[Lawro2]

Originally Posted by zieler

Ever heard of Arsenal

Man Utd have really struggled against Arsenal in the past 6 seasons.

[batdude_uk1]

Originally Posted by zieler

Ever heard of Arsenal

And even if I don't like to say so, Liverpool pushed us all the way for a single year.

[highlight]

Maybe the answer for the other teams in the La Liga to get a fair slice of the pie would be for them to leave and let Barcelona and Madrid play with themselves.

All the remaining clubs threaten to form their own league or merge with one of the smaller countries like Portugal - I am sure it would help Benfica and other teams revenues as well. . Joke.

But seriously they should start standing up themselves against these teams.

Shame our league didn't have some sort of fair play rules (maybe not the ones suggested now) at the start of the premiership 20 odd years ago so teams wouldn't need sugar daddies but still able to compete.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by Lawro2

Man Utd have really struggled against Arsenal in the past 6 seasons.

Because it is not like football has changed at all in the last 6 years. Prices shoot up, players get offered more money to join City rather than stay at Arsenal. The fact that Arsenal are still in contention is impressive.

[Lawro2]

Originally Posted by zieler

Because it is not like football has changed at all in the last 6 years. Prices shoot up, players get offered more money to join City rather than stay at Arsenal. The fact that Arsenal are still in contention is impressive.

Arsenal are still in contention?

They finished 19 points below Man Utd last season and sold their best player to them.

[zieler]

Originally Posted by Lawro2

Arsenal are still in contention?

They finished 19 points below Man Utd last season and sold their best player to them.

I would argue that was partly a poor season from them (4 losses in the first 7 games) and an exceptional season from both United and City, rather than a sign of them being rubbish. Remember that they still finished third. As for Van Persie leaving, that again can be attributed to the so-called sugar-daddies. While Arsenal are still fighting at the top, they are unable to win trophies so Robin leaves to get trophies elsewhere. Can you honestly say if Chelsea and City hadn't altered the league, that Van Persie would have left to join United?

[JMTD]

Can somebody explain to me why people are comparing a team being brought by new owners to two teams in a twenty team league getting money via a television deal?

[the chimp]

Originally Posted by drop dead fred

I can't believe I'm going to agree with something Mourinho said but here goes....

Any team from any league in the world that entered La Liga would be fighting for 3rd place. Bayern, Man Utd, Man City, Juventus, PSG etc. etc. even with their own current broadcasting and 'financial doping' (as Pee and others rightly call it) would be attempting to close that 20-30 point gap but would probably not make a big dent in it.

.

That is absolute bull,if Man U could negotiate their own tv rights, possibly even Liverpool too, they would blow away what both Barca and Real get.

[the chimp]

Originally Posted by highlight

Maybe the answer for the other teams in the La Liga to get a fair slice of the pie would be for them to leave and let Barcelona and Madrid play with themselves.

All the remaining clubs threaten to form their own league or merge with one of the smaller countries like Portugal - I am sure it would help Benfica and other teams revenues as well. . Joke.

But seriously they should start standing up themselves against these teams.

Shame our league didn't have some sort of fair play rules (maybe not the ones suggested now) at the start of the premiership 20 odd years ago so teams wouldn't need sugar daddies but still able to compete.

What ??? The division of money in our League is much fairer than Spain.

[highlight]

Originally Posted by the chimp

What ??? The division of money in our League is much fairer than Spain.

TV rights are but in our league if you have a huge amount of money from a sugar daddy it gives you a fighting chance of gaining a league title - which is what I was more or less trying to say but badly. This has influenced competition in this country. I remember when millions was poured in to Blackburn in the early days and helped them partly to win the Premiership.

I will give United their due they were one of the first to realise that teams are going to need a lot of money (and the club had to become a business) to compete and developed a Plc (before the Glazier days) company expanding the fan base across the world with the United brand. Other Team (except for probably Arsenal) failed to do this and now hope for sugar a daddy to get a success.

However this is about the La Liga not our league.....

[Mandark]

All European leagues need to introduce the NFL style salary cap and draft system. It stops one team becoming all dominant.

[Paul Chuckle]

Take out the top 2 in England and replace them with the top 2 in Spain and you'd still have a 30+ points gap between second and third.

[highlight]

Originally Posted by Mandark

All European leagues need to introduce the NFL style salary cap and draft system. It stops one team becoming all dominant.

I have never heard of that. Would something like that work over here? It would need to implemented across Europe not just here.

[Paul Chuckle]

Originally Posted by the chimp

That is absolute bull,if Man U could negotiate their own tv rights, possibly even Liverpool too, they would blow away what both Barca and Real get.

On the flip side, imagine the quality of football in the EPL if the other 18 teams had to rely on their youth systems!

