[Thames/LWT]

Originally Posted by TC

Will it fit in between all the freezer cabinets?

The ones containing chips presumably.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Probably because, (as I was referring to above) almost all TV's in Ireland will be T1 only - so would need HD boxes adding if Ireland used T2.

Any existing DTT equipped TVs prior to Saorview's launch in May 2011, will I suppose have been T1 UK models, but how many would there have been, bearing in mind that UK DTT hardly, if at all penetrated Eire. Also, without MPEG 4 capability they'll be useless for Saorview

[mpk81]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Any existing DTT equipped TVs prior to Saorview's launch in May 2011, will I suppose have been T1 UK models, but how many would there have been, bearing in mind that UK DTT hardly, if at all penetrated Eire. Also, without MPEG 4 capability they'll be useless for Saorview

A relative in Ireland got a TV at Christmas 2010. It works fine with Saorview channels, but does not have MHEG5. As I said the Saorview specs were published in 2008.
TVs are not just built for the UK market, they are built for the European market, several other European countries use DVB-T MPEG4.

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by mpk81

A relative in Ireland got a TV at Christmas 2010. It works fine with Saorview channels, but does not have MHEG5. As I said the Saorview specs were published in 2008.
TVs are not just built for the UK market, they are built for the European market, several other European countries use DVB-T MPEG4.

Yes, but not the UK

A bit pointless really since they should have moved over to DVB-T2 like the UK and African countries

[the cush]

Originally Posted by Mark C

DTT in Ireland started testing in October 2010, and launched properly in May 2011.

We started using DVB-T2 in Dec 2009

Therefore the Irish decision to launch in T1 makes no sense ?

Originally Posted by mpk81

RTE has been testing DTT on and off for over 10 years.

Irish DTT receiver specification (DVB-T MPEG 4) was decided in Feb 2008.

Transmitter DTT upgrade work started in the summer of 2008 with pre-launch engineering test transmissions starting the first week of Aug 2008.

Legislation required DTT to be available to at least 90% of the population by the end of Oct 2010, the actual figure was 94%+ at that time.

By the time DVB-T2 launched in the UK all the Irish main transmitters were transmitting the 4 PSB channels in DVB-T/MPEG-4 as part of the engineering test transmissions, some for almost 18 months.

[the cush]

Originally Posted by Mark C

It'll be using very robust parameters, which mean the payload will be only 12 Mb/s, not enough to support RTE 2 in HD, alongside SD RTE 1 and TG4.

NImux useful bitrate 9.8 Mbit/s according to DMOL - http://www.dmol.co.uk/technical/The_...tform_Overview

[the cush]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

Yes, I have Links to what I am saying for evidence, but I am keeping them to myself

The EU did set a date for ASO as 31 December 2012 a while back as it's preferred date

A 2009 non-binding EU Commission Recommendation recommended that all analogue broadcasting should cease in the EU by 1st Jan 2012.

I count 12 of the 27 EU states incl. the UK and Ireland who failed to comply with that date, 3 have since switched off analogue, 4 more later this year, 3 in 2013 and Hungary and Romania have set 2015 as the date.

[the cush]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Any existing DTT equipped TVs prior to Saorview's launch in May 2011, will I suppose have been T1 UK models, but how many would there have been, bearing in mind that UK DTT hardly, if at all penetrated Eire. Also, without MPEG 4 capability they'll be useless for Saorview

Lots of UK DTT overspill into RoI, from Wales into SE Ireland and from NI into the NW, midlands and east of the country.

Since the engineering test transmissions started in Aug 2008 anyone interested in receiving them and the future Saorview service has ensured the TV they purchased (prior to the availability of Saorview approved products) had an onboard MPEG-4 decoder be it a Freeview T1 or TNT-HD certified product. Lots of discussion on the Irish terrestrial boards over the last number of years about which TVs did and didn't have an MPEG-4 decoder.

Of course many of the UK stores here such as Currys, PC World and Argos have been off loading non-compatible MPEG-2 TVs up to recent times to unsuspecting customers who will require a STB post ASO in Oct.

My early 2008 Sony V4500 has worked without problem since the Saorview engineering test transmissions started from my local transmitter in Mar 2009.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by the cush

Lots of UK DTT overspill into RoI, from Wales into SE Ireland and from NI into the NW, midlands and east of the country.

