[Drunken Scouser]

Originally Posted by gulliverfoyle

exactly

the unfunded social security and pensions runs to 10s of Trillions

the system is bust - it wont be paid

That's bollocks I'm afraid. All the Americans need to do is raise the payroll tax cap and Social Security is solvent for another 50 years or so.

The reason the Republicans won't agree to it is because people would then realise they've been hyping up a phony crisis in order to push through their privatisation agenda and rip away the safety net without which elderly Americans would be begging in the streets again, just like they were before FDR came along.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by SULLA

Conservatives do not want to take off the poor to give to the rich

Non-partisan (Tax Policy Center) analysis of Romney's tax plans would suggest that they'd result in tax cuts for the top 5%, while raising them on everybody else; indeed, Ryan's plans would see Romney pay no taxes at all

America has became a great place indeed ... for its gilded!

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by Drunken Scouser

That's bollocks I'm afraid. All the Americans need to do is raise the payroll tax cap and Social Security is solvent for another 50 years or so.

The reason the Republicans won't agree to it is because people would then realise they've been hyping up a phony crisis in order to push through their privatisation agenda and rip away the safety net without which elderly Americans would be begging in the streets again, just like they were before FDR came along.

The GOP could well position itself for a crushing were it to start gutting vestiges of the 'New Deal' (Social Security) and 'Great Society' (Medicare) that remain sacrosanct for most Americans

Difficult to think now but back in 2008, nationally, the one income demographic that stood to pay modestly higher rates of taxation (they were not excessive as of Bill Clinton leaving office) under the president's proposals actually broke in his favour 53-46, with the middle class being more split and lower income groups skewing Democrat

Obama has been accused of overreaching his mandate (and his record has been described as being that of a 'moderate Republican') but its plausible that the GOP may overreach theirs

Bruce Bartlett - a former domestic policy advisor to President Reagan - makes the case that President Obama [D] is a moderate conservative in a way that President Nixon [R] was a moderate liberal

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

Not to sure why the poor & lazy people of the United States should have their lives paid for by smart and successful people such as Mr Romney and others.

If you do not want to be poor and you want to have a good life then work for it!

It makes me sick to my stomach that people in this world have a view that poor people are entitled to the fruits of another person's success.

#2012
#voteforromney
#boosteconomy
#cuttaxes
#stopsupportingthepoorandlazy
#time4change
#cutbenefits

If you want a Third World country **** off and find yourself one because its the welfare state [whether 1) social democratic, 2) Christian Democratic/conservative or 3) liberal] which distinguishes the 'First World' from the rest

Lets get one thing straight contributions-based benefits are not 'entitlements'

[ThePhotographer]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawk

If you want a Third World country **** off and find yourself one because its the welfare state (whether social democratic, Christian Democratic/conservative or liberal) which distinguishes the 'First World' from the rest

Why would I want the UK to be a 'Third World country'?

I want jobs for all. I also want cuts to taxation and spending. The welfare state keeps aspirations and hope down in the gutter. We need more people to be successful and not lazy in life.

We want to get out of the mindset that raising taxes is a good thing. We've had a VAT rise and that doesn't help anyone. The long-term effects of high taxation in this country will not help the country to grow. We need to cut taxes across the board and reduce spending - allow people to choose where to spend their earned money and not allow government to decide where to spend and waste it.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

Why would I want the UK to be a 'Third World country'?

I want jobs for all. I also want cuts to taxation and spending. The welfare state keeps aspirations and hope down in the gutter. We need more people to be successful and not lazy in life.

We want to get out of the mindset that raising taxes is a good thing. We've had a VAT rise and that doesn't help anyone. The long-term effects of high taxation in this country will not help the country to grow. We need to cut taxes across the board and reduce spending - allow people to choose where to spend their earned money and not allow government to decide where to spend and waste it.

Nonsense. Welfare benefits are a necessity not a lifestyle choice

[ThePhotographer]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawk

Nonsense. Welfare benefits are a necessity not a lifestyle choice

They are a lifestyle choice.

