[noise747]

Originally Posted by Popadopalous

Not sure if this has been mentioned but StarDock as released a free tweak that brings back a start button and sort of tries to turn the metro interface in to a start menu as we are all familiar with.

Google it as I don't recall the name and haven't tried it personally myself.

Hating Windows 8 though. Metro just doesn't appeal to me, which is sad because this is the first time ever I've actually been disappointed in a release from Microsoft. I hope they see sense and at least add an option for those who want the traditional start menu.

If I went for Windows 8 I would have it booting into the desktop, and get a a start menu tweak, so there would be little point in going for windows 8. the charm menu get on my nerves, go to that side of the screen and out it pops. Reminds me of Windows 95 task bar which used to be hidden.

It is a shame that the Mac Os is not available on a normal PC.

[Garry_McAuley]

If 8's available in October, then how long will the Preview and RTM versions last?

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by Garry_McAuley

If 8's available in October, then how long will the Preview and RTM versions last?

RTM is what they will be selling come October 26th.

The Previews last until January.

[Garry_McAuley]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

RTM is what they will be selling come October 26th.

The Previews last until January.

Aye, but they say you can download the RTM from 14th/16th of this month, if that's the case, how long will the actual downloadble RTM last?

[cnbcwatcher]

Originally Posted by noise747

It is a shame that the Mac Os is not available on a normal PC.

You could always create a Hackintosh, but Steve Jobs in the iCloud won't like it You might get a visit from the men in black turtlenecks. If you do that just be careful!

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by Garry_McAuley

Aye, but they say you can download the RTM from 14th/16th of this month, if that's the case, how long will the actual downloadble RTM last?

That's only for people with TechNet and MSDN subscriptions.

[whoever,hey]

Originally Posted by cnbcwatcher

You could always create a Hackintosh, but Steve Jobs in the iCloud won't like it You might get a visit from the men in black turtlenecks. If you do that just be careful!

Who gives a toss about him?

[Garry_McAuley]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

That's only for people with TechNet and MSDN subscriptions.

..Which I have

[JeffG1]

Originally Posted by TheBigM

That's only for people with TechNet and MSDN subscriptions.

Originally Posted by Garry_McAuley

..Which I have

Perhaps you can explain something for me then...

Through having bought Visual Studio 2010, I have a free MSDN Essentials subscription.

According to the MSDN web site, I can download a Windows 8 x64 Pro ISO and get a product key for it. Is there a catch? Is it really a freebie for me?

Also, is there any advantage in doing so? I am currently running Windows 7 x64 Home Premiun SP1 with which I am perfectly happy. I don't want to upgrade to something 'inferior'.

[Stig]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

According to the MSDN web site, I can download a Windows 8 x64 Pro ISO and get a product key for it. Is there a catch? Is it really a freebie for me?

It's an NFR 'not for resale' licence, designed to be used for development and testing purposes.

If you are using Visual Studio 2010, then you can test applications you write!

I'll confess to using stuff from my TechNet subscription for personal use. I'm certainly not selling keys on eBay like some jokers.

[JeffG1]

Ah right, thanks. I'll not bother then. If I had a bank of PCs to install random operating systems on, then maybe

Surely software (Visual C++ with MFC) that runs perfectly well on Windows 7, V*sta and Windows XP isn't suddenly going to be broken by Windows 8?

(Presumably x86 builds are still going to work? I built a 64-bit version just because I could - after upgrading from VC++ V6 - but there is no discernible benefit.)

[Stig]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

Surely software (Visual C++ with MFC) that runs perfectly well on Windows 7, V*sta and Windows XP isn't suddenly going to be broken by Windows 8?

That's a very dangerous assumption to make! That's why you need to test applications on the final RTM code and make sure.

[JeffG1]

Originally Posted by Stig

That's a very dangerous assumption to make! That's why you need to test applications on the final RTM code and make sure.

Well, since my software is provided free to the gliding community as a hobby, I am sure someone will tell me if they upgrade and it's broken. Until then, I am not particularly bothered

[IvanIV]

You could easily test it in a virtual machine. Oracle Virtualbox is for free. Get Windows 8 release preview and install it in VM. The problem I can see is that W8 won't have your version of MFC installed. But if you redistribute that, you'll most likely be fine. BTW the internal version of W8 is 6.2, so I am waiting for somebody to say it's just Vista with a facelift

[Stig]

Originally Posted by IvanIV

I am waiting for somebody to say it's just Vista with a facelift

It's just Vista with a facelift

[JeffG1]

Hmm. This article is interesting.