Since DSO in Wales in 2009 yes, but does the flea powered pre DSO stuff from Divis and B Mtn really make it that far south at present ?

(Thanks for the corrections and clarifications BTW)

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by the cush

Lots of UK DTT overspill into RoI, from Wales into SE Ireland and from NI into the NW, midlands and east of the country.

Since the engineering test transmissions started in Aug 2008 anyone interested in receiving them and the future Saorview service has ensured the TV they purchased (prior to the availability of Saorview approved products) had an onboard MPEG-4 decoder be it a Freeview T1 or TNT-HD certified product. Lots of discussion on the Irish terrestrial boards over the last number of years about which TVs did and didn't have an MPEG-4 decoder.

Of course many of the UK stores here such as Currys, PC World and Argos have been off loading non-compatible MPEG-2 TVs up to recent times to unsuspecting customers who will require a STB post ASO in Oct.

My early 2008 Sony V4500 has worked without problem since the Saorview engineering test transmissions started from my local transmitter in Mar 2009.

Freeview T1 boxes/TVs never had MPEG-4 compatibility so they could never be used in Ireland
Only Freeview T2 boxes/TVs have this compatibility

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Any existing DTT equipped TVs prior to Saorview's launch in May 2011, will I suppose have been T1 UK models, but how many would there have been, bearing in mind that UK DTT hardly, if at all penetrated Eire.

UK DTT penetration has nothing to do with it - ALL TV's sold for a number of years have had DTT tuners fitted - no one made special TV's for Ireland with analogue only tuners.

So any remotely modern TV will have T1 tuners, even in Ireland.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

UK DTT penetration has nothing to do with it - ALL TV's sold for a number of years have had DTT tuners fitted - no one made special TV's for Ireland with analogue only tuners.

So any remotely modern TV will have T1 tuners, even in Ireland.

Yes, OK, fair play then

Seems almost to be history repeating itself.

50 years ago RTE launched on 405 lines, because despite 625 lines being the logical and available choice, there was already a base of 405 only sets in use receiving UK transmissions.

Mind you they switched off 405 ahead of the UK :-)

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Yes, OK, fair play then

Seems almost to be history repeating itself.

50 years ago RTE launched on 405 lines, because despite 625 lines being the logical and available choice, there was already a base of 405 only sets in use receiving UK transmissions.

I should think they did 50 years ago

625 wasn't the 'logical and available choice', 405 was - 625 hadn't even started in the UK 50 years ago, and it would have been a greatly more expensive option for everyone (broadcasters and viewers) if they had.

[mpk81]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Seems almost to be history repeating itself.

50 years ago RTE launched on 405 lines, because despite 625 lines being the logical and available choice, there was already a base of 405 only sets in use receiving UK transmissions.

Some wanted history to fully repeat it self, with Saorview launching a MPEG2 SD mux for all the older TVs which do not work with MPEG4 and using a DVB-T2 Simulcast for HD.

Luckily that sort of mess was avoided!

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

I should think they did 50 years ago

625 wasn't the 'logical and available choice', 405 was - 625 hadn't even started in the UK 50 years ago,.

No it hadn't, but every other country in Euorpe that launched TV in the 1950s used it.

It didn't just spring into existence in 1964 with BBC 2 !

Not a logical choice for RTE I agree, but more than available and more broadcast kit to choose from, so it would have been cheaper for RTE to implement. Instead they had to operate a dual format network (625 only in the South and West) and standards converters for the 405 Txs in the East and North ?

I'm sure RTE were 625 from the outset, and downconverted (optically) for 405 ?

[mpk81]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Not a logical choice for RTE I agree, but more than available and more broadcast kit to choose from, so it would have been cheaper for RTE to implement. Instead they had to operate a dual format network (625 only in the South and West) and standards converters for the 405 Txs in the east and north ?

It was 625 nationwide with 405 available in the Border and East areas.

TVs were very expensive, with BBC 1 and ITV still 405 only until the late 60s it was a necessary decision as people in border areas would still have been inclined to buy cheaper 405 only sets for BBC and ITV only, rather than fork out extra cash for a dual standard set of the few hours of RTE programming.

[Winston_1]

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

UK DTT penetration has nothing to do with it - ALL TV's sold for a number of years have had DTT tuners fitted - no one made special TV's for Ireland with analogue only tuners.

So any remotely modern TV will have T1 tuners, even in Ireland.

