do think that's unfair. He has reason to empathise with her once he sees in S4E1 what she's up against with Clive. And until the incident with Penhale's eyedrops he finds her to be unfailingly competent, and helpful in giving him the local intell he needs to solve medical puzzles -- a colleague he can depend upon and ought to respect. I find the scene in S4E8 where he bins the jumper she has knit for him to be one of the saddest and most shocking of that season, and considering what S4 is, that's saying quite a lot!

A few pages ago (post #1897) I confessed my fondness for Sally and was trying to envision possibilities for her in S6. I hope they keep the character and I hope she does have her own story line next season. The fact that she's a woman with an absentee husband, and one who has obsessed over him and kidnapped his baby, makes much more complicated even the form of quasi-friendship with her that we have seen develop in Martin toward Mylow and Penhale. But if Martin were able to extend some form of grace and kindness toward a recovering and chastened Sally Tishell, it would be a powerful way of signalling to viewers that humanising changes were going on in him. Like his attitude toward Portwenn generally, I think Martin's attitude toward Sally Tishell is something that will have to be remediated if we are to feel satisfied with the journey his character has made by the close of this series.

[poorrichard54]

Originally Posted by NewPark

I think the set decorators are unsung heroes of the series. I wish I knew how they went about their work, who gives them direction, etc.

... and the wardrobe people. What would you all say if one of the questions for a poll were "What outfit of Louisa's seems to have the greatest effect in getting the Doc's pulse racing?" (Maybe this has already been a poll question; I greatly enjoy the polls but haven't seen that many as I just joined in July -- July 14th actually, JH's birthday). I think it's that orangey red cardy she's wearing when he tells her she "looks very...busy". She literally turns his head in this outfit in one episode. He gives it a close inspection (or is that something else he's inspecting?) when he bumps into her crushing her prawn ciabatta, and, most significantly, it's the outfit she changes into before going up to the surgery to invite him to Penhale's party. She has seen him on his doorstep with Carrie Wilson and is very jealous, and so pulls out her A-game for that encounter, checking her hair (and tongue) in the mirror before going in to see him.

Now, if I'm right that that is the outfit that Martin responds to the most, I'm wondering why. Why orangey-red? It's not a blood red, and I've already suggested that blood-red may stand for something else. I'm not an expert with the colour wheel, but I'm sure the people who design sets and choose wardrobe for Doc Martin would be. On the colour wheel, orangey-red is opposite blue-green. It seems to me that the Doc is shown to us predominately in shades of blue-green. He doesn't wear much green, but his consulting room is painted this colour. He does wear a lot of blue. He is altogether attired in the same sort of hues as a fish. Blue, Grey, Green, Brown. So I think this may be the way that the wardrobe people have of reinforcing to us the idea that with Martin and Louisa we are dealing with an attraction of opposites. Pauline is the other character in the show who seems to have a pretty consistent wardrobe palate. She is also into oranges. And she is also "opposite" the Doc -- not in the sense that they are romantically attracted, but in the sense that her kind of female-ness ("I'm not being childish, I'm being emotional!") is an extreme counterpoint to where the Doc is, in his cold, fishy, masculine severity.

[bookfan2]

I honestly don't mean to pick at poor Martin's character. I love the show, love the character, love the relationship (hopeful) with Louisa.

But...

Just as I felt that despite the pyschotic breakdown that Sally Tishell has, she deserved more respect and attention from Martin, I feel that way about Pauline as well.

Pauline is an interesting character. She too comes from a home with a miserable mother (sound familiar?). A mother who is willing to turn on her in a heartbeat, even see her sent to jail. But Pauline is competent and smart, and dependable in an emergency.His decision to send her to phlebotomy school gave her an opportunity to grow, but also helped him succeed as a GP.

And when her gambing addiction affects her work -- hmmm, we see another parallel to Martin, e.g., that a weakness can affect your ability to do your job properly. She takes control of her problem just as he eventually does of his.

Should she have opened the letter that told her Martin's intentions? Absolutely not.

Should he have given her a heads up that her job and future were in jeopardy? You bet.

I felt that his tepid letter of recommendation was a reflection of his general anger at the whole situation he was facing -- rather than a reasonable response to her service over the years.

I understand that the actress who played Pauline didn't return to the series because of other career opportunities, but I would like to see a stronger recognition on Martin's part of Pauline's role in his surgery and life in PW.

[poorrichard54]

Originally Posted by Biffpup

I finally got around to ordering "Saving Grace" from Netflix and watched it last night. I found it pleasant, funny, light-hearted, very enjoyable. But it did make me wonder why "Saving Grace" and Craig Ferguson are even mentioned in the Doc Martin credits. I knew the Doc character was going to be very different, but I'm not sure I realized just how different. He's a pot-smoking, beer-drinking, lovable bad boy. I guess I thought there would at least be some kind of tiny connection. Well, both filmed in Port Isaac. A doctor named Martin (although no one calls him Martin, or Doc Martin -- I think his first name is mentioned just once or maybe twice). That's it. So apparently the connection, and the only reason "Saving Grace" is always in the Doc Martin credits, is simply that Saving Grace begat the 2 Doc Martin movies, which begat Doc Martin the TV show.