For example, there are people who are happy to reduce their hours per week to be able to claim WTC.

People are happy to have the safety net of child benefits to be reckless with their sex lives and breed.

People are happy to claim JSA and doing as little as possible to get a real job.

Cut welfare and celebrate

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by ThePhotographer

They are a lifestyle choice.

For example, there are people who are happy to reduce their hours per week to be able to claim WTC.

Perhaps to spend more quality time with their families. Furthermore, if some people didn't need to work as much perhaps there'd be more of it - work - to go around for those who need it

People are happy to have the safety net of child benefits to be reckless with their sex lives and breed.

Child benefits are universal benefits

People are happy to claim JSA and doing as little as possible to get a real job.

Perhaps for those who have never worked and don't know any different but for those who have, the transition from work to welfare , in the UK, is a most horrifying fate indeed

Cut welfare and celebrate

Celebrate by forcing more human beings into poverty than they are at present

[Drunken Scouser]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawk

Nonsense. Welfare benefits are a necessity not a lifestyle choice

The poster you're engaging with is a prolific WUM. Don't feed it.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by Drunken Scouser

The poster you're engaging with is a prolific WUM. Don't feed it.

Well any one who blames "high" taxes, the unions and the welfare state for our woes ain't living in the UK! Because we don't have high taxes, we don't have strong unions and the welfare state is, more or less, bare bones

Aye, all aboard the neoliberal merry-go-round and as good as the hell to anybody who falls off

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawk

Well any one who blames "high" taxes, the unions and the welfare state for our woes ain't living in the UK! Because we don't have high taxes, we don't have strong unions and the welfare state is, more or less, bare bones*

Aye, all aboard the neoliberal merry-go-round and as good as the hell to anybody who falls off

* Lose your job in the UK you get some £71.00pw for six months than nowt, nix, natta unless you're poor (i.e. worth less than 16k or have a partner earning in excess of 7k) and you wouldn't get maximum support until you're dirt poor (i.e. worth less than 6k). I can see method in it though. You need savings to supplement benefits to have an even remotely basic standard of living meaning they get spent sharp

And if that's a strong welfare safety net then I'm Margaret Thatcher!

[LabhaoiseNiMhao]

Originally Posted by Drunken Scouser

That's bollocks I'm afraid. All the Americans need to do is raise the payroll tax cap and Social Security is solvent for another 50 years or so.

The reason the Republicans won't agree to it is because people would then realise they've been hyping up a phony crisis in order to push through their privatisation agenda and rip away the safety net without which elderly Americans would be begging in the streets again, just like they were before FDR came along.

Bingo..the latest figures actually show improvement in the US.

Same here in Ireland we are recovering and gaining market confidence. Slowly.

But in America Ryan's 'budget' is simply a cover for implementing right wing ideology. And the funding they are getting quite frankly makes a mockery of democracy. And of cource the republicans look set to try every trick in the book to win. Curtailing the last three days of early voting for 'certain voters'. It has developed into a very nasty anti-democratic party.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by LabhaoiseNiMhao

Bingo..the latest figures actually show improvement in the US.

Same here in Ireland we are recovering and gaining market confidence. Slowly.

But in America Ryan's 'budget' is simply a cover for implementing right wing ideology. And the funding they are getting quite frankly makes a mockery of democracy. And of cource the republicans look set to try every trick in the book to win. Curtailing the last three days of early voting for 'certain voters'. It has developed into a very nasty anti-democratic party.

Well the stock market responded positively to the latest GDP and jobs data in the US but it would seem, thus far, private sector job creation has not offset public sector job losses. And congressional Republicans have sought to ensure that for political gain

[Anachrony]

He isn't just another fiscal conservative, he's one of the ideological leaders of the far right wing of the Republican Party.

I can't see how this doesn't lose them the election, if Romney had a chance in the first place. Traditionally, it is the elderly who swing conservative, but they have disproportionate impact since the elderly have very high voter turnout. But attacking social security and medicare head on wipes out their historical advantage with the retired or soon to be retired.

