[MarkLS12]

Is the Manchester Mux expected to relaunch before the 19th September retune?

[tomee]

Originally Posted by MarkLS12

Is the Manchester Mux expected to relaunch before the 19th September retune?

Its looking more & more unlikely by the day.

[a516]

One of the six slots for this multiplex was still available last week. Channels will launch in the 50s/60s, according to Canis Media, precluding any pre-19th September launch, as these channels until then belong to the HD section/general entertainment section.

[chrisy]

Originally Posted by a516

One of the six slots for this multiplex was still available last week. Channels will launch in the 50s/60s, according to Canis Media, precluding any pre-19th September launch, as these channels until then belong to the HD section/general entertainment section.

Also, I wouldn't have thought Canis, DMOL or the channels would be happy with launching only to change LCNs a week later. It will be pretty confusing to promote! Likewise launching after everybody has already retuned is a bad idea too. Ideally they will fire up the mux on the 19th with the channels on the correct LCNs, even if they are sans one channel.

[Greebo]

There's no sign here of anything actually being transmitted on C57 - however big news is that the NIT broadcast by both BBCA & BBCB (& assume the other mxes too) from Winter Hill has an entry again for the Manchester local mux as follows:

Transport_stream_ID: 29697 (0x7401)
Original_network_ID: 9018 (0x233a) [= UK Digital Terrestrial Television | Independent Television Commission]
reserved_1: 15 (0x0f)
Transport_descriptor_length: 51 (0x0033)

DVB-DescriptorTag: 65 (0x41) [= service_list_descriptor]
descriptor_length: 12 (0x0c)
service_ID: 29761 (0x7441)[ --> refers to PMT program_number]
service_type: 1 (0x01) [= digital television service]

service_ID: 29825 (0x7481)[ --> refers to PMT program_number]
service_type: 1 (0x01) [= digital television service]

service_ID: 29889 (0x74c1)[ --> refers to PMT program_number]
service_type: 1 (0x01) [= digital television service]

service_ID: 29953 (0x7501)[ --> refers to PMT program_number]
service_type: 1 (0x01) [= digital television service]


DVB-DescriptorTag: 90 (0x5a) [= terrestrial_delivery_system_descriptor]
descriptor_length: 11 (0x0b)
Center frequency: 0x048ab840 (= 762000.000 kHz)
Bandwidth: 0 (0x00) [= 8 MHz]
priority: 1 (0x01) [= HP (high priority) or Non-hierarch.]
Time_Slicing_indicator: 1 (0x01) [= Time Slicing is not used.)]
MPE-FEC_indicator: 1 (0x01) [= MPE-FEC is not used.)]
reserved_1: 3 (0x03)
Constellation: 1 (0x01) [= 16-QAM]
Hierarchy information: 0 (0x00) [= non-hierarchical (native interleaver)]
Code_rate_HP_stream: 2 (0x02) [= 3/4]
Code_rate_LP_stream: 0 (0x00) [= 1/2]
Guard_interval: 0 (0x00) [= 1/32]
Transmission_mode: 1 (0x01) [= 8k mode]
Other_frequency_flag: 0 (0x00)
reserved_2: 4294967295 (0xffffffff)

DVB-DescriptorTag: 95 (0x5f) [= private_data_specifier_descriptor]
descriptor_length: 4 (0x04)
PrivateDataSpecifier: 9018 (0x0000233a) [= Independent Television Commission<A0>]

DVB-DescriptorTag: 131 (0x83) [= User defined/ATSC reserved]
descriptor_length: 16 (0x10)
Descriptor-data:
0000: 75 01 ff 1b 74 81 ff 19 74 c1 ff 1a 74 41 ff 18 u...t...t...tA..

From the 0x83 hex data on the last line, I think the 4 channels are numbered 792, 793, 794, 795 which looks like a temporary allocation while things are still being set up. Anyone care to correct me or have more to add?

[AngusMast]

That would tie in with 790 and 791 appearing nationwide. See the changelog.