I noticed that Grace's house was apparently supposed to be up the hill past the current DM surgery, where I believe there's actually a cliff path and no houses or roads. Visually the nightly lighting of the greenhouse was very appealing. In fact, there were several things they did in this movie that I wish they'd do in DM the show. Some of the filming took place in bad weather and even rain, and Port Isaac looks different in that kind of lighting and with the shimmer of wet streets and buildings. It imparts a different mood, a different feel to the scenes filmed in bad weather. They also filmed quite a bit of the movie at night and in early evening twilight. I liked that too and wish they'd do it in the show. The only significant exterior nighttime scene I can recall in the TV show is the break-up after the concert. It had obviously just rained too, so there's that mood thing. I wish AJ's funeral had been done the way they filmed Grace's husband's funeral, a dimly lit march on foot through the narrow streets of Port Isaac with the hearse surrounded by walking mourners. It was really a beautiful scene, so well done, and, once again, it cast a different light on the village and gave a real funereal feel to the scene that couldn't be matched in bright sunlight.

Next up for me are the 2 Doc Martin movies. Am I the last DM fan on earth to see "Saving Grace"?

Oh, it was fun seeing the actress who played Mrs. McLynn as a giggling, marijuana-tea drinker. I had problems with the actor who later played Danny in the the TV show. I couldn't past the Danny thing. My bad.

Hi Biffpup. No you're not "the last DM fan on earth to see 'Saving Grace'". I watched it last night for the first time, so read back to find these comments and found them very interesting. It does seem astonishing that Craig Ferguson and Mark Crowdy are still drawing royalties for having created the Doc Martin character when their character in Saving Grace is absolutely nothing like the Doc of the series. Unlike the two subsequent movies where Dr. Martin Bamford is the main character, he isn't even this in Saving Grace. He is a minor character who awakens drunk on his friends' sofa and is truly depicted as a marijuana fiend -- much more debauched than the cuckolded obstetrician who comes across in Doc Martin: the Movie as a basically nice and stable guy with a streak of amusing instability brought on by the meteor that has struck his life (his wife's adultery). Having seen Dr. Martin Bamford 1.0 in Saving Grace, I now see what you were saying that Dr. Martin Bamford 2.0 (from Doc Martin: the Movie) moves us closer to the Doc Martin (beta) whom we know from the series -- not that Doc Martin (beta) is a nice guy, or amusingly unstable in that way, but he is similarly vulnerable and basically sympathetic.

I also really like your comments about the effect which filming in different weathers and times of day gives to the feel of Port Isaac/Portwenn. I wish that after-the-rain/early evening light we saw in the concert/break up/proposal episode were used more often. In Doc Martin: the movie, and in Saving Grace there is a church yard that is featured. We never see that in the series, and when we do see a church yard, as at Elaine's father's wedding, or at Aunt Joan's funeral, it is a different one. The one featured in the movies, seems to look straight over the ocean (not the harbour, but a wilder bit of coast). It is quite beautiful, and apart from On the Edge where we see a bit of sea-cliff and the shots of Pentyre Castle in S5E8 which is that sort of windswept scape as well, we hardly ever see that wild and austere face of Cornwall at all in the series. (Bodmin Moor is austere, but in a different way). The funeral procession is a visually memorable scene from Saving Grace. (It reminded me a bit of where the fishermen carry the injured Holly up to Louisa's cottage on a driftwood door). I agree with others here that Aunt Joan's funeral was played for laughs, when it might have been been a better choice to leave viewers with a strong visual memory of something very eloquent, as a monument of all that Joan's character had meant to Martin, to the community and to the series.

Tristan Sturrock's character in Saving Grace is a believer in apocalyticism and alien invasion. By the time of Doc Martin: the Movie, although his character is still called, Harvey, it is quite a different character that he plays -- much more down to earth and quite likeable (though possibly involved in incest with his sister ). He morphs again when he shows up as Danny Steele in the Doc Martin series. I didn't like his character much in Saving Grace, whereas in Doc Martin: the Movie, I quite liked him. I also thought in his Danny Steele incarnation that he wasn't all bad. He would make a good husband for somebody, just not for Louisa.

Biff, tell me when you watch the Legend of the Cloutie, as I've recently seen that one again too, and am interested in hearing your take.

[Conniej]

Originally Posted by statesidefan

Hi, Connie

I don't know how you pull up all of this. Thank you, thank you! BTW I see you are from Portland and I'm in the city myself during the week for my job - then back to my home in Orange County! It's Doc Martin tomorrow night on OPB, right?

Wow - that's quite a commute! Yes, actually DM is on
4 times a week. There are 2 OPB channels, 10-1 and 10-2. Tonight it's on 10-1 @ 9PM.