Some of the bottom half teams are bad enough while spending millions on players. Take all that away, and your looking a very mediocre league indeed.

The fact the teams in La Liga remain competitive at home and abroad, while playing some exquisite free flowing football, in that exact scenario above is something that should be applauded.

[walterwhite]

Originally Posted by Mandark

All European leagues need to introduce the NFL style salary cap and draft system. It stops one team becoming all dominant.

Wouldn't work. Who would the clubs draft the players from? Plus it hardly works in the NFL.

[Sabre92]

Originally Posted by zieler

I would argue that was partly a poor season from them (4 losses in the first 7 games) and an exceptional season from both United and City, rather than a sign of them being rubbish. Remember that they still finished third. As for Van Persie leaving, that again can be attributed to the so-called sugar-daddies. While Arsenal are still fighting at the top, they are unable to win trophies so Robin leaves to get trophies elsewhere. Can you honestly say if Chelsea and City hadn't altered the league, that Van Persie would have left to join United?

This. If the sugar daddies hadn't arrived you could argue that Arsenal would never have lost Cole to Chelsea, Toure and Adebayor may have stuck around (although in the latter's case that probably wouldn't have been a good thing) and would never have gone to City, ditto with Clichy and Nasri. We'd have been much more likely to have won a few trophies in that time as well, which would probably have stopped the likes of van Persie's and Song's recent departures. Cesc may even have been persuaded to stick around another couple of years if we'd consistently been winning things (although he always would've gone back to Barca at some stage). Then not to mention possible transfer targets that we've missed out on because of Chelsea and City inflating the transfer market and the fact we can't compete with them in bidding wars (Mata being the first example that comes into my head).

Obviously there's no way of knowing what would've happened had Abramovich and Mansour never turned up but I think you'd find that Arsenal would be in a much stronger position than they are now.

[drop dead fred]

Originally Posted by drop dead fred

I can't believe I'm going to agree with something Mourinho said but here goes....

Any team from any league in the world that entered La Liga would be fighting for 3rd place. Bayern, Man Utd, Man City, Juventus, PSG etc. etc. even with their own current broadcasting and 'financial doping' (as Pee and others rightly call it) would be attempting to close that 20-30 point gap but would probably not make a big dent in it.

Originally Posted by the chimp

That is absolute bull,if Man U could negotiate their own tv rights, possibly even Liverpool too, they would blow away what both Barca and Real get.

Chimp, I didn't say, or mean, that clubs such as Man Utd wouldn't compete financially, I said they wouldn't compete for the title. I stand by that. If any other top club entered La Liga they themselves would be 20+ odd points behind Madrid and Barca.

Bilboa taught Utd a footballing lesson last year over two legs, proving it wasn't a one off fluke, and they finished outside the top 4 in Spain, and their revenue is largely pointless given they only use Basque players. Whereas Utd pretty much dominate every game in our league - which is the best to watch but isn't close in technique to La Liga. Also, Valencia look better organised without Emery and so would, probably like Bilboa, dominate other European teams in terms of possession and chances, it's just if they can finish off those chances. I think they will do well in the Champions League this year and because of this they would probably finish higher than any club that joined their league.

[the chimp]

Originally Posted by drop dead fred

Chimp, I didn't say, or mean, that clubs such as Man Utd wouldn't compete financially, I said they wouldn't compete for the title. I stand by that. If any other top club entered La Liga they themselves would be 20+ odd points behind Madrid and Barca.

Bilboa taught Utd a footballing lesson last year over two legs, proving it wasn't a one off fluke, and they finished outside the top 4 in Spain, and their revenue is largely pointless given they only use Basque players. Whereas Utd pretty much dominate every game in our league - which is the best to watch but isn't close in technique to La Liga. Also, Valencia look better organised without Emery and so would, probably like Bilboa, dominate other European teams in terms of possession and chances, it's just if they can finish off those chances. I think they will do well in the Champions League this year and because of this they would probably finish higher than any club that joined their league.

Of course they would compete, put them in the same position and they would out bid them and buy the best players, I don't read anything into the Bilbao result either, Man U like almost all English clubs don't give a fig about the EL.

And if they are both so far ahead of anybody else then why we're they both knocked out in the semis last year ?

Chelsea weren't even in the top 4 for the love of god.

[the chimp]

Originally Posted by highlight

However this is about the La Liga not our league.....

Your point being ?

[the chimp]

Originally Posted by Paul Chuckle

On the flip side, imagine the quality of football in the EPL if the other 18 teams had to rely on their youth systems!

Some of the bottom half teams are bad enough while spending millions on players. Take all that away, and your looking a very mediocre league indeed.

The fact the teams in La Liga remain competitive at home and abroad, while playing some exquisite free flowing football, in that exact scenario above is something that should be applauded.