Still, I suppose if the economy takes another hard dip right before the election, voters will be in the mood to get the incumbent out no matter what the alternative.

[Majlis]

Originally Posted by Drunken Scouser

Keep thinking that if it helps you sleep at night. I however will keep living in the real world, in which the tide is beginning to turn and the momentum is now clearly behind higher taxes for the rich once more. I point you to the new 75% rate in France, and the YouGov poll showing near 2-to-1 support for a similar tax here.

The 75% rate is simply dog-whistle politics, it remains to be seen how long it lasts, how many actually pay it and if it brings in any money. And as for a your opinion poll on whether somebody else should pay more tax - well I'm surprised the results were as low as 2 to 1.

No, the day that a Party stands on a platform (and gets elected) with a policy of raising taxes for everyone to pay for increased Public Spending is the day that I will believe that the Left are making a comeback.

[Majlis]

Originally Posted by Drunken Scouser

That's bollocks I'm afraid. All the Americans need to do is raise the payroll tax cap and Social Security is solvent for another 50 years or so.

The reason the Republicans won't agree to it..

The Democrats controlled all 3 pillars of Government in Obamas first 2 years - they didn't need the Republicans to agree to anything.

They still didnt do anything about the debt crisis though.

[MartinP]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawk

And if that's a strong welfare safety net then I'm Margaret Thatcher!

Better motivation to go and get a job. You can whine about the state of the safety net all you like but in reality you need to get back to work.

[GreatGodPan]

Originally Posted by MartinP

Better motivation to go and get a job. You can whine about the state of the safety net all you like but in reality you need to get back to work.

Indeed.

Dave needs a well paid, cushy office job where he can surreptitiously play on internet chat sites for large chunks of the working day, while lecturing the unemployed in a condescending manner on getting a job.

Any ideas where he can get one.......?

[MartinP]

Originally Posted by GreatGodPan

Indeed.

Dave needs a well paid, cushy office job where he can surreptitiously play on internet chat sites for large chunks of the working day, while lecturing the unemployed in a condescending manner on getting a job.

Any ideas where he can get one.......?

Nah, what he really needs is cushy tax-payer-funded early retirement so he can pontificate over a pretend desire for a socialist state while sipping Veuve with wealthy family members who own the local stables and riding club.

[GreatGodPan]

Originally Posted by MartinP

Nah, what he really needs is cushy tax-payer-funded early retirement so he can pontificate over a pretend desire for a socialist state while sipping Veuve with wealthy family members who own the local stables and riding club.

If you only knew!

[TimCypher]

Originally Posted by GreatGodPan

If you only knew!

Is this a tantalising hint that you're connected to royalty, GGP?

Regards,

Cypher

[oncemore]

Originally Posted by Majlis

The Democrats controlled all 3 pillars of Government in Obamas first 2 years - they didn't need the Republicans to agree to anything.

They still didnt do anything about the debt crisis though.

You must be new. The Democrats asked and got crapped on.

[oncemore]

The best part of a Romney/Ryan Presidency is that it will never happen in a million years.

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by MartinP

Better motivation to go and get a job. You can whine about the state of the safety net all you like

Well that's stating the bleeding obvious

but in reality you need to get back to work.

Easier said than achieved . It ain't by choice I'm living on less than 1/3 - and that's a guestimate - of what I'd have been bringing home in my former employ . That's my reality

I'm one of those you don't read about in the tabloids. I don't claim for help with health costs (a small private insurance offsets the cost of dental and optimal treatment). Nor has my elderly mother, who - in my darkest days - is to all intents and purposes my primary carer claimed Second Adult Rebate in respect of her Council Tax

[Dave Hawk]

Originally Posted by GreatGodPan

Indeed.

Dave needs a well paid, cushy office job where he can surreptitiously play on internet chat sites for large chunks of the working day,

Its what I had

while lecturing the unemployed in a condescending manner on getting a job

Any ideas where he can get one.......?

My lecturing the unemployed in a condescending manner on getting a job is news to me . Indeed, I can empathise with the unemployed as I know only too well how difficult it is