[Conniej]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

Anyone know how we can get to see it here in the US? Surely Connie has a way - she knows everything!

Well, you can always watch it on ITV if you have Expat Shield or TunnelBear for Mac. I think some have had issues but ES works for me. However, my crystal ball tells me that it will show up on YT.

[poorrichard54]

Originally Posted by bookfan2

I honestly don't mean to pick at poor Martin's character. I love the show, love the character, love the relationship (hopeful) with Louisa.

But...

Just as I felt that despite the pyschotic breakdown that Sally Tishell has, she deserved more respect and attention from Martin, I feel that way about Pauline as well.

Pauline is an interesting character. She too comes from a home with a miserable mother (sound familiar?). A mother who is willing to turn on her in a heartbeat, even see her sent to jail. But Pauline is competent and smart, and dependable in an emergency.His decision to send her to phlebotomy school gave her an opportunity to grow, but also helped him succeed as a GP.

And when her gambing addiction affects her work -- hmmm, we see another parallel to Martin, e.g., that a weakness can affect your ability to do your job properly. She takes control of her problem just as he eventually does of his.

Should she have opened the letter that told her Martin's intentions? Absolutely not.

Should he have given her a heads up that her job and future were in jeopardy? You bet.

I felt that his tepid letter of recommendation was a reflection of his general anger at the whole situation he was facing -- rather than a reasonable response to her service over the years.

I understand that the actress who played Pauline didn't return to the series because of other career opportunities, but I would like to see a stronger recognition on Martin's part of Pauline's role in his surgery and life in PW.

Pauline IS an interesting character, indeed, and I don’t absolutely know that I like her. The first thing that strikes me about her is that she is ambitious, perhaps properly so, for herself and her prospects, but I think she can be rather mercenary in pursuing her own interests. We saw this with her decision to open the letter from Imperial. We saw it in the way she sabotaged Polly. We saw it in the way she manipulated Louisa to let her in to the wedding party. And although Ross of the Coast-guard is a user of the opposite sex and therefore not very sympathetic, she was rather mercenary in the way that she used him too, in order to find out from Al what she needed to know. I doubt, now that Pauline is studying nursing in Bristol, that she will often put herself out to come to the village even for red-letter events such as the funeral of Aunt Joan, not even if Al should beg her. There’s a good share of narcissism in Pauline’s personality. How she loved that portrait of herself on the surgery wall that Penhale’s brother painted! In Pauline’s mind, she is the heart and soul of Portwenn surgery. What the Doc does with the patients is just ancilliary to the primary patient care she offers from the nerve centre that is her desk.

I always have this sense with Pauline that she is running her own little fiefdom. She establishes her power-base by taking that photo of the Doc on the morning he was so out of countenance, by pumping Dave the postman for information about the Doc's “pyjama party,” by storing up for later use that knowledge of questionable websites that the Doctor was browsing. The phlebotomy duties only increase Pauline’s power-base and as much as she uses her skills to help the Doc, she does this not out of kindness, but because it is satisfying to her to be able to do something that he can’t; it contributes to her sense that she is indispensible to him and that he would certainly fall apart without her. I find Pauline’s remarks quite cutting toward the Doc on his last day, and they show us something of her true colours, now that she has nothing left to lose in saying them: “are you sure you’ll be OK in London? I won’t be there to help you with the blood when you’re hiding in the corner like a little girl.” …And when she points out that his desk is in the moving van, but her desk is still in the reception area. In other words: “I’ve won, I’m the survivor here, your kingdom has fallen, but my fiefdom remains intact.” Pauline is all the more dangerous because she doesn’t use her power indiscriminately. She bides her time. She seeks to cultivate trust and dependency. She’s passive aggressive.

Pauline also has this ghoulishness going on. She likes the blood a little too much. She loves to be a first responder at scenes of gruesomeness and human drama. She is, in her way, as able to objectify people as the Doc. Their life-threatening crisis is seen only in the light of its being an opportunity for her to shine. Pauline is able to look with great detachment at the love affair of Doc Martin and Louisa also. It is not that she is cheering for them – Pauline is not really on anybody’s side, except for Pauline’s. When Louisa first returns to the village, Pauline clearly thinks the Doc should have offered her a place to stay, but is this because she admires Louisa’s strength and dignity, and has compassion for her in her condition, or because she delights in needling the Doc about what he probably already feels is his ungentlemanly behaviour? She needles Louisa too – at the non-wedding, at the baby shower. In fact I don’t think Pauline has a genuine respect for Louisa’s strength and dignity at all. In the birth episode she says: “you know what she’s like, she’ll want him there” almost as if this is a weakness on Louisa’s part, to want the father of her child supporting her at the time of its birth.

