[EEfan24]

Hi

The other day I bought a small fancy goldfish and a tank but now having done some research I am really worried about the size of the tank. It is only 4 gallons and I keep reading goldfish need a minimum of 10 gallons each The aquatic centre where I bought it also sold me KH and NO2 testing kits to monitor the water quality (and said they would sell me another fish after a few weeks of doing this which I'm now thinking is an even worse idea).

So basically my question is what do I do? Will my goldfish suffer and if so how long until this will start to happen? I simply cannot afford to buy a huge tank at the moment but will it be ok in this 1 for a while and then I could buy a bigger one at a later date?

The staff seemed very competent so I'm shocked they sold me everything without questioning whether I can get a bigger tank.

[xdow]

Sadly, its common practice in the trade to sell sell sell on very little advice as well as asking few questions.

your fish will be okay in the tank that you have for a while (i had 2 in a 2 gallon tank for months without knowing any better - even then i only managed to upgrade to a 60L tank, one perished due to being fed something unsuitable by a visiting child, the other lived on for 6 years before succumbing to a fungal infection & then being picked at by other fish. i euthanasised him as i could tell he wasn't coming back from it)

so long as the water is filtered and changes carried out regularly, he'll be okay for a bit, but a bigger tank will definitely be needed sooner rather than later to prevent stunted growth
it's incredibly hard to keep good water quality in a small tank with cold water fish, as they excrete a lot of waste, so getting the larger tank will make life a bit easier for you as well as more enjoyable for the fish.

[Shrike]

I would think even 10 gallons is too small really. Does it have a pump & filter? If not then fishy is going to be struggling - you can help by regular water changes, but maybe a kinder, temporary solution, would be to buy a plastic storage box - you can pick up ones that hold 10 gallons for about a tenner in Home Bargins. The fish won't care that it cant see out, but will appreciate the extra room to swim and the larger volume of water will give you more opportunity to realise the water quality is getting poor. If you do this I wouldn't bother putting gravel in so as to help with cleaning.
Goldfish are very hardy and can survive in these small tanks, but 'survive' isn't really what we want for our pets - a 90 - 120 cm tank will give your fish the room it needs for excercise and a safe volume of water for its health.

[EEfan24]

It has a filter but no pump, and yes I am going to be carrying out regular water changes and testing using the kits I have been given to check the water quality. Thank you for your advice, I'm going to go and question where I got them from and see what they say. When you say it will be OK for a while, is a while weeks/months/a year ?

Also, I have been told to do weekly 10% water changes but surely a lot of the waste is in the gravel? How am I supposed to clean the gravel if only doing 10% water change?

[bazaar1]

Originally Posted by EEfan24

It has a filter but no pump, and yes I am going to be carrying out regular water changes and testing using the kits I have been given to check the water quality. Thank you for your advice, I'm going to go and question where I got them from and see what they say. When you say it will be OK for a while, is a while weeks/months/a year ?

Also, I have been told to do weekly 10% water changes but surely a lot of the waste is in the gravel? How am I supposed to clean the gravel if only doing 10% water change?

You need a syphon, they're pretty cheap, they will pull the dirt and grime plus water from the bottom.

[xdow]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...supplies&psc=1

that's the kind of thing i use, you can get different sizes, just use it when you do the water changes, it sucks up the crud from in the gravel while emptying the amount of water you want to change.

you might well have to do more than 10% water changes in order to keep the water quality at the moment
and obviously adding a water conditioner to any new water before topping up the tank.


as for the "a while" i would say 5-6 months as an *absolute maximum* and that's if you can keep the water quality good in the mean time.
the sooner you can upgrade, the better for the fish really.

[Shrike]

If you have a filter then I assume it has an integral water pump too - else the water won't circulate through the filter. Unless the fish shop really is staffed by complete numpties who sold you a filter unit with no circulation.
I don't think you necessarily need an air pump ( for an air stone) though if the fish starts 'gasping' at the surface that would be the best way to aerate the water until you've sorted out the underlying problem.

[EEfan24]

Originally Posted by Shrike

If you have a filter then I assume it has an integral water pump too - else the water won't circulate through the filter. Unless the fish shop really is staffed by complete numpties who sold you a filter unit with no circulation.
I don't think you necessarily need an air pump ( for an air stone) though if the fish starts 'gasping' at the surface that would be the best way to aerate the water until you've sorted out the underlying problem.

I can see the water coming out the filter where it's been through it (sorry I'm useless at describing!) so yes I'd assume it has some kind of pump in it. I have found a reasonably sized and priced tank I think, providing I stick with having just 1 fish. Hold about 11 gallons. Any opinions everyone?

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aq...m.html#reviews

[lym]

Originally Posted by EEfan24

I can see the water coming out the filter where it's been through it (sorry I'm useless at describing!) so yes I'd assume it has some kind of pump in it. I have found a reasonably sized and priced tank I think, providing I stick with having just 1 fish. Hold about 11 gallons. Any opinions everyone?

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aq...m.html#reviews

Look on ebay, you can get much bigger tanks for less than that price.

[Shrike]

You have to bear in mind that the fish will grow, quite fast in its early years

Heres a nice article that illustrates this:
Goldfish size and life expectancy

You can expect your fish to live for about 12 years and grow to 20cm. Its a myth that they will 'grow to the size of the tank' - what actually happens is the fish becomes stunted with internal problems from poor water quality and lack of exercise and will usually die young before reaching full size.
If you can't accomodate the size of tank you'll need for a goldfish (I know I'd struggle - its not just room, its the weight of water on my wooden floor, not to mention the weight of the empty tank to move about!) then maybe take the whole lot back and demand a refund as what they've sold you isn't fit for purpose.
If space is a problem maybe look into keeping a different type of fish? I know Siamese fighters can live in fairly small tanks, and due to their natural environment (small pools) they actually dislike big tanks. I'd recomend some reading first though

[EEfan24]

Thank you for all your help and advice everyone. I can't believe, after researching, the reality for fish being kept in these small tanks. I will most definitely be investing in a bigger tank for the guy in the near future, and making sure the water is clean and healthy in the 1 he's in now before doing this. If only I'd researched this before.

[burton07]

Originally Posted by Shrike

Heres a nice article that illustrates this:
Goldfish size and life expectancy

Shops selling Goldfish should be made to hang this article on their wall.

[EEfan24]

Well, I have ordered a new tank and it's approximately 16 gallons, 4 times the size of the 1 he is in now

Does anybody think I am entitled to ask for my money back for the tank they sold me? It's just FAR too small for a goldfish, let alone another 1 that they were going to sell me. I'm not overly bothered as long as the fish is happy but would be nice.

[pugamo]

I used to have two goldfish in a tank, about 7 years ago and I was worried that they were depressed. I gave them to my gran as she has a big pond with fancy fish and all in it and they cheered up, grew bigger and always swam together in a little pair glad to hear you are giving your fish a happy life OP!

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by EEfan24

Well, I have ordered a new tank and it's approximately 16 gallons, 4 times the size of the 1 he is in now

Does anybody think I am entitled to ask for my money back for the tank they sold me? It's just FAR too small for a goldfish, let alone another 1 that they were going to sell me. I'm not overly bothered as long as the fish is happy but would be nice.

The link I gave above suggests the tank you were sold is not fit for purpose (ie not conducive to the health and well being of a goldfish) and so you would be due a refund under the sale of goods act.
I'd go for it - if lots of customers return tanks then maybe they'll start thinking about the fish's needs and give proper advice.