Hearing that Windows 8 would use HTML5 and JavaScript for its new immersive applications was, therefore, more than a little disturbing to Windows developers. Such a switch means discarding two decades of knowledge and expertise of Windows development-and countless hours spent learning Microsoft's latest-and-greatest technology-and perhaps just as importantly, it means discarding rich, capable frameworks and the powerful, enormously popular Visual Studio development environment, in favor of a far more primitive, rudimentary system with substantially inferior tools.

[Stig]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

Hmm. This article is interesting.

Maybe that quote is taken out of context, but it completely misses the point of what the Windows 8 interface (formerly Metro) is all about.

Traditional (desktop) applications are still there and will continue to be there. The HTML5 (Metro) apps are an alternative, designed for touch interfaces. It's like saying that a calendar desktop gadget replaces a full blown calendar application. No, it just compliments it.

[TheBigM]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

Hmm. This article is interesting.

No, it's not. The article is based on a phrase or two from the All Things D conference over 13 months ago where Steven Sinofsky mentioned the new apps could be created using HTML and Javascript.
Since then, we have had three public previews, the gold code, multiple developer conferences including the comprehensive BUILD in September 2011.

I'm not sure why you would pluck out an old article like that. At the time of writing, people feared the phrase meant using HTML and Javascript to make basically web apps that are then packaged into local apps. This was not at all the case. The new WinRT platform has three distinct language styles to use including C++ and .Net technologies as well as the HTML/JS combo and so all such worries were dispelled at BUILD.

[Helbore]

Originally Posted by JeffG1

Hmm. This article is interesting.

That article is over a year old and - from what I bothered to read of it - seems to be somewhat out of date. Whilst you can write apps for WinRT in HTML5 and JavaScript, you can also write them in C++, C# and VB. Visual Studio and the good, old programming platforms that Windows developers are familiar with are all available for creating metro-style apps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime

[IvanIV]

I was working with Visual Studio 2012 today and it is all still there, both C++ and C#. They just add new choices. As for MFC, there will be new version with VS2012 and W8, so you will have to make sure your version is installed.

[JeffG1]

Originally Posted by Helbore

That article is over a year old and - from what I bothered to read of it - seems to be somewhat out of date

Sorry, I hadn't noticed. I haven't really been taking much notice of Windows 8, to be honest.

Originally Posted by IvanIV

As for MFC, there will be new version with VS2012 and W8, so you will have to make sure your version is installed.

Thanks for the tip. When I moved from VC++ V6 to VS2010 and issued an update, it broke for quite a few of my users - everyone has mfc42.dll but some (most?) did not have mfc100.dll - giving them a link to download and install vcredist_x86.exe fixed the problem.

I have never included the mfc runtime in my install package up till now - maybe it's time to start

[IvanIV]

You will very likely need the vcredist_x86.exe with mfc100.dll for W8. Having a download link is enough I'd say, but you could include it in some redist directory for convenience. If you are not doing anything wild in your programme that should do. I'd scan the code for any incorrect OS version checks (W8 is 6.2) if you have OS dependent code, but if it works already with XP to W7, it should be OK, too.

[JeffG1]

Thanks. I did have some special code to support Windows 98, but I removed that in the update (together with any version checks), and no-one has complained.

Just because I could (with VS2010), I built a 64-bit version, which was quite an eye-opener. There were quite a few warnings to fix (mainly INT_PTR versus int) and one error to do with WM_TIMER. Still, there is no real advantage in 64-bit software unless you are dealing with humungous amounts of data (or writing drivers!).

[niceguy1966]

Like the vast majority of users, I will never upgrade the os of my PC. I will use xp until the day the PC dies.

The big market is getting Win 8 onto new PCs. They need to avoid repeating the Vista situation where people were buying new PCs but insisting the old 'XP' OS is installed (mainly business customers, but this is a huge market).

Many big businesses will be very slow to upgrade. My employer has only just started to move from XP to 7.

[Stig]

Originally Posted by niceguy1966

They need to avoid repeating the Vista situation where people were buying new PCs but insisting the old 'XP' OS is installed (mainly business customers, but this is a huge market).

Many big businesses will be very slow to upgrade. My employer has only just started to move from XP to 7.

Businesses have to think very carefully about compatability with existing hardware and applications. XP to Vista was a big change, and there were lots of good reasons for many businesses not to upgrade.

For consumers, the problem of a XP to Vista upgrade was the big jump in hardware requirements. Vista (or Windows 7) would not run as quickly on low spec hardware. That's why a lot of people wanted to go back.

With Windows 8, the reasons are different. It will run faster on the same hardware as Windows 7, and the application compatability is almost identical. The biggest challenge will be people saying "It looks different; I don't like it!"