These are the troubling things I see in Pauline’s character, and yet I do like her. I feel for her in all the areas in which she complains against Al for not being a proper boyfriend. Al needs work for sure, and I respect Pauline for insisting that he work on himself (that he be honest with her, that he communicate with her, that he not neglect her when he’s away in Africa, that he be loyal to her, that he work at developing friends of his own, that he be a bit more romantic, that he give her space to spread her own wings a little, instead of trying to sabotage her and tie her down). I think she does genuinely care for him, as much as she cares for anybody. We see this in the episode where Al is lost in the woods with Mark. Pauline and Al’s relationship is real in a way that Mark and Julie’s isn’t. I think she also cares for the patients who come through the surgery to a degree, or at least makes them feel that she does, and that is a much needed balance to the way the Doc is. She is not incompetent like Elaine is, and totally uncaring as to whether she takes down messages about sick children correctly, or gets prescriptions administered to the right people. Pauline wants to do her job well, not only as a matter of pride, but because she does see that people beside herself matter. As you’ve noted, Pauline also has one of those mothers to contend with. We admire Pauline, I think, for rising above it -- for exceeding expectation -- and we root for her. When the Doc sees her ambition to better herself and the unpromising stock from which she arises, the Doc roots for her too.

Is it necessary to the Doc’s remediation to give Pauline a little more respect and appreciation than what he has? I see that reference he wrote her as totally in character. He also says of Poppy, who showed real promise I thought and would have pleased the Doc a lot better if it were not for Pauline’s interference, that she was “adequate…sort of.” The Doc is not one to hand out bouquets – if you can avoid a rebuke, it’s been a good day. In these terms, "competent" was quite a complimentary admission. It was Pauline’s own inflated sense that she was indispensible to the running of that surgery, which caused her to be so offended. I also don’t think the Doc would consider that “competent” would ever damage Pauline’s chances of another good job – "damning her with faint praise," as it were, in the eyes of another prospective employer. I do blame him a little for not amplifying the reference when Al pointed out to him that this is the effect such a letter may well have. The Doc of S1 would have cared enough to take corrective action. The Doc of S4 hardly cares at all. Whatever kind of position the Doc left Pauline in with respect to finding another job, I think his words on his last day did mollify her. He says that he wishes her “good luck” and that he “appreciates” everything she has done. This is the acknowledgement her pride was demanding, and he gives it to her. In her turn, she teases him about being in love with her, because she can tease him now as she has often, no doubt, longed to, without fear of reprisal. And then she pictures him rather unkindly “hiding like a little girl” as he tries to do surgery in London. She is a bit of a dominatrix in this scene. I find it quite funny, and what Martin says, quite touching (especially because it’s so hard for him), but if that’s what Pauline is going to do with the respect and appreciation that the Doc is willing to give her, I’m not sure I need to see him give her any more in S6 than he already has done.

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by Shop Girl

Anyone know how we can get to see it here in the US? Surely Connie has a way - she knows everything!

Yes, I would like to know if that's possible, too!

[bookfan2]

Originally Posted by poorrichard54

Pauline IS an interesting character, indeed, and I don’t absolutely know that I like her.

The phlebotomy duties only increase Pauline’s power-base and as much as she uses her skills to help the Doc, she does this not out of kindness, but because it is satisfying to her to be able to do something that he can’t; it contributes to her sense that she is indispensible to him and that he would certainly fall apart without her.

And when she points out that his desk is in the moving van, but her desk is still in the reception area. In other words: “I’ve won, I’m the survivor here, your kingdom has fallen, but my fiefdom remains intact.”

In fact I don’t think Pauline has a genuine respect for Louisa’s strength and dignity at all. In the birth episode she says: “you know what she’s like, she’ll want him there” almost as if this is a weakness on Louisa’s part, to want the father of her child supporting her at the time of its birth.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Pauline

I don't think that Pauline has had many opportunities in life -- with a miserable family life and limited education. I think that she's smart and is trying to make something of herself. Becoming a phlebotomist looks like the first time someone has given her the chance to do more with her life. And while it's good that Martin provided the opportunity, it was a win-win for them both. He needed her -- and she was thrilled with the opportunity.

But there wasn't a time he needed her to hustle that she didn't respond - literally and figuratively. From racing to the beach with his bag in order to save the young boy who had been stung, to helping Martin while he was lost in the woods, to finding a nearby pub to save Tommy. She was steady and effective. Yes, she should have been, but I didn't see any efforts to make herself the center of attention.

It may well be that compliments are hard won from Martin Ellingham and one should be grateful for any tidbit he hands out -- but he is also an adult who has been in the workforce for many years. I find it hard to believe that he would think his recommendation that someone was "competent" would be considered high praise. Pauline deserved better than that -- and merely thanking her before leaving would have done little to secure her a new job. Martin has money and didn't ever know what it was like to lead a hardscrabble life. I'd have rather him put his effort into a good recommendation than into words that no one heard.

Finally, I took her comment about Louisa and her desire to have Martin at the birth as a compliment about the kind of woman Louisa is at heart. That no matter how angry she may be with Martin, Louisa's instinct is to do the right thing -- and that was to include the father of her child at the birth.