[Colin_London]

Independent Television Commission??!

Is someone having a laugh - the ITC is defunct!

[Greebo]

Originally Posted by AngusMast

That would tie in with 790 and 791 appearing nationwide. See the changelog.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'd seen the posts but had not taken in the details of the channel numbers- nice confirmation I did the maths right!

Originally Posted by Colin_London

Independent Television Commission??! Is someone having a laugh - the ITC is defunct!

I guess that when the UK DVB-T LCN system was created at the start of the OnDigital era they chose to use the ITC code to flag the private data, and that's the one we're still using.

[russellelly]

Might be of interest... From Twitter @CanisMedia

"we've got a brilliant deal on a #freeview slot in Manchester for 6 months - call Neil or James on 01494 878078"

[Greebo]

I just caught a brief burst of the Manchester mux being powered up. No channels - just stuffing similar to how it ran for a month before power down:
PID found: 8191 (0x1fff) [stuffing]

It has gone again before I could figure out mode or bandwidth. It could have been up for an hour as I was messing with the tvcard trying to figure out how to record an entire transport stream, so it wasn't checking the other muxes. Or it may have just been up for 5 minutes and I happened to catch it. Either way it is off again now.

[Greebo]

And now it is back up again - clearly something is going on.

Bandwidth of pid 8191....

packets read: 96/(182958) d_time: 0.008 s = 18048.000 kbit/s (Avrg: 18100.831 kbit/s) [bad: 0]

Edit: Dion box shows the mux as 8K 1/32 QAM-16 FEC3/4.

[Ray Cathode]

18Mbps is enough for 6 TV channels. Same as pre DSO national 16QAM muxes. Have they increased power or got a better antenna?

[Greebo]

I think this 18Mbps mode is the same as they were running for the months before they closed. I don't know about power or antenna changes. I don't have a record of the signal strength as reported my the dvb-t2 usb stick before they closed down so have nothing to compare with. I last walked up Winter Hill in early August and the pair of antenna were still there low down on the mast pointing towards the centre of Manchester.

[Colin_London]

I hope Neil & James at Canis are being open and honest with potential customers regarding the restricted coverage available given that configuration......

[Greebo]

The mux has been off air since about 3:45pm. Maybe when it comes back up we'll have some channels in place ready for tomorrow. Time will tell.

[Greebo]

It just came up-

PID found:    0 (0x0000)  [SECTION: Program Association Table (PAT)]
PID found:   16 (0x0010)  [SECTION: Network Information Table (NIT) - actual network]
PID found:   17 (0x0011)  [SECTION: Service Description Table (SDT) - other transport stream]
PID found:   18 (0x0012)  [SECTION: Event Information Table (EIT) - other transport stream, schedule]
PID found:   20 (0x0014)  [SECTION: Time Offset Table (TOT)]
PID found:  141 (0x008d)  [unknown]
PID found:  160 (0x00a0)  [unknown]
PID found:  181 (0x00b5)  [unknown]
PID found:  182 (0x00b6)  [unknown]
PID found:  222 (0x00de)  [unknown]
PID found:  249 (0x00f9)  [unknown]
PID found:  259 (0x0103)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found:  264 (0x0108)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found:  265 (0x0109)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found:  266 (0x010a)  [SECTION: Program Map Table (PMT)]
PID found: 2308 (0x0904)  [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 2309 (0x0905)  [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 2313 (0x0909)  [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 2314 (0x090a)  [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 2316 (0x090c)  [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 2317 (0x090d)  [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 2319 (0x090f)  [PS/PES: ITU-T Rec. H.262 | ISO/IEC 13818-2 or ISO/IEC 11172-2 video stream]
PID found: 2320 (0x0910)  [PS/PES: ISO/IEC 13818-3 or ISO/IEC 11172-3 audio stream]
PID found: 8191 (0x1fff)  [stuffing]

more to follow...