I'm afraid that's pure speculation, you have no idea how our youth would progress if we had to play them.

[SlowRap]

Originally Posted by Mandark

All European leagues need to introduce the NFL style salary cap and draft system. It stops one team becoming all dominant.

The same NFL that was close to not even starting the new season because of salary disputes?

Also salary caps don't work, there's always a way around them with bonuses and other incentives.

[drop dead fred]

Originally Posted by the chimp

Of course they would compete, put them in the same position and they would out bid them and buy the best players, I don't read anything into the Bilbao result either, Man U like almost all English clubs don't give a fig about the EL.

And if they are both so far ahead of anybody else then why we're they both knocked out in the semis last year ?

Chelsea weren't even in the top 4 for the love of god.

Firstly, I think a lot of clubs can outbid Barca now. But the best players that could close the gap on those two clubs arguably already play for them, would they leave to go to Utd, Man Utd, Chelsea, Juventus, PSG? Yaya Toure went to City but that was because he was about to be replaced and was offered a ridiculous amount of money, and he is quite vocal about wanting to go back to Barca. Oodles of cash doesn't guarentee quality, and the other leagues' teams would find the Spanish style hard to adapt to and overcome on a 38 game basis - one/two/three game basis fair enough, not 38.

Chelsea knocked Barca out (and won the Champions League) with a bit of luck, I think most people accept that. They were arguably the worst team in the entire knockout stage but with a solid defence and the profligacy of every team they faced they managed to win what is a cup competition. They couldn't perform consistently 38 games in a row in our league where they dominate possession most of the time so wouldn't have done it in La Liga where they wouldn't dominate every game, either. Imagine if that Chelsea team played 38 games under the cosh every week like they were against the might of a ten man Benfica side (albeit Portuguese but style wise the same as the Spanish sides) at the Bridge, how many would they have won? Certainly not enough to be under 20 points behind Madrid and Barca.

As for why Madrid got knocled out: because they played Bayern. In my orignial contribution to this thread I mentioned that I think Bayern and Arsenal would do well in La Liga as their styles are suited to it. Our teams don't know how to play possession based games effectively enough to succeed over there on a whole 38 game season basis, that is my view.

[highlight]

Originally Posted by the chimp

Your point being ?

Wasn't making a point after I wrote about our league the op was discussing teams in the La Liga. Was just making a harmless comment not aimed at you or anyone else.

[JMTD]

Originally Posted by drop dead fred

Chimp, I didn't say, or mean, that clubs such as Man Utd wouldn't compete financially, I said they wouldn't compete for the title. I stand by that. If any other top club entered La Liga they themselves would be 20+ odd points behind Madrid and Barca.

Bilboa taught Utd a footballing lesson last year over two legs, proving it wasn't a one off fluke, and they finished outside the top 4 in Spain, and their revenue is largely pointless given they only use Basque players. Whereas Utd pretty much dominate every game in our league - which is the best to watch but isn't close in technique to La Liga. Also, Valencia look better organised without Emery and so would, probably like Bilboa, dominate other European teams in terms of possession and chances, it's just if they can finish off those chances. I think they will do well in the Champions League this year and because of this they would probably finish higher than any club that joined their league.

Chelsea defeated Barcelona over two legs, so your ridiculous logic is failed.

I'm tired of people acting like mystic meg thinking they know what would happen. Nobody knows. United, City or Chelsea could go to La Liga and storm the league. Or Barcelona and Madrid could come to the PL and storm the league. Nobody knows and nobody likely ever will know, because it's not going to happen, so stop being silly and even saying ridiculous stuff such as "United would finished 20 plus points behind", when Manchester United are amongst the greatest teams in world football.

This belief that there's some mass gulf between the top sides is beyond pathetic.

[Cantona07]

Originally Posted by JMTD

Chelsea defeated Barcelona over two legs, so your ridiculous logic is failed.

I'm tired of people acting like mystic meg thinking they know what would happen. Nobody knows. United, City or Chelsea could go to La Liga and storm the league. Or Barcelona and Madrid could come to the PL and storm the league. Nobody knows and nobody likely ever will know, because it's not going to happen, so stop being silly and even saying ridiculous stuff such as "United would finished 20 plus points behind", when Manchester United are amongst the greatest teams in world football.

This belief that there's some mass gulf between the top sides is beyond pathetic.

I would act as Mystic Meg in so far as id agree with you but i would suggest that the top teams from round Europe would be able to compete in other domestic leagues after a short period of adjustment.

The likes of Man Utd, Chelsea and City would soon adjust their game and one or two players to suit the Spanish game just as the likes of Real and Barca would do the same if they were suddenly faced with the PL season. Its the reason the best clubs are in fact the best clubs in the first place i guess!!