Pauline was a good match for Martin Ellingham. Every bit as responsible as he -- except for when in the throes of her gambling addiction

[mmDerdekea]

Originally Posted by poorrichard54

Pauline IS an interesting character, indeed, and I don’t absolutely know that I like her. The first thing that strikes me about her is that she is ambitious, perhaps properly so, for herself and her prospects, but I think she can be rather mercenary in pursuing her own interests. We saw this with her decision to open the letter from Imperial. We saw it in the way she sabotaged Polly. We saw it in the way she manipulated Louisa to let her in to the wedding party. And although Ross of the Coast-guard is a user of the opposite sex and therefore not very sympathetic, she was rather mercenary in the way that she used him too, in order to find out from Al what she needed to know. I doubt, now that Pauline is studying nursing in Bristol, that she will often put herself out to come to the village even for red-letter events such as the funeral of Aunt Joan, not even if Al should beg her. There’s a good share of narcissism in Pauline’s personality. How she loved that portrait of herself on the surgery wall that Penhale’s brother painted! In Pauline’s mind, she is the heart and soul of Portwenn surgery. What the Doc does with the patients is just ancilliary to the primary patient care she offers from the nerve centre that is her desk.

I always have this sense with Pauline that she is running her own little fiefdom. She establishes her power-base by taking that photo of the Doc on the morning he was so out of countenance, by pumping Dave the postman for information about the Doc's “pyjama party,” by storing up for later use that knowledge of questionable websites that the Doctor was browsing. The phlebotomy duties only increase Pauline’s power-base and as much as she uses her skills to help the Doc, she does this not out of kindness, but because it is satisfying to her to be able to do something that he can’t; it contributes to her sense that she is indispensible to him and that he would certainly fall apart without her. I find Pauline’s remarks quite cutting toward the Doc on his last day, and they show us something of her true colours, now that she has nothing left to lose in saying them: “are you sure you’ll be OK in London? I won’t be there to help you with the blood when you’re hiding in the corner like a little girl.” …And when she points out that his desk is in the moving van, but her desk is still in the reception area. In other words: “I’ve won, I’m the survivor here, your kingdom has fallen, but my fiefdom remains intact.” Pauline is all the more dangerous because she doesn’t use her power indiscriminately. She bides her time. She seeks to cultivate trust and dependency. She’s passive aggressive.

Pauline also has this ghoulishness going on. She likes the blood a little too much. She loves to be a first responder at scenes of gruesomeness and human drama. She is, in her way, as able to objectify people as the Doc. Their life-threatening crisis is seen only in the light of its being an opportunity for her to shine. Pauline is able to look with great detachment at the love affair of Doc Martin and Louisa also. It is not that she is cheering for them – Pauline is not really on anybody’s side, except for Pauline’s. When Louisa first returns to the village, Pauline clearly thinks the Doc should have offered her a place to stay, but is this because she admires Louisa’s strength and dignity, and has compassion for her in her condition, or because she delights in needling the Doc about what he probably already feels is his ungentlemanly behaviour? She needles Louisa too – at the non-wedding, at the baby shower. In fact I don’t think Pauline has a genuine respect for Louisa’s strength and dignity at all. In the birth episode she says: “you know what she’s like, she’ll want him there” almost as if this is a weakness on Louisa’s part, to want the father of her child supporting her at the time of its birth.

These are the troubling things I see in Pauline’s character, and yet I do like her. I feel for her in all the areas in which she complains against Al for not being a proper boyfriend. Al needs work for sure, and I respect Pauline for insisting that he work on himself (that he be honest with her, that he communicate with her, that he not neglect her when he’s away in Africa, that he be loyal to her, that he work at developing friends of his own, that he be a bit more romantic, that he give her space to spread her own wings a little, instead of trying to sabotage her and tie her down). I think she does genuinely care for him, as much as she cares for anybody. We see this in the episode where Al is lost in the woods with Mark. Pauline and Al’s relationship is real in a way that Mark and Julie’s isn’t. I think she also cares for the patients who come through the surgery to a degree, or at least makes them feel that she does, and that is a much needed balance to the way the Doc is. She is not incompetent like Elaine is, and totally uncaring as to whether she takes down messages about sick children correctly, or gets prescriptions administered to the right people. Pauline wants to do her job well, not only as a matter of pride, but because she does see that people beside herself matter. As you’ve noted, Pauline also has one of those mothers to contend with. We admire Pauline, I think, for rising above it -- for exceeding expectation -- and we root for her. When the Doc sees her ambition to better herself and the unpromising stock from which she arises, the Doc roots for her too.