So channels currently broadcasting:

792 "Manchester1" - video is movies4men
793 "Manchester2" - video is movies4men+1
794 "Manchester3" - video is Sony SAB
795 "Manchester4" - video is ArgosTV

I think it's worth noting that we shouldn't automatically assume these are the final channels.

[Ray Cathode]

Originally Posted by Greebo

It just came up-
So channels currently broadcasting:

792 "Manchester1" - video is movies4men
793 "Manchester2" - video is movies4men+1
794 "Manchester3" - video is Sony SAB
795 "Manchester4" - video is ArgosTV

I think it's worth noting that we shouldn't automatically assume these are the final channels.

I would think it very likely that they are. You can't just test with anyone's channels! Good work though. Presumably they will get proper LCNs (56-59) at midday tomorrow.

[chrisy]

Originally Posted by Ray Cathode

I would think it very likely that they are. You can't just test with anyone's channels!

True, but Movies4Men(+1) was on the mux just before it closed down, so it could be the equipment is still tuned to those channels (AIUI it's a rebroadcast off-air DSat feed) and this went out live in error.

Otherwise it's an odd mix: Two channels that clearly wanted their Manchester Freeview coverage ended, Sony SAB (is there a large Hindi community in Manchester?) and a shopping channel which wants 24 hour coverage in Manchester on the same day it launches in the evenings nationally.

It may well be the correct line-up, but it seems wrong.

[Colin_London]

Originally Posted by chrisy

True, but Movies4Men(+1) was on the mux just before it closed down, so it could be the equipment is still tuned to those channels (AIUI it's a rebroadcast off-air DSat feed) and this went out live in error.

Otherwise it's an odd mix: Two channels that clearly wanted their Manchester Freeview coverage ended, Sony SAB (is there a large Hindi community in Manchester?) and a shopping channel which wants 24 hour coverage in Manchester on the same day it launches in the evenings nationally.

It may well be the correct line-up, but it seems wrong.

What do you mean that Movies4Men 'clearly wanted their Manchester Freeview coverage ended'!!

There is no evidence of that being the case. What happened is that GMG closed down Channel M and sold the licence and transmission facilities off including the additional capacity on the Mux. Moves4Men had no say in that process and there is every possibility that in fact they were very disappointed and keen to get back on air at the earliest opportunity.

And yes, although it's not London, there are sizeable ethnic communities in the Greater Manchester area.

[omnidirectional]

Movies4Men ended on DTT as soon as it was sold to Sony in January, a few months before the closure of Channel M (April). Sony must have now renegotiated the carriage and thrown in one of their Asian channels as a bonus.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...&postcount=178
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/...n-buys-dolphin

[horwich]

From Winter Hill (North West)

Argos tv now on Channel 55 (SHOWING NO SERVICE) & 59

Movies For Men now on Channel 56

Movies For Men +1 now on Channel 57

Sony SAB now on Channel 58

Poor quality pictures breaking up.

[Greebo]

LCNs have changed as follows by 11:29 this morning (at the same time as the national muxes had their changes):

56 movies4men
57 mov4men+1
58 SONY SAB
59 ARGOS TV 24/7

No sign of any EPG data yet. Not even now&next info on the channels.

[Greebo]

and some quick bandwidth figures:

2308 - 2510 kbit/s
2309 - 132 kbit/s

2313 - 2578 kbit/s
2314 - 136 kbit/s

2316 - 2503 kbit/s
2317 - 198 kbit/s (this is SONY SAB audio)

2319 - 2570 kbit/s
2320 - 136 kbit/s

8191 - 6520 kbit/s (room for a couple more channels here!)

[Greebo]

EPG on all 4 channels now populated with "Coming Soon" entries each of which is three hours long.

Also noted that the wide screen switching between 4:3 and 16:9 all seems to be working correctly - which didn't always happen during the previous incarnation of this mux.

[tomee]

Originally Posted by Greebo

EPG on all 4 channels now populated with "Coming Soon" entries each of which is three hours long.

When do you think the channels will come on air?