The point is retailers continued to sell UK spec sets, (often without VHF tuners on the analogue side) well after the Irish DTT spec had been decided.

Many of these retailers are now being forced to give refunds several years after the sale. It seems the EU 2 year guarantee and Irish SOGA are enforced more strongly than they are here.

[joshua_welby]

Why is Ireland not using DVB-T2 for their broadcasting along with the MPEG4 spec, why are they using a mish-mash spec (using one out of two HD specs)?

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

Why is Ireland not using DVB-T2 for their broadcasting along with the MPEG4 spec, why are they using a mish-mash spec (using one out of two HD specs)?

Errr, that's been perfectly explained in the posts in this thread over the last 24 hours

[AJRevitt]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Errr, that's been perfectly explained in the posts in this thread over the last 24 hours

I think he must be seriously taking the piss now.

[mgb77]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

Why is Ireland not using DVB-T2 for their broadcasting along with the MPEG4 spec, why are they using a mish-mash spec (using one out of two HD specs)?

Because dvb-t2 was not available in 2008. The main transmitters were in test mode for the psb channels since august 2008. The original plan for commercial muxes failed.

[the cush]

Originally Posted by joshua_welby

Freeview T1 boxes/TVs never had MPEG-4 compatibility so they could never be used in Ireland
Only Freeview T2 boxes/TVs have this compatibility

All the TVs in my house are pre-Saorview approved DVB-T models with on-board MPEG-4 decoders and MHEG-5 middleware (backwards compatible with Freeview).

A 2008 & 2009 Sony TV, a 2009 Samsung, a 2010 Philips plus others in other family members' homes. Not a T2 or Saorview approved model in sight, all working happily with MPEG-4 Saorview.

Since maybe 2007/2008 the big manufacturers started to include MPEG-4 video decoders in their DVB-T TVs for countries like France, Norway, Estonia etc. who use the DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard for some or all of their national DTT services. Some of these TVs would also have been Freeview approved. Just because Freeview don't use T1/MPEG-4 doesn't mean MPEG-4 decoding isn't there.

[joshua_welby]

Originally Posted by the cush

All the TVs in my house are pre-Saorview approved DVB-T models with on-board MPEG-4 decoders and MHEG-5 middleware (backwards compatible with Freeview).

A 2008 & 2009 Sony TV, a 2009 Samsung, a 2010 Philips plus others in other family members' homes. Not a T2 or Saorview approved model in sight, all working happily with MPEG-4 Saorview.

Since maybe 2007/2008 the big manufacturers started to include MPEG-4 video decoders in their DVB-T TVs for countries like France, Norway, Estonia etc. who use the DVB-T/MPEG-4 standard for some or all of their national DTT services. Some of these TVs would also have been Freeview approved. Just because Freeview don't use T1/MPEG-4 doesn't mean MPEG-4 decoding isn't there.

Where did you buy the TV?

Panasonic do UK only TV sets that is why there is B at the end of the Model Number, as the UK has to have specific specs
Panasonic TVs that are for sell outside of the UK do not have the B at the end of the Model Number

[MC57]

The only reason some bright spark came up with the idea of Saorview was to ensure that shops like DID could flog set top boxes and ariels to an unsuspecting public at inflated prices.

They even have the cheek to ask if you want free* TV after 24th October. I'm sure the country is regressing quickly back into the 19th century. I remember the days when RTV Rentals / Cablelink first started and everybody started ripping down their external ariels to get cable. Now they are sticking back up the ariels at a rate of knots !

*free seems to entail buying a set top box / ariel / new TV (delete as applicable).

[Nigel Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Winston_1

The point is retailers continued to sell UK spec sets, (often without VHF tuners on the analogue side) well after the Irish DTT spec had been decided.

Was there any legislation to stop them doing so?, and most TV's are pan-European and include a VHF tuner if you want one or not.

Many of these retailers are now being forced to give refunds several years after the sale. It seems the EU 2 year guarantee and Irish SOGA are enforced more strongly than they are here.

I can't comment on the Irish SOGA (or even if one exists?), but presumably the EU 2 year guarantee applies in Ireland whereas it doesn't in the UK.

Would these 'retailers' be Supermarkets rather than 'proper' retailers? - UK ones had special cheap sets made without DTT tuners long after manufacturers had been told that all sets must have DTT tuners.