Is it necessary to the Doc’s remediation to give Pauline a little more respect and appreciation than what he has? I see that reference he wrote her as totally in character. He also says of Poppy, who showed real promise I thought and would have pleased the Doc a lot better if it were not for Pauline’s interference, that she was “adequate…sort of.” The Doc is not one to hand out bouquets – if you can avoid a rebuke, it’s been a good day. In these terms, "competent" was quite a complimentary admission. It was Pauline’s own inflated sense that she was indispensible to the running of that surgery, which caused her to be so offended. I also don’t think the Doc would consider that “competent” would ever damage Pauline’s chances of another good job – "damning her with faint praise," as it were, in the eyes of another prospective employer. I do blame him a little for not amplifying the reference when Al pointed out to him that this is the effect such a letter may well have. The Doc of S1 would have cared enough to take corrective action. The Doc of S4 hardly cares at all. Whatever kind of position the Doc left Pauline in with respect to finding another job, I think his words on his last day did mollify her. He says that he wishes her “good luck” and that he “appreciates” everything she has done. This is the acknowledgement her pride was demanding, and he gives it to her. In her turn, she teases him about being in love with her, because she can tease him now as she has often, no doubt, longed to, without fear of reprisal. And then she pictures him rather unkindly “hiding like a little girl” as he tries to do surgery in London. She is a bit of a dominatrix in this scene. I find it quite funny, and what Martin says, quite touching (especially because it’s so hard for him), but if that’s what Pauline is going to do with the respect and appreciation that the Doc is willing to give her, I’m not sure I need to see him give her any more in S6 than he already has done.

Really nice analysis about Pauline, poorrichard2, and I always respect your insights, but like bookfan2 I don't agree wholly with it. I do think Pauline is very self-serving and trying to make a place that elevates her worth to herself, to the surgery, the village, and to DM. I do think she has some mean sides to her as well as you so ably described, and can be passive aggressive. Her support of DM getting married and then the nasty comments about DM to LG throughout the S3 finale, stabbing him in the back over and over, showed a very unflattering picture of Pauline, and I liked her least of all at that moment.

I don't believe the last conversation she had with DM, in S4 finale, whereby she mentioned his desk was packed but hers was was supposed to be about his fallen kingdom while she was still reigning. DM is moving on to a bright new career future and getting out of an outlying GP post he is happy to leave. Pauline is staying behind to work for a new, unknown doc in the same old village she complained to Al in "On The Edge" she didn't want to get stuck in. Yes, she gets to change the patient organization, but that's not that much higher on the progressive rung in life, as is DM's new position. So, to interpret it as having Pauline lord that over DM is not the correct interpretation, I think, at least for me. I think it was a bit of humor, and fact, a little dig that now that's he essentially gone, she is, right then, until the new doc arrives, in charge, for a day.

I really don't see her as "ghoulish", either. She doesn't revel in the blood, and doesn't like it spattered all over the place; she revels in her skill and value to DM and the patients. She likes to be in on the action--and as bookfan2 wrote--was super helpful all the time to bring DM's medical bag when a crisis occurred. But when she saw the baker's very bloodied palm in "On the Edge", having the mistaken thought she'd start caring for it, she let out a loud scream. Being that close to the blood was not something she welcomed at all and she was certainly happy to turn the baker over to the disapproving DM. Morwenna is more "into" the blood and surgery, by far.

When Pauline says "LG will want him there" in S4 finale, I actually thought that was quite sweet. I didn't see it at all as lack of respect of LG's strength or dignity, but that LG loved DM and giving birth to their baby, would want her love by her side. Drawing strength from the man you love is not lose of dignity; it's sharing in something beautiful together. I thought Pauline was saying what we all knew, that LG felt strong love for DM, just as we are soon to see DM acknowledge the same for LG.

Last, we're not sure Pauline is at nursing school in S5--Al said she could not get away from her work in Bristol, not her education. It's nice, though, to know Pauline and Al are still in contact.

[Shop Girl]

Originally Posted by Conniej

Well, you can always watch it on ITV if you have Expat Shield or TunnelBear for Mac. I think some have had issues but ES works for me. However, my crystal ball tells me that it will show up on YT.

Yeah - I'm going to experiment with the Expat Shield and watch for the YT. I knew you would be in he loop Connie whatever would we do without you?

[statesidefan]

Originally Posted by bookfan2

I find it hard to believe that he would think his recommendation that someone was "competent" would be considered high praise. Pauline deserved better than that -- and merely thanking her before leaving would have done little to secure her a

I wonder about the assessment of "competent." When I was in graduate school, my major professor - quite renowned - wrote a recommendation for me and described me as "competent." I was absolutely devastated. Turns out that word was recognized in my field as a very good evaluation of my work, especially coming from such a respected mentor. Is it possible the Martin-Pauline situation is a corollary?

[bookfan2]

Originally Posted by statesidefan

I wonder about the assessment of "competent." When I was in graduate school, my major professor - quite renowned - wrote a recommendation for me and described me as "competent." I was absolutely devastated. Turns out that word was recognized in my field as a very good evaluation of my work, especially coming from such a respected mentor. Is it possible the Martin-Pauline situation is a corollary?

I don't think so in this case. Had that been the writer's intention, I think someone would have given the explanation, perhaps even Martin sputtering it to Al. You may be right that Martin intended it as praise, and perhaps had the job been specialized, it would have been appropriate. But Pauline was applying for receptionist jobs and "competent" without other strong adjectives to describe her work was a limited endorsement.

I guess I would have expected a good boss to have made an effort to place a good, loyal employee in a new job and to have revised the letter if his intention was good, but the employee pointed out that the letter wasn't helpful.

Finally, Martin got the PW job and the job at Imperial, at least in part, through networking and the recommendations of professional colleagues. He doesn't seem to have extended the courtesy to Pauline.

[Biffpup]

Originally Posted by poorrichard54

Hi Biffpup. No you're not "the last DM fan on earth to see 'Saving Grace'". I watched it last night for the first time, so read back to find these comments and found them very interesting. It does seem astonishing that Craig Ferguson and Mark Crowdy are still drawing royalties for having created the Doc Martin character when their character in Saving Grace is absolutely nothing like the Doc of the series. Unlike the two subsequent movies where Dr. Martin Bamford is the main character, he isn't even this in Saving Grace. He is a minor character who awakens drunk on his friends' sofa and is truly depicted as a marijuana fiend -- much more debauched than the cuckolded obstetrician who comes across in Doc Martin: the Movie as a basically nice and stable guy with a streak of amusing instability brought on by the meteor that has struck his life (his wife's adultery). Having seen Dr. Martin Bamford 1.0 in Saving Grace, I now see what you were saying that Dr. Martin Bamford 2.0 (from Doc Martin: the Movie) moves us closer to the Doc Martin (beta) whom we know from the series -- not that Doc Martin (beta) is a nice guy, or amusingly unstable in that way, but he is similarly vulnerable and basically sympathetic.

I also really like your comments about the effect which filming in different weathers and times of day gives to the feel of Port Isaac/Portwenn. I wish that after-the-rain/early evening light we saw in the concert/break up/proposal episode were used more often. In Doc Martin: the movie, and in Saving Grace there is a church yard that is featured. We never see that in the series, and when we do see a church yard, as at Elaine's father's wedding, or at Aunt Joan's funeral, it is a different one. The one featured in the movies, seems to look straight over the ocean (not the harbour, but a wilder bit of coast). It is quite beautiful, and apart from On the Edge where we see a bit of sea-cliff and the shots of Pentyre Castle in S5E8 which is that sort of windswept scape as well, we hardly ever see that wild and austere face of Cornwall at all in the series. (Bodmin Moor is austere, but in a different way). The funeral procession is a visually memorable scene from Saving Grace. (It reminded me a bit of where the fishermen carry the injured Holly up to Louisa's cottage on a driftwood door). I agree with others here that Aunt Joan's funeral was played for laughs, when it might have been been a better choice to leave viewers with a strong visual memory of something very eloquent, as a monument of all that Joan's character had meant to Martin, to the community and to the series.

Tristan Sturrock's character in Saving Grace is a believer in apocalyticism and alien invasion. By the time of Doc Martin: the Movie, although his character is still called, Harvey, it is quite a different character that he plays -- much more down to earth and quite likeable (though possibly involved in incest with his sister ). He morphs again when he shows up as Danny Steele in the Doc Martin series. I didn't like his character much in Saving Grace, whereas in Doc Martin: the Movie, I quite liked him. I also thought in his Danny Steele incarnation that he wasn't all bad. He would make a good husband for somebody, just not for Louisa.

Biff, tell me when you watch the Legend of the Cloutie, as I've recently seen that one again too, and am interested in hearing your take.

Legend of the Cloutie is next up from Netflix, but I have the cheapest low-tech plan they offer (they may not even offer it new anymore) so I'm in a little "pause" mode. Cloutie may arrive sometime next week. Yes, after I watch it, I'll certainly post my thoughts.

Cc.Cookie reminded me of another nighttime DM scene and I thought of one more. So we've only got three (that I can remember). In S1 E4 (The Portwenn Effect) it's at night, during the dance, when Stuart the ranger goes berserk attacking bird tables. I actually like the use of the motion sensor light in that scene. It's very creative. Then there's S1 E6 (Haemophobia), in which the Peter Cronk emergency scene all takes place late at night. This is the scene cc.Cookie remembered. I think the fact that it happened and was filmed at night added to the drama and urgency. And there's S3 E5, the break-up scene in the car, in the darkness, shortly after a rain. The darkness, wet car windows, wet PW streets are very effective in adding to the sadness of the moment.

You're right about the carrying of Holly through the streets of PW in S3 E5. It was like a funeral (a funeral for the relationship between DM and LG?). But I do wish they'd given us more drama and sensitivity at AJ's funeral, although, unlike most, I don't have a problem with the dropping of the coffin. Strange things can happen at funerals (my dressed to the nines cousin actually fell into the grave at my grandmother's funeral!) and this is Portwenn, after all.

Yes, Tristan Sturrock's character in Doc Martin The Movie is much more likeable. I agree. I still had trouble getting Danny out of my mind, though that's my own personal problem.

[Biffpup]

I like Pauline. I miss her. Her role in some ways was to keep the Doc from getting too pompous, too full of himself. She wasn't intimidated by his bluster and Big Chief attitude. The two were at times like a comedy team (Doc was usually the straight man). Now appearing nightly, the comedy team of Ellingham & Lamb. We should be able to watch their routines at I Keep Forgetting I'm Just A Receptionist.com.

Remember the scene in which AJ came into the surgery to find DM & Pauline shouting back and forth at each other between the consulting room and the waiting room as he tried to find something? Sorry -- I can't remember which episode that was. Anyhoo, they were behaving almost like an old married couple. I believe the fact is that Pauline is the one and only person who could get away with saying something like, "when you're hiding in the corner like a little girl". Note that the Doc wasn't insulted by that, didn't react negatively. He knew she spoke the truth and there was no point in fighting it.

The fact that the surgery did seem almost like Pauline's "fiefdom" was a good thing, in my opinion. It added a sense of balance. At the same time, she tended to be on the Doc's side. When the creepy "doctor's friend" first showed up in On the Edge, she told him he would need an appointment. He explained self-importantly who he was. Pauline's response: You'll still need an appointment.

And Doc often backed her up too. He told her mother ("you horrible woman") to get out. He took control of the situation when the scooter was repossessed and recommended Gamblers Anonymous. He sent her to the phlebotomy course and turned over the bloodwork to her. He showed respect and gratitude to her when thanking her on what he thought was his last day at the surgery.

I think Pauline also played a role almost as one of us observing the DM/LG relationship. In S4 E2 when DM and LG were arguing after the Mr. Strain incident, she said, "You two..." in a way that told me she, and only she, knew that this separation was temporary, that they were, in fact, still a couple, only briefly estranged. Her admonition to DM early in the same episode not to take advantage just because a woman's strong, and her response to Doc's saying LG stopped by "to say hello" put her almost in the viewer's seat too, but she, unlike us viewers out here shouting at our TV's, actually had a voice.

Same thing at the harbor as it seemed we all witnessed the birth courtesy of Pauline with her cell phone and then a microphone, sharing it with the villagers and with us. Her dry color commentary added to the humor of the moment, and when she said LG would change her mind and want DM in there, along with "You know what she's like", I felt that Pauline was talking to me as one of the villagers.

No, Pauline wasn't perfect. I hated the fact that the writers used her as one of the voices giving LG second thoughts in the non-wedding episode. She shouldn't have steamed open Doc's letter from Imperial (if she hadn't, we wouldn't have known what it said), but DM should have been more honest with her about what was going on. She probably shouldn't have taken the photo of DM on the floor with the dog and shared it with everyone (but would anyone really want to lose that scene?). But she helped Doc with his "blood and stuff" and his "fear and stuff" and she was generally loyal and efficient in her own way. And she was very funny, one of my favorite characters.

[Biffpup]

Originally Posted by mmDerdekea

I really don't see her as "ghoulish", either. She doesn't revel in the blood, and doesn't like it spattered all over the place; she revels in her skill and value to DM and the patients. She likes to be in on the action--and as bookfan2 wrote--was super helpful all the time to bring DM's medical bag when a crisis occurred. But when she saw the baker's very bloodied palm in "On the Edge", having the mistaken thought she'd start caring for it, she let out a loud scream. Being that close to the blood was not something she welcomed at all and she was certainly happy to turn the baker over to the disapproving DM. Morwenna is more "into" the blood and surgery, by far.

When Pauline says "LG will want him there" in S4 finale, I actually thought that was quite sweet. I didn't see it at all as lack of respect of LG's strength or dignity, but that LG loved DM and giving birth to their baby, would want her love by her side. Drawing strength from the man you love is not lose of dignity; it's sharing in something beautiful together. I thought Pauline was saying what we all knew, that LG felt strong love for DM, just as we are soon to see DM acknowledge the same for LG.

I meant to mention the "ghoulishness" too in my previous post. As you said, Mona, when Pauline saw just how bloody the baker's hand was, she let out a screech. She also made a kind of "ick" sound (and eew face) when she saw that Mrs. Avrill was coughing up blood. I think Doc's point that blood didn't seem to bother her too much was correct. She wasn't overly fascinated with it, but it didn't cause an extremely negative reaction. In my opinion, there wasn't a blood ghoulishness thing going on with Pauline; she just liked being in on the action.

I also agree with your take on the "she'll want him there" comment. I don't see this as a weakness and I don't think Pauline does either. Once again, this is a kind of Pauline-as-narrator moment and, as I said in my previous post, I see Pauline as a kind of "us" person, watching this relationship progress, then falter, then progress. She, however, is portrayed as knowing the truth.

PoorRichard, I apologize for not saying in my earlier post how much I enjoyed your analysis of the Pauline character. I was glad to see that, in the end, you do have a fondness for her. I agree with your description of her relationship with Al. That we as fans invested so much in the Pauline-Al relationship only to have it mysteriously snatched away without much of an explanation was one of the big